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Why did the Flames fire Hartley?

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Old
12-09-2016, 09:12 AM
  #1
Slush
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Why did the Flames fire Hartley?

I've always wondered the last few months, why exactly did the Flames fire Hartley?

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12-09-2016, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Slush View Post
I've always wondered the last few months, why exactly did the Flames fire Hartley?
There was plenty of reasons I think. Treliving wanted....
  • to play a more possession friendly game
  • to play tougher
  • to play a more structured defensive game
  • his own guy

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12-09-2016, 09:23 AM
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There was plenty of reasons I think. Treliving wanted....
  • to play a more possession friendly game
  • to play tougher
  • to play a more structured defensive game
  • his own guy
Gotcha. Not that I'm disappointed in Gulutzan at all but I was just wondering why the Flames fired Hartley as I liked him as a coach also.

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12-09-2016, 09:29 AM
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Gotcha. Not that I'm disappointed in Gulutzan at all but I was just wondering why the Flames fired Hartley as I liked him as a coach also.
There has also been talk that Hartley was starting to lose the room, not sure how true it was but those demanding task master type coaches generally have shorter shelf lives. If you told me the day he was hired that he'd he last as long as he did, I wouldn't have believed you.

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12-09-2016, 09:56 AM
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His inability to get the team to play any form of defense well was a huge factor in my opinion.

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12-09-2016, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Method Man View Post
There has also been talk that Hartley was starting to lose the room, not sure how true it was but those demanding task master type coaches generally have shorter shelf lives. If you told me the day he was hired that he'd he last as long as he did, I wouldn't have believed you.
That's probably the biggest reason. Gully is more a players coach that will actually give some time off.

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12-09-2016, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Method Man View Post
There has also been talk that Hartley was starting to lose the room, not sure how true it was but those demanding task master type coaches generally have shorter shelf lives. If you told me the day he was hired that he'd he last as long as he did, I wouldn't have believed you.
I've heard this, but I don't believe it was ever confirmed, was it?

I also think that a big reason for his firing, was at the year end interview, I think Hartley said something along the lines of "I don't think I need to change too much"(?) in response to a question regarding how to improve the next season. Soon after, there were emergency meetings with Treliving and co and he was fired. Most of that was covered up by the idea that Treliving was chasing BB though, but IMO, management had a chat with Hartley. If Hartley said that to the media, it really meant he was pushing back against them, which was IMO the biggest reason for his firing if true.

I also recall Treliving's actions and movements seemingly out of the blue and his statements even seemed to reflect it. I'm guessing there was a lot of little stuff here and there they discussed and expected him to change the style to allow a better passing of the torch to allow him to finish his contract. But when Hartley sort of hinted he wasn't expecting to tweak much, management decided to bite the bullet and choose a new guy.

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12-09-2016, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Method Man View Post
There has also been talk that Hartley was starting to lose the room, not sure how true it was but those demanding task master type coaches generally have shorter shelf lives. If you told me the day he was hired that he'd he last as long as he did, I wouldn't have believed you.
Hartley seemed like the type of coach that would only call you out if you're a complete cancer, freeloader, egoistic, etc. individual. If you worked your gluteus maximus off, he would praise you and encourage you to work harder, thus making a more lovable kind of coach.

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12-09-2016, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleF View Post
I've heard this, but I don't believe it was ever confirmed, was it?

I also think that a big reason for his firing, was at the year end interview, I think Hartley said something along the lines of "I don't think I need to change too much"(?) in response to a question regarding how to improve the next season. Soon after, there were emergency meetings with Treliving and co and he was fired. Most of that was covered up by the idea that Treliving was chasing BB though, but IMO, management had a chat with Hartley. If Hartley said that to the media, it really meant he was pushing back against them, which was IMO the biggest reason for his firing if true.

I also recall Treliving's actions and movements seemingly out of the blue and his statements even seemed to reflect it. I'm guessing there was a lot of little stuff here and there they discussed and expected him to change the style to allow a better passing of the torch to allow him to finish his contract. But when Hartley sort of hinted he wasn't expecting to tweak much, management decided to bite the bullet and choose a new guy.
No one will ever confirm it unless they are a dick.

I think it all comes down to philosophical differences between the coach and management, Hartley believed a run and gun style was the way to go and Treliving wanted something more controlled.

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12-09-2016, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleF View Post
I've heard this, but I don't believe it was ever confirmed, was it?

I also think that a big reason for his firing, was at the year end interview, I think Hartley said something along the lines of "I don't think I need to change too much"(?) in response to a question regarding how to improve the next season. Soon after, there were emergency meetings with Treliving and co and he was fired. Most of that was covered up by the idea that Treliving was chasing BB though, but IMO, management had a chat with Hartley. If Hartley said that to the media, it really meant he was pushing back against them, which was IMO the biggest reason for his firing if true.

I also recall Treliving's actions and movements seemingly out of the blue and his statements even seemed to reflect it. I'm guessing there was a lot of little stuff here and there they discussed and expected him to change the style to allow a better passing of the torch to allow him to finish his contract. But when Hartley sort of hinted he wasn't expecting to tweak much, management decided to bite the bullet and choose a new guy.
Hadn't heard about this. Honestly if we'd had halfway decent goaltending last year it's possible Hartley's system could've worked, but for long-term success the team probably needed a more structured approach yeah

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12-09-2016, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Method Man View Post
There has also been talk that Hartley was starting to lose the room, not sure how true it was but those demanding task master type coaches generally have shorter shelf lives. If you told me the day he was hired that he'd he last as long as he did, I wouldn't have believed you.
If you look back at Hartley's history he has always had a short life where ever he had coached. Very demanding and it would prove to work and then guys stop listening. He took a very average Atlanta team that no one expected to do much do a division title and playoffs. The following year they were back in the bottom.

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12-09-2016, 05:57 PM
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In three words, "shot attempt suppression". Hartley did not buy in to its importance, and Gulutzan does.

5-on-5:
2015-16 Flames: 58.51 CA60
2016-17 Flames: 55.44 CA60

4-on-5
2015-16 Flames: 93.68 CA60
2016-17 Flames: 89.60 CA60

And that's with the Jokipakka-Engelland pair tanking us pretty hard lately (62.35 CA60) and Brouwer being a bigger individual black hole than Kris Russell was last year.

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12-09-2016, 06:28 PM
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Treliving was on record saying the Flames needed to improve their puck possession during last season. That wasn't going to happen with Hartley's singular game plan

That combined with his probable losing of the room, and his poor handling of members of the roster, it's not a surprise he got curbed.

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12-09-2016, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLAMES666 View Post
If you look back at Hartley's history he has always had a short life where ever he had coached. Very demanding and it would prove to work and then guys stop listening. He took a very average Atlanta team that no one expected to do much do a division title and playoffs. The following year they were back in the bottom.
Exactly, like I said in my first post in this topic, he lasted longer than I expected him to and I wasn't someone against bringing him in as coach

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Old
12-10-2016, 12:42 AM
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Johnny Hoxville
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Hartley didn't have many fans in the dressing room. I think that was a big part of it, honestly.

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12-10-2016, 08:16 AM
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Hartley didn't have many fans in the dressing room. I think that was a big part of it, honestly.
I think you're right here. I thought I heard on the Fan a while back that he had no one in the dressing room. He was the type of coach that bag skated you if you lost, and bag skated you if you won - so the players got tired of it. There was never a reward if you did everything right (ie no extra day off on a long road trip).

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12-10-2016, 08:48 AM
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I think you're right here. I thought I heard on the Fan a while back that he had no one in the dressing room. He was the type of coach that bag skated you if you lost, and bag skated you if you won - so the players got tired of it. There was never a reward if you did everything right (ie no extra day off on a long road trip).
It's true, I think the media loved him for his epic sound bites. He is very well spoken and he says things you want to hear. I think he's a very good coach, I think he brilliantly developed a system to his players strengths in the first year and I think he worked very hard. Teams adjusted though and I think when he tried to counter, the room was partly lost. The problem was, its Hartleys way and no one else's. I've always thought of a coach as a master puppeteer. The need to pull the right strings with every player. Some guys you ride hard because they need it (I'm like that), other guys you need to psychologically motivate them and some guys need a mix. This is where I think Bob is lacking and why he has a short shelf life.

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Old
12-10-2016, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OvermanKingGainer View Post
In three words, "shot attempt suppression". Hartley did not buy in to its importance, and Gulutzan does.

5-on-5:
2015-16 Flames: 58.51 CA60
2016-17 Flames: 55.44 CA60

4-on-5
2015-16 Flames: 93.68 CA60
2016-17 Flames: 89.60 CA60

And that's with the Jokipakka-Engelland pair tanking us pretty hard lately (62.35 CA60) and Brouwer being a bigger individual black hole than Kris Russell was last year.
Jokipakka did well with the Flames last year because our system wasn't possession based, so he fit more, as opposed to Dallas' system. This year with our system being possession based, Jokipakka has played worse.

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