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Veteran D is the way to go!

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Old
07-13-2009, 05:59 PM
  #51
Little Nilan
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We got considerably slower on D. Gill, Mara and Spacek aren't quick defensemen, the three of them are pretty slow footed. And while Markov is an exceptional skater, he's lost top end speed with his knee injuries, so we're looking at a pretty slow defense next year, though four of them are good getting the puck out. If the forwards don't support them though, it'll be a long year, shades of Souray/Rivet....

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Old
07-13-2009, 06:02 PM
  #52
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I think we're gonna have the one of fastest offences with one of the slowest defences. It's gonna be interesting

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07-14-2009, 09:07 AM
  #53
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With such young goalies and relatively young forwards....its nice to see that we have veteran defencemen with experience.

Everything starts in our own end. It starts with getting the puck from the other team, making a good first pass and then the forwards break up the ice towards the other teams net. Without good puck moving defencemen....we'd have trouble getting the puck up ice to our speedy forwards.

It allows more time for Weber and Subban to play in Hamilton and fine tune their skills and it gives O'Byrne a chance to be the 7th d-man with the Habs.

I can't wait til the season starts....I think we're going to love this new team and the way they play under Martin's system.

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Old
07-14-2009, 10:01 AM
  #54
flappuck
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Originally Posted by Kareem View Post
We got considerably slower on D. Gill, Mara and Spacek aren't quick defensemen, the three of them are pretty slow footed. And while Markov is an exceptional skater, he's lost top end speed with his knee injuries, so we're looking at a pretty slow defense next year, though four of them are good getting the puck out. If the forwards don't support them though, it'll be a long year, shades of Souray/Rivet....
Mara and Spacek aren't slow...

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Old
07-14-2009, 10:03 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Tout ptit View Post
Mara and Spacek aren't slow...
Apparently Simon Gagne told a radio host on CKAC 730 that Mara might even be slower then Gill...but take that with a grain of salt. I don't think he is very quick though..Spacek can move pretty well.

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Old
07-14-2009, 10:41 AM
  #56
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Markov, Hammer, Gorges, Spacek and Mara aren't slow. Some are average, and some are above average, and some are quick on their feet, in that lot.

But yeah, its always black or white, slow or fast. No friggin middle ground.

sigh

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Old
07-14-2009, 10:51 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by HabsHockey View Post
I think we're gonna have the one of fastest offences with one of the slowest defences. It's gonna be interesting
Although Markov, Spacek and Gorges are not slow, it does not even matter about the speed of the defense, but rather the first pass they can make. I think our worst first passer on our D corp would be Gorges and he is not even that bad.

Markov, Spacek, Mara, Gill, Hammer can all pass the puck well... yes, I said Gill.

Gainey chose some good defensmen for JM's system, I can't wait!

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Old
07-14-2009, 11:12 AM
  #58
DamianHabs
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Originally Posted by shealy04 View Post
We are all entitled to our own opinions, but I think you are in the minority here.

It seems as if the majority of Habs fans are excited about what Hal Gill is going to bring us at 2.25 as our 6th defenseman/PK specialist.

We just lost almost all of our entire leadership core so I think it's great to add some recent cup winning experience.
Count me as one who's happy that we lost all of our previous leadership core. I loved Saku but really, how much leadership did we lose? I think this past season showed how bereft of leadership this team was. We're a team with a talented young core and these guys finally have examples to follow.

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Old
07-14-2009, 11:23 AM
  #59
David
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Originally Posted by eliash View Post
Pittsburgh won the cup with:
Gonchar, Letang, Scuderi, Gill, Orpik and Eaton
We now have Markov, Hamrlik, Spacek, Mara, Gorges, Gill
I don't see a problem with with what he have, I even think it's a lot better

And I was just checking, for the guy who says Gill isn't the way to go, he was the D with the better +/- in the playoffs for Pittsburgh and he also played the most in average after Gonchar and Scuderi so if he manages to be good having top minutes with pittsburgh he can't possibly be bad for us, as he will probably be our #5-6
CH is still missing that

1. Letang type of 2nd elitish offensive D with a hard, accurate shot who can also distribute and skate (and no, Spacek is not that, even though he may have pretended to be forr a season many moons ago...Spacek is also injury prone). Perhaps Bob is betting that PK or Weber can grow into something like a Letang.

2. Orrpik like mobile D-Dman who can punish, hit and be just all sort of nasty all over the place. A Robyne Reghier, or to lesser degree Beauchemin, Volchenkov or even XLB.

These two D-men were what CH was missing last year (until Schneider to fill in for point 1) and are still missing from the team.

...and don't get me started about the forwards!

I like the house cleaning because if you are not willing to do anything and everything to win in Montreal, then you do not belong here. Hopefully the young guys on the team have now learned this.


I don't like how it was done without any assets returned and question the assets bought afterwards. I guess I just have to see how the sum of the new parts work together before making up my mind.

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Old
07-14-2009, 11:44 AM
  #60
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Beauchemin is not a punishing d-man.

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Old
07-14-2009, 11:57 AM
  #61
David
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Originally Posted by Tout ptit View Post
Beauchemin is not a punishing d-man.
Much more so than Markov, Hamrlik, Spacek, Mara, Gorges

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Old
07-14-2009, 12:06 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
Much more so than Markov, Hamrlik, Spacek, Mara, Gorges
08-09 hits count

Markov: 61
Hamrlik: 104
Spacek: 78
Mara: 123
Gorges: 94

Beauchemin: 97
(07-08 since he missed a lot of games last year)

'Nuff said.

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Old
07-14-2009, 12:15 PM
  #63
David
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Originally Posted by flappuck View Post
08-09 hits count

Markov: 61
Hamrlik: 104
Spacek: 78
Mara: 123
Gorges: 94

Beauchemin: 97
(07-08 since he missed a lot of games last year)

'Nuff said.
# of hits is not the only measure of a physical dman. There are many other considerations and that's not even including the type of hit. Also, you're gonna be in a whole lot more of pain if you were to be hit by a Volchenkov than someone like a Markov.

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Old
07-14-2009, 12:22 PM
  #64
zurg999
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Originally Posted by HabsHockey View Post
Well yeah. Is Gomez really worth 7 mill? He's not but that's his contract. Just like Gill isn't worth the money nor is Komi for Toronto. We had a tree with Komi last season and now we just decide to get a different kind of tree.
What if the new tree costs half as much?

What if the new 'tree' helps in ensuring the team has three 'almost even' defensive pairings, where the bottom pair don't need to see limited ice time? Is that good?

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Old
07-14-2009, 12:37 PM
  #65
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Gill was effective in Boston in the Old NHL.
After the lockout, like most big, slow Defenseman, it took him time to adjust to the new rules. His years in Toronto were during this period.

He has obviously rebounded since then and adjusted his positional play.
He is a beast on the PK, blocks shots, has a huge reach for pokechecking, logs a lot of minutes and clears the front of the net.

He made it to the cup finals 2 years in a row.
If you think he is overpaid, you are an idiot.

I am fed up with all these self appointed cap experts who "know" the worth of every player. Every team has specific needs to fill. There are 30 teams competing for the best UFA's.

I am very happy that Gainey landed so many quality players. Remember when the only UFA's who would sign here were players like Bonk and Samsonov ? Gainey has clearly improved the organisation & is now able to attract quality UFA.

If you want to criticise each signing why not wait till next summer when we can analyze what they achieved ? Then you can speculate whether they are overpaid.

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Old
07-14-2009, 12:42 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
Heres who I think our top 6 are in order.

1. Markov
2. Spacek
3. Mara
4. Gorges
5. Hamrlik
6. Gill

HAHAHA.....you can't be serious!!!!

1. Markov
2. Hamrlik
3. Spacek
4. Mara
5. Gorges
6. Gill

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Old
07-14-2009, 01:18 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by MikeCammalleri View Post
This tree will only be playing 3rd pairing minutes. I love the signing. Gill brings a lot more to the table than just size and pk ability. You seem to only look at whats on the ice, but the main reason why our team sucked last year was because of the off ice stuff. Gill is a leader, brings experience, locker room guy and a stanley cup champion (a really recent one...).

Markov Mara
Hammer Spacek
Gill Gorges

that is one of the best defense in the league on paper. We need to see it follow through but so far it looks a lot better than last year.
lol not even close to being one of the best. Maybe top 15.

Red Wings
Lidstrom - Rafalski
Kronwall - Stuart
Lebda - Ericsson

Flyers
Pronger - Parent
Timonen - Coburn
Carle - Jones

Oilers
Visnovsky - Souray
Gilbert - Grebeshov
Smid - Staios

Flames
Bouwmeester - Phaneuf
Regehr - Sarich
Pardy - Giordano

Bruins
Chara - Wideman
Ward - Hunwick
Ference - Stuart

Thrashers
Kubina - Bogosian
Enstrom - Hainsey
Valabik - Salmela

Blackhawks
Keith - Seabrook
Campbell - Hjamarlsson
Barker - Hendry

Nashville
Weber - Suter
Hamhuis ( Don't even have to finsh cause its already better)

Maple Leafs
Kaberle - Komisarek
Beauchemin - Schenn
Finger - White

Lightning
Ohlund - Meszaros
Hedman - Ranger
Walker - Smaby

Vancouver
Mitchell - Bieksa
Salo - Elder
O'Brien - ????

Sharks
Boyle - Blake
Vlasic - Erhoff
Murray - Lukowich


I consider all of these to be better than

Markov - Ward
Spacek - Hamrlik
Gorges - Gill

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Old
07-14-2009, 01:22 PM
  #68
Le Tricolore
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yes, you would.

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Old
07-14-2009, 01:55 PM
  #69
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Our top 3, or 4 isn't really impressive, but we have solid d all the way through. There's no Brisebois that will make you sweat bullets wishing for him to get the **** off the ice, or just make the safe play.

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Old
07-14-2009, 01:57 PM
  #70
flappuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
# of hits is not the only measure of a physical dman. There are many other considerations and that's not even including the type of hit. Also, you're gonna be in a whole lot more of pain if you were to be hit by a Volchenkov than someone like a Markov.
Having watched a lot of Anaheim hockey over the last 3 years, I just don't see him as being that physical and I'm sorry but as much as the numbers don't tell everything, they still prove something which is that he's not overly physical.

He's just not dominant physically.


Last edited by flappuck: 07-14-2009 at 02:11 PM.
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Old
07-14-2009, 05:39 PM
  #71
David
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Originally Posted by flappuck View Post
Having watched a lot of Anaheim hockey over the last 3 years, I just don't see him as being that physical and I'm sorry but as much as the numbers don't tell everything, they still prove something which is that he's not overly physical.

He's just not dominant physically.
No one said that he is dominant physically...there really isn't too many of those around...let's see, Dion Phaneuf...Scott Stevens...eh...can't think of too many more.

However, he is a great mobile defensive guy who'll hit you and make your life miserable all over the ice by punishing you when in his zone...as I said before, sort of like a lesser version of Robyne Reghier.

...and CH is still missing THIS tpye of a d-man as well as the Letang type...

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Old
07-14-2009, 06:42 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by David View Post
No one said that he is dominant physically...there really isn't too many of those around...let's see, Dion Phaneuf...Scott Stevens...eh...can't think of too many more.

However, he is a great mobile defensive guy who'll hit you and make your life miserable all over the ice by punishing you when in his zone...as I said before, sort of like a lesser version of Robyne Reghier.

...and CH is still missing THIS tpye of a d-man as well as the Letang type...
That's exactly on what we don't agree. He's not punishing but for some reason, people in Quebec think he is...

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Old
07-14-2009, 06:51 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by HabsHockey View Post
Just going by your logic here, so If he was the way to go for Pitts, why didn't they keep him or offer him 2.25 mill a season?

And I remember him from Pitts and his other teams.

Do you seriously think this guy is good at 2.25 mill?
With their cap space, i dont think Pittsburgh could have resign Gill.

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Old
07-14-2009, 06:52 PM
  #74
David
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Originally Posted by flappuck View Post
That's exactly on what we don't agree. He's not punishing but for some reason, people in Quebec think he is...

On that note, Montreal's defense is very good and doesn't need anything in particular.
I'm not in Quebec.

People think that he is that type of player because he has been that kind of player all his life esp. the Duck's Cup winning year...although he's had some recent injury problems and hasn't been as lately. He is a mean ******* to play against...and still Gainey's biggest mistake todate, even with his horrific signings.

Montreal's defense is average at best and once again, this isn't the kind of complete d-corp that wins championships. The two key areas that were not addressed last year that was exposed int the stretch run is still the exact problem CH has today.

Goodnight.

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Old
07-14-2009, 06:55 PM
  #75
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Gill is a pylon who is going to get chewed up and spit out in mtl this year

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