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Victoria Salmon Kings ECHL

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Old
07-11-2004, 02:30 PM
  #26
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They need to work something out....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
That will never happen as long as CHL teams keep paying their players. The CHL is technically a semi-pro league under NCAA regulations, and they only give scholarships to amateur players.
I know, but when you consider that players only get like $100 per week, there has to be some way that the CHL can allow these kids, who are away from their homes and families to have some pocket money for some entertainment.

Maybe an agreement can be made so that instead of paying the players $100 bucks, the CHL provides things like movie tickets, coupons for DVD rentals, etc. The kind of stuff 16-20 year olds do with their $100 bucks.

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07-11-2004, 10:09 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Hawk
I know, but when you consider that players only get like $100 per week, there has to be some way that the CHL can allow these kids, who are away from their homes and families to have some pocket money for some entertainment.

Maybe an agreement can be made so that instead of paying the players $100 bucks, the CHL provides things like movie tickets, coupons for DVD rentals, etc. The kind of stuff 16-20 year olds do with their $100 bucks.
Rookies get around $100/month. The most veteran players get paid about as much as a regular part-time, minimum wage job pays.

Having had family members billet Major Junior players before, I can tell you that things like movie tickets, DVD rentals, etc are not what most 16-20 year-old elite hockey players do with $100+ to occupy their free time.

Honestly, most of these players have parents who fuel their bank accounts with unlimited funds. (From what I have seen with the players my family members have billeted.) If their funds from the team aren't enough, they will have no problem getting money for whatever they want/need.

The WHL also has a good education program. For every year played in the league, the WHL pays for one year tuition and books at a Canadian post-secondary institution (I would think the OHL and QMJHL have something similar, if not the same). If your hockey career doesn't take off after a Major Junior career, the league will set you up with a good education. Some say that is more of a guarantee than going to the NCAA.

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07-14-2004, 12:08 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToNedOuT
The only complaint I have about the team is about the name and logo. I don't know one person who will rock a Salmon King jersey. It's a cartoon fish with a crown, ANYTHING else would have been better. But regardless of the logo I'll go watch the games. I know quite a few people that have purchased club seats and season tickets. Should be quite entertaining.
Funny, almost everyone I've talked to, including those on other forums, like the Salmon Kings jersey. At any rate, most ECHL teams have "cartoonish" images in their logos.

Doing a fast lookthrough, I'd say that every team but the Dayton Bombers, Johnstown Chiefs, Wheeling Nailers, Toledo Storm, Greensboro Generals, and Roanoke Express use that sort of imagery.

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07-15-2004, 02:42 PM
  #29
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Most people I know from Victoria HATE the name and logo, but say that it won't stop them from going to games.

The Save-On Foods Centre also isn't helping anything.

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07-16-2004, 12:56 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountie
The Save-On Foods Centre also isn't helping anything.
Well they certainly won't be the only ECHL team with a grocery store chain with naming rights to their arena - the Grrowl play in the Bi-Lo Center, and the Falcons are in the Save Mart Center. Don't know about the Falcons, but the fans in Greenville don't seem to have a problem with the name...

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07-16-2004, 04:04 PM
  #31
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I'm in Victoria, and when the team name and logo were released, I honestly didn't hear one good thing about them. I GUESS I can live with Salmon Kings, but good god, the logo is so freakin cheesy. The colours, the font, the cartoon fish wearing a crown.........brutal. It's just a huge step down from the classic "Cougars" name and logo back when we had the Dub in town.

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07-17-2004, 07:53 AM
  #32
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I seriously hope the Steelies have a few games up in Victoria. I've only been once (and I was pretty young then) and i'd love to see Victoria again if I can, especially to watch a game up there.

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08-10-2004, 01:56 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
The WHL now has perfect alignment, and the league has no plans to expand anytime soon. The only hope for any non-WHL city to get a team, is relocation of another team. Relocation is possible with teams like Prince Albert, Moose Jaw and Swift Current, but they will consider markets in the WHL's Eastern Conference (Edmonton, Winnipeg, or maybe a city in Idaho, Montana or North Dakota) before coming west. The WHL doesn't want to have to move Kootenay back to the Central Division.
I think we talked about this in another forum, but moving the Ice to Victoria would make the "perfect alignment" even more so. No more of that Kootenay playing central teams in the BC division garbage.

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08-10-2004, 12:00 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfmade
I seriously hope the Steelies have a few games up in Victoria. I've only been once (and I was pretty young then) and i'd love to see Victoria again if I can, especially to watch a game up there.
golfmade - circle March 9-12 on your calendar then. The Steelheads will play the Salmon Kings on the 9th, 11th, and 12th.

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08-22-2004, 04:25 AM
  #35
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Well it looks as if our arena won't be built on time , and there is news that we won't be allowed to play in the arena up town because a Junior league team plays in there and they have the rights to Arena, so i'm not even sure if we'll even see a Salmon King game in Victoria in 2004.

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08-22-2004, 03:46 PM
  #36
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I'm sure you'll at least get a few game toward the end of the season, or is it really that bad? That would suck.

People in Victoria need to be more open to things. It seems that from what people are saying, they don't want to give the ECHL a chance. In Atlantic City, our team might be gone next year, so if I was in Victoria, I'd feel lucky, because at least you have a team, regardless of the league.

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08-22-2004, 07:58 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniMe7219
People in Victoria need to be more open to things. It seems that from what people are saying, they don't want to give the ECHL a chance. In Atlantic City, our team might be gone next year, so if I was in Victoria, I'd feel lucky, because at least you have a team, regardless of the league.
Why would they want to give the ECHL a chance when they were robbed of a WHL team by the world's cheapest owner? Hell, people would rather watch Victoria's BCHL team, and that's Jr.A hockey.

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08-22-2004, 08:52 PM
  #38
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Why aren't they giving the ECHL a chance? I bet more then half of the people in Victoria have never seen an ECHL game. And who's to say WHL is better hockey then ECHL? People need to be more open is all I'm saying.

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08-22-2004, 09:10 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniMe7219
Why aren't they giving the ECHL a chance? I bet more then half of the people in Victoria have never seen an ECHL game. And who's to say WHL is better hockey then ECHL? People need to be more open is all I'm saying.
They have no reason to be open. They know what they want...the WHL.

And I will say that WHL hockey is better than the ECHL. Some players who are cut from WHL teams get jobs in the ECHL. For example...2 seasons ago, the Prince George Cougars cut Devin Wilson. No other WHL teams wanted him, but he got on with the Anchorage Aces as a 19 year-old WHL reject after playing a few weeks in the Prince George beer leagues. Last season, he left the ECHL for a chance to play as a 20 year-old with Everett, a WHL expansion team.

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08-22-2004, 09:31 PM
  #40
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You can't judge the skill level of an entire league 2 players. For years, the Aces were at the bottom of the WCHL, so, that's not really a good comparison. Look at a team like... well, my team, Atlantic City. 2003 Kelly Cup Championship and the majority of the team (with the exception of a few vets) were all called up to the AHL. Two from that team made it into the NHL.


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08-22-2004, 10:03 PM
  #41
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Well, as it stands now, we won't be seeing an ECHL game for awhile.
I am all for the Salsa/Bear Mountain for not allowing the Salmon Kings to play in the arena (did they really say no?)...hell they had to endure Archie Browning and JDF while being bounced between Memorial and finally waiting for Bear Mountain. Why should they (and the JDF minor hockey) lose out on ice slots because the stupid Save on Foods Centre isn't finished on time (like I'm sure we all predicted AGES ago). I'm aware I don't sound that enthused, but do I really have any reason to be? Maybe the Salmon Kings can play at Archie Browning?

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08-22-2004, 11:21 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniMe7219
You can't judge the skill level of an entire league 2 players. For years, the Aces were at the bottom of the WCHL, so, that's not really a good comparison. Look at a team like... well, my team, Atlantic City. 2003 Kelly Cup Championship and the majority of the team (with the exception of a few vets) were all called up to the AHL. Two from that team made it into the NHL.
I wasn't using 2 players to judge the skill level of an entire league. I used one player (Devin Wilson) as an example of a situation that happens numerous times every season...a 19-20 year-old player gets cut from a Junior team and makes an ECHL team that same season.

A lot of CHL (WHL, OHL, QMJHL) teams can claim that two players from any given roster made the NHL. The 1996/97 Prince George Cougars (Former Victoria Cougars - WHL) featured the following...

Zdeno Chara - Ottawa
Eric Brewer - Edmonton
Ronald Petrovicky - Atlanta
Joel Kwiatkowski - Washington
Blair Betts - New York Rangers
Tyler Bouck - Vancouver
Chris Mason - Nashville


And I wasn't using 2 players to judge the skill level of an entire league. I used one player (Devin Wilson) as an example of a situation that happens numerous times every season...a 19-20 year-old player gets cut from a Junior team and makes an ECHL team that same season.

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08-23-2004, 01:18 AM
  #43
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http://www.echl.com/alumni/

That's not up-to-date. Quite a few guys have been signed this offseason by NHL teams.

Quote:
a 19-20 year-old player gets cut from a Junior team and makes an ECHL team that same season.
Yes, but the example you gave was of a mediocre at best team in the WCHL at the time, not the ECHL. The ECHL has only been in the west since the start of last winter.

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08-23-2004, 03:09 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniMe7219
Yes, but the example you gave was of a mediocre at best team in the WCHL at the time, not the ECHL. The ECHL has only been in the west since the start of last winter.
It is still the same calibre of hockey, hence the merge of the two leagues.

Just because my one example didn't include a top team doesn't mean junior cuts can't get jobs elsewhere in the league.

Want another example?

Jeremy Chadsey. He played his entire junior career with the Quesnel Millionaires, a consistant basement team in the BCHL (Jr.A...one step below the WHL). He scored 41 points in 57 games in his final year with Quesnel. Not even an NCAA Division III school wanted him....but the ECHL was there to break his fall. Sure, he ended up playing for teams in the Central and United leagues too last season, but an ECHL team (Texas) took a guy who was a 2nd-3rd line Jr.A player as a 20 year-old, and got him started in Tier 3 pro hockey in the USA. Chadsey will never get a sniff of an NHL contract.

Why would Victoria want to watch third-tier pro hockey instead of first-tier junior hockey?

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08-23-2004, 11:00 AM
  #45
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OK. This is the point where I step in and point out that Van is absolutely clueless. Read the article Holly put up on the increasing number of former ECHLers making it to the NHL. Watch a Kelly Cup game. They are rebroadcast from time to time, after all. Of course the ECHL isn't going to be NHL caliber, but it's very good as what it is - a AA level minor league. At the AA level, talent is STILL BEING DEVELOPED. So your two examples didn't do great in the WHL. Big whoop. I know of people who didn't too great playing high school sports who then turn into collegiate stand-outs. There's entirely too much going on in the background in athletics for one to dismiss a player because they didn't stand out on a single team. So yeah, they went to the ECHL. But which teams took them? Chadsey went to the Wildcatters, who tend to have trouble getting players in that they aren't affiliated with an NHL team and they're one of the newer teams in the league. Just as in the NHL, some teams take what they can get. That's hardly an indictment of the league.

I realize that most Canadians like to think of themselves as hockey studs, but the view you have of the league is one that's rapidly becoming outdated. Increasingly, NHL teams are putting prospects in the ECHL before moving them up to the AHL to see how they adjust to pro hockey. Meanwhile, the ECHL is tightening its rules so that number of career minor leaguers are limited. Lastly, for every Chadsey you mention, there's another Ruslan Fedotenko out there. The ECHL vs. the WHL? Men vs. boys. I guarantee the ECHL is faster and harder hitting. Like I said, actually give the product a chance before you mouth off on something you've yet to experience.

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08-23-2004, 11:47 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garnetpalmetto
The ECHL vs. the WHL? Men vs. boys. I guarantee the ECHL is faster and harder hitting. Like I said, actually give the product a chance before you mouth off on something you've yet to experience.
You guarantee? How many years have you been watching the WHL?

I've watched some ECHL hockey on the NHL Network, and I gotta be honest. Canadian Major Junior is much more entertaining. I would rather watch future stars like Gilbert Brule, Sidney Crosby, etc over the ECHL anyday of the week.

In 1996, I attended the WHL all-star game....Jarome Iginla, Richard Zednik (was injured for the game), Sheldon Souray, Daymond Langkow, Chris Phillips, Wade Redden, Mike Leclerc, Curtis Brown, Peter Schaefer....all playing in the NHL at better than 3rd line calibre. Not to mention others over the years like Eric Brewer, Marian Hossa, Zdeno Chara, Shane Doan, Ryan Smyth, and many, many more.

Take a look at players at the upcoming World Cup...the following played in the CHL (WHL, OHL, LHJMQ):

Canada (24)
Brodeur - St.Hyacinthe - LHJMQ
Luongo - Val-d'Or, Acadie Bathurst - LHJMQ
Théodore - St.Jean, Hull - LHJMQ
Bouwmeester - Medicine Hat - WHL
Brewer - Prince George - WHL
Foote - Sault Ste. Marie - OHL
Hannan - Kelowna - WHL
Jovanovski - Windsor - OHL
Niedermayer - Kamloops - WHL
Redden - Brandon - WHL
Regehr - Kamloops - WHL
Doan - Kamloops - WHL
Draper - Ottawa - OHL
Gagné - Beauport, Québec - LHJMQ
Iginla - Kamloops - WHL
Lecavalier - Rimouski - LHJMQ
Lemieux - Laval - LHJMQ
Maltby - Owen Sound - OHL
Marleau - Seattle - WHL
Morrow - Portland - WHL
Richards - Rimouski - LHJMQ
Sakic - Swift Current - WHL
Smyth - Moose Jaw - WHL
Thornton - Sault Ste. Marie - OHL

The only Canadian players who didn't come out of the CHL are Dany Heatley (University of Wisconsin) and Martin St.Louis (University of Vermont).


USA (7)
Esche - Detroit/Plymouth - OHL
Hatcher - North Bay - OHL
Schneider - Cornwall - OHL
Gomez - Tri City - WHL
Konowalchuk - Portland - WHL
Langenbrunner - Peterborough - OHL
Modano - Prince Albert - WHL

The rest of Team USA took the NCAA route, occasionally leading through Canadian Jr.A hockey, such as the BCHL, where Brett Hull played in Penticton before moving onto US College.


Russia (2)
Tverdovsky - Brandon - WHL
V.Bure - Spokane - WHL

Slovakia (11)
Budaj - St.Mikes - OHL
Stana - Moose Jaw, Calgary - WHL
Bartecko - Chicoutimi, Drummondville - LHJMQ
Mezei - Belleville - OHL
Obsut - Swift Current, Edmonton/Kootenay, Medicine Hat - WHL
Suchy - Sherbrooke, Chicoutimi - LHJMQ
Chara - Prince George - WHL
Hossa - Portland - WHL
Nagy - Halifax - LHJMQ
Radivojevic - Belleville - OHL
Zednik - Portland - WHL

Czech Republic (2)
Kubina - Moose Jaw - WHL
Vasicek - Sault Ste. Marie - OHL

Finland
None

Germany (3)
Kolzig - New Westminster, Tri City - WHL
Leask - Toronto, Hamilton, Guelph, Oshawa - OHL
Benda - Oshawa - OHL

Sweden
None


Players with ECHL experience (8)
Vokoun (CZE)
Obsut (SVK)
Lasak (SVK)
Khavanov (RUS)
Laaksonen (FIN)
Kolzig (DEU)
Leask (DEU)
Benda (DEU)

The CHL outscores the ECHL 49-8. Before you point out that the CHL is 3 leagues, here are the numbers broken down...

WHL - 24
OHL - 15
LHJMQ - 10

All three individual leagues have more representation at the World Cup, and the WHL alone has three times the ECHL's representation at the World Cup....and 4 of those with ECHL experience are not currently in the NHL.

So anybody asking themselves why people in Victoria would rather watch the WHL than the ECHL needs to take a look at how many great hockey players come out of the WHL compared to the ECHL.


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Old
08-24-2004, 12:09 AM
  #47
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Quote:
So anybody asking themselves why people in Victoria would rather watch the WHL than the ECHL needs to take a look at how many great hockey players come out of the WHL compared to the ECHL.
And also consider which has been around longer. Of course "more great hockey players" will come out of a league that's 36 years old as opposed to 16 years old. Especially when, to be honest, the ECHL has only recently gotten serious about changing its image.

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08-24-2004, 12:55 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garnetpalmetto
And also consider which has been around longer. Of course "more great hockey players" will come out of a league that's 36 years old as opposed to 16 years old. Especially when, to be honest, the ECHL has only recently gotten serious about changing its image.
As long as the ECHL stays a third-tier pro league, it will never produce near the amount of top NHL players as Canadian Major Junior and the NCAA.

Watching Major Junior hockey is all about seeing the top prospects develop and get drafted. That is something the ECHL cannot and never will provide.

Look at Winnipeg. The people there want to get rid of the AHL in favour of the WHL.

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08-24-2004, 01:00 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
As long as the ECHL stays a third-tier pro league, it will never produce near the amount of top NHL players as Canadian Major Junior and the NCAA.

Watching Major Junior hockey is all about seeing the top prospects develop and get drafted. That is something the ECHL cannot and never will provide.

Look at Winnipeg. The people there want to get rid of the AHL in favour of the WHL.
I think you're failing to understand the entire purpose of a minor league pro team. They don't produce the talent like the WHL or the NCAA does. They take that talent and then refine it. A good many of your WHLers going into the NHL are, increasingly, stopping off in the ECHL first.

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08-24-2004, 02:07 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garnetpalmetto
I think you're failing to understand the entire purpose of a minor league pro team. They don't produce the talent like the WHL or the NCAA does. They take that talent and then refine it. A good many of your WHLers going into the NHL are, increasingly, stopping off in the ECHL first.
The WHLers going to the ECHL are those who were not good enough to sign on with an NHL club after their junior career was over. It is a rare case that such a player gets to the NHL through that route...and they don't become the great players that everybody wants to pay to see.

The whole point Victoria is trying to make, is that they don't want to see chances taken on "refining talent". They want to see the exciting young prospects who will go on to be NHL stars.

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