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LA/SJ: Stoll for Marleau.

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Old
07-08-2009, 03:24 PM
  #51
hockeyball
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In this situation, the Kings could wait to get Marleau in the offseason but then they have to deal with a bidding war that could drive up the price.
I personally guarantee you if that is Marleau is not traded this season, he will be a shark for life. He loves it in SJ, his wife doesn't want to move, and the team loves him. Only reason he may be traded is because of the captaincy. If he makes it through this season, obviously the captaincy issue was sorted out and he'll sign at a discount, again, next season.

Marleau would probably sign for 4.5m if it was a take or leave it kind of thing just to stay put.

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07-08-2009, 03:30 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Palffy33 View Post
Trevor Lewis, Ted Purcell, a 4th??? Not so sure but would that work?
Purcell: Has Good hands and speed. When he is with good players on 1st 2nd line he WILL produce.
There's too much uncertainty in that kind of package to make it worth it value wise. Any center piece surrounding a deal with Marleau needs to have a top six winger coming back and being supported by players like Lewis and Purcell. The Sharks won't trade Marleau for just 3rd and 4th line players.

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Originally Posted by Kingjordan View Post
or we can wait till offseason and get Patrick Marleau without giving up anything
Doubtful. If Marleau doesn't get dealt, he's re-signing in San Jose or he's getting 7.5 mil from the highest bidder. It's definitely a high price and probably too high but even in an economy such as this, players are getting dished out high contracts. The positive with Marleau in such a scenario is that generally his contracts are 2 year deals so it won't be a long-term binding contract if he follows his own pattern of signings.

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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
If there was going to be a deal, I'd expect something like:

Moller, Bernier + 1st & 2nd for Marleau

That make's more sense, Sharks' gets some pick's, a backup goalie they may have more confidence in then Greiss, and a promising young player. Plus a bunch of cap space.

That said, i still wouldn't do it. But it's close to reality.
LA wouldn't go for this. Bernier is their goalie of the future and throwing Moller and two high picks is too much for Marleau. I don't think Moller is capable of playing top line minutes but the only way he'd fit on the Sharks as a Marleau replacement is for him to be on Thornton's right side with Michalek on the left. I don't think that could work in the immediate future.

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07-08-2009, 03:39 PM
  #53
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I agree on the 1st, wasn't considering that LA's first will still probably be pretty high next year. A mid to late first is what I was accounting for.

I disagree on goalie of the future. They have Quick, Ersberg, and Bernier, they aren't going to keep all 3 around forever.

Moller, Ersberg + 1st

Moller, Bernier + 2nd

Better? I still wouldn't do it because it pretty much erases any hope the Shark's have for this season.

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07-08-2009, 03:48 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I agree on the 1st, wasn't considering that LA's first will still probably be pretty high next year. A mid to late first is what I was accounting for.

I disagree on goalie of the future. They have Quick, Ersberg, and Bernier, they aren't going to keep all 3 around forever.

Moller, Ersberg + 1st

Moller, Bernier + 2nd

Better? I still wouldn't do it because it pretty much erases any hope the Shark's have for this season.
Ersberg and Quick are flash-in-the-pan goalies. Bernier will be their goalie of the future as long as their defense continues to improve. They're not going to give him up.

The Sharks also have no need for Ersberg anyway because they're going with Greiss. This has already been decided so there's no point in even proposing a deal involving what would be a backup to a team that has that addressed already. Value wise it is better but still not acceptable for either team.

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07-08-2009, 03:50 PM
  #55
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My suspicion is Greiss isn't going to cut it, and DW knows this. He is a last resort backup at this point. He didn't trust him two years ago so he signed Boucher. He didn't trust him last year, so he re-signed Boucher. He didn't trust him this year so he went after Gustavsson. he didn't get Gustavsson so now we are stuck with Greiss.

I hope he surprises us, but the team doesn't seem to have any faith in him.

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07-08-2009, 04:02 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
My suspicion is Greiss isn't going to cut it, and DW knows this. He is a last resort backup at this point. He didn't trust him two years ago so he signed Boucher. He didn't trust him last year, so he re-signed Boucher. He didn't trust him this year so he went after Gustavsson. he didn't get Gustavsson so now we are stuck with Greiss.

I hope he surprises us, but the team doesn't seem to have any faith in him.
Look, if DW didn't have the intention of giving Greiss the backup spot, he wouldn't have said so. He has no reason to tell Greiss that he's our designated backup going into the season if he felt he wasn't ready. If he wasn't ready, he would keep him stashed in the farm and re-upped Boucher or take one of the many goalie options available on the market.

He went after Gustavsson because he's a talented goalie they could've picked up for nothing and you don't turn down an opportunity to gain a next-to-free asset.

He didn't trust Greiss during the 2007-08 season because he only completed one year of NA hockey up to that point and was still pretty green to it. He was the better goalie between him and Patzold at that time and they knew it but he was better off starting and improving at that time because of his inexperience to this style as opposed to sitting on his butt in San Jose. He's grown since then and the way he finished out this season in Worcester has given him the opportunity in San Jose. It's Greiss' spot to lose.

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Old
07-08-2009, 04:21 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Look, if DW didn't have the intention of giving Greiss the backup spot, he wouldn't have said so. He has no reason to tell Greiss that he's our designated backup going into the season if he felt he wasn't ready. If he wasn't ready, he would keep him stashed in the farm and re-upped Boucher or take one of the many goalie options available on the market.
When did Wilson say Greiss was going to be the back up this season?

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07-08-2009, 04:37 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by byter View Post
When did Wilson say Greiss was going to be the back up this season?
Wayne Thomas, the assistant GM to Doug Wilson, told Brian Boucher that Gustavsson or Greiss would be backing up next season. I would assume the assistant GM is in the know of player personnel plans. Granted, that could change but there's no reason to.

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07-08-2009, 06:15 PM
  #59
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07-08-2009, 07:13 PM
  #60
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Marleau's not going to LA.

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07-08-2009, 07:15 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by colorfinger View Post
Looking at both teams, Stoll doesn't make much sense for SJ but makes the most sense from LA. Frolov makes the more sense from SJ but doesn't give them as much cap space as they would want. Moller makes the most sense for SJ, but the least for LA because of the cap space issues it would create for LA. (Stoll, Frolov, Moller etc all would need sweetened, but I'm not debating that).
Frolov's cap hit = 2.9 for one year
Stoll's cap hit = 3.6 for 3 more years

Frolov gives SJ MORE cap relief for Marleau than Stoll.

If Frolov went for Marleau, there really wouldn't be all that much more that needs to be added. Both are in contract years. Marleau is the better player, but Frolov opens up over 3 mill in cap space for the Sharks, nothing to snear at.

That said I wouldn't do it, because I want Frolov to be a King forever and ever.

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07-08-2009, 07:17 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by RoundsHansen32 View Post
Marleau's not going to LA.
There's also that... which I agree with.

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Old
07-08-2009, 07:23 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
If there was going to be a deal, I'd expect something like:

Moller, Bernier + 1st & 2nd for Marleau

That make's more sense, Sharks' gets some pick's, a backup goalie they may have more confidence in then Greiss, and a promising young player. Plus a bunch of cap space.

That said, i still wouldn't do it. But it's close to reality.


man you made my day.

We should close that thread here..........
The Sharks wanna keep Marleau and we don't need him with what he would cost.

Doesn't make sense to argue anymore, Everyone is just repeating

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07-08-2009, 07:59 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by SharkyMcWoo View Post
You want to add scoring depth on our 3rd line... by giving up our top scorer?

Please explain, I must be missing something.
Well, i'm trying to create pairs that play together and clearly we lacked socring depth last season Stoll would fill this role. We can find someone else to play with Joe on the first line -- so yes i'm giveing up our leading goal scorer for depth scoring and a pick.

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07-08-2009, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post

We should close this forum here..........
Doesn't make sense to argue anymore, Everyone is just repeating
FTFY
Oh HAY, you seem to be describing every thread in this particular sub-forum.

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07-08-2009, 08:03 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
If there was going to be a deal, I'd expect something like:

Moller, Bernier + 1st & 2nd for Marleau

That make's more sense, Sharks' gets some pick's, a backup goalie they may have more confidence in then Greiss, and a promising young player. Plus a bunch of cap space.

That said, i still wouldn't do it. But it's close to reality.
I don't think the sharks are going to continue to give up picks as they need to restock the prospect pool. They need to recieve picks as a result of some deal.

Bernier is interesting to have on the Sharks - the package proposed sounds a little uneaver to me in favor of LAK - i'd pass as this is not the kind of deal teal is looking for...

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07-08-2009, 08:04 PM
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07-08-2009, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I personally guarantee you if that is Marleau is not traded this season, he will be a shark for life. He loves it in SJ, his wife doesn't want to move, and the team loves him. Only reason he may be traded is because of the captaincy. If he makes it through this season, obviously the captaincy issue was sorted out and he'll sign at a discount, again, next season.

Marleau would probably sign for 4.5m if it was a take or leave it kind of thing just to stay put.
Yes.

Marleau has one more year on this contract and then he's a UFA. And then he will proceed to take a sizeable paycut to stay in SJ. Sorry he's not available

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07-08-2009, 10:14 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Frolov's cap hit = 2.9 for one year
Stoll's cap hit = 3.6 for 3 more years

Frolov gives SJ MORE cap relief for Marleau than Stoll.

If Frolov went for Marleau, there really wouldn't be all that much more that needs to be added. Both are in contract years. Marleau is the better player, but Frolov opens up over 3 mill in cap space for the Sharks, nothing to snear at.

That said I wouldn't do it, because I want Frolov to be a King forever and ever.
Stoll isn't what SJ wants, so when I am talking about more cap space I am comparing the players that fit the build more... Moller and Frolov. Frolov is the better player right now but Moller has potential and opens up the cap space they are looking for (in theory if they are moving Marleau).

I don't think Frolov would require say a 1st and Moller to get the deal done, but I think Marleau would require a good prospect along with Frolov to get it done.

Either way, I doubt it happens, but if it did and I was San Jose... I would start by targeting Frolov or Moller.

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07-08-2009, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colorfinger View Post
Stoll isn't what SJ wants, so when I am talking about more cap space I am comparing the players that fit the build more... Moller and Frolov. Frolov is the better player right now but Moller has potential and opens up the cap space they are looking for (in theory if they are moving Marleau).

I don't think Frolov would require say a 1st and Moller to get the deal done, but I think Marleau would require a good prospect along with Frolov to get it done.

Either way, I doubt it happens, but if it did and I was San Jose... I would start by targeting Frolov or Moller.
Well San jose needs that grit they seem to be missing every year the playoffs hit. So I disagree but that's just my opinion.

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07-08-2009, 11:31 PM
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If the Sharks had wanted a guy like Stoll, they could have kept Marcel Goc at less than 1/3rd the price, sacrificing most/all of Stoll's point production and little over half of his grit. Faceoffs, work on the boards, effort, penalty killing ability, ect the Sharks had in Goc. They aren't looking to pay that much for his skillset.

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07-08-2009, 11:31 PM
  #72
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Ersberg and Quick are flash-in-the-pan goalies. Bernier will be their goalie of the future as long as their defense continues to improve. They're not going to give him up.
Quick might be a flash in the pan but it's also a little too soon to give him that label. He's going to the US Olympic training camp later this summer and depending on Bernier's play in camp, Quick could be the starter again in LA this season.

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07-08-2009, 11:40 PM
  #73
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Well San jose needs that grit they seem to be missing every year the playoffs hit. So I disagree but that's just my opinion.
Gritty secondary players are not what the Sharks need. Sharks need their primary players to start showing grit or get primary contributors who show the grit. Jarret Stoll is in no way, shape, or form a primary contributor so you may disagree but you're wrong. lol

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Quick might be a flash in the pan but it's also a little too soon to give him that label. He's going to the US Olympic training camp later this summer and depending on Bernier's play in camp, Quick could be the starter again in LA this season.
I have no doubt that Ersberg or Quick can fill in as good stopgap measures but they're not long-term solutions and Bernier is but he's got to develop and he's still a bit away from doing that. I don't mean to demean them as players but they're ceiling and potential are more limited than Bernier and that's all I was trying to project in my response.

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Old
07-08-2009, 11:52 PM
  #74
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If the Sharks had wanted a guy like Stoll, they could have kept Marcel Goc at less than 1/3rd the price, sacrificing most/all of Stoll's point production and little over half of his grit. Faceoffs, work on the boards, effort, penalty killing ability, ect the Sharks had in Goc. They aren't looking to pay that much for his skillset.
Sorry, but Stoll is a MUCH better and more valuable player than Goc.

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07-08-2009, 11:55 PM
  #75
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Sorry, but Stoll is a MUCH better and more valuable player than Goc.
He's not saying otherwise. He's only saying that Goc would be a more cost-effective solution given certain sacrifices.

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