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Old
07-13-2009, 04:40 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Then we could give you some cheap roster players for another high salary you'd like to get rid of :

- Schubert (0.883)
- Picard (0.8)
- Donovan (0.625)
- Shannon (0.6)

Shannon and Picard are not bad at all.

But the problem is that the Sens can't take too much salary too. They will have to dump Smith (2.6) somehow, but even then the cap space won't be over 2M$

No way we get rid of Shannon, anyone else is fine, but Shannons play is perfect for Cloustons system, they were meant to be

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07-13-2009, 04:52 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
To get that other Top-4 D-man, you still have many assets to get one. Basically, you gave Erhoff to get Heatley (and Cheechoo but his value is marginal at best now) I dunno trade Michalek for J.Johnson +? That's how you improve your team. Trade 75$ for 100$, then 100$ for 125$... Ever heard of that story of the guy who got a house this way?

For the forwards, you guys have :

Thornton, Marleau, Michalek, Clowe, Setoguchi, Pavelski and Cheechoo as main forwards.

The best option would be for the Sharks (IMO) to trade Michalek and Cheechoo for Heatley. That, you could keep Erhoff but it's even more simplier for the Sharks

So you'd have :

Thornton, Heatley, Marleau, Clowe, Setoguchi, Pavelski as your top-6... ouch?

But there's also other possibilities. The Sharks could choose between Heatley and Marleau long-term

Then, I'd understand if you say : "we'll probably keep Marleau instead of getting Heatley, i think that's what the Sharks wanna do". I don't think i've read that, but sorry if there was, there was so many answers destined to me, i didn't read everything.

I hope we will agree to something soon, it's getting there slowly

OT, Pink Floyd is the first music show i've seen in 1994, it was damn awesome. I hope you have seen them live
Like I said, it's a nice concept but it's not really practical. There aren't any defensemen out there that could be at a comparable cap hit to Ehrhoff and be traded for. Jack Johnson, by all local accounts, is not available from the Kings.

The Michalek and Cheechoo for Heatley makes perfect sense as a premise. The Sharks can easily replace Cheechoo and Heatley would take Michalek's spot on the top six. I'm not certain how management would decide between Marleau and Heatley but it'd be a safe bet that if a deal for Heatley went down, it would be for the purpose of keeping him long-term.

If Ottawa can accept a Michalek + Cheechoo for Heatley premise, the question would be what to add to finish it off. I think Douglas Murray would be too much for Ottawa to take on. That'd be close to 10 mil in space. Best case for the Sharks would be you guys taking Huskins with them but they just signed him to that horrendous deal so that's a slim to none possibility. I would assume a prospect or a pick would be thrown in there.

If another roster player comes from Ottawa, I think Shannon makes a lot of sense to throw in the 4th line center role and Donovan to throw on the wing but it depends on the type of bottom six DW is going for and nobody really has a clue yet because he hasn't done anything yet to address it.

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Old
07-13-2009, 05:46 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Davidhye View Post
And you were saying WE are underrating Heatley... you would agree to a deal like that?
Seriously no...

That's why i was asking something like Heatley + Kelly + Smith (12.2) for Marleau + Cheechoo + Erhoff (12.4) at first but then got flamed away

Then, i've tried to sweeten the deal the best i can, but never enough it seems!

If it was only me, i'd ask for Michalek, Setoguchi and Couture which is not interesting for the Sharks POV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
And if it happens, I hope many of my fellow Sharks fans will join me in lynching Doug Wilson (figuratively and verbally of course). Heck, I wouldn't take Dany Heatley for free, what with his contract size and NTC.

He could be the offensive superstar that he was in the past, but who really wants a cry-baby who's going to whine, complain, and ask for a trade any time the coach doesn't treat him the way he wants or says a harsh word to him? The attitude of players like that infect the locker-room and could end up destroying the development of any young kids on the team. He simply isn't worth having as far as I'm concerned.
To be honest, it's the first time in 5 years in Ottawa that Heatley acted like a dick... It's not like it's going to happen every year...


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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Like I said, it's a nice concept but it's not really practical. There aren't any defensemen out there that could be at a comparable cap hit to Ehrhoff and be traded for. Jack Johnson, by all local accounts, is not available from the Kings.

The Michalek and Cheechoo for Heatley makes perfect sense as a premise. The Sharks can easily replace Cheechoo and Heatley would take Michalek's spot on the top six. I'm not certain how management would decide between Marleau and Heatley but it'd be a safe bet that if a deal for Heatley went down, it would be for the purpose of keeping him long-term.

If Ottawa can accept a Michalek + Cheechoo for Heatley premise, the question would be what to add to finish it off. I think Douglas Murray would be too much for Ottawa to take on. That'd be close to 10 mil in space. Best case for the Sharks would be you guys taking Huskins with them but they just signed him to that horrendous deal so that's a slim to none possibility. I would assume a prospect or a pick would be thrown in there.

If another roster player comes from Ottawa, I think Shannon makes a lot of sense to throw in the 4th line center role and Donovan to throw on the wing but it depends on the type of bottom six DW is going for and nobody really has a clue yet because he hasn't done anything yet to address it.
Heatley + Schubert + Donovan (8.98)

for

Michalek + Cheechoo + Murray (9.83)

Deal if you add Couture (or find something that has some value that could interest us)

You guys save almost 1 M$ and get an upgrade in your top 6. You also get rid of 2 salaries you don't need anymore (i think?) and get 2 cheap players instead. You keep your Marleau and don't even touch your Top-4 D. Isn't great?

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Old
07-13-2009, 06:06 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
If it was only me, i'd ask for Michalek, Setoguchi and Couture
That's straight up insulting.

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Old
07-13-2009, 06:21 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Heatley + Schubert + Donovan (8.98)

for

Michalek + Cheechoo + Murray (9.83)
This makes sense to me. I don't like it, but it's pretty close. I am not a fan of acquiring Heatley, but I am resolved to the fact that it's fairly likely at this point. We know Doug Wilson is interested, and generally when Doug want's somebody he'll do what he has to do to get them.

I was also going to add that we know CBJ is trying to get Ehrhoff, and if Doug is offering him to other teams it's possible he isn't on the table for the Heatley trade for whatever reason. But you accounted for that anyway.

If the Shark's were to make your trade, + an Ehrhoff to CBJ trade like what was offered we'd look something like:

Heatley (7.5) - Thornton (7.2) - Seto (1.3)
Marleau (6.3) - Pavelski (1.6) - Clowe (3.5)
Chimera (1.875) - Mitchell (1) - Mcginn (1)
Staubitz (.75) - Nichol (.75)- Donovan (.65)

Boyle (6.7) - Huskins (?1?)
Blake (3.5) - Vlassic (3.1)
Schubert (.9) - Joslin (.5)

Nabby (5.4)
Greiss (.75)

Total: 55.275m

Leaving us around 1.5m for a spare forward and defensemen.

I'm obviously not including any draft picks for Ehrhoff or Heatley that may be involved (or prospects) just rough numbers here.

It works, barely, but our 3rd pairing defense is pathetic, our 4th line is pretty sad (but better than Shelley - Nichol - Staubitz). Other than that, most of our lines look good or scary on paper.

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Old
07-13-2009, 06:21 PM
  #106
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Heatley + 1st

for

Thornton

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Old
07-13-2009, 06:23 PM
  #107
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Heatley + 1st

for

Thornton
Wilson has already said Joe isn't gonna get traded.

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Old
07-13-2009, 06:25 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
To San Jose: Dany Heatley + Jason Smith (to Worcester), Sean Donovan/Ryan Shannon, Ilya Zubov

To Ottawa: Milan Michalek, Jonathan Cheechoo, Logan Couture, Brad Lukowich
hm... i don't think couture is a dealbreaker. it's possible he's fair game or in play, since the sharks have the choice between any two of thornton, marleau, and pavelski at center. but heatley to san jose would be complicated enough without trying to solve the problem of what to do with cheech at the same time.

if kelly's also considered an AHL toss-in, and given SJ's cap situation he likely would be, 3yrs @2M is significantly more negative trade value than schubert+smith (1 x 3.5M), more than negating the infamous $4M bonus. how does ottawa feel about:
Michalek, Ehrhoff, Lukowich for Heatley, Kelly, Lee?

sens can in essence swap smith and lee for ehrhoff and lukowich. sharks would however need to somehow clear 1.0-1.5M in space (even assuming cheechoo and shelley are dealt for no cap hit) and if they're losing the pieces in the above deal, the candidates to accomplish that with both leave a bitter taste in my mouth: murray or vlasic.

everyone else either has a NTC, was just re-signed (and thus is unlikely to be immediately dealt), or is not really possible to replace for 1M less (e.g. devin setoguchi at 1.247, derek joslin at 0.516). thus why i think heatley to san jose means
a) marleau is gone
b) two of ehrhoff, murray, and vlasic are gone - even if Dmen come back in the resulting deals
c) both of the above

in conclusion, i would choose d) none of the above. i'd rather try to work something out with ottawa regarding some of their younger forwards after they deal heatley to someone else, depending on what their situation looks like then. the kicker is that it would have been completely feasible if huskins were signed to a more sane 1M-ish per year and clowe more in the area of 3M. DW pretty much pulled his name from heatley consideration with those deals being 1.7 and 3.625 respectively.

p.s. hockeyball, the roster you posted above is more like 55.8M due to your rounding... and i don't want to believe huskins at 1.7 either, but that's what it looks like it is. 55.8M means 1M in space which is not really enough for two reserves and injury replacement space. that 3rd pairing is brutal unless joslin is vlasic 2.0, but if that's the direction DW will go, ehrhoff has to return someone cheaper than chimera (1.3 tops). does DW have seidenberg and peca at 1M each in his pocket or something?


Last edited by baydrake: 07-13-2009 at 06:34 PM.
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Old
07-13-2009, 06:29 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
To be honest, it's the first time in 5 years in Ottawa that Heatley acted like a dick... It's not like it's going to happen every year...
It's not the fact that it's happening now, it's the attitude and mindset that it reveals. Heatley demanded, and got, a very large contract from the Sens with a NTC, because he said he wanted to stay there. But as soon he ended up playing under a coach who didn't treat him the way he wanted to be treated, who asked more of him (by all reports in the middle of this last season), he decided that rather than being a professional and honoring to contract he signed, he was going to ask for a trade. And then he had the gall to say he would only be traded to certain teams, and when Ottawa did find a deal they found acceptable and that saved them $4 milliion, he refused to waive his NTC.

Everything about that scenario speaks of a petulant child of a player. No matter how skilled he is, that type of attitude is going to have an affect. And who's to say he wouldn't come to Sharks, not like the way Todd McLellan demands he play defense too, and demand another trade?

He is simply not worth having at this point. It's too bad the NHL doesn't allow teams to specify one player who would be exempt from waivers so that they could stick him down in the AHL for a while to remind him of what a good life he has in the NHL and that maybe he should suck it up and not be such a cry-baby. But either way, Ottawa is stuck with him right now, and I'm hoping the Sharks are never stuck with him in the future.

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07-13-2009, 09:10 PM
  #110
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According to the Sens blogger on HockeyBuzz, the only team with an offer on the table for Heatley remains Edmonton. With Minny "working hard to get an offer out" (what the heck does that mean??).

This would cast some doubts on the Sharks-Ottawa trade rumors. Anyone know if this guy is at all reliable?

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Mark-...mmer/121/22116

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Old
07-13-2009, 10:53 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Anyone know if this guy is at all reliable?

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Mark-...mmer/121/22116
i honestly cant remember him ever getting anything right. Also, whenever he talks about our prospects, he still seems to think hennessy is a legit prospect.

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Old
07-13-2009, 11:21 PM
  #112
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This would cast some doubts on the Sharks-Ottawa trade rumors. Anyone know if this guy is at all reliable?
Doesn't really mean anything either way.If Doug is clearing space, it is to make an offer, which means he wouldn't have made one yet. You don't make an offer until your ready to follow through. I'm sure he's had discussions about what they are looking for, just nothing on paper yet.

Then again, it could all be total BS, but it makes sense.

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Old
07-13-2009, 11:34 PM
  #113
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A player who disappears in the playoffs for a player who disappears in the playoffs. Just what both teams really need. A match made in heaven.

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07-13-2009, 11:36 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Doesn't really mean anything either way.If Doug is clearing space, it is to make an offer, which means he wouldn't have made one yet. You don't make an offer until your ready to follow through. I'm sure he's had discussions about what they are looking for, just nothing on paper yet.

Then again, it could all be total BS, but it makes sense.
But would DW really clear that amount of space space if he wasn't sure that Murray would accept the offer, and that Heatley would approve his NTC waiver? It might be an offer that's been made contingent on DW clearing the space.. but it would still be an offer.

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Old
07-13-2009, 11:45 PM
  #115
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A player who disappears in the playoffs for a player who disappears in the playoffs. Just what both teams really need. A match made in heaven.
That's such a false statement.

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Old
07-13-2009, 11:51 PM
  #116
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That's such a false statement.
Yeah, Marleau doesn't disappear in the playoffs.

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Old
07-14-2009, 02:59 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
This makes sense to me. I don't like it, but it's pretty close. I am not a fan of acquiring Heatley, but I am resolved to the fact that it's fairly likely at this point. We know Doug Wilson is interested, and generally when Doug want's somebody he'll do what he has to do to get them.

I was also going to add that we know CBJ is trying to get Ehrhoff, and if Doug is offering him to other teams it's possible he isn't on the table for the Heatley trade for whatever reason. But you accounted for that anyway.

If the Shark's were to make your trade, + an Ehrhoff to CBJ trade like what was offered we'd look something like:

Heatley (7.5) - Thornton (7.2) - Seto (1.3)
Marleau (6.3) - Pavelski (1.6) - Clowe (3.5)
Chimera (1.875) - Mitchell (1) - Mcginn (1)
Staubitz (.75) - Nichol (.75)- Donovan (.65)

Boyle (6.7) - Huskins (?1?)
Blake (3.5) - Vlasic (3.1)
Schubert (.9) - Joslin (.5)

Nabby (5.4)
Greiss (.75)

Total: 55.275m

Leaving us around 1.5m for a spare forward and defensemen.

I'm obviously not including any draft picks for Ehrhoff or Heatley that may be involved (or prospects) just rough numbers here.

It works, barely, but our 3rd pairing defense is pathetic, our 4th line is pretty sad (but better than Shelley - Nichol - Staubitz). Other than that, most of our lines look good or scary on paper.
IMO, that would be good for San Jose, but you guys would only get Chimera for Erhoff??? But I'd understand you'd need to get rid of one more salary to make it work. Too bad the Sens don't have more cap space to take more salary out of your hands

According to the site i use (capgeek : http://www.capgeek.com/cap_calculator.php?Team=3), this is the Sharks situation after that deal with the Sens :

2009-2010 San Jose Sharks

FORWARDS
Dany Heatley $7,500,000
Joe Thornton $7,200,000
Patrick Marleau $6,300,000
Ryane Clowe $3,625,000
Joe Pavelski $1,637,500
Devin Setoguchi $1,246,666
Jamie McGinn $996,666
Jody Shelley $725,000
Shean Donovan $625,000

DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle $6,666,666
Rob Blake $3,500,000
Marc-Edouard Vlasic $3,100,000
Christian Ehrhoff $3,100,000
Kent Huskins $1,700,000
Brad Lukowich $1,566,666
Christoph Schubert $883,333

GOALTENDERS
Evgeni Nabokov $5,375,000

ROSTER SIZE 17

PAYROLL $55,747,497

BONUSES $740,000

CAP ROOM $1,792,503

You'd have 1.792M$ to fill 3 bottom-line rosters spots and the back-up goalie spot... So, it's still very close, need another trade...

Heatley (7.5) - Thornton (7.2) - Setoguchi (1.246)
Marleau (6.3) - Pavelski (1.637) - Clowe (3.625)
McGinn (0.996) - Mitchell (?) - Staubitz (?)
??? - Shelley (0.725) - Donovan (0.625)

Boyle (6.666) - Ehrhoff (3.1)
Blake (3.5) - Vlasic (3.1)
Lukowich (1.566) - Huskins (1.7)
Schubert (0.883)

Nabokov (5.375)
Greiss (?)

RFAs :

Greiss
Staubitz
Mitchell

Top-2 lines are deadly and defense/goaltending is very solid. Problem is depht on line 3 and 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidhye View Post
That's straight up insulting.
That's why i said if it was only me
I know it's a pipe dream


Last edited by Xspyrit: 07-14-2009 at 03:05 AM.
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Old
07-14-2009, 03:10 AM
  #118
Rickety Cricket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
IMO, that would be good for San Jose, but you guys would only get Chimera for Erhoff??? But I'd understand you'd need to get rid of one more salary to make it work. Too bad the Sens don't have more cap space to take more salary out of your hands

According to the site i use (capgeek : http://www.capgeek.com/cap_calculator.php?Team=3), this is the Sharks situation after that deal with the Sens :

2009-2010 San Jose Sharks

FORWARDS
Dany Heatley $7,500,000
Joe Thornton $7,200,000
Patrick Marleau $6,300,000
Ryane Clowe $3,625,000
Joe Pavelski $1,637,500
Devin Setoguchi $1,246,666
Jamie McGinn $996,666
Jody Shelley $725,000
Shean Donovan $625,000

DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle $6,666,666
Rob Blake $3,500,000
Marc-Edouard Vlasic $3,100,000
Christian Ehrhoff $3,100,000
Kent Huskins $1,700,000
Brad Lukowich $1,566,666
Christoph Schubert $883,333

GOALTENDERS
Evgeni Nabokov $5,375,000

ROSTER SIZE 17

PAYROLL $55,747,497

BONUSES $740,000

CAP ROOM $1,792,503

You'd have 1.792M$ to fill 3 bottom-line rosters spots and the back-up goalie spot... So, it's still very close, need another trade...

Heatley (7.5) - Thornton (7.2) - Setoguchi (1.246)
Marleau (6.3) - Pavelski (1.637) - Clowe (3.625)
McGinn (0.996) - Mitchell (?) - Staubitz (?)
??? - Shelley (0.725) - Donovan (0.625)

Boyle (6.666) - Ehrhoff (3.1)
Blake (3.5) - Vlasic (3.1)
Lukowich (1.566) - Huskins (1.7)
Schubert (0.883)

Nabokov (5.375)
Greiss (?)

RFAs :

Greiss
Staubitz
Mitchell

Top-2 lines are deadly and defense/goaltending is very solid. Problem is depht on line 3 and 4



That's why i said if it was only me
I know it's a pipe dream
Thats actually been quite a big problem for the Sharks the past few years.

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