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Do we have CAP SPACE to re-sign Frolov and JJ?

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Old
07-06-2009, 04:00 PM
  #76
Brodie562
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
If he hasn't really done anything yet then how can you say he would be hard to replace?
uhh raa........

just wait till Frolov signs with the Wings and starts putting up 40 goal seasons. but even then im sure some of you will down play it and say its because of Zetterberg or Datsyuk.

BTW i wouldnt have given Kopitar that high of a raise, No one thats played on this team since ive been watching has deserved that much.

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07-06-2009, 04:04 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Brodie562 View Post
uhh raa........

just wait till Frolov signs with the Wings and starts putting up 40 goal seasons. but even then im sure some of you will down play it and say its because of Zetterberg or Datsyuk.

BTW i wouldnt have given Kopitar that high of a raise, No one thats played on this team since ive been watching has deserved that much.
Yea so let our #1 center go to RFA and lose him in order to keep an inconsistent 2nd liner like the Loaf.

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07-06-2009, 04:06 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Yea so let our #1 center go to RFA and lose him in order to keep an inconsistent 2nd liner like the Loaf.
that Loaf is the most consistent consitence of consistencing on this roster...

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07-06-2009, 04:06 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Yea so let our #1 center go to RFA and lose him in order to keep an inconsistent 2nd liner like the Loaf.
Why would we lose him if he went to RFA?

Plus I am still confident that Kopitar would have signed for less.....if not then Kopitar is just as greedy (if not moreso) than Cammalleri.

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07-06-2009, 04:08 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by sweatypickle View Post
that Loaf is the most consistent consitence of consistencing on this roster...
I don't see it.

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07-06-2009, 04:09 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
Why would we lose him if he went to RFA?

Plus I am still confident that Kopitar would have signed for less.....if not then Kopitar is just as greedy (if not moreso) than Cammalleri.
Teams would have lined up for Kopitar's services, don't kid yourself. It's much easier to replace an inconsistent 2nd line winger than a big, impact center with #1 potential.

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07-06-2009, 04:10 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Yea so let our #1 center go to RFA and lose him in order to keep an inconsistent 2nd liner like the Loaf.
who said any of that? i just wouldnt have given him 6.8! for his 2nd contract he should have been resigned to a cap hit between 4.5 to 5.5 working its way up. If he wouldn't have taken that then maybe it's him that should have been painted with the greed brush.

and please stop with the "Loaf" stuff

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07-06-2009, 04:11 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
I don't see it.
The guy is 14th all times in points as a Kings player and 13th all time in goals as a Kings player. He will more than likely be in the Kings top 10 in goals later this season.

Yeah he isn't worth the money.

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07-06-2009, 04:14 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
The guy is 14th all times in points as a Kings player and 13th all time in goals as a Kings player. He will more than likely be in the Kings top 10 in goals later this season.

Yeah he isn't worth the money.
He's not worth 6 million and he won't get it in LA, bank on it. Smyth, and Williams just shipped the Loaf out of town unless he finds the consistency DL and TM want.

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07-06-2009, 04:14 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Teams would have lined up for Kopitar's services, don't kid yourself. It's much easier to replace an inconsistent 2nd line winger than a big, impact center with #1 potential.
So you are saying that a team would have offered Kopitar $7 million or more and given the Kings four 1st round picks to get him????

I don't think so.

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07-06-2009, 04:16 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
He's not worth 6 million and he won't get it in LA, bank on it. Smyth, and Williams just shipped the Loaf out of town....
whether he deserves it or not he wouldn't of got it in LA regardless of Smyth and Williams...

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07-06-2009, 04:16 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
He's not worth 6 million and he won't get it in LA, bank on it. Smyth, and Williams just shipped the Loaf out of town unless he finds the consistency DL and TM want.
So basically what you are saying is YOU do not like him and YOU do not want to pay him.

As long as your name is not Dean Lombardi I think we are safe.

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07-06-2009, 04:24 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Zad View Post
I started the Kopitarian craziness and I take Frolov over Kopitar last season. I didn't even recognize the 11 from last season, compared to the season before. This coming season is his make it or break it time for him. I hope he is going to come in strong and in shape because he was worked along the boards, couldn't take a hit, and was knocked off the puck far too easy.
best case scenario is he does a jeff carter from last year when his contract kicks in.

worst case scenario is he does a __________(fill in the blank) from the year his ridiculous contract kicked in.

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07-06-2009, 04:25 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
So basically what you are saying is YOU do not like him and YOU do not want to pay him.

As long as your name is not Dean Lombardi I think we are safe.
I like Frolov fine but his absence won't make or break LA's future. I think LA fans highly overrate the guy. Good player but not a game breaker. Kopitar has that ability and hopefully he steps it up. Frolov's extension will be contingent on Williams health and Moller, Purcell, or one of the kids development. Same goes for Handzus the year after....

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07-06-2009, 04:35 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
I want Frolov to prove he's more than an inconsistent 2nd liner and so does DL. I don't see DL paying him anywhere close to Kopitar or Smyth's money.
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Yes! Thank god DL is in charge. Kopitar is far more important to LA than the Loaf.
Your lack of hockey acumen is showing.

Frolov is a 5 to 5.5MM (maybe even 6MM) player on the UFA market and is vital to this team's scoring needs. NO ONE on this team has his puck possession skills. For you to call him a LOAF is a joke.

Cap'n Ron hit the nail on the head 5MM for 5 years. if you think thats off base, put up a poll and see what you get. My guess is that over 60% of the people will say he's worth 5MM and that the Kings should pay him that much. He's already got A KINGS TATOO ON HIS ASS IF ANYONE DOES!

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07-06-2009, 04:38 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
Your lack of hockey acumen is showing.

Frolov is a 5 to 5.5MM (maybe even 6MM) player on the UFA market and is vital to this team's scoring needs. NO ONE on this team has his puck possession skills. For you to call him a LOAF is a joke.

Cap'n Ron hit the nail on the head 5MM for 5 years. if you think thats off base, put up a poll and see what you get. My guess is that over 60% of the people will say he's worth 5MM and that the Kings should pay him that much. He's already got A KINGS TATOO ON HIS ASS IF ANYONE DOES!
Yea, no clue about the game because I don't feel Frolov's worth 6 mill, gotcha. 5 mill isn't drastic overpayment for a 2nd liner but I do see him LOAF quite a bit, ask DL or TM. I'd be happy keeping Frolov for around 4-5 million but I still don't feel DL will pay him that. If Williams has a good, healthy season and Moller tears it up in Manchester, bye bye Frolov, especially with the cap going down.


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07-06-2009, 05:23 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
He's not worth 6 million and he won't get it in LA, bank on it. Smyth, and Williams just shipped the Loaf out of town unless he finds the consistency DL and TM want.
Williams?

This guy has only had two productive seasons in his entire NHL career, and that was playing on a high scoring team in a soft Eastern Conference.

If we can't afford both players, I'd much rather keep Frolov than Williams.

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07-06-2009, 07:04 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Yea, no clue about the game because I don't feel Frolov's worth 6 mill, gotcha. 5 mill isn't drastic overpayment for a 2nd liner but I do see him LOAF quite a bit, ask DL or TM. I'd be happy keeping Frolov for around 4-5 million but I still don't feel DL will pay him that. If Williams has a good, healthy season and Moller tears it up in Manchester, bye bye Frolov, especially with the cap going down.
This is going to sound far more aggressive than I want it to ... but you have no clue about the game not because you don't think Frolov is worth six million but because you have poor grasp of what Frolov does in comparison to the rest of the league.

To call Frolov a second line LW is nonsense. There were a total of 10 LW in the entire NHL who scored more goals than Frolov last season. Think about that for a second. Your loafer, who I admit was benched at times, was only outscored by ten people in the entire league. Which means he would only be a second line player on 9 teams in the entire league. (Washington has Semin and Ovechkin which would make Frolov a ridiculous third liner)

Now lets look at what comparable players are paid. The two LWs above Frolov in goals are Semin and Gagne. Semin is making 5 million BEFORE hitting RFA status. Gagne is making 5.25 million. The two LWs underneath him in goals are D. Sedin and Elias. They make 6.1 million and 6 million respectively. That comes to an average of 5.5875 million.

But perhaps I'm looking only at goals ... let's step back a bit. If you look at total points Frolov was outscored by only 19 guys in the entire league. This means that on only fourteen teams in the league would Frolov be a second liner. (ATL, NJD, PHI, TOR, & WSH all had two guys) More than HALF of the teams in the league would love your so called second liner as their first line LW.

Now lets look at comparable players who score as many points as Frolov and what they get paid. The two LWs above Frolov in points are Hartnell & David Booth. Both Hartnell and Booth make 4.2 million in quite cap friendly deals. The two LWs below Frolov in points are Smyth(!) and Michalek. Smyth makes 6.5 million and while Michalek makes only 3.5 next season each year his salary escalates until it ultimately reaches six million. This averages the four salaries to 4.6 million.

Put the point salaries and goal salaries together and you get right around 5.1 million. This means that your suggestion that Frolov would be slightly overpaid at 5 million as a farce while numbers approaching six million would be an overpayment.

And all of that aside the biggest argument in favor of Frolov getting at LEAST five million is that he was playing with second and third liners for the majority of the season. The reason his point total was so low was that he had NOBODY to pass to. His assist numbers were pre-lockout-esque. Now that the Kings have some depth we should see some increased production from Frolov which would likely make him underpaid at five million.

Please stop your anti-Frolov rhetoric because it just isn't based on facts.

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07-06-2009, 07:11 PM
  #94
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This is going to sound far more aggressive than I want it to ... but you have no clue about the game not because you don't think Frolov is worth six million but because you have poor grasp of what Frolov does in comparison to the rest of the league.

To call Frolov a second line LW is nonsense. There were a total of 10 LW in the entire NHL who scored more goals than Frolov last season. Think about that for a second. Your loafer, who I admit was benched at times, was only outscored by ten people in the entire league. Which means he would only be a second line player on 9 teams in the entire league. (Washington has Semin and Ovechkin which would make Frolov a ridiculous third liner)

Now lets look at what comparable players are paid. The two LWs above Frolov in goals are Semin and Gagne. Semin is making 5 million BEFORE hitting RFA status. Gagne is making 5.25 million. The two LWs underneath him in goals are D. Sedin and Elias. They make 6.1 million and 6 million respectively. That comes to an average of 5.5875 million.

But perhaps I'm looking only at goals ... let's step back a bit. If you look at total points Frolov was outscored by only 19 guys in the entire league. This means that on only fourteen teams in the league would Frolov be a second liner. (ATL, NJD, PHI, TOR, & WSH all had two guys) More than HALF of the teams in the league would love your so called second liner as their first line LW.

Now lets look at comparable players who score as many points as Frolov and what they get paid. The two LWs above Frolov in points are Hartnell & David Booth. Both Hartnell and Booth make 4.2 million in quite cap friendly deals. The two LWs below Frolov in points are Smyth(!) and Michalek. Smyth makes 6.5 million and while Michalek makes only 3.5 next season each year his salary escalates until it ultimately reaches six million. This averages the four salaries to 4.6 million.

Put the point salaries and goal salaries together and you get right around 5.1 million. This means that your suggestion that Frolov would be slightly overpaid at 5 million as a farce while numbers approaching six million would be an overpayment.

And all of that aside the biggest argument in favor of Frolov getting at LEAST five million is that he was playing with second and third liners for the majority of the season. The reason his point total was so low was that he had NOBODY to pass to. His assist numbers were pre-lockout-esque. Now that the Kings have some depth we should see some increased production from Frolov which would likely make him underpaid at five million.

Please stop your anti-Frolov rhetoric because it just isn't based on facts.
LW isn't a deep or important position so your logic has flaws. I'd be more than happy re-signing Frolov and using Schenn as the 2nd line center after trading Handzus. I just don't see how the Loaf fits into DL's plans or LA's cap after this season. Hopefully he finds some consistency to his game and doesn't ride the pine as often this season....

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07-06-2009, 07:18 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
LW isn't a deep or important position so your logic has flaws. I'd be more than happy re-signing Frolov and using Schenn as the 2nd line center after trading Handzus. I just don't see how the Loaf fits into DL's plans or LA's cap after this season. Hopefully he finds some consistency to his game and doesn't ride the pine as often this season....
LW might not be a "deep or important position" but that still does not acknowledge that Frolov would be a 1st line winger on many NHL teams. So the whole 2nd line winger statement you keep using is not correct. In fact a couple of seasons ago when Frolov played much of the time on the 1st line he scored 35 goals and 71 points.....those are 1st line winger results in my book.

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07-06-2009, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
LW isn't a deep or important position so your logic has flaws. I'd be more than happy re-signing Frolov and using Schenn as the 2nd line center after trading Handzus. I just don't see how the Loaf fits into DL's plans or LA's cap after this season. Hopefully he finds some consistency to his game and doesn't ride the pine as often this season....
You say my logic has flaws. Where? I did nothing but provide you with information on what comparable LWs make. And the information (not my logic) indicates Frolov is worth more than you are suggesting.

What do you mean that LW isn't a "deep or important position?" That in general LW is shallow throughout the league? If that's the case that should mean assets on the left side are even more important. And as far as not being an important position in the league I would say Mr. Ovechkin would like to have a word with you.

As far as things not fitting in it is quite unlikely that the nearly 3.9 million worth bonus money gets obtained. The VAST majority of that is on Doughty's contract and they are numbers that are just flat out unobtainable for young defenseman. (ie Hart Trophy, Norris Trophy, top ten in league in scoring, top ten in position in scoring etc...) That means if the cap goes down to 54 million the Kings actually have nearly six million to work with (after Cloutier's buyout is gone) to give Frolov a 3 million raise, Johnson a million dollar raise, and sign Quick and Drewiske.

I hope Frolov plays better too. We all do. But to suggest that Frolov would be overpaid at five million is just outside the realm of logic.

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07-06-2009, 07:36 PM
  #97
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You say my logic has flaws. Where? I did nothing but provide you with information on what comparable LWs make. And the information (not my logic) indicates Frolov is worth more than you are suggesting.

What do you mean that LW isn't a "deep or important position?" That in general LW is shallow throughout the league? If that's the case that should mean assets on the left side are even more important. And as far as not being an important position in the league I would say Mr. Ovechkin would like to have a word with you.

As far as things not fitting in it is quite unlikely that the nearly 3.9 million worth bonus money gets obtained. The VAST majority of that is on Doughty's contract and they are numbers that are just flat out unobtainable for young defenseman. (ie Hart Trophy, Norris Trophy, top ten in league in scoring, top ten in position in scoring etc...) That means if the cap goes down to 54 million the Kings actually have nearly six million to work with (after Cloutier's buyout is gone) to give Frolov a 3 million raise, Johnson a million dollar raise, and sign Quick and Drewiske.

I hope Frolov plays better too. We all do. But to suggest that Frolov would be overpaid at five million is just outside the realm of logic.
LW isn't a deep position and no I don't feel wingers are that important. I hope we keep the Loaf but not if he's seeking Simon Gagne money.

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07-06-2009, 07:38 PM
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Considering what Gionta and Kovalev signed for, I fear that Frolov's agent will be seeking the same type of contract. Hopefully, like he did in his last contract agreement, Frolov is willing to give the team a hometown discount and sign an extension 6 years in term at $27M.

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07-06-2009, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
LW isn't a deep position and no I don't feel wingers are that important. I hope we keep the Loaf but not if he's seeking Simon Gagne money.
If wingers are not that important I guess you would not be happy to sign Kovalchuk next year.

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07-06-2009, 07:50 PM
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If wingers are not that important I guess you would not be happy to sign Kovalchuk next year.
I wouldn't because he would cost too much coin. I'd much rather have a top notch center like Vinny.

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