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Old
07-28-2009, 10:11 PM
  #51
axecrew
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Sorry, but am I missing the joke regarding LeNeveu?

Either way, he's still an unsigned UFA (which honestly surprises me quite a bit).
Pelts.....The joke is......as of now Atlanta has the following goaltenders under contract for 09-10:
Lehtonen
Hedberg
Pavelec
MacIntyre
Mannino

That's 5 for essentially 4 spots....the joke is add LeNeveu and it'll add even more questions to who's where in October.
As for my joke about David's nephew...it's just a play on his name David LeNeveu=David's Nephew

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07-29-2009, 11:57 AM
  #52
pelts35.com
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Originally Posted by axecrew View Post
Pelts.....The joke is......as of now Atlanta has the following goaltenders under contract for 09-10:
Lehtonen
Hedberg
Pavelec
MacIntyre
Mannino

That's 5 for essentially 4 spots....the joke is add LeNeveu and it'll add even more questions to who's where in October.
As for my joke about David's nephew...it's just a play on his name David LeNeveu=David's Nephew
Gotcha.

Either way I'm still surprised that LeNeveu hasn't been signed by anyone. Frankly I think he's better than both MacIntyre and Mannino.

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07-29-2009, 12:31 PM
  #53
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I think with all of the "available" goaltenders out there, teams are holding back on signing any of them at the moment.
Kinda waiting for the first domino to fall, then the others will fall after and see where they slot themselves as far as money goes.
I thought Biron would start it, but guess not.

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07-29-2009, 12:51 PM
  #54
Tony Piscotta
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Originally Posted by Captain Esoteric View Post
Okie dokey then. Here are some more questions to ponder:

1) If the L-Devils move to Trenton, will attendance go back to respectable levels (I mean, even if they can maintain an average in the 4000 range)?

2) Would Trenton joining the AHL be the gateway for Reading joining up as well?

3) If so, what would be the fate of the ECHL in the East?

4) Lastly, would Atlantic City work again as an ECHL city?
1 - Would hope that would be the case but Trenton/NJ Devils would have to drastically increase their marketing efforts. Something it seems that's not that big of a priority. The reason the Titans drew so well early on was they had some great young executives who really came up with some creative ways to sell the team. Instead of building on this, Titans' management figured they could slash costs figuring they had already established their "product". The Devils as an organization have almost been antagonistic towards marketing the team at the expense of the NHL season ticket holders and the City of Trenton could care less whether the team makes it or not.

2 - Wouldn't see Reading making the move to the AHL unless the survival of the ECHL was an issue. Reading, unlike Trenton, is an established franchise with a strong fan base and loyal faithful who specifically follow that team. Also, with the Flyers planning to eventually move their franchise to the Lehigh Valley and Scranton/WB established as well, I'm not sure there is the market for a 3rd AHL team.

3 - Still see the ECHL with a place in the East - albeit in more of the smaller, "AHL" of 1980s and 1990s-type markets (Adirondack, Hershey, Binghamton etc). It seems like the AHL has become more of a continental league in medium to larger markets. Whether this will work financially in the long run remains to be seen.

4 - Atlantic City is a very tough place for sports franchises to make a go of it. For the most part, the visitors in the city are there merely for the gambling or the shows. As someone above said, even with a strong team on the ice and the built-in rivalry with Trenton as well as a loose connection with the Flyers via their "Bullies" image, the ECHL team played largely to empty arenas while minor league baseball drew even worse.

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Old
07-29-2009, 01:00 PM
  #55
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Big jump to make that NJ wants to sell. Why not move the E to AC and the A to Trenton? Too many holes in what you post for it to be feasible.
Don't see that as much of a possibility and would take Atlantic City out of the mix - for reasons mentioned in a previous post. What might seem more feasible, although the Flyers didn't have much success with having the Phantoms playing across the street, is the AHL franchise moving to the Meadowlands. I could also see the ECHL franchise being shifted to South Mountain arena (the Devils old practice facility) which would seem more suited to ECHL-type attendance and be more centrally located to the Devils' fan base.

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07-29-2009, 02:04 PM
  #56
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Going along Tony's post, there is a big revitalization plan in Bellmawr, NJ which includes an arena (originally to be designed like the Spectrum). Perhaps that is a potential home for the Devils (ECHL or AHL team).

BTW, Tony, in your statement about whether there is a market for a 3rd AHL team, don't forget about Hershey. Adding Reading and Lehigh Valley into the mix would be 4.

Thanks for the reminder about what happened with the Titans. I remember that they drew well and that after a couple of seasons there was a big fan rebellion, but I couldn't recall what it was about. I know they really hated one coach (can't remember which one).

As for AC, you are spot on. It's pretty difficult to field a team when the majority of the people that work there don't live in the nearby vicinity.

OT, I heard that the Surf's ballpark was great and I regret not getting to a game there.

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Old
07-30-2009, 02:36 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyVP View Post
Don't see that as much of a possibility and would take Atlantic City out of the mix - for reasons mentioned in a previous post. What might seem more feasible, although the Flyers didn't have much success with having the Phantoms playing across the street, is the AHL franchise moving to the Meadowlands. I could also see the ECHL franchise being shifted to South Mountain arena (the Devils old practice facility) which would seem more suited to ECHL-type attendance and be more centrally located to the Devils' fan base.
but it's taking a while for the Nets to leave 16 W THAN THE Devils did by moving to Newark, yes, the Spectrum was a unique situation but NJ had a lot of issues upon exiting what is the IZOD, THAN to deal w/ the NJSEA if they had a bad falling out.

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07-30-2009, 03:09 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by TonyVP View Post
although the Flyers didn't have much success with having the Phantoms playing across the street.
Tony, as I re-read your post, are you saying that the Phantoms weren't a success? If so, based on what?

The Phantoms were never going to be able to maintain the attendance levels that they had in their first few seasons, especially after Titans and Royals (and even Bullies) came into existence and took away some of their fanbase. The fact that they consistenly drew 6000-7000 in a major league city is successful IMO.

The other key difference between the Flyers/Phantoms/Spectrum situation and the Devils/Devils/IZOD is that the the Flyers/Phantoms/Spectrum parent club owned the arena and basically played in it rent-free while the Devils would have to sign a lease to play in East Rutherford.

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Old
08-02-2009, 04:39 PM
  #59
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Just a thought - as there is no money for a new arena in the Lehigh Valley, there is a possibility that Reading could be the future home of the Phantoms.

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08-02-2009, 04:45 PM
  #60
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Just a thought - as there is no money for a new arena in the Lehigh Valley, there is a possibility that Reading could be the future home of the Phantoms.
Obviously anything is a possibility, but what incentive is there for the Royals ownership to cease operations of a successful franchise?

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08-03-2009, 07:10 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Obviously anything is a possibility, but what incentive is there for the Royals ownership to cease operations of a successful franchise?
Today, maybe none. 2 or 3 years down the road - who knows?

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08-03-2009, 01:12 PM
  #62
HansH
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Obviously anything is a possibility, but what incentive is there for the Royals ownership to cease operations of a successful franchise?
Playing Devil's Advocate here (I don't actually think the Phantoms would be reading-bound):

The Royals ownership is a 50/50 split between the Kings (AEG) and SMG (the arena managers of the facility). The Kings don't send their players to Reading any longer, even though they own that half stake. SMG would be in for whatever maximized their revenue and profit from the arena, clearly. So, the question for SMG would be "might we be able to buy a half share in the AHL Phantoms from the brothers Brooks, and have increased costs balanced out from increased geographical rivalries, and a high-minors Philly association instead of a mid-minors Toronto one?" The answer might be no, it might be yes. Perhaps the Kings would be willing to be bought out of the ECHL Royals, if they had an interest in investing in the ECHL Ontario Reign (where they're sending their handful of mid-minors players).

I'm really not familiar with the timbre of relations between the Kings and SMG with respect to operation of the Royals. Most (including me) -assume- the Royals are making money - but there's been really no indication one way or the other what either party's thoughts are on the continued operations of the Royals, or any AHL thoughts.

Now, the above was all me being Devil's Advocate. If I were in either SMG's or AEG's feet, I would be inclined towards "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" with respect to the income streams generated by the Royals. JMO, of course.

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08-03-2009, 01:36 PM
  #63
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I know there is always talk of territorial rights when it comes to a new franchise, but I don't think the actual "rule" is public (assuming such a thing even exists). That said, assuming the rule does exist, would Hershey need to approve of a new AHL team in Reading?

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08-03-2009, 01:55 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
I know there is always talk of territorial rights when it comes to a new franchise, but I don't think the actual "rule" is public (assuming such a thing even exists). That said, assuming the rule does exist, would Hershey need to approve of a new AHL team in Reading?
Can you conceive of Hershey NOT giving said approval to a prospective AHL Reading team? Just imagine the rivalry nights -- and I can't imagine it would impact the AHL Hershey (minor-pro-leading) attendance negatively, given that Reading already has a team (albeit ECHL).

Just to clarify - I'm not saying there's no way that Hershey would deny it. I'm just saying that from this outsider's view, it "should" be a no-brainer for Hershey to approve said hypothetical situation -- if anyone knows any counterarguments, I would be very interested to learn about them.

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08-03-2009, 02:21 PM
  #65
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Can you conceive of Hershey NOT giving said approval to a prospective AHL Reading team? Just imagine the rivalry nights -- and I can't imagine it would impact the AHL Hershey (minor-pro-leading) attendance negatively, given that Reading already has a team (albeit ECHL).

Just to clarify - I'm not saying there's no way that Hershey would deny it. I'm just saying that from this outsider's view, it "should" be a no-brainer for Hershey to approve said hypothetical situation -- if anyone knows any counterarguments, I would be very interested to learn about them.
The only issue is whether an AHL team in Reading would take away from Hershey's fanbase (the two cities are only an hour away from each other).

I do know a bunch of people who dropped their Bears tix in favor of Reading (much like some people dropping Phantoms tix in favor of Reading and Trenton). Certainly some fans (particularly those that live closer to Reading) didn't make the change because they prefer the AHL product. So, if an AHL team played in Reading would those fans go to Reading instead?

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08-03-2009, 03:40 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
The only issue is whether an AHL team in Reading would take away from Hershey's fanbase (the two cities are only an hour away from each other).

I do know a bunch of people who dropped their Bears tix in favor of Reading (much like some people dropping Phantoms tix in favor of Reading and Trenton). Certainly some fans (particularly those that live closer to Reading) didn't make the change because they prefer the AHL product. So, if an AHL team played in Reading would those fans go to Reading instead?
I suppose the question for Hershey would be more "would those numbers of fans be offset by the Reading fans traveling for road trips against Hershey or not". I suppose only the Bears' ownership could say for certain which way they'd come down on that topic!

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08-03-2009, 05:43 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumblick View Post
Today, maybe none. 2 or 3 years down the road - who knows?
unless Reading hits a roadblock, like what happened to Augusta and Fresno couldn't recover FROM, it's safe to say those regulations that both leagues have, are an aberration, and not the SOP.

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08-03-2009, 06:27 PM
  #68
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unless Reading hits a roadblock, like what happened to Augusta and Fresno couldn't recover FROM, it's safe to say those regulations that both leagues have, are an aberration, and not the SOP.
Anyone care to translate??? And maybe explain to me the random capital words as well.

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08-04-2009, 09:00 AM
  #69
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Anyone care to translate??? And maybe explain to me the random capital words as well.
I'm guessing that SOP is standard operating procedure and that even if they leagues do have a territorial rights rule that they don't necessarily enforce it.

What I don't know is what roadblock Mr BoG is referring to.

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08-04-2009, 09:42 AM
  #70
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Roadblocks could include a drop in attendance, a decision by the current owners to sell, serious issues within the ECHL, or any number of other possible factors. In answer to that, I will reiterate that I said "Who knows" because three years in the current economy can be a LONG time.

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08-04-2009, 12:14 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
I'm guessing that SOP is standard operating procedure and that even if they leagues do have a territorial rights rule that they don't necessarily enforce it.

What I don't know is what roadblock Mr BoG is referring to.
Ok makes sense...and the random capital words??

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08-04-2009, 08:20 PM
  #72
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3 - Still see the ECHL with a place in the East - albeit in more of the smaller, "AHL" of 1980s and 1990s-type markets (Adirondack, Hershey, Binghamton etc). It seems like the AHL has become more of a continental league in medium to larger markets. Whether this will work financially in the long run remains to be seen.
I can't see the ECHL replacing the AHL in smaller markets in the Northeast, unless Lowell gets a Bruins-affiliated ECHL franchise or the Brooks Brothers get their Lehigh Valley arena and move the Phantoms out of Glens Falls. Certainly not in Hershey due to the fact it is the the number one draw in minor league hockey. And I think the AHL in Binghamton is quite sustainable and would be a loss to the Eastern Conference if by some chance it were to lose a team.

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08-04-2009, 08:23 PM
  #73
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Just a thought - as there is no money for a new arena in the Lehigh Valley, there is a possibility that Reading could be the future home of the Phantoms.
This is along the lines of what I was thinking. If, perchance, the Brooks could supplant the ECHL team, it might be better than waiting forever for the Commonwealth to front the money for a new barn an hour away.

Question is: how would the Royals be supplanted?

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08-04-2009, 09:43 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Esoteric View Post
I can't see the ECHL replacing the AHL in smaller markets in the Northeast, unless Lowell gets a Bruins-affiliated ECHL franchise or the Brooks Brothers get their Lehigh Valley arena and move the Phantoms out of Glens Falls. Certainly not in Hershey due to the fact it is the the number one draw in minor league hockey. And I think the AHL in Binghamton is quite sustainable and would be a loss to the Eastern Conference if by some chance it were to lose a team.
THERE IS ZERO CHANCE as long as Andrews remains the head that Binghamton will be supplanted as a member as they were from 1997-2001....

btw, Reading just added a secondary affiliate in Boston, and Lowell will likely never see a Boston affiliation as long as NJ owns that franchise and Providence remains a vital success.

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08-05-2009, 11:42 PM
  #75
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Roadblocks could include a drop in attendance, a decision by the current owners to sell, serious issues within the ECHL, or any number of other possible factors. In answer to that, I will reiterate that I said "Who knows" because three years in the current economy can be a LONG time.
Three years is a long time in ANY economy. Do you know that the dow is now at the point where it was a couple of years ago?

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