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Old
08-05-2009, 11:43 PM
  #76
Tommy Hawk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
....Lowell will likely never see a Boston affiliation as long as NJ owns that franchise...
Duh.

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08-06-2009, 09:42 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Wolvesfan View Post
Duh.
Really? Lowell won't see a Boston affiliate as long as the Devils own it?

Hey, maybe the Devils would be smarter to sign an AHL affiliation deal with the Boston Bruins and then sign an affiliation deal with Providence?

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08-09-2009, 12:39 PM
  #78
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Questions

Remember back in the spring when the Brooks Group agreed to make Glens Falls the Phantoms' temporary home until a Lehigh Valley arena could be built? The Brooks' provided a 1 August deadline to secure an arena deal for the area.

Also, remember how Governor Rendell stated that the Commonwealth would not pony up the $40 million share that was requested for financing?

So now that the Commonwealth funding is not there and the 1 August deadline has passed, what happens now? Has there been anything in the news about this? Have the Brooks' made any statements about 1) extending the deadline for LV, 2) remaining permanently in Glens Falls or 3) looking elsewhere for a home for the Phantoms?

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08-09-2009, 12:58 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Esoteric View Post
So now that the Commonwealth funding is not there and the 1 August deadline has passed, what happens now? Has there been anything in the news about this? Have the Brooks' made any statements about 1) extending the deadline for LV, 2) remaining permanently in Glens Falls or 3) looking elsewhere for a home for the Phantoms?
Best I could find. It is dated July 23.

Quote:
Developers of what could be an $80 million hockey arena have tentatively chosen the Allentown riverfront as the location for the 8,000-seat complex, picking it over a Bethlehem proposal that would put the arena on the site of the Sands Casino Resort, according to sources.

Allentown officials are negotiating with the Pittsburgh-based Brooks Group on a plan to locate the arena somewhere on 120 acres along the west bank of the Lehigh River, sources say.

The Brooks Group had set an Aug. 1 deadline for Lehigh Valley officials to submit plans for a hockey arena that would also host concerts, Disney ice shows, graduations, trade shows and other events.
Link
Looks like they are in process.

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Old
08-09-2009, 01:06 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Majik1987 View Post
Best I could find. It is dated July 23.



Looks like they are in process.
Thanks.

I thought the project had died a quiet death, having not seen anything in the rumor mills. Keep your eyes out for this impending announcement from the Brooks Group.

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08-09-2009, 04:25 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Esoteric View Post
Remember back in the spring when the Brooks Group agreed to make Glens Falls the Phantoms' temporary home until a Lehigh Valley arena could be built? The Brooks' provided a 1 August deadline to secure an arena deal for the area.

Also, remember how Governor Rendell stated that the Commonwealth would not pony up the $40 million share that was requested for financing?

So now that the Commonwealth funding is not there and the 1 August deadline has passed, what happens now? Has there been anything in the news about this? Have the Brooks' made any statements about 1) extending the deadline for LV, 2) remaining permanently in Glens Falls or 3) looking elsewhere for a home for the Phantoms?
Regarding the AHL, aside from a couple of franchises is anything "permanent". It's as permanent as their lease deal is for and even that's debateable.

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Old
08-09-2009, 08:15 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Regarding the AHL, aside from a couple of franchises is anything "permanent". It's as permanent as their lease deal is for and even that's debateable.
Understood. However, the situation in Adirondack is temporary by design. I was wondering if perhaps the Brooks Group might have extended their commitment to Glens Falls as the deadline had passed.

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08-10-2009, 09:47 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Esoteric View Post
Understood. However, the situation in Adirondack is temporary by design. I was wondering if perhaps the Brooks Group might have extended their commitment to Glens Falls as the deadline had passed.
I understand what you are saying.

That said there's really no reason for the Brooks Group to extend their lease at this point in time.

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Old
08-10-2009, 11:03 AM
  #84
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From the article:
Quote:
Perhaps the biggest hurdle is that budget problems prevent the city and Lehigh County from contributing to the $80 million needed to build the arena. Developers say they'll kick in 20 percent, but with the state facing a budget deficit, there may be no money to add.
Seems like nothing's changed.

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Old
08-25-2009, 06:27 PM
  #85
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Quick question:

I've been reading (with some amazement) the Business of Hockey forum thread(s) on the NHL Phoenix bankruptcy and legal proceedings. From all that, the only thing that's clear is that nothing is yet clear, and will likely continue to drag on.

That said, IF the group attempting to move the Coyotes to Hamilton does succeed in the purchase AND the relocation, but is forced to play the beginning of the 2009-10 season in Glendale because of the appeals (and other timing)...

can someone clear up for me what would happen to the Bulldogs in this case? As I understand it, they have a lease through the end of next season, but might end up tossed out if an NHL team comes in in time for the beginning of the 2009-10 season. But in the above "mid-season" scenario I laid out above, would the NHL team have to share Copps with the Bulldogs through the remainder of the 2009-10 season? Would the NHL team get to force the Bulldogs to reschedule games away from "prime dates"?

Anyone with any insight on this?

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Old
08-26-2009, 12:50 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HansH View Post
Quick question:

I've been reading (with some amazement) the Business of Hockey forum thread(s) on the NHL Phoenix bankruptcy and legal proceedings. From all that, the only thing that's clear is that nothing is yet clear, and will likely continue to drag on.

That said, IF the group attempting to move the Coyotes to Hamilton does succeed in the purchase AND the relocation, but is forced to play the beginning of the 2009-10 season in Glendale because of the appeals (and other timing)...

can someone clear up for me what would happen to the Bulldogs in this case? As I understand it, they have a lease through the end of next season, but might end up tossed out if an NHL team comes in in time for the beginning of the 2009-10 season. But in the above "mid-season" scenario I laid out above, would the NHL team have to share Copps with the Bulldogs through the remainder of the 2009-10 season? Would the NHL team get to force the Bulldogs to reschedule games away from "prime dates"?

Anyone with any insight on this?
Since Reinsdorf has pulled out now and the NHL has submitted a bid, it will be interesting to see who wins. It looks like the NHL is going to take a 60+ million loss by buying it for a Basillie like price and resell it at a loss.

With this twist, I think that even though there is probably some time of out clause for the Copps, it looks like it is going to be a moot point.

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Old
08-26-2009, 07:25 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HansH View Post
Quick question:

I've been reading (with some amazement) the Business of Hockey forum thread(s) on the NHL Phoenix bankruptcy and legal proceedings. From all that, the only thing that's clear is that nothing is yet clear, and will likely continue to drag on.

That said, IF the group attempting to move the Coyotes to Hamilton does succeed in the purchase AND the relocation, but is forced to play the beginning of the 2009-10 season in Glendale because of the appeals (and other timing)...

can someone clear up for me what would happen to the Bulldogs in this case? As I understand it, they have a lease through the end of next season, but might end up tossed out if an NHL team comes in in time for the beginning of the 2009-10 season. But in the above "mid-season" scenario I laid out above, would the NHL team have to share Copps with the Bulldogs through the remainder of the 2009-10 season? Would the NHL team get to force the Bulldogs to reschedule games away from "prime dates"?

Anyone with any insight on this?
Take a look at this article from the Spectator:
http://www.thespec.com/Sports/article/624777

It states that only six games would be in conflict. However, consider the following:
1) Guess who would be booted from Copps on any of the conflict days.
2) If 'Dogs attendance is modest without direct NHL competition, what would it be like with?
3) I am sure Michael Andlauer would be even more upset with the attitude of the City officials just considering sharing the venue.

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Old
08-27-2009, 11:15 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Esoteric View Post
Take a look at this article from the Spectator:
http://www.thespec.com/Sports/article/624777

It states that only six games would be in conflict. However, consider the following:
1) Guess who would be booted from Copps on any of the conflict days.
2) If 'Dogs attendance is modest without direct NHL competition, what would it be like with?
3) I am sure Michael Andlauer would be even more upset with the attitude of the City officials just considering sharing the venue.

Just some thoughts:

They could move games to afternoons or change dates if they keep the dates in Hamilton. They could find other arenas with availability, inlcuding the parent Canadiens arena, or possibly even make them "home/road" games, to be played in the other team's arena. If only six games are in conflict, they'd probably be able to deal with it.

As to the impact on the 'Dogs, they'd keep their season ticket base, but I think any other sales would dry up completely.

Andlauer wouldn't have a choice - he'd have to make do with whatever they give him, as I believe the lease includes an out for an NHL intruder. The sooner it'd happen, the more time he'd have to shop for a 2010-11 home, though.

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08-27-2009, 12:57 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Esoteric View Post
Take a look at this article from the Spectator:
http://www.thespec.com/Sports/article/624777

It states that only six games would be in conflict. However, consider the following:
1) Guess who would be booted from Copps on any of the conflict days.
2) If 'Dogs attendance is modest without direct NHL competition, what would it be like with?
3) I am sure Michael Andlauer would be even more upset with the attitude of the City officials just considering sharing the venue.
Thanks for the link. I know I enjoy the minor pro hockey business soap operas, but this NHL one is just dwarfing EVERYTHING I've ever seen in the minor league world. I shouldn't be surprised, I suppose, but it really continuously has me shaking my head.

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Old
09-03-2009, 02:46 AM
  #90
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As a follow-up to my prior question about "what if the Coyotes are moved to Hamilton in the middle of the 2009-10 season", the following was reported in the middle of today's Coyotes hearing:

Quote:
TSN just reported:
"Kessler said that if they are able to relocate the team, the lease between Bulldogs and Copps would be terminated retroactive to the end of the last season. They would then work it out with the Bulldogs from there."
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=193

So, just in case anyone here isn't following the massive thread in the Business of Hockey forum, I thought I'd share it here. I'm not caught up on the thread or news yet myself, so I don't know if this is already out of date *laughs*

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Old
09-16-2009, 12:29 PM
  #91
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Yesterday's Daily Gazette (which now charges for online content) had an article about the future of the Albany-Carolina affiliation. The affilliation expires after this year, and the Rats CEO is quoted as saying:

Quote:
"I know they [the Hurricanes] are taking a look at some opportunities down there in the Carolinas, so time will tell".

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Old
09-29-2009, 07:29 PM
  #92
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OK, to spice this thread up.

There's quite a bit of "received wisdom" (though that term is relative, given the arena) on some IHL-related boards that "Peoria and Rockford are struggling in the AHL, and are doomed to drop down into the IHL in the next couple of seasons".

1) Do you agree that either of these markets are not long for the AHL?
2) Do you agree that IHL teams would inevitably replace AHL teams departing these markets?

Remember, class - show your work.

Discuss.

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Old
09-30-2009, 04:13 PM
  #93
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Just to back up a topic or two - the PA Legislature is close to passing a budget (but not done yet), and this is the transcript of an exchange from the local news a few nights back when they thought the deal was going to get done.

Quote:
Allentown's goal of landing an ice hockey team could be tied to tonight's budget deal. WFMZ's Bo Koltnow has more.


>> REPORTER: There is separate legislation that uses the tax code to generate new revenue that would to pay for an arena. But it's tied to the budget and we don't know exactly when or if that will pass. But local lawmakers are confident this measure will bring minor league hockey to Allentown.

>> REPORTER: Pennsylvania's budget ripple could now include minor league hockey skating to Allentown's bank of the Lehigh River.

>> DOUG: I think going to be a green light for the team coming to Allentown.

>> REPORTER: The team is the Phantoms.. a minor league affiliate of the Philadelphia Flyers the green light is creative legislation drafted by State Senator Pat Browne that uses the tax code as a revenue creating tool in financing a new Allentown hockey arena.

>> PAT: This would take all the taxes generated at the site, state and local and use to pay for the cost of the development.

>> REPORTER: The bill currently moving with the budget takes the 130 acres of waterfront property already slated as a tax free KOZ zone as part of an already announced development and converts it to what is called a neighborhood improvement zone.

>> JENNIFER: It eliminates our need to come up with huge sums of money of front.

>> REPORTER: Basically using taxes generated on ticket sales and employee salaries in the new neighborhood zone to pay for the estimated $80 million arena. Without burdening the tax payers.

>> DOUG: Not going to increase property taxes to citizens or to the county or to school districts and no increase to hotel tax.

>> REPORTER: State Senator Browne estimates the new zone will raise between 60 and 80 million dollars. Money to be used to keep the sun from setting on the Queen cities goal of scoring minor league hockey.

>> REPORTER: The developers have said they would pay for 20% of the total cost. Any extra money gained from this new zone would be used to pay for other parts of the development.
Looks like this is going to make it to the final budget - the current wrangling is over charging sales tax on movie tickets and other theaters (but not sports events). So apparently the Allentown arena isn't quite dead yet.

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09-30-2009, 04:26 PM
  #94
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Thanks for the update, Royals.

I'm still not quite clear how the construction costs are to be funded. Pat stated "This would take all the taxes generated at the site, state and local and use to pay for the cost of the development".

Aren't those taxes generated after the arena has been built?

Jennifer then stated "It eliminates our need to come up with huge sums of money of front".

Ok, so who's footing the bill to pay the construction workers, equipment rental, building materials during the project?

Just to counter Doug, I'd be perfectly fine with increasing the hotel tax to help fund the arena. Let people visiting the area help fund the arena.

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10-01-2009, 07:09 AM
  #95
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Quote:
>> REPORTER: Basically using taxes generated on ticket sales and employee salaries in the new neighborhood zone to pay for the estimated $80 million arena. Without burdening the tax payers.
Aren't employees the taxpayers ??

This "plan" has a ton of holes in it, all of them landing squarely on the taxpayers. It looks like the same type of scheme that landed Bernie Madoof in the clink.

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10-01-2009, 11:26 AM
  #96
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Aren't employees the taxpayers ??

This "plan" has a ton of holes in it, all of them landing squarely on the taxpayers. It looks like the same type of scheme that landed Bernie Madoof in the clink.
I'm glad that I'm not the only one that sees some issues with this "plan".

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10-05-2009, 08:14 AM
  #97
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OK, to spice this thread up.

There's quite a bit of "received wisdom" (though that term is relative, given the arena) on some IHL-related boards that "Peoria and Rockford are struggling in the AHL, and are doomed to drop down into the IHL in the next couple of seasons".

1) Do you agree that either of these markets are not long for the AHL?
2) Do you agree that IHL teams would inevitably replace AHL teams departing these markets?

Remember, class - show your work.

Discuss.
I'll bite...

For one, have you seen any news or reports on the other boards about these teams specifically, or are these ideas completely based in rumor, local pessimism, or misunderstandings of the league's quirky financial dynamics?

Being in the West Division, it seems that any city would have to draw more than the high 3,000's to be financailly viable, unlike in the Northeast bus regions, where that number seems very doable. However, I have not seen much in the way of news regarding these teams' financial woes, save for the problems with the Rockford Metro Centre's finances. So let me proceed to each point...

1) Rockford: As stated above, the main source of woe for this team would be the Metro Centre, especially since they also own the team itself. If in the Metro Centre's financial restructuring efforts it is decided that they need to sell the team, it will all depend on if there is a buyer willing to continue operating the team there. Another factor is the Blackhawks affiliation. This helps, but I am curious if the Hawks would ever be interested in exploring a relationship with the Wolves. This could potentially leave the team high and dry either when the affiliation agreement is up or when it is broken.

Peoria: I've not heard any news or rumor about them. I think the Blues like the situation they have and would be put at a disadvantage if there was no longer a team in Peoria. I think it would be very possible if the current owners wanted to sell the team, the Blues might be an interested buyer. And there really are no options as far as I know that are close to St Louis, save for KC. But the lease in KC would probably be more pricey than in Peoria, with likely little increase in attendance.

2) Rockford: Given its UHL history, I think the IHL would whip up an expansion team for Rockford if the AHL ever left. However, I think that the ECHL would be interested in Rockford, and Rockford interested in the ECHL if a Blackhawks affiliation were involved. And if Peoria ended up back in the ECHL.

Peoria: I see Peoria going into the IHL quite unlikely, given their ECHL history and the ECHL's bridge to the Midwest created by Kalamazoo. A Blues affiliation would probably be involved. As stated above, this would also likely have a bearing on where Rockford ends up.

Summary: Given the dynamics of the West Division of the AHL, it still remains to be seen if small markets drawing in the 3,500-4,000 range can survive in the Midwest like they can in the Northeast due to increased travel costs. Right now, it seems as if they can. If the league retains its current footprint more or less, I don't see these teams going anywhere. Travel savings can be facilitated by a schedule heavy in Midwestern opponents, even a division that is made up entirely of Midwestern teams.

However, if the league continues to grow westward, these franchises might be among the first ones targeted for relocation, with their affiliations going to other teams in the region. Travel costs may be too much to bear in a conference that includes teams in the Midwest, Texas, and the West Coast as opposed to one with teams just in the Midwest and Texas.

Personally, I hope these teams stick around for the sake of the fans in their markets and for affordable AHL hockey in the Midwest.

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10-05-2009, 05:03 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Esoteric View Post
I'll bite...

For one, have you seen any news or reports on the other boards about these teams specifically, or are these ideas completely based in rumor, local pessimism, or misunderstandings of the league's quirky financial dynamics?
No, I haven't seen any news or reports on those teams other than the reports of the Rockford arena management entity's financial issues (and the entwinement with the ownership of the team).

The Peoria rumors have been going on for quite some time, but there's been precious little to hang them on. Did the Blues succeed in purchasing a majority stake in the Rivermen? I think most of the speculation about them being no longer AHL affiliated hung on one of the owners no longer being interested in the AHL, but if the Blues bought them, that would seem to allay that, in my opinion. Some people seem convinced that the Blues would want to put the Rivermen into St. Charles (and the Family Arena, former home to the UHL Missouri River Otters)... but others say there's no way the Blues would cannibalize the St. Louis market like that.

I have my own opinions about the people on IHL-themed boards who are rooting for the AHL's demise in those two markets -- and I think they're in alignment with yours


Last edited by HansH: 10-05-2009 at 06:03 PM. Reason: Added question about Rivermen ownership
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Old
10-06-2009, 08:30 PM
  #99
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I did find the following link from the Peoria Journal-Star on one of those IHL-themed boards -- it's speculative, and the Blues are making all the right noises of staying in Peoria, but they are trying to get a better lease out of the Peoria Civic Center, and the article reports "rumblings" of Kansas City or other destinations. It's not much, but it's a little more than was usually being leaned on by the IHL partisans.

http://www.pjstar.com/sports/x366037...a-on-the-clock

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Old
10-07-2009, 09:29 AM
  #100
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Using an article written by Dave Eminian as a source is equal to using a monkey or a chicken to pick the winner of a game.

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