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Perception of Duby and Cally

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Old
07-09-2009, 04:33 PM
  #1
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Perception of Duby and Cally

Reading this forum, it is very difficult to figure out how you guys feel about Dubinsky and Callahan. FOR THE MOST PART, in trade proposals there is a refusal to part with these guys unless the return is astronomical. However when it comes to assembling the roster, there is a GENERAL feeling that these guys should not be in the top 6.

Now let me get out my viewpoint...First I'll say that I do not put much stock in depth charts aka mapping out the lines. What I do believe is that Callahan and Dubinsky should be on the ice as much as possible. Maybe they arent your prototypical high-scoring forward but didnt we see them in the playoffs go toe-to-toe with the best offensive forwards in the league. These guys are such great competitors, can be such great leaders, have such a desire to win its incredible.

I hate how a lot of fans don't realize that a winning team can be built with these two as main pieces. Not the sole main pieces and not being paid 6-7M apiece but they can be two of your top 6 forwards in terms of ice time and I want them out there in the most critical situations.

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07-09-2009, 04:35 PM
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RMcDonagh
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They both undoubtedly should be in the top six.

But throw out "lines" for a minute and relate to the TOI sheet and they both will be getting 16-20 minutes a night on average which will be our top forwards. So, there ya go.

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07-09-2009, 04:36 PM
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IMO they are both 2nd liners. Dubinsky, to me, should center the line with Gaborik while Drury can center a line with Callahan and Kotalik, leaving Higgins as the opposite winger to Gaborik. Pretty even, hard-working lines.

They have the skill and the work ethic, it is just a matter of time IMO until they break out and become 55-65 point players which is where I think they will be come their prime years.

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07-09-2009, 04:36 PM
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They're not top tier offensive guys obviously, but I think they bring a complete game that make the more valuable than their offensive statistics alone.

A good team needs players like that to make up its core, in my opinion.

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07-09-2009, 04:38 PM
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I completely agree. I think they are indespensible character guys and comprise a big part of the heart and soul of the team. I want them on the ice and I most certainly want them locked up and on the roster. Although, personally, I'm happy with Dubinsky centering Gaborik and I wouldn't mind Callahan on the off-wing on that line and if not than on the 2nd line.

I could see this:

Callahan - Dubinsky - Gaborik
Higgins - Drury - Kotalik
Avery - Anisimov - Grachev/Korpikoski/Z (whichever ends up on the team)
Brashear - Boyle - Byers

Switch Avery and Higgins if you want to give Anisimov a bigger scoring threat on the wing and roll the "2nd" and "3rd" line equally. Like a 1, 2a, 2b, 4 system. I could also see Grachev or Anisimov getting a shot at the top line with Gaborik, depending on how they perform.

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07-09-2009, 04:59 PM
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Dubinsky I see as a guy who maxes at about 60 points. Big, strong, gritty, physical, cycles well--will fight and fight for teammates (though I hope he learns to fight better), will be able to play pwp and pk--center or wing. Has leadership qualities.

Callahan--is well rounded as well though I think his max would be more in the 50 point range. He tends to shoot too much. Not as good a playmaker as Dubinsky. Very gritty for his size though and a better defensive player and penalty killer than Dubinsky.

Both of these guys are hard chargers--gamers. They don't drive their coaches nuts. You need guys like that to win. What we lack are elite offensive players--but maybe Gaborik will put us back in the picture a little bit.

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07-09-2009, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Kovalchkin71 View Post
I completely agree. I think they are indespensible character guys and comprise a big part of the heart and soul of the team. I want them on the ice and I most certainly want them locked up and on the roster. Although, personally, I'm happy with Dubinsky centering Gaborik and I wouldn't mind Callahan on the off-wing on that line and if not than on the 2nd line.

I could see this:

Callahan - Dubinsky - Gaborik
Higgins - Drury - Kotalik
Avery - Anisimov - Grachev/Korpikoski/Z (whichever ends up on the team)
Brashear - Boyle - Byers

Switch Avery and Higgins if you want to give Anisimov a bigger scoring threat on the wing and roll the "2nd" and "3rd" line equally. Like a 1, 2a, 2b, 4 system. I could also see Grachev or Anisimov getting a shot at the top line with Gaborik, depending on how they perform.
I like this but Grachev is just one year away from making the big club. Don't go nuts on me for this and I don't even know if the players would do it but how would you feel giving dubinsky 10 years 30 mill and cally 10 years 27 mill both players would be financially set for life and live out the good life in nyr with a small cap hit if they develop into the players we think they should be. Thoughts?

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07-09-2009, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyko1827 View Post
I like this but Grachev is just one year away from making the big club. Don't go nuts on me for this and I don't even know if the players would do it but how would you feel giving dubinsky 10 years 30 mill and cally 10 years 27 mill both players would be financially set for life and live out the good life in nyr with a small cap hit if they develop into the players we think they should be. Thoughts?
thats an interesting concept and it would have to be structured very specifically, i would probably try and front-load it to a certain extent to improve their trade value if they don't develop the way we want, but still interesting

but there is no ****ing way they do this

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07-09-2009, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Crash the Net View Post
They both undoubtedly should be in the top six.

But throw out "lines" for a minute and relate to the TOI sheet and they both will be getting 16-20 minutes a night on average which will be our top forwards. So, there ya go.
Maybe under Renney. These guys will both be getting over 20 minutes a night under Torts as long as they are in shape and continue playing as hard as they did last year.

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07-09-2009, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Soks45 View Post
thats an interesting concept and it would have to be structured very specifically, i would probably try and front-load it to a certain extent to improve their trade value if they don't develop the way we want, but still interesting

but there is no ****ing way they do this
still a 2.7 and 3 mill cap hit arent all that bad even if they only turn out to be 45 pointers

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07-09-2009, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by kyko1827 View Post
still a 2.7 and 3 mill cap hit arent all that bad even if they only turn out to be 45 pointers
i didn't say i thought it was necessarily a terrible idea i just think it's a little to out there for sather to think up, offer, and cally/dubi accept. any of those guys might not like it simply because no midlevel talent has been approached this way, and they don't know how to react.

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07-09-2009, 05:54 PM
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Good post MSG. I personally don't understand why so many posters fell the same way about these two players. I love em...and totally feel that both are worth of top 6 honors. Maybe Dubi somewhat more than Cally.

In Dubinsky, I see a player who is not only worthy of top 6 icetime...but IMO he is the best center on the team right now. He's responsible in his own end, and at 6'1"215lbs he's the only physical presence over 6ft in the Rangers top 6. Something that weighs heavy in the Eastern conference, expecially when you consider the young talent level that other clubs have in thier top 6...Richards, Carter, Crosby, Overchkin, Malkin, Stamkos...now Tavares to deal with. Dubisnky IMO is more than capable of top line duties, and if given a potential all-star linemate in a guy like Gaborik, and more importantly the icetime...I see big things from him this year. 60pt season for him at least. Look at some of the players that were mentioned in the blogs over the past couple weeks. Koivu and Marleau in particular. While I think both are very good players, I don't think either at this stage of the game carry more worth than Dubinsky does...especially when you factor in size, salary, and more importantly age. Take a look at the numbers in thier first three seasons. Both Marleau and Koivu put up similar stats to what Dubi did in his first few seasons. Now, Dubi has a linemate in Gaborik that IMO is a potential superstar that can give this club a real first line with potential to tear it up in the East.

In Callahan I see one of the best waterbug's in the league. What was he 4th in the league in hits this past season? Pretty impressive when you take size into consideration. Can't teach his moxy...either you have it or you don't. And Callahan certainly has it. If you had to grade Callahan on his skills alone, IMO he is very close to being a top 6 player. That is factoring in skating, hands, hockey sense, etc...but when you take into consideration his tenacity...that puts him over the top. IMO he's a very good candidate for top 6 minutes, and wheter that is with Dubinsky and Gaborik, or with Drury and Kotalik...either way you slice it. Either way you slice, any combo...I agree he too is a player worthy of top 6 minutes.

I totally agree with your point here. The Rangers can put a winning team on the ice with these two as components...I also feel that these two may be the two most valuable forwardss the club has in relation to thier cap-hit's and age.

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07-09-2009, 06:00 PM
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Trading either for anything less than a superstar would be unfathomably stupid. Both should be staples on this team's second line for the next decade, at least. Both should be signed to long-term deals as fast as possible.

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07-09-2009, 06:00 PM
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They are the type of players that you build on. Core type guys.

Won't shatter any records, or notch too many points. But good enough to play 15+ minutes a night, and contribute on both ends of the ice.

Dubinsky and Callahan is the perfect second-line combo for us, imo. Throw Higgins, or Avery on the left-side, and they'll do a little bit of everything. Hit, Fight, Score, Defend. They have the speed to keep up with anything, and are physical enough where they won't be outmuscled.

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07-09-2009, 06:07 PM
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#1 They're not done developing. They will be good here for a long time. Put em in a deal for this guy or that, the new guys are ok here for a short period then gone or over the hill. Just because someone isn't top 6 right this second, doesn't mean they won't get there.

#2 Not everything is points. They play the game the right way. They will have more to do with winning games than guys who get 20 more points in a season.

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07-09-2009, 06:18 PM
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#2 Not everything is points. They play the game the right way. They will have more to do with winning games than guys who get 20 more points in a season.
yes Yes YES!

Someone ******* gets it.

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07-09-2009, 06:34 PM
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They aren't dynamic players, but they're the guys that help you win

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07-09-2009, 06:39 PM
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3 forwards I like unreservedly on this team. Dubinsky, Avery and Callahan. Hope to add Anisimov, Korpikoski and Grachev to that list soon. Possibility exists also for Boyle, Higgins and Byers as well someday--also Kreider and Stepan.

Gaborik is the key right now though.

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07-09-2009, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
#1 They're not done developing. They will be good here for a long time. Put em in a deal for this guy or that, the new guys are ok here for a short period then gone or over the hill. Just because someone isn't top 6 right this second, doesn't mean they won't get there.

#2 Not everything is points.
They play the game the right way. They will have more to do with winning games than guys who get 20 more points in a season.
While I agree with that...at the same time somebody has to score. I'm not saying these two can't or won't, but if we're calling them top 6 guys then imo by definition they have to put points on the board.

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07-09-2009, 06:45 PM
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While I agree with that...at the same time somebody has to score. I'm not saying these two can't or won't, but if we're calling them top 6 guys then imo by definition they have to put points on the board.
If we could get 50-60 points from a Higgins - Dubinsky - Callahan line all while bringing the grit, heart, and intensity that they all base their game on, I'll gladly roll that 2nd line for the next decade.

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07-09-2009, 06:49 PM
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I'm looking forward to seeing Torts "sink his teeth" into these guys. Just get them signed already.

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07-09-2009, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by kyko1827 View Post
I like this but Grachev is just one year away from making the big club. Don't go nuts on me for this and I don't even know if the players would do it but how would you feel giving dubinsky 10 years 30 mill and cally 10 years 27 mill both players would be financially set for life and live out the good life in nyr with a small cap hit if they develop into the players we think they should be. Thoughts?

It's funny, but I actually thought of this earlier today. Why not? I would be all for our GM having the creativity to at least *offer* this to the guys right now. Just saying "you know, if you don't like this idea, we're more than happy to draw up something more conventional, but we see you as an integral part of this team's core and would love to keep you around for as long as possible" and offering something along the lines of what you suggested; what's the worst that could happen?

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07-09-2009, 08:26 PM
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Why would Cally or Dubi take a deal like that? I mean they are about to get 2+ million right now for 1 year. They'll be at 2.7M or whatever in another year, perhaps two at the most. For the remaining 7 years of their contracts they would likely be grossly underpaid. That is unless they are going to be career 3M players.

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07-09-2009, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Why would Cally or Dubi take a deal like that? I mean they are about to get 2+ million right now for 1 year. They'll be at 2.7M or whatever in another year, perhaps two at the most. For the remaining 7 years of their contracts they would likely be grossly underpaid. That is unless they are going to be career 3M players.
Cally's base this year was &575k and Dubi's was $635k or about there. Do you really think they are going to get 3-4x raises? If Cally goes to arbitration, I highly doubt the arbitrator will award him that, and I really don't think Slats will hand Dubi that kind of raise. My guess is that they both wind up in the $1.5 to $.175MM range, maybe even lower.

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07-09-2009, 08:52 PM
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Cally's base this year was &575k and Dubi's was $635k or about there. Do you really think they are going to get 3-4x raises? If Cally goes to arbitration, I highly doubt the arbitrator will award him that, and I really don't think Slats will hand Dubi that kind of raise. My guess is that they both wind up in the $1.5 to $.175MM range, maybe even lower.
I agree and I think it's fair as well. It's about what Girardi did after his first contract. I think you want to see them realizing their potential more before you give them the bigger contracts.

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