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Fear and Loathing In Donald Brashear

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Old
07-16-2009, 07:33 PM
  #26
Jersey Girl
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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Uh, that's not rationalizing it at all, that's exactly what occurred. The majority of the damage done to Betts on that play happened when he hit the ice. That doesn't make Brashear immune to criticism or something because obviously he initiated the contact, but that's what happens in a sport based on physicality and hitting, players get hurt. And that example is laughable at best.

The league is incredible stupid when it comes to handing suspensions out, so you can't use that as some sort of justification. Look at the Mike Brown hit on Hudler in the Detroit/Anaheim series, just as vicious, if not more. The entire basis of the suspension was made after seeing the severity of the injury and Brashear's actions before the game, it's not based on that hit in a bubble.

Dubi's hit on Green and Green's hit on Sjo had equal chances to end in an injury as Brashear's hit on Betts, hell you could argue any hit had an equal chance. Brashear's hit was barely late, was not a deliberate head shot and honestly wasn't that bad (worth 2 minutes but a laughable suspension), aside from the unintended result. Most people are just blinded because the player injured was a Ranger, and like I said, glass houses and stones.
Uh, yeah, whether you admit it or not that is a huge rationalization you have going on there. The fact that the sport is based on physicality and players get hurt doesn't make all hits equal. And it doesn't make Brashear's hit legal, either.

The league looked at the video of Brashear's hit on Betts and determined it to be a suspendable offense. Disagree if you like, call the league stupid, rationalize away, blah blah blah. Brashear was suspended for the hit. That's fact. The rest is your attempt to spin it in a different direction.

You're entitled to your opinion, but that's all it is...your opinion. You won't change the suspension by laughing it off in an internet forum. And another fact is Brashear's next offense will earn him an even bigger suspension. Laugh all you want, the suspension is in the books to stay.

And as much as it seems to disappoint you, Orr was not suspended for the hit on Cullen. Spin away my friend, none of your words will get Orr suspended for that hit.

You're the one who seems to be blinded, bringing up all kind of hits on all kind of players, trying to spin everything into how you want to look at things. Dubi? Green? Sjostrom? Whatever. You're taking a pretty long journey here, and not getting anywhere.

I'm talking about Brashear only, and I'm talking facts, and my opinion that I cannot root for Donald Brashear. I never even said whether I liked Colton Orr's hit on Cullen or not, whether I myself thought it was legal or not, but you decided to set up that straw man for you to attempt to knock over anyway. Weak.

I'm just saying Orr wasn't suspended for it...because Orr wasn't suspended for it. I didn't say it made me jump out of my chair with glee. I didn't say anything about how I felt about Orr's hit. You're putting that into my mouth so you can argue it. Weak again.

Bringing Avery into this is yet another very weak attempt by you. Avery has nothing to do with this and has never been suspended for anything that happened on the ice. Avery is a buzz word for you, nothing more. Disappointing and weak. Weak all around.

You need a new argument, this one has failed....


Last edited by Jersey Girl: 07-16-2009 at 07:46 PM.
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Old
07-16-2009, 07:36 PM
  #27
nyr2k2
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Orr was suspended for cross-checking Ovechkin in the face though. An enforcer in the league for any significant amount of time is probably going to face a suspension at some point. It's pretty much inevitable with the role they're asked to play.

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Old
07-16-2009, 08:01 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Orr was suspended for cross-checking Ovechkin in the face though. An enforcer in the league for any significant amount of time is probably going to face a suspension at some point. It's pretty much inevitable with the role they're asked to play.
I was wondering if he would get to that Orr hit on Ovechkin, I guess he's not up on such things. He mentioned every other hit he could think of! I thought he was going to bring up Brown and Sandstrom, Bertuzzi, Eddie Shack, and everything else that has ever happened.

As I said to the other guy, it's not an either you like enforcers or you don't thing. Every hit, and every enforcer, is not equal. Hollweg was a dirty jerk. Orr had his moments. I didn't like Orr's hit on Ovechkin, and Orr was never my favorite player, but he's making it sound like I defend everything Orr and any other Ranger ever did.

Bringing up Avery exposed the other poster.

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07-16-2009, 08:56 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
Uh, yeah, whether you admit it or not that is a huge rationalization you have going on there. The fact that the sport is based on physicality and players get hurt doesn't make all hits equal. And it doesn't make Brashear's hit legal, either.

The league looked at the video of Brashear's hit on Betts and determined it to be a suspendable offense. Disagree if you like, call the league stupid, rationalize away, blah blah blah. Brashear was suspended for the hit. That's fact. The rest is your attempt to spin it in a different direction.

You're entitled to your opinion, but that's all it is...your opinion. You won't change the suspension by laughing it off in an internet forum. And another fact is Brashear's next offense will earn him an even bigger suspension. Laugh all you want, the suspension is in the books to stay.

And as much as it seems to disappoint you, Orr was not suspended for the hit on Cullen. Spin away my friend, none of your words will get Orr suspended for that hit.

You're the one who seems to be blinded, bringing up all kind of hits on all kind of players, trying to spin everything into how you want to look at things. Dubi? Green? Sjostrom? Whatever. You're taking a pretty long journey here, and not getting anywhere.

I'm talking about Brashear only, and I'm talking facts, and my opinion that I cannot root for Donald Brashear. I never even said whether I liked Colton Orr's hit on Cullen or not, whether I myself thought it was legal or not, but you decided to set up that straw man for you to attempt to knock over anyway. Weak.

I'm just saying Orr wasn't suspended for it...because Orr wasn't suspended for it. I didn't say it made me jump out of my chair with glee. I didn't say anything about how I felt about Orr's hit. You're putting that into my mouth so you can argue it. Weak again.

Bringing Avery into this is yet another very weak attempt by you. Avery has nothing to do with this and has never been suspended for anything that happened on the ice. Avery is a buzz word for you, nothing more. Disappointing and weak. Weak all around.

You need a new argument, this one has failed....
Where in that post do I mention Avery? Or Cullen's hit on Orr? You are telling me I'm putting words in your mouth, yet you continue to harp on a post that wasn't even directed towards you?


If that hit was so vulgar and over the line, how did Brashear not earn a single penalty minute because of it? There is a clear level of hypocrisy in the suspensions given out by the NHL, I wouldn't draw any conclusions on that alone, which was my point that you clearly passed over.

nyr2k2 hit my original point on the head earlier; Based off a single borderline play, Brashear has been painted by an extremely broad brush by this fanbase.

If you want to hate him for that reason alone, so be it, I have no reason to care what players you like or dislike. But to act like Brashear is some uncontrollable monster who is just out there looking for blood and completely went over and above the line when he injured Betts, well that's just incorrect. If that's spinning the truth, well I don't know what to tell you.

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07-17-2009, 07:26 AM
  #30
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Let's see how everyone feels after someone goes after one of our guys and Brasheer beats the crap out of them. I'm not a fan of his when he was on other teams, but I'm gonna cheer when I see him defending our team

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07-17-2009, 11:16 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Where in that post do I mention Avery? Or Cullen's hit on Orr? You are telling me I'm putting words in your mouth, yet you continue to harp on a post that wasn't even directed towards you?
You mentioned that in a prior post. It may not have been directed singularly toward me, but you did post it. I'm not putting words in your mouth. Don't try to hide from it.

Quote:
If that hit was so vulgar and over the line, how did Brashear not earn a single penalty minute because of it? There is a clear level of hypocrisy in the suspensions given out by the NHL, I wouldn't draw any conclusions on that alone, which was my point that you clearly passed over.
So you're all over the hypocrisy in the suspensions handed out by the NHL (an inexact science to be sure), but you base your 'clean hit' theory on the fact that Brashear wasn't given a single penalty minute on the ice instead. No mention of hyprocisy (and mistakes) made by referees on the ice?

This is what happens when you have an agenda, you look for anything that supports your argument, and disparage anything that doesn't. Well done, you're following the script nicely.

Pardon us for putting more weight on the league taking the time to look at and review the play for as long as they needed, than two referees who may have missed the play because both may been looking well down the ice...BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE PUCK WAS.

Referees have been known to make a mistake or two.

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nyr2k2 hit my original point on the head earlier; Based off a single borderline play, Brashear has been painted by an extremely broad brush by this fanbase.
As I said, I based my opinion on the single play that the leauge considered worthy of a five game suspension, but you continue to defend for some reason. You must have been thrilled at what Brashear did to Betts. Glad you enjoyed it so much. That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it.

Quote:
If you want to hate him for that reason alone, so be it, I have no reason to care what players you like or dislike. But to act like Brashear is some uncontrollable monster who is just out there looking for blood and completely went over and above the line when he injured Betts, well that's just incorrect. If that's spinning the truth, well I don't know what to tell you.
I didn't say Brashear is some uncontrollable monster who is just out there looking for blood. Go ahead and put words in my mouth and set up another straw man to knock over if you like...but those are your words, not mine.

I did say Brashear went over the line, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. And I didn't pick that out of thin air, the league did suspend him, and IIRC the forum here went ballistic when Brashear did that to Betts.

Sorry if it's going to be difficult for me to root for Brashear, but that's how I feel.

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07-17-2009, 12:19 PM
  #32
Ian
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
You mentioned that in a prior post. It may not have been directed singularly toward me, but you did post it. I'm not putting words in your mouth. Don't try to hide from it.
And? It applies to multiple posters on this site, it may not apply to you, but that doesn't make it any less relevant. If you want to keep harping it, be my guest.


Quote:
So you're all over the hypocrisy in the suspensions handed out by the NHL (an inexact science to be sure), but you base your 'clean hit' theory on the fact that Brashear wasn't given a single penalty minute on the ice instead. No mention of hyprocisy (and mistakes) made by referees on the ice?

This is what happens when you have an agenda, you look for anything that supports your argument, and disparage anything that doesn't. Well done, you're following the script nicely.

Pardon us for putting more weight on the league taking the time to look at and review the play for as long as they needed, than two referees who may have missed the play because both may been looking well down the ice...BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE PUCK WAS.
I said Brashear's hit was clean? Weird, don't remember posting that, but alright.

I've clearly said multiple times that the hit was borderline (the actual contact was clean, it was just late - and warranted a interference call), and is perceived as much worse based upon the fact that Betts was injured on the play. If he gets up and skates away, we aren't having this discussion.

What agenda do I have? It's not like I'm soliciting you to join the Donald Brashear fan club, like I said I don't really care if you are a huge fan of his or buy his jersey, it's not like I will either. He's not in my top 200 favorite NHL players, but I wouldn't draw conclusions about a player, especially an enforcer, before he even plays for a team. I didn't like Avery before he came to the Rangers, didn't like Kaspar, didn't like Ulf (am I name dropping again, you tell me), but I don't cheer for the back, I cheer for the front. I'm willing to give a player the benefit of the doubt, which many are incapable of doing.

Quote:
Referees have been known to make a mistake or two.
Ditto with the NHL's suspension crew.



Mike Brown received 5 and 10 for this hit, didn't see any type of suspension.

I will clearly agree that referees often miss plays, even with two on the ice, but I wouldn't use their calls as base points, just like I wouldn't use an NHL ruling decision.


Quote:
As I said, I based my opinion on the single play that the leauge considered worthy of a five game suspension, but you continue to defend for some reason. You must have been thrilled at what Brashear did to Betts. Glad you enjoyed it so much. That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it.
Yeah I'm still pumped about it, glad you noticed.

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Old
07-17-2009, 01:12 PM
  #33
Jersey Girl
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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
I said Brashear's hit was clean? Weird, don't remember posting that, but alright.
Not going to argue semantics. You've been defending the hit.

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What agenda do I have? It's not like I'm soliciting you to join the Donald Brashear fan club
So stop defending him, and arguing with my decision to say he'll be very difficult to root for based on crossing the line with his hit on Betts. Let me think that and move on.


Quote:
Mike Brown received 5 and 10 for this hit, didn't see any type of suspension.

I will clearly agree that referees often miss plays, even with two on the ice, but I wouldn't use their calls as base points, just like I wouldn't use an NHL ruling decision.
Whatever. You can look at thousands of hits and debate why one is the same as or different than the other. If you want to do that, go right ahead. I'm sure I could find a video that argues the point in the other direction, but I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I'm just telling you my opinion.

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Yeah I'm still pumped about it, glad you noticed.
I can tell...

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