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Kronwall to Vancouver

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Old
07-08-2009, 05:45 PM
  #76
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i agree with everyone that hansen/raymond/graber/wellwood cannot be traded for kronwall because of the difference in valeu to their team..

hodgson would be OK..he has proven nothing yet at the NHL level but im sure no canucks fan want him traded

but kesler? hes a selke candidate kesler is not going anywhere for a long time unless the right player comes back to vancouver! even though kesler for kronwall is pretty even deal...i'm not sure if either team would do it!!~

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07-08-2009, 05:49 PM
  #77
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If Kesler and Hodgson are untouchable, then Detroit and Vancouver really aren't good partners in a trade. The rest of the stuff Vancouver has to offer is basically skilled depth with potential, something Detroit already has in spades. They'd need either someone established (Kesler) or someone with elite potential (Hodgson) to really make a trade.

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07-08-2009, 05:55 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Kesler. Thats it. If its only Kronwall going to Vancouver, then its only Kesler going to Detroit.

And yes, Kronwall is definitely a puck-moving Dman. Thats one of his greatest assets.
Hmm... I don't know. Kesler isn't someone I'd normally move, but for Kronwall I could definitely live with it. Kronwall is about to hit his prime, and I really like that contract that he has as of now.

Just making a guess, but maybe Detroit fans want Kesler because he's from their area?

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Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Its already in the thread but.

1. Cheap top 6 scoring winger (fairly young)
2. Cheap bottom 6 rugged winger (preferably vet) ala dallas drake
3. Blue chip offensive defensemen prospects (2yrs+ from being ready for the NHL)*we can never have enough of these. Otherwise we have all the prospects we need at every position and would only consider really quality prospects/gamebreakers. Don't need future picks for current talent because our current team is starting to get a bit thin.
1. Demitra and Raymond are about the only Top-6 wingers on our team that are A) Available and B) Definitely top six. I know Raymond's stats are terrible, but with the way he was used this year I'm sure it decreased his... well, everything.

Prospects considered, we have Grabner, Hansen, Shirokov, Rodin, and Schroeder who could potentially fit that bill. I'm sure given the chance, Detroit would turn them into Zetterbergs V.2. Hah.

2. We just signed one, I don't know if you'd have any interest. Something like Michael Samuels, err.

3. We need one of these too, I'm afraid.

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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
We'll give you Stuart and Kronwall for Bieksa and Kesler. Kthanks.

EDIT:
I just remembered that this is Brad Stuart, aha. In any case, we can't do this deal because we're losing our #1 defenceman AND getting older on the back end, something we're trying to fix.

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Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Hes a top 10 puck mover arguably top 5 imo.

Neidemeyer, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Campbell, Boyle are the type of guys I consider him with in regards to that skill.

His fault is he has the worst shot out of those guys. He is a better puck mover than quite a few of the big name defensemen, but he is not a better all around defensemen than them.
Guys like Pronger, Chara, etc.

If you were to take Lidstrom and Campbell and find the mid point between the two (above average defense but not great) and give him the shot of Brad Stuart you'd have Nik Kronwall as a all round guy.

Elite passing
Elite Puck handling
Elite vision
Fast
Hits big
Deke's alot (has the agility of an elite forward) never understood why he plays like this but he does.
Shoots alot but the shots are always inaccurate.
Middle size
Above average positioning (when focused, if he is pinching/hitting his positioning is obviously a bit worse)
Can QB a powerplay from the point or run it off the boards like a forward
Can PK
Thank you so much- this was supremely informative. The more and more I read, the more and more I feel as though he's exactly what we're looking for. Unfortunately, I don't think we have what it takes to pull him out of Detroit barring a huge overpayment on our part.

Ugh. I'm jealous.


Last edited by Saren: 07-08-2009 at 06:04 PM.
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Old
07-08-2009, 06:04 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Aeon View Post
I think that's undoable, whether you believe the value is fair or not, but because Vancouver as it stands cannot afford to move any more defenceman due to our hole in that area.
He wasnt being entirely serious (i think) but you realize he offered 2 defensemen for 1 defensemen and 1 forward.

Kronwall/Stuart is our current 2nd pair. I think most posters agree Kronwall is one of/is the best 3rd and stuart is one of/is the best 4th in the league. They are both slotted into the depth chart below their abilities. Imo they are both number 2 dmen. Neither has quite enough poise to be number 1 but they are great compliments. Ofc my standard for Number 1 dman is Lidstrom, Chara, Pronger. In reality Kronwall could prob be a number one guy on some teams, stuart not so much. (though stuart was imo our best defensemen during this years playoffs, babcock really knows how to work him)

Its a interesting deal but Im not sure id personally do it. But it would certainly help your defensive depth not hurt it.

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07-08-2009, 06:08 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Aeon View Post

Just making a guess, but maybe Detroit fans want Kesler because he's from their area?
Nah we have a thing for two way forwards. Especially gritty ones that can score goals. He would look mighty nice in a top 6 with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula, Franzen and Cleary. Thats alot of selke quality defense.

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07-08-2009, 06:09 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
He wasnt being entirely serious (i think) but you realize he offered 2 defensemen for 1 defensemen and 1 forward.

Kronwall/Stuart is our current 2nd pair. I think most posters agree Kronwall is one of/is the best 3rd and stuart is one of/is the best 4th in the league. They are both slotted into the depth chart below their abilities. Imo they are both number 2 dmen. Neither has quite enough poise to be number 1 but they are great compliments. Ofc my standard for Number 1 dman is Lidstrom, Chara, Pronger. In reality Kronwall could prob be a number one guy on some teams, stuart not so much. (though stuart was imo our best defensemen during this years playoffs, babcock really knows how to work him)

Its a interesting deal but Im not sure id personally do it. But it would certainly help your defensive depth not hurt it.
Yeah, I caught that haha. Edited my post not too long ago. Brain farts.

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07-08-2009, 06:11 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Nah we have a thing for two way forwards. Especially gritty ones that can score goals. He would look mighty nice in a top 6 with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula, Franzen and Cleary. Thats alot of selke quality defense.
I'm sure if he was playing in your Top-6 as opposed to ours, he would have had 70 points no problem. He only played in our Top-6 for 30 or so games, too, so you know the potential is definitely there.

Again, for Kronwall, I'd be reluctant.. but I'd do it. Maybe. LOL.

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07-08-2009, 06:11 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
He wasnt being entirely serious (i think) but you realize he offered 2 defensemen for 1 defensemen and 1 forward.

Kronwall/Stuart is our current 2nd pair. I think most posters agree Kronwall is one of/is the best 3rd and stuart is one of/is the best 4th in the league. They are both slotted into the depth chart below their abilities. Imo they are both number 2 dmen. Neither has quite enough poise to be number 1 but they are great compliments. Ofc my standard for Number 1 dman is Lidstrom, Chara, Pronger. In reality Kronwall could prob be a number one guy on some teams, stuart not so much. (though stuart was imo our best defensemen during this years playoffs, babcock really knows how to work him)

Its a interesting deal but Im not sure id personally do it. But it would certainly help your defensive depth not hurt it.
Correct. That was a tongue-in-cheek comment.

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07-08-2009, 06:21 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Aeon View Post


EDIT:
I just remembered that this is Brad Stuart, aha. In any case, we can't do this deal because we're losing our #1 defenceman AND getting older on the back end, something we're trying to fix.
.
FYI, Kronwall and Bieksa are both 28, and Stuart is 29. I'm not sure sub-30 years old is really old.

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07-08-2009, 06:29 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Nah we have a thing for two way forwards. Especially gritty ones that can score goals. He would look mighty nice in a top 6 with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula, Franzen and Cleary. Thats alot of selke quality defense.
But honestly, having a kid from Livonia who's a really good player would probably do wonders for merchandise sales, too.

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07-08-2009, 06:33 PM
  #86
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But honestly, having a kid from Livonia who's a really good player would probably do wonders for merchandise sales, too.
Personally I think id do it. But I expect Lidstrom to play at least 1 more year (likely 2) after his contract expires. And then we always have his cash to sign a FA.

Our defensive Core in 3 years sans lidstrom would still be

Rafalski (getting old)
Stuart (solid)
Ericsson (prime)
Kindl (hopefully)
Smith (rookie)

I think we can work with that when you consider our other fringe guys and UFAs.

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07-08-2009, 06:38 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post

Hansen as a rookie last season scored 22 pts in 55 games from 3rd and 4th line duties. He also has a big frame (6'1 200+lbs) and is VERY fast. That's kinda rare. I don't understand why this kid flys under the radar?
I'll only use a Calgary player as a comparison because its what I know. Dustin Boyd is the same age, has more NHL game experience, scored 22 points in a 4th line role, weighs a bit less and isn't as fast. Both players have potential. They are not the same, but both have a chance of becoming good 2nd line players.

However, I don't over value Boyd and think that he can be a big piece in a trade for a high level puck moving Dman thats 28 years old and has a good contract for the next few years.

Hansen's not flying under the radar, just being a hockey fan of 20+ years too many young players look good but do not pan out. Hansen has not done anything, much like Boyd. Potentially Hansen can be a good player, but you don't move a Dman like Kronwall for a 23 year old with potential... Maybe a 19 year old high end prospect

Value wise Kesler is pretty close to equal. I completely understand why Canucks fans wouldn't trade him tho, i'td be a very tough trade to make. Kronwall isn't a slouch and you have to give to get.

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07-08-2009, 06:50 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
FYI, Kronwall and Bieksa are both 28, and Stuart is 29. I'm not sure sub-30 years old is really old.
One year makes a difference! Haha, okay, my brain is running out of gas, but seriously, I can't see Kevin being moved unless something significant is coming back, as he's our #1 defenceman. You can always give us Ville Leino if you like.

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07-08-2009, 06:56 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Pacem View Post
I'll only use a Calgary player as a comparison because its what I know. Dustin Boyd is the same age, has more NHL game experience, scored 22 points in a 4th line role, weighs a bit less and isn't as fast. Both players have potential. They are not the same, but both have a chance of becoming good 2nd line players.

However, I don't over value Boyd and think that he can be a big piece in a trade for a high level puck moving Dman thats 28 years old and has a good contract for the next few years.

Hansen's not flying under the radar, just being a hockey fan of 20+ years too many young players look good but do not pan out. Hansen has not done anything, much like Boyd. Potentially Hansen can be a good player, but you don't move a Dman like Kronwall for a 23 year old with potential... Maybe a 19 year old high end prospect

Value wise Kesler is pretty close to equal. I completely understand why Canucks fans wouldn't trade him tho, i'td be a very tough trade to make. Kronwall isn't a slouch and you have to give to get.
as a Canuck fan, I'd rank Boyd higher than Hansen... and Raymond for that matter.

I think Hansen is a sure-fire NHLer though... he may never pan out as anything better than a 3rd liner, but he brings the intangibles to be able to stick on that line... he can be a shutdown player as he demonstrated last year, he's good in his own end, and brings a lot of speed, and doesn't shy from physical play... personally, I think his upside is better than Raymond's.

Boyd, IMO, has a higher ceiling though.

as far as this trade goes, I think a Kesler for Kronwall swap is pretty even, but I can't imagine the Canucks making such a move... I believe Kesler is pegged to be a future captain on this team and is a favorite among the coaches and management. The only way he's moved is if there are any problems with his contract extension, but given his comments already, that's not likely to happen.

I expect Kesler to be extended before January for 4-6 years at $3.5-4mill/yr... he and Burrows are Vancouver's new "twins" and will (hopefully) form the core of our 2nd line for the next several years, behind the Sedins... perfect balance IMO.

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07-08-2009, 07:02 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
as a Canuck fan, I'd rank Boyd higher than Hansen... and Raymond for that matter.

I think Hansen is a sure-fire NHLer though... he may never pan out as anything better than a 3rd liner, but he brings the intangibles to be able to stick on that line... he can be a shutdown player as he demonstrated last year, he's good in his own end, and brings a lot of speed, and doesn't shy from physical play... personally, I think his upside is better than Raymond's.

Boyd, IMO, has a higher ceiling though.

as far as this trade goes, I think a Kesler for Kronwall swap is pretty even, but I can't imagine the Canucks making such a move... I believe Kesler is pegged to be a future captain on this team and is a favorite among the coaches and management. The only way he's moved is if there are any problems with his contract extension, but given his comments already, that's not likely to happen.

I expect Kesler to be extended before January for 4-6 years at $3.5-4mill/yr... he and Burrows are Vancouver's new "twins" and will (hopefully) form the core of our 2nd line for the next several years, behind the Sedins... perfect balance IMO.
I think you'll see Kesler at 3ish. Young RFA with a few good years under his belt similar to Krejci or Koivu, I cant see him asking for 4M if he was serious about asking for the discount. But definately Kesler is a catalyst. Even before Sundin came aboard, Vancouver was quite good in October and November despite Luongo playing sub-par because Kesler was contributing well, I believe along with Raymond and Burrows on a line?

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07-08-2009, 07:13 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
If Kesler and Hodgson are untouchable, then Detroit and Vancouver really aren't good partners in a trade. The rest of the stuff Vancouver has to offer is basically skilled depth with potential, something Detroit already has in spades. They'd need either someone established (Kesler) or someone with elite potential (Hodgson) to really make a trade.
We really aren't. Atleast in a deal like this anyways.

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I'll only use a Calgary player as a comparison because its what I know. Dustin Boyd is the same age, has more NHL game experience, scored 22 points in a 4th line role, weighs a bit less and isn't as fast. Both players have potential. They are not the same, but both have a chance of becoming good 2nd line players.

However, I don't over value Boyd and think that he can be a big piece in a trade for a high level puck moving Dman thats 28 years old and has a good contract for the next few years.

Hansen's not flying under the radar, just being a hockey fan of 20+ years too many young players look good but do not pan out. Hansen has not done anything, much like Boyd. Potentially Hansen can be a good player, but you don't move a Dman like Kronwall for a 23 year old with potential... Maybe a 19 year old high end prospect

Value wise Kesler is pretty close to equal. I completely understand why Canucks fans wouldn't trade him tho, i'td be a very tough trade to make. Kronwall isn't a slouch and you have to give to get.
While I do agree there are some points I'd like to add. High end players like Kronwall usually get traded for picks/pospects on a regular basis. Hansen is a young roster player with potential, Grabner is a fairly high end prospect, and a 1st rounder.

Now it gets more complicated as you say Kronwall doesn't need to get traded as they get little cap releif anyways. So, unless Detroit was actually LOOKING to trade Kronwall then this package won't do. Fact of the matter is, for like, the 4th time? Vancouver doesn't have the pieces to acquire Kronwall so it seems.

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07-08-2009, 07:32 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER View Post
I think you'll see Kesler at 3ish. Young RFA with a few good years under his belt similar to Krejci or Koivu, I cant see him asking for 4M if he was serious about asking for the discount. But definately Kesler is a catalyst. Even before Sundin came aboard, Vancouver was quite good in October and November despite Luongo playing sub-par because Kesler was contributing well, I believe along with Raymond and Burrows on a line?
it all depends on where the market is at the time he's signing... given his season last year - 26 goals, 59 pts, and a top 3 Selke nomination, I think his value is sky high right now... he's also the #2 forward in icetime in Vancouver, and was the #3 the year before.

Kesler's got tons of value right now... a $4mill/yr signing could be seen as a discount for a player like this right now, given the signings we've seen this year already... my guess is that he'll get $3.75mill/yr cap hit over 5 years.

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Old
07-08-2009, 07:42 PM
  #93
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Kronwall isn't leaving Detroit...Unless a HUGE overpayment by the other team..

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07-08-2009, 07:47 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
From the outside looking in, it appears the Red Wings have cap issues. They have 8 NHL defenseman signed (or NHL ready), two goalies but only 11 forwards - and have just around $2.5 million in cap space. If the rumors about Hudler leaving to KHL are true then the Red Wings need to sign at least 3 more players: one of which has to be a top 12 forward. It is doable - no doubt - but could leave Detroit too close to the cap to make any significant moves in the season.

So, why not trade one of their d-men. Vancouver needs an offensive minded d-man and, quite frankly, Detroit has 3 of them: Rafalski, Lidstrom and Kronwall. The first two ain't movin' so how about Kronwall. His cap hit is $3 million for the next 3 years and would fit nicely into the Canuck line-up.

I would think any two of the following players would be acceptable for Detroit - given their cap situation and need of lower priced forwards with NHL talent: Hansen, Raymond, Grabner, Wellwood.

Thoughts from both teams? Detroit fans will say not enough - are you crazy. Canuck fans will think it a steal of a deal. But let's remember this is the first season Kronwall has really put up offensive type of numbers - which is what Vancouver would be looking for. So players like Stuary and Lilja would most likely not interest Vancouver at this point. Plus I would think the loss of Kronwall would be offset with the arrival of Ericsson.
If they were trading Kronwall as a salary dump why would they trade them for another player who's gonna take up cap space which they don't need right now?

Draft picks and prospects should be best written in a proposal such as yours.

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07-08-2009, 07:55 PM
  #95
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Kronwall's an awesome player.. This isn't happening.

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