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Proposal: Toronto and Chicago.

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Old
07-09-2009, 09:48 PM
  #1
Cleatus
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Proposal: Toronto and Chicago.

To Chicago: Tomas Kaberle, Ian White, a 2011 1st round draft pick, and a 2010 3rd round draft pick.
To Toronto: Brian Campbell, Patrick Sharp, and a 2010 2nd round draft pick.

Chicago clears a ton of cap-space, gains a couple of good defenseman, obtains Toronto's 1st round draft pick in 2011 and their 3rd round draft pick in 2010. Toronto gets a first-line forward, an expensive replacement for Kaberle, and a 2nd round draft pick in 2010.

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07-09-2009, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
To Chicago: Tomas Kaberle, Ian White, a 2011 1st round draft pick, and a 2010 3rd round draft pick.
To Toronto: Brian Campbell, Patrick Sharp, and a 2010 2nd round draft pick.

Chicago clears a ton of cap-space, gains a couple of good defenseman, obtains Toronto's 1st round draft pick in 2011 and their 3rd round draft pick in 2010. Toronto gets a first-line forward, an expensive replacement for Kaberle, and a 2nd round draft pick in 2010.
Counter:

Tor gets - Campbell, versteeg, '11 3rd rounder
Chi gets - kaberle, '10 1st rounder


we don't need two Dmen, or a 1st rounder 2 years from now, which will probably be middle of the round so won't be worth as much as it will next year. Also, sharp isn't available.

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Old
07-09-2009, 10:53 PM
  #3
Cleatus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedcubbieblue View Post
Counter:

Tor gets - Campbell, versteeg, '11 3rd rounder
Chi gets - kaberle, '10 1st rounder


we don't need two Dmen, or a 1st rounder 2 years from now, which will probably be middle of the round so won't be worth as much as it will next year. Also, sharp isn't available.
How about this...

To Chicago: Tomas Kaberle, a 2011 1st round draft pick, and a 2010 3rd round draft pick.
To Toronto: Brian Campbell, Kris Versteeg, and a 2010 2nd round draft pick.

However, what makes you say Patrick Sharp is unavailable? Lately, there's been plenty of speculation about him being on the trade block.

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Old
07-09-2009, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
However, what makes you say Patrick Sharp is unavailable? Lately, there's been plenty of speculation about him being on the trade block.
Speculation is the key word there. Sharp isn't going anywhere. He's our veteran leader on this team. If any, Versteeg or Byfuglien are more likely to leave as salary cap casualties next offseason. This is of course if Campbell doesn't get moved, which I doubt will happen.

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Old
07-09-2009, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedcubbieblue View Post
Counter:

Tor gets - Campbell, versteeg, '11 3rd rounder
Chi gets - kaberle, '10 1st rounder


we don't need two Dmen, or a 1st rounder 2 years from now, which will probably be middle of the round so won't be worth as much as it will next year. Also, sharp isn't available.
Why exactly would the leafs give up the first in a good draft year. You don't need two dmen and we don't need Campbell. There is no way Campbell ever wears a leafs jersey. He's the Hawks mistake and they'll be dealing with it for 7 more years. Oh and this trade would put us over the cap. So yeah we'll keep the better dman and better pick and you can keep Versteeg

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Old
07-10-2009, 02:35 AM
  #6
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I would trade Sharp, not Versteeg. Versteeg has the potential to get a lot better than Sharp.

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Old
07-10-2009, 08:21 AM
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I like getting the Leafs first rounder next year. Aside from that pass, just because I don't want to lose Sharp.

Sharp's name is out there in trade talks, though. He is not untouchable.

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Old
07-10-2009, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by khawk20 View Post
I like getting the Leafs first rounder next year. Aside from that pass, just because I don't want to lose Sharp.
Not happening unless you blow our socks off.

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Old
07-10-2009, 11:00 AM
  #9
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Toronto doesn't want Campbell, nor do I understand why we would offer our 1st when his contract is huge lol...no offense to blackhawk fans, but I am sure you know where I am coming from.

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Old
07-10-2009, 01:55 PM
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Campell and Versteeg for Kaberle. Simple usually works out better.

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07-10-2009, 02:01 PM
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Campbell is an equivalent player to Kaberle, and how would the Hawks replace Sharp's 30 goals.

Have to say no.

Plus Campbell may be overpaid but he's a good player. I don't feel any urgency to move him until we know what the salary cap will be for '10-'11.

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07-10-2009, 02:40 PM
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If we can move Versteeg and Campbell that's over ten million for Kaberle's 4.25 then we can give Tanguay a one year contract for 5ish.

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Old
07-10-2009, 03:41 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwissBlackHawk27 View Post
I would trade Sharp, not Versteeg. Versteeg has the potential to get a lot better than Sharp.
We're trying to win the Cup THIS year. Keeping someone who has "potential" instead of someone who is already "there" will not help us do that.

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Old
07-10-2009, 03:42 PM
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Does not make sense from toronto to give up our best trading chip and to take Brian Campbell's Horrid contract back. Even Versteeg+Campbell would be a big NO from toronto.

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Old
07-12-2009, 05:39 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarmerAmonteSeabrook View Post
We're trying to win the Cup THIS year. Keeping someone who has "potential" instead of someone who is already "there" will not help us do that.
Last years stat line...
Sharp: 26 Goals 18 Assists 44 points on 184 shots he was a +6
Versteeg: 22 Goals 31 Assists 53 Points on 139 shots he was a +15

Versteeg, is younger, has another year under his belt, 4 less goals which i bet he will get those 4 extra this year, more assists, more overall points, on less shots, and was a better defender according to his +/-. why in the world would you trade an electric player that can score goals as well as set people up whom is only 23 years old...why in the world would we do that? Just to dump cap? We can dump cap elsewhere. And keep our young core while doing so...

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Old
07-12-2009, 05:51 PM
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But, dont get me wrong, do i think we should trade Sharp, NO! Do i think someone will have to go, Yes. We cant have our cake and eat it too. Some players with a decent cap hit will have to go, But, Trading Campbell and Versteeg or Sharp, for Kaberle would be a huge Mistake. Especially if we are going for the cup this year. Kaberle is a similar player to Campbell, and we would be dumping 1 of our top 6 Forwards. And for you Toronto fans, you would love to have Versteeg or Sharp, with Campbell if you could and it only cost you Kaberle and a pick which probably wont be top 10...

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Old
07-14-2009, 01:13 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuffBomb33 View Post
Last years stat line...
Sharp: 26 Goals 18 Assists 44 points on 184 shots he was a +6
Versteeg: 22 Goals 31 Assists 53 Points on 139 shots he was a +15

Versteeg, is younger, has another year under his belt, 4 less goals which i bet he will get those 4 extra this year, more assists, more overall points, on less shots, and was a better defender according to his +/-. why in the world would you trade an electric player that can score goals as well as set people up whom is only 23 years old...why in the world would we do that? Just to dump cap? We can dump cap elsewhere. And keep our young core while doing so...
Sharp only played 61 games this year due to his injury. Versteeg played 78. Sharp is much better defensively than Versteeg, did you actually watch them play or are you just basing it off plus/minus? If Sharp would've played a full season, he would've been on the ice for quite a few more goals so his plus/minus obviously would be at least equal and more likely HIGHER than Versteeg's. Sharp taking more shots than Versteeg (in less games) only clearly indicates that he shoots WAY WAY more than Versteeg, and Versteeg only taking 139 shots in 78 games just means that he doesn't shoot much and even moreso, when he takes those shots it's likely only when he has a clear shot on goal. Again, if you watched them play, Versteeg is sort of a dangler type and Sharp is a gritty sniper. You're just rolling off stats to support a theory you have which doesn't seem to have much actual research behind it...

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Old
07-14-2009, 11:11 AM
  #18
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I'll counter you this:

Kaberle, Ponikarovsky, 3rd

for

Campbell, Byfuglien, Beach, 1st

I know before I hear anything people are going to scream, however, I'll give my reasoning:

1) Hawks save $4M this season, if they don't re-sign Poni, they have $6M available next year. Given they have to re-sign their top 3 players (Keith, Kane and Toews), these savings cover off one of those guys at least.

2) Kaberle vs Campbell is a wash in terms of what they bring to the table. The difference of course is $3M on a long contract. Personally I wouldn't want to touch it with a ten foot pole, however, if there were something extra to entice me, given the Leafs cap space, I'd consider it.

3) Ponikarovsky vs Byfuglien is again a bit of a wash. Poni produces at around a 20 goal pace every year, Byfuglien is in that range too. Both put up lots of hits, are decent defensively...Poni's a better shot blocker. Poni is also cheaper though only under contract for one more year.

4) Beach + 1st vs 3rd - This would be the extra enticement referred to in point #2. Toronto HAS to receive something for eating all that cap money while getting no upgrade in player. Given that Chicago's 1st will likely be in the 20-30 range, it isn't much of a pick. Beach however could potentially be a #1 or #2 line player that fits the Burke type mold.

At the end of the day, Chicago experiences zero decline in talent (important in their push for a cup) but potentially frees up $6M to put towards Kane, Toews and Keith (so their cup push can last longer than 1 year).

Toronto experiences zero decline in talent (retains a puck mover to aid with their very defensive core) and eats a contract in return for a potential 1st liner they need.

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Old
07-14-2009, 01:32 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
I'll counter you this:

Kaberle, Ponikarovsky, 3rd

for

Campbell, Byfuglien, Beach, 1st

I know before I hear anything people are going to scream, however, I'll give my reasoning:

1) Hawks save $4M this season, if they don't re-sign Poni, they have $6M available next year. Given they have to re-sign their top 3 players (Keith, Kane and Toews), these savings cover off one of those guys at least.

2) Kaberle vs Campbell is a wash in terms of what they bring to the table. The difference of course is $3M on a long contract. Personally I wouldn't want to touch it with a ten foot pole, however, if there were something extra to entice me, given the Leafs cap space, I'd consider it.

3) Ponikarovsky vs Byfuglien is again a bit of a wash. Poni produces at around a 20 goal pace every year, Byfuglien is in that range too. Both put up lots of hits, are decent defensively...Poni's a better shot blocker. Poni is also cheaper though only under contract for one more year.

4) Beach + 1st vs 3rd - This would be the extra enticement referred to in point #2. Toronto HAS to receive something for eating all that cap money while getting no upgrade in player. Given that Chicago's 1st will likely be in the 20-30 range, it isn't much of a pick. Beach however could potentially be a #1 or #2 line player that fits the Burke type mold.

At the end of the day, Chicago experiences zero decline in talent (important in their push for a cup) but potentially frees up $6M to put towards Kane, Toews and Keith (so their cup push can last longer than 1 year).

Toronto experiences zero decline in talent (retains a puck mover to aid with their very defensive core) and eats a contract in return for a potential 1st liner they need.
No matter how you rationalize it, we don't want Poni or that trade

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Old
07-14-2009, 02:11 PM
  #20
eyeball11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaliFawks View Post
No matter how you rationalize it, we don't want Poni or that trade
That's your choice. It's also your choice to be burdened with one of the worst contracts in the league and having to re-sign your 3 best players. At the end of the day, the trade amounts to potentially:

Kaberle, Toews/Keith/Kane, Ponikarovsky (for one year) and a 3rd

for

An anchor contract, a guy who hasn't surpassed 36 points, a prospect many pundits are afraid could bust or boom and a very late 1st round pick.

I'll be very surprised if you do better than that on a deal (unless Bob Gainey is still taking his stupid pills).

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Old
07-14-2009, 02:15 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
That's your choice. It's also your choice to be burdened with one of the worst contracts in the league and having to re-sign your 3 best players. At the end of the day, the trade amounts to potentially:

Kaberle, Toews/Keith/Kane, Ponikarovsky (for one year) and a 3rd

for

An anchor contract, a guy who hasn't surpassed 36 points, a prospect many pundits are afraid could bust or boom and a very late 1st round pick.

I'll be very surprised if you do better than that on a deal (unless Bob Gainey is still taking his stupid pills).
I am not saying we don't want to make room under the cap for these guys next year, but this is not our only option. We have a season where we can trade a number of individuals to any number of teams, and I do feel over that time we can find a better fit than your initial proposal.

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Old
07-14-2009, 05:26 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaliFawks View Post
No matter how you rationalize it, we don't want Poni or that trade
at least you feel the name as leaf fans about it. WE ARE NOT TRADING THOMAS KABERLE, OUR BEST TRADE BAIT AND TAKING BACK BRIAN CAMPBELL AND HIS ALBATROSS CONTRACT

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Old
07-14-2009, 05:35 PM
  #23
eyeball11
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Originally Posted by HaliFawks View Post
I am not saying we don't want to make room under the cap for these guys next year, but this is not our only option. We have a season where we can trade a number of individuals to any number of teams, and I do feel over that time we can find a better fit than your initial proposal.

It's possible though I don't see great returns for Chicago. The trade I proposed allows them to keep their skill levels at each position while being able to re-sign some of their big 3. That's all they can ask for going forward. They've got to make some tough choices. While Versteeg may be a piece of interest to many teams, if I was Chicago, I'd rather trade Byfuglien and keep Versteeg.

Hossa, Toews, Kane, Versteeg going forward is pretty strong. It will be interesting to see what they choose.

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Old
07-14-2009, 06:49 PM
  #24
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i'm a huge Leafs fan and I would give up Kaberle and our 1st rounder next year for Brian Campbell alone. He is a generational talent that I have not witnessed in a long time.

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Old
07-14-2009, 07:18 PM
  #25
eyeball11
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Originally Posted by TheRealBanjo View Post
i'm a huge Leafs fan and I would give up Kaberle and our 1st rounder next year for Brian Campbell alone. He is a generational talent that I have not witnessed in a long time.
If he was a "generational talent", one would assume he would produce more than others of his generation, no?

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