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Derek Roy or Jordan Staal to Los Angeles??

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Old
07-08-2009, 07:47 PM
  #51
vecens24
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Originally Posted by SenatorArmy View Post
how about Moller + JJ for Staal though
Closer, definitely the best offer yet. See how the simplest things are often the best? Is Moller defintiely ready to play this year? Or might he need a little more conditioning in the AHL?

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07-08-2009, 07:52 PM
  #52
SenatorArmy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Closer, definitely the best offer yet. See how the simplest things are often the best? Is Moller defintiely ready to play this year? Or might he need a little more conditioning in the AHL?
I think he could surely play a 3rd line center role, but he's no Jordan Staal. The Pens might miss Staals size & defensive play, but if Jack Johnson lives up to his potential this sort of trade could work out for both teams, since L.A. has enough defensive prospects to give up J.J.

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Old
07-08-2009, 08:27 PM
  #53
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We just drafted Schenn and have several perfectly capable centers now. I think the team is pretty happy with the current top 6 and the overall depth at center. I say we give it some time into this upcoming season before we call for Stoll's head. Zues was given a couple years after injury and rebounded, Stoll has only had one and a decent season at that.

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Old
07-08-2009, 08:44 PM
  #54
gambitlebo
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Originally Posted by Ry-Dogg View Post
Jordan Staal has 63 goals in 3 seasons and is only 20 years old right now. This kid gets no respect becasue he's behind Crosby/Malkin, he would be a 1st line player on most teams.
I agree that Staal is underrated and under valued on these boards. While what you said is correct, there is also another side. BECAUSE he plays behind Crosby/Malkin he doesn't have to face the other teams best defensive units. That is why it's so hard to judge how good he really is... How would he do if he was on the 1st or 2nd line with the other teams best guys keying on him game after game? Personally I think he would still be a pretty good player.


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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Johnson's gained a reputation as a money-grubber who's working his way off his 2nd team at age 22, and LA tries to add a bad contract plus ask for a pick to even it out.
How has Johnson's earned a rep as a "money-grubber"? His trade from Carolina to LA had nothing to do with money. He wanted to play in college for longer than Carolina wanted him to, hence the trade. He never asked for a trade nor did he ask for more money. The salary he would have made in Carolina is the same he made in LA, unless college pays more than the NHL, then it had nothing to do with money. Had Carolina been willing to wait, there is a good chance he wouldn't have been traded.

LA has never said they don't want Johnson back. He was involved in trade rumors because the Kings needed a top line winger, not because of money. The gossip girls on this site and others took it as him wanting more money, not the fact that you have to give talent to get talent.

In case you haven't read, DL, the Kings general manager, has said multiple times that the rumor of him wanting $5+ million a year was 100% false. Why would he lie? To get more in a trade? Most smart GM's would ask for conditional picks if not re-signed and would talk to Johnson himself.

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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
I'd say way off given that Staal > Johnson and Handzus is basically a salary dump to us. I'm not sure a trade can really be worked out as Brown is the guy I'd want but their is no way to get him out of LA. Any Trade with the Pens must have them taking on no more Salary and ideally shedding some.
Handzus is a tad overpaid but hardly a salary dump. His defensive play, faceoff wins, shot blocking, leadership, ability to play pretty good defensively, willingness to go to the front of the net and leadership abilities are pretty important. Everyone seems to remember the years where he was dealing with knee problems and have no desire to look at what he did with the Kings last year, his first healthy year in a while, on a 3rd line.

Because Pittsburgh would only do this deal to free up salary is why a trade for Staal would only work if it was for Moller, a prospect, and a pick. Moller can be put back in the minors if Pittsburgh feels he needs more seasoning.

The bad part for LA is they would also have to shed salary so they could re-sign Frolov. With the lack of depth on the left wing, the Kings can't afford to lose him right now, not to mention he is a very good all round player.

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Old
07-08-2009, 09:02 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by CrosbyMalkin View Post
Jordan got 22 goals and 49 points while playing on the 3rd line all year with Cooke and Kennedy and no top unit PP time. Some of you on these boards (even Pens fans) don't realize how good that is. For example lets compare Staal to guys he was drafted ahead of like Toews, Backstrom, and Kessel. Most of you perceive these guys as higher value because of the points they produce. You don't factor in that they play on scoring lines with other great players and get top unit PP time. Even if you don't take into account who they play with, just take out the PP points and you will see Staal's #'s are about equal to those guys even though they have much better linemates. Here is the stats to back it up.

Points not counting PP time

Staal 20 goals and 43 points
Toews 22 goals and 47 points
Backstrom 8 goals and 46 points
Kessel 28 goals and 45 points

Those look like pretty equal #'s and the fact that those 3 play with much better linemates and those lines are supposed to do the scoring. The fact that Staal is putting up equal #'s with Cooke and Kennedy shows who the better player is and he is the best defensive shut down guy of the 4 also. Staal can't help that he is the 3rd center on our team because any center in the NHL would be our 3rd center with those 2 in front of him. You can't just look at #'s when you compare the abilities of a player and have to look at who their linemates are and also things like #1 PP time. The fact that Staal has the same type #'s even strength without having great linemates tells the story. You don't think having AO on his line would push his #'s up. Also Staal is almost a full year younger than Kessel and Backstrom.

Staal is very important to our team and I can't see Shero trading him. Staal's 3rd line shut down several units during the playoffs such as the Carter line and his brothers line. In the finals his line did a great job against the Wings #1 line but he did not get the matchup in the away games because the Wings got the match ups they wanted. Game 6 he shut down the Datsyuk/Zetts line and Staal and Kennedy scored the only 2 Pens goals for the 2-1 win. Staal gives us a 3rd line center that can go up against any teams top lines and shut them down. Staal's 22 goals and 49 points in that type of role is impressive for a 20 year old.
It's easy to bend statistics to make a point.

How about this:
Jordan Staal: 22 Goals, 49 Points, +5 in 82 games, Salary: $4,000,000
Tyler Kennedy: 15 Goals, 35 Points, +15 in 67 games, Salary: $725,000

Since they usually play on the same line, it can be argued that during the 15 games they didn't play together, Staal was a -10 (assumes he was a +15 when playing with Kennedy). Consequently, Kennedy is the shut down player on that line.

Or you can make a value argument by dividing goals or points by their salary. Kennedy is obviously the more valuable player by this method.

You can't always argue goal production when discussing which player is better. Yeah, Staal got 22 goals last year, but are people forgetting when the other Pens were setting him up for empty net goals at the beginning of the season when he was goalless. Granted, a goal is a goal, but that was pure stat padding.

Also don't forget that Staal also would tend to play against the other teams' worst defensive pairing because Crosby and Malkin would draw the better tandems.

If Staal was so good, he should have been wracking up the points.

See, it easy to make stats mean what you want if you don't look at the whole picture.

Quote:
Staal - Frolov + Prospect + 1st 2010
I would take this deal every time. Frolov would be the Pens best winger, and the deal would save them $1.1 million this year that they could use to improve other areas on their team.

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Old
07-08-2009, 11:44 PM
  #56
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Originally Posted by Jeff Goldblum View Post


Looks like he's doing okay here.


He's faaaaakin'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gambitlebo View Post
How has Johnson's earned a rep as a "money-grubber"? His trade from Carolina to LA had nothing to do with money. He wanted to play in college for longer than Carolina wanted him to, hence the trade. He never asked for a trade nor did he ask for more money. The salary he would have made in Carolina is the same he made in LA, unless college pays more than the NHL, then it had nothing to do with money. Had Carolina been willing to wait, there is a good chance he wouldn't have been traded.

LA has never said they don't want Johnson back. He was involved in trade rumors because the Kings needed a top line winger, not because of money. The gossip girls on this site and others took it as him wanting more money, not the fact that you have to give talent to get talent.

In case you haven't read, DL, the Kings general manager, has said multiple times that the rumor of him wanting $5+ million a year was 100% false. Why would he lie? To get more in a trade? Most smart GM's would ask for conditional picks if not re-signed and would talk to Johnson himself.
I didn't say anything about Johnson's problem with Carolina being money, nor did I say anything about JJ wanting 5+ million. But if he wants anything in the remotest vicinity of 5 million at this point, he's out of his gourd.

Regardless, JJ wants everything on his terms - when he makes his NHL debut, dictating RFA terms when he has precious little leverage...thanks, but we'll save ourselves the hassle, especially since the price we're talking about here is a player who's younger and more proven, who's bought into the team philosophy wholesale.

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Old
07-09-2009, 05:39 AM
  #57
wej20
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Originally Posted by gambitlebo View Post
Handzus is a tad overpaid but hardly a salary dump. His defensive play, faceoff wins, shot blocking, leadership, ability to play pretty good defensively, willingness to go to the front of the net and leadership abilities are pretty important. Everyone seems to remember the years where he was dealing with knee problems and have no desire to look at what he did with the Kings last year, his first healthy year in a while, on a 3rd line.

Because Pittsburgh would only do this deal to free up salary is why a trade for Staal would only work if it was for Moller, a prospect, and a pick. Moller can be put back in the minors if Pittsburgh feels he needs more seasoning.

The bad part for LA is they would also have to shed salary so they could re-sign Frolov. With the lack of depth on the left wing, the Kings can't afford to lose him right now, not to mention he is a very good all round player.
Handzus is a Salary Dump for the Pens, when he earns the same as Staal. Trading Staal for Moller,Prospect and a pick doesn't make sense Pens are in win now mode.

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Old
07-09-2009, 05:55 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post


He's faaaaakin'.



I didn't say anything about Johnson's problem with Carolina being money, nor did I say anything about JJ wanting 5+ million. But if he wants anything in the remotest vicinity of 5 million at this point, he's out of his gourd.


Regardless, JJ wants everything on his terms - when he makes his NHL debut, dictating RFA terms when he has precious little leverage...thanks, but we'll save ourselves the hassle, especially since the price we're talking about here is a player who's younger and more proven, who's bought into the team philosophy wholesale.
He doesnt, that was just stupid speculation and it has been shot down by every single established source. Including the GM and Jack himself.

But please, find something else to justify him as being "money-grubbing"

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