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D Seth Jones - Portland Winterhawks (2013 Draft)

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05-27-2013, 11:15 AM
  #851
Renegade Stylings
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Still have him #1 on my board overall. Don't care if MacKinnon is better now, Avs need a horse on the blueline.

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05-27-2013, 11:28 AM
  #852
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Still have him #1 on my board overall. Don't care if MacKinnon is better now, Avs need a horse on the blueline.
Team needs aside, is that where you stand as well?

I have Jones 1st....have from before the WJC.

The guy must have played 40+ minutes last night.

He is exactly what you said: "A horse".

Can handle big minutes against big players and come out smelling like a rose. Sportsnet seemed to have a 'narrative' from the start, so it's not surprising the hype meters have flip flopped.

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05-27-2013, 11:56 AM
  #853
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Nothing like a short, week long tournament where people switch their favorite pick.

Avs need defense, Seth Jones is a good young d prospect.

They won't go wrong drafting MacKinnon either, but I doubt a professional head scout would flip based off a small tournament, they probably have a strong idea of who they want.

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05-27-2013, 11:56 AM
  #854
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Team needs aside, is that where you stand as well?

I have Jones 1st....have from before the WJC.

The guy must have played 40+ minutes last night.

He is exactly what you said: "A horse".

Can handle big minutes against big players and come out smelling like a rose. Sportsnet seemed to have a 'narrative' from the start, so it's not surprising the hype meters have flip flopped.
Team needs definitely play a part in it, but I still want Jones if I'm picking 1st...regardless of team. I will admit MacKinnon has made the decision much tougher over the last 2 weeks.

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05-27-2013, 07:03 PM
  #855
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So Renegade, what do you expect from Jones offensively at the next level?

If this was strictly for fantasy hockey I think Jones goes at best 3. Some would have Barkov 3rd with Jones at 4th.

How does Jones project offensively in the NHL? Like Pietrangelo? I think that's the max potential we can expect out him(which is darn good mind you)

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05-27-2013, 07:23 PM
  #856
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So Renegade, what do you expect from Jones offensively at the next level?

If this was strictly for fantasy hockey I think Jones goes at best 3. Some would have Barkov 3rd with Jones at 4th.

How does Jones project offensively in the NHL? Like Pietrangelo? I think that's the max potential we can expect out him(which is darn good mind you)
http://whl-from-above.blogspot.ca/20...-2013-nhl.html

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05-27-2013, 07:26 PM
  #857
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I'm not sure MacKinnon's 6 goals and 9 points in the two games leaves Jones being able to "handle big minutes against big players and come out smelling like a rose". The Moose scored 13 goals against the supposed great D of Portland and if Jones was on the ice for 40 minutes last night then he must have been on for his share of the six....

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Team needs aside, is that where you stand as well?

I have Jones 1st....have from before the WJC.

The guy must have played 40+ minutes last night.

He is exactly what you said: "A horse".

Can handle big minutes against big players and come out smelling like a rose. Sportsnet seemed to have a 'narrative' from the start, so it's not surprising the hype meters have flip flopped.

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05-27-2013, 07:29 PM
  #858
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Originally Posted by toolbear View Post
I'm not sure MacKinnon's 6 goals and 9 points in the two games leaves Jones being able to "handle big minutes against big players and come out smelling like a rose". The Moose scored 13 goals against the supposed great D of Portland and if Jones was on the ice for 40 minutes last night then he must have been on for his share of the six....
He was even on his +/-

It's already been said in this thread. On for two EV strength goals one was the empty netter.

You can always tell how much people watch these guys by their comments after ONE game.

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05-27-2013, 07:59 PM
  #859
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
He was even on his +/-

It's already been said in this thread. On for two EV strength goals one was the empty netter.

You can always tell how much people watch these guys by their comments after ONE game.
Not that it changes a whole but he was actually on the ice for 3 GA at ES last night including the EN. Maybe you're forgetting the one Drouin flipped over his head to pass to MacKinnon.

In the first meeting he was on the ice for 2 GA at ES.

That said, I still think Jones is among the best in this draft class. I've had MacKinnon ahead all year, so for me the Memorial Cup only re-inforced the way I had them before.

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05-27-2013, 08:09 PM
  #860
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Admittedly haven't seen alot of Jones and certainly wasn't intending to diminish his game nor his status in the top 3 for the draft, but your statement was rather hyperbolic in light of the past two games against Halifax (a team with 'big' players), the only team ranked ahead of Portland at the end of the season...

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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
He was even on his +/-

It's already been said in this thread. On for two EV strength goals one was the empty netter.

You can always tell how much people watch these guys by their comments after ONE game.

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05-28-2013, 05:04 AM
  #861
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Originally Posted by kento19 View Post
How is Jones' skating?
It's really good.

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He honestly never impressed me in the tourney.
He didnt impress anyone. But a lot of teams need #1 D and will pray he becomes that guy.

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05-28-2013, 10:04 AM
  #862
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Have Jones as a #1 on my board. Zero bust potential IMO - even if he doesn't develop his offensive game to the level everyone is hoping, he could still end up being a good defensive defenseman who chips in a little bit offensively.

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05-28-2013, 11:05 AM
  #863
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Originally Posted by Marlo Stanfield View Post
Have Jones as a #1 on my board. Zero bust potential IMO - even if he doesn't develop his offensive game to the level everyone is hoping, he could still end up being a good defensive defenseman who chips in a little bit offensively.
From what I've seen of him I don't think his offensive game really needs to develop much more, its already there. I think its defense that I would be worried about. Looks great in junior, but its always hard to judge how they will adjust to the NHL where guys are bigger, faster, stronger, meaner. I think Seth does have bust potential, and being a defensman only makes him more unpredictable. He has the potential to be a Lidstrom-lite almost, but I'd take the Crosby-lite over him and find another way to fix my defense.

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05-28-2013, 11:27 AM
  #864
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From what I've seen of him I don't think his offensive game really needs to develop much more, its already there. I think its defense that I would be worried about. Looks great in junior, but its always hard to judge how they will adjust to the NHL where guys are bigger, faster, stronger, meaner. I think Seth does have bust potential, and being a defensman only makes him more unpredictable. He has the potential to be a Lidstrom-lite almost, but I'd take the Crosby-lite over him and find another way to fix my defense.
How will you fix your defense? Do #1 and 2 defensemen somehow grow on trees? Nope overpaying for free agents is way better and rarely do you see a guy like Suter make it to July 1.

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05-28-2013, 11:46 AM
  #865
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How will you fix your defense? Do #1 and 2 defensemen somehow grow on trees? Nope overpaying for free agents is way better and rarely do you see a guy like Suter make it to July 1.
Dependable top pairing guys like Dennis Seidenberg always seem to be available.

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05-28-2013, 11:52 AM
  #866
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Dependable top pairing guys like Dennis Seidenberg always seem to be available.
Siedenberg was one of the younger ones when he signed with Boston, majority of those in free agent are serviceable, but IMO I wouldn't like my team spending 4.5+ million on defensemen who's average age is 35 and above.

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05-28-2013, 11:56 AM
  #867
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Dependable top pairing guys like Dennis Seidenberg always seem to be available.
Seidenberg is more a #3 that's really good at complimenting a #1. I like him as a player, but a team needs a better top defender than someone like him.

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05-28-2013, 12:00 PM
  #868
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How will you fix your defense? Do #1 and 2 defensemen somehow grow on trees? Nope overpaying for free agents is way better and rarely do you see a guy like Suter make it to July 1.
Through development from within, trades, FA. A guy like Scuderi could be available July 1, he would be a great asset to all 30 teams.

EJ I still believe has the ability to be a #1 guy. With 329 GP in his career, he has just over 4 seasons worth of experience at the NHL level. Many d-men don't start to fully mature and develop until after 25, so I think you could see a big improvement from him these next few years.

Also, with Seth, your not fixing you D right away. People seem to think he can jump in an be your #1 d-man, but I don't see it from him, and don't think it would be good for his development. I would give him another year in junior, some AHL experience, and then work him into your lineup. Rushing d-men has proven over the years as quite detremental to their development. So realistically, your looking at almost 3 years before he is impacting your roster, if you choose him. I sure hope they have other plans for their D than waiting three years for Seth. Even then, they still need 2nd and 3rd pair help.

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05-28-2013, 12:01 PM
  #869
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I think that Seidenberg was their best defenceman when they won the SC.

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05-28-2013, 12:10 PM
  #870
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Originally Posted by Jtabo View Post
Through development from within, trades, FA. A guy like Scuderi could be available July 1, he would be a great asset to all 30 teams.
- From within: Drafting Jones? How many Kris Letangs do you see coming through the draft? Very few.
- Trades: you would have to make a huge overpayment for top 2 defenseman, did you hear what The Coyotes wanted for Yandle and he is more of a 2-3 defenseman.
- Free Agency: rarely do #1 defensemen make it to free agency and if he do they are normally over 35.
- Scuderi: is not a top 2 defenseman, but I would definitely take him on the Avs.

Quote:
EJ I still believe has the ability to be a #1 guy. With 329 GP in his career, he has just over 4 seasons worth of experience at the NHL level. Many d-men don't start to fully mature and develop until after 25, so I think you could see a big improvement from him these next few years.

Also, with Seth, your not fixing you D right away. People seem to think he can jump in an be your #1 d-man, but I don't see it from him, and don't think it would be good for his development. I would give him another year in junior, some AHL experience, and then work him into your lineup. Rushing d-men has proven over the years as quite detremental to their development. So realistically, your looking at almost 3 years before he is impacting your roster, if you choose him. I sure hope they have other plans for their D than waiting three years for Seth. Even then, they still need 2nd and 3rd pair help.
The thing is you draft players that will be the best in their career and not players who will able to put up points his first season in the NHL.

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05-28-2013, 12:25 PM
  #871
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
- From within: Drafting Jones? How many Kris Letangs do you see coming through the draft? Very few.
- Trades: you would have to make a huge overpayment for top 2 defenseman, did you hear what The Coyotes wanted for Yandle and he is more of a 2-3 defenseman.
- Free Agency: rarely do #1 defensemen make it to free agency and if he do they are normally over 35.
- Scuderi: is not a top 2 defenseman, but I would definitely take him on the Avs.



The thing is you draft players that will be the best in their career and not players who will able to put up points his first season in the NHL.
Actually in the first round, you draft BPA, positions of need are drafted after the 1st round. Mackinnon is BPA. He is almost a full year younger than Jones and has superstar written all over him.

Colorado has Siemiens coming up, Elliot who just needs some time to develop, and EJ, who is still a good dman, who will get better. Those are 3 guys who can play top 4 in a few years. Plug a Seidenberg/Scuderi top guy in there as well and it is a formidable defence with a very talented goalie behind them.

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05-28-2013, 12:33 PM
  #872
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Actually in the first round, you draft BPA, positions of need are drafted after the 1st round. Mackinnon is BPA. He is almost a full year younger than Jones and has superstar written all over him.

Colorado has Siemiens coming up, Elliot who just needs some time to develop, and EJ, who is still a good dman, who will get better. Those are 3 guys who can play top 4 in a few years. Plug a Seidenberg/Scuderi top guy in there as well and it is a formidable defence with a very talented goalie behind them.
Everyone knows to draft BPA. I disagree that MacKinnon is BPA, this isn't 2008 where Stamkos was projected as the BPA throughout, Jones was (and still is) beating MacKinnon for majority of the year as the top prospect. I would say that Nathan is safer, but Jone has more potential and thus BPA.

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05-28-2013, 02:11 PM
  #873
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Originally Posted by Jtabo View Post
Actually in the first round, you draft BPA, positions of need are drafted after the 1st round. Mackinnon is BPA. He is almost a full year younger than Jones and has superstar written all over him.

Colorado has Siemiens coming up, Elliot who just needs some time to develop, and EJ, who is still a good dman, who will get better. Those are 3 guys who can play top 4 in a few years. Plug a Seidenberg/Scuderi top guy in there as well and it is a formidable defence with a very talented goalie behind them.
I'm not seeing it. MacKinnon projects as a very strong player in the future but he is not on the level of Crosby or Stamkos.

If the Avalanche are planning on relying on guys like Siemens, Elliot and EJ (as a #1) then they might as well draft MacKinnon so that they can pair him up with Conor McDavid when they pick #1 overall in 2015.

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05-28-2013, 02:19 PM
  #874
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Jones is a superb prospect with loads of potential but I don't see future superstar.

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05-28-2013, 02:31 PM
  #875
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I normally agree with the BPA approach but you can't just say BPA BPA lalalalalala when you have the number one pick, you have to take other considerations into account. To win a cup, it's become clear that you need a dman like Doughty or Chara or Keith who despite whatever their regular season is like, can provide some puck mobility as well as elite shut down ability while playing close to 30 minutes in the playoffs.

How are Colorado gonna acquire this? You can't get it from trading Stastny anymore if ever. No one is gonna do a package deal for a no1 dman like that, they would need a huge huge piece coming back. So the only chance is right here at the draft. Yes Seth Jones is riskier than MacKinnon but if you assume that his bottom ceiling is Erik Johnson then that's not bad either because at least that gives two top pairing dmen (assuming they aren't being coached by someone like Joe Sacco). Edmonton went this route and I think it's gonna cost them problems. Of course when deciding between Yakupov or Murray, Murray was not as good as Seth Jones.

If the Avs brass is really that indecisive about it then I would be curious if we could make a deal to trade down with Florida and get a significant piece from Fla but I doubt it would happen. If Nathan MacKinnon ends up going 2nd and being as good as Stamkos then I would be fine with it as long as Seth Jones becomes a top pairing dman.

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