HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Kreider was possibly almost a Hab

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-13-2009, 11:48 AM
  #26
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,601
vCash: 500
SO is there actually a picture of the list or just of the speech?

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2009, 10:18 AM
  #27
dedalus
Registered User
 
dedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,215
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
Huh?

"The Habs stalled for a couple of minutes before choosing Leblanc, possibly because they were torn over whether to take Leblanc or Kreider.

'They were right there with Kreider,’’ noted one veteran agent. “The Habs loved the kid.’'
Basic journalism, Fly. Dupont (the article's author) begins by characterizing a delay in the Habs' move toward toward the podium as "stalling." This is ridiculously loaded terminology:

1. The word itself carries connotations that may or may not be appropriate to the situation. Because the Habs didn't move immediately to the podium doesn't mean they were "stalling" (any more than the fact that the Rangers didn't move immediately to the podium meanth THEY were "stalling"). The author chose the word "stalling" because it implies doubt on the Habs' part, and so it helps establish a circular argument. (i.e. "The Habs stalled because they couldn't decide whom to pick. How do we know they couldn't decide? Because they stalled.")

2. He doesn't tell us the length of this supposed "stall." Very few and far between are the teams that leap to the podium when their turn is up. In fact most teams use most of their time in the first round, in which case the Habs' "stalling" is merely typical behavior; it had nothing to do with Krieder.

3. Note that he assigns no other potential motive to this supposed "stalling," even though there are at least half a dozen reasons why the Habs and every other team delay before going to the podium. (What's funny is that he actually offers an equally valid reason for this "stalling" a mere two paragraphs later: The Habs were pursuing a deal for Lecavalier. It's entirely appropriate to assume that they delayed because they remained in pursuit of this deal, and their 1st rounder would be part of it ... but of course Dupont doesn't bother to mention that possibility.)

As evidence to support the reason for this "stalling," Dupont has one source who offers the ambiguous phrase that the Habs were "right there" with Kreider. We are supposed to read "right there" to mean that the Habs were in agonized debate over whom to pick, but of course that's not necessarily the case. "Right there" can just as easily mean that the Habs liked Kreider a lot, and would have taken him had Leblanc (and any number of others) not been available. In that case Kreider was never "close to becoming a Hab" because the Habs knew perfectly well they would choose Leblanc ahead of Kreider if Leblanc was available.

What the source says that's unequivocal is that the Habs "loved" Kreider, but that's no indication that they were ever ready to pick him over Leblanc. We all know the Capitals loved Evgeni Malkin, but they knew they were going to take Ovechkin, so merely "loving" a kid doesn't mean you're close to taking him.

Basically, the writer spins a fantasy - a "possibility" as he calls it - from the thinnest of cloth, and frankly, if Larry Brooks had written this about a Devils draftee, he would have been laughed down on this board.

So yes. The thread title is misleading. There's nothing in the article to back the claim that Kreider was almost a Hab. Dupont himself doesn't even make that claim. That interpretation of Dupont's article is entirely RangerBoy's.

dedalus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2009, 10:28 AM
  #28
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,533
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
"Journalism 101"
Did it help that I added the word "possibly" to the title?

nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2009, 02:10 PM
  #29
dedalus
Registered User
 
dedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,215
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Did it help that I added the word "possibly" to the title?
"Help"? I don't know.

Does the phrase "possibly almost" make it more funny? HELL yeah!

dedalus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2009, 02:17 PM
  #30
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,533
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
"Help"? I don't know.

Does the phrase "possibly almost" make it more funny? HELL yeah!
You know, I usually pride myself on proper grammar and sentence structure. I read over that title at least 10 times, before finally settling on, "Eff it, people will have to read the thread..." Which certainly defeated the purpose of changing the title in the first place.

nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2009, 02:30 PM
  #31
dedalus
Registered User
 
dedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,215
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
You know, I usually pride myself on proper grammar and sentence structure. I read over that title at least 10 times, before finally settling on, "Eff it, people will have to read the thread..." Which certainly defeated the purpose of changing the title in the first place.
Pfft! Say you did it on purpose. I assumed someone was having some fun with that change of wording. It makes a mockery of the whole dumb, empty implication of the original article.

dedalus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2009, 02:59 PM
  #32
pine*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,340
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
SO is there actually a picture of the list or just of the speech?
http://i26.tinypic.com/4gp7uo.jpg

RDS

pine* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2009, 03:30 PM
  #33
C-Saku Koivu MTL
Registered User
 
C-Saku Koivu MTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,436
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK View Post
There it is.

On the left: Leblanc, Ellis, Kassian, Glennie, Schroeder and Moore.

On the right: Kulikov, Josefson, Kreider and Kadri.

And you can see the number being scratch for Ellis, Kassian, Glennie, Kulikov and Kadri because they were taken.

C-Saku Koivu MTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2009, 03:35 PM
  #34
WhipNash27
Quattro!!
 
WhipNash27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westchester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 16,108
vCash: 500
I see "Acceptable" on the right where Kreider is and something else on the left. Why would they even consider an "Acceptable" guy if a guy on their other side is available? I think this is all nonsense.

WhipNash27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2009, 04:53 PM
  #35
Freaky Habs Fan
Registered User
 
Freaky Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New-Brunswick
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
I see "Acceptable" on the right where Kreider is and something else on the left. Why would they even consider an "Acceptable" guy if a guy on their other side is available? I think this is all nonsense.
I think the Habs might have traded down if only the acceptable column were available. I think it's players in which they saw something nice in them, but with big question marks surrounding them.

Freaky Habs Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2009, 06:43 PM
  #36
Pere Noel
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK View Post
Kreider would have not been selected by the Habs, even if Leblanc had been gone or had they chosen not to pick him.

According to that list, Jordan Schroeder would have been selected.

John Moore was also before Kreider.

And on the acceptable list, Jacob Josefson was just before Kreider.

So there was no such close call regarding Kreider.

By the way, I was at the draft, and once St-Louis made their selection (#17), I saw Montreal Canadian recruiter Timmins, clap his lap with a big smile, as if he were really happy about their selection (meaning Leblanc was still available). Therefore, there was no hesitation.

Pere Noel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2009, 05:35 AM
  #37
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 32,377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
Basic journalism, Fly. Dupont (the article's author) begins by characterizing a delay in the Habs' move toward toward the podium as "stalling." This is ridiculously loaded terminology:

1. The word itself carries connotations that may or may not be appropriate to the situation. Because the Habs didn't move immediately to the podium doesn't mean they were "stalling" (any more than the fact that the Rangers didn't move immediately to the podium meanth THEY were "stalling"). The author chose the word "stalling" because it implies doubt on the Habs' part, and so it helps establish a circular argument. (i.e. "The Habs stalled because they couldn't decide whom to pick. How do we know they couldn't decide? Because they stalled.")

2. He doesn't tell us the length of this supposed "stall." Very few and far between are the teams that leap to the podium when their turn is up. In fact most teams use most of their time in the first round, in which case the Habs' "stalling" is merely typical behavior; it had nothing to do with Krieder.

3. Note that he assigns no other potential motive to this supposed "stalling," even though there are at least half a dozen reasons why the Habs and every other team delay before going to the podium. (What's funny is that he actually offers an equally valid reason for this "stalling" a mere two paragraphs later: The Habs were pursuing a deal for Lecavalier. It's entirely appropriate to assume that they delayed because they remained in pursuit of this deal, and their 1st rounder would be part of it ... but of course Dupont doesn't bother to mention that possibility.)

As evidence to support the reason for this "stalling," Dupont has one source who offers the ambiguous phrase that the Habs were "right there" with Kreider. We are supposed to read "right there" to mean that the Habs were in agonized debate over whom to pick, but of course that's not necessarily the case. "Right there" can just as easily mean that the Habs liked Kreider a lot, and would have taken him had Leblanc (and any number of others) not been available. In that case Kreider was never "close to becoming a Hab" because the Habs knew perfectly well they would choose Leblanc ahead of Kreider if Leblanc was available.

What the source says that's unequivocal is that the Habs "loved" Kreider, but that's no indication that they were ever ready to pick him over Leblanc. We all know the Capitals loved Evgeni Malkin, but they knew they were going to take Ovechkin, so merely "loving" a kid doesn't mean you're close to taking him.

Basically, the writer spins a fantasy - a "possibility" as he calls it - from the thinnest of cloth, and frankly, if Larry Brooks had written this about a Devils draftee, he would have been laughed down on this board.

So yes. The thread title is misleading. There's nothing in the article to back the claim that Kreider was almost a Hab. Dupont himself doesn't even make that claim. That interpretation of Dupont's article is entirely RangerBoy's.
What does the word "almost" mean?

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:07 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.