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First Predator to have his number retired: Erat or Legwand?

View Poll Results: Whose number should be retired first?
#11 - David Legwand 7 15.91%
#10 - Martin Erat 2 4.55%
Both 0 0%
Neither 31 70.45%
Another Player (Please Specify) 4 9.09%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-13-2009, 05:45 AM
  #1
worstfaceoffmanever
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First Predator to have his number retired: Erat or Legwand?

A thread on the main board got me thinking about the possibility of one of our players someday having their number hoisted to the rafters of the Sommet Center. I made a case for Legwand, but afterward, I felt that a case could also be made for Erat. So, I've done some theorizing (and taken a few liberties with it for the sake of stimulating debate), and I have a case for each player at the term of his current contract.

First, though, here's how I came up with the figures you're about to be presented with:

I took the average numbers of every season in a Predators' uniform (which is, well, all of them) for each of these players and extrapolated it over the life of their current contract with the club. FOr the purposes of this study, any season where the player played fewer than 41 games with the club, or played more than 15 games with a minor league team are thrown out for the average, but will be added back in on top of the results from the average for total career statistics. (This is essentially to throw out Erat's 2002-03 season, where he was thrown under the bus by Trotz, to avoid radically skewing his numbers.)

I've added a little personal conjecture into this as well, mainly to help stimulate discussion on the matter (as I said earlier), most of which I'll let you see for yourself, but the obvious assumption here is that they play out their contracts with the Predators and possibly even sign a short extension (they'll both be 34 when their respective deals run out).


The case for David Legwand:

- Nashville's first-ever draft choice (2nd Overall, 1998)
- 972 games in a Predators uniform (14 seasons)
- 221 goals, 353 assists, 574 points in a Predators uniform.
- All-time leading goal scorer in team history.
- Team captain, 2011-2014


The case for Martin Erat:

- 955 games played in a Predators uniform (14 seasons and change)
- 205 goals, 393 assists, 599 points in a Predators uniform
- All-time point and assist leader in Predators' history.


Don't get me wrong here. I'm not suggesting that we retire a number for the sake of putting a banner in the rafters. Admittedly, the offensive numbers may not be the greatest, and the team will be unlikely to win a Stanley Cup in their time here, but this kind of service to a club can not go unrecognized. 950+ games for each of these players, all wearing our laundry. Both could and likely would play 1,000 games (which is far from an easy feat) with even a one-year extension, and Erat should easily have 600 points. Players have been retired in other cities for similar or even lesser careers (Serge Savard, Bob Gainey, Larry Aulie, Bob Nystrom, and arguably Terry O'Reilly) because of their historical significance to the franchise.

These players are the first two real forward talents our club ever produced, and both could end up retiring as Predators if the circumstances are right. I think they should be honored as a piece of our history, but I'm not sure BOTH should have their numbers retired if push comes to shove.

What are the thoughts of you, the informed Predators fans of HF Boards?

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07-13-2009, 08:13 AM
  #2
barrytrotzsneck
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Probably neither. Number retirement is a pretty serious thing, or at least it should be.

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07-13-2009, 10:03 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
Probably neither. Number retirement is a pretty serious thing, or at least it should be.
+1, agreed.

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07-13-2009, 10:05 AM
  #4
Joe T Choker
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Shea Weber

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Old
07-13-2009, 11:12 AM
  #5
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Legwand, his numbers will be right behind Erat but he will always be remembered as the first ever draft pick of the Preds and will be remembered by fans for a long time.

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07-13-2009, 11:15 AM
  #6
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Eeesh, the Preds need to wait for someone to actually lead them somewhere first. Either of those guys getting their numbers retired would be pretty bad. Could see Weber in the future, though, if he stays there his career and leads them to a number of playoffs and a Cup.

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Old
07-13-2009, 11:17 AM
  #7
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I could see Sullivan getting his number retired before Legwand or Erat

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07-13-2009, 12:48 PM
  #8
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My order would go,

Sullivan
Weber
Legwand



Outside of those three, I do not see any other potentials, but they all have a valid reason at least as above mentioned.

Sullivan, came back from back probs, best player to ever play for us for more than 2 seasons (lol), So much heart!

Weber, Future Bourque or Coffey potential on the blueline, one of the best in the league, enough cause!

Legwand, first ever draft pick, leader in goals, should be captain



Possibly in the future we could see a jersey retired for Ellis, Wilson, or maybe Pickard???

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Old
07-13-2009, 01:11 PM
  #9
Basher
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Ellis, no.


My list:

Ronning
Dunham
Kjellberg

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07-13-2009, 01:13 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
Possibly in the future we could see a jersey retired for Ellis, Wilson, or maybe Pickard???
Man it's confusing having two players with the same last name.

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Old
07-13-2009, 01:15 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basher View Post

My list:

Ronning
Dunham
Kjellberg
Ronning is most likely, but that would be a long shot (IMO)

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07-13-2009, 01:56 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundgarden View Post
Ronning is most likely, but that would be a long shot (IMO)
i think he's being feceshus.

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07-13-2009, 02:17 PM
  #13
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Oh, my bad.

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Old
07-13-2009, 02:21 PM
  #14
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Kjellberg??? lol
Dunham???? never even got us into playoffs, or was he our goalie that first playoffs??? but still not even close to getting a jersey retired! lol

I gotta feeling you are kiddin abit eh!


Also,
I meant maybe one day Ryan Ellis, not Danny Boy!


Who knows, maybe even Budish!!



Out of our prospects I would say the top 5 for that kind of nominee are,

Wilson, Pickard, RYAN Ellis, Zach Budish, and Jon Blum.


But players that have played its for sure only three,


Shea Weber, Stevey Sullivan, and Legwand.

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Old
07-13-2009, 07:11 PM
  #15
worstfaceoffmanever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Eeesh, the Preds need to wait for someone to actually lead them somewhere first. Either of those guys getting their numbers retired would be pretty bad. Could see Weber in the future, though, if he stays there his career and leads them to a number of playoffs and a Cup.
I don't think Weber will take us to a Cup, personally, but if he does, Legwand and Erat will most likely be on that team, and that would really solidify a case for both, I think.

I put a big emphasis on service and dedication to the team when talking about retired numbers. Legwand and Erat playing 950 games each is no small feat. As a point of reference here is a list of players that have played 900+ NHL games with one team:

Detroit
Gordie Howe
Steve Yzerman
Alex Delvecchio
Nicklas Lidström
Sergei Fedorov

Montreal
Guy Lafleur
Jean Beliveau
Henri Richard
Maurice Richard
Larry Robinson
Yvan Cournoyer

New York Rangers
Rod Gilbert
Brian Leetch
Walt Tkazuck
Ron Greschner

Chicago
Stan Mikita
Bobby Hull
Doug Wilson
Dennis Hull

Toronto
Mats Sundin
Dave Keon
Börje Sälming
George Armstrong
Ron Ellis
Bob Pulford

Boston
Ray Bourque
Johnny Bucyk
Wayne Cashman

Vancouver
Trevor Linden

Philadelphia
Bobby Clarke
Bill Barber

Buffalo
Gilbert Perreault
Craig Ramsay

St. Louis
Bernie Federko

Los Angeles
Marcel Dionne
Luc Robitaille
Dave Taylor

Pittsburgh
Mario Lemieux

Minnesota/Dallas
Mike Modano

New York Islanders
Bryan Trottier
Denis Potvin
Bob Nystrom

New Jersey
John MacLean
Scott Stevens
Ken Daneyko
Martin Brodeur

Atlanta/Calgary
Jarome Iginla

Washington
Petr Bondra
Calle Johansson

Hartford/Carolina
Ron Francis
Glen Wesley

Edmonton
Kevin Lowe

Winnipeg/Phoenix
Thomas Steen
Shane Doan
Teppo Numminen

Ottawa
Daniel Alfredsson

Quebec/Colorado
Joe Sakic


Anaheim, San Jose, Florida, Tampa Bay, Atlanta, Minnesota, Columbus, and Nashville currently have none.

Here's the list of players who will reach this mark if they play out their current contracts:

Martin Brodeur (needs to play one game)
Jarome Iginla
Shane Doan
Vincent Lecavalier
Marian Hossa
Henrik Zetterberg
Johan Franzen
Pavel Datsyuk (barely - 902 games at the end of his current contract)
Patrick Marleau
Shawn Horcoff
Alexander Ovechkin
Nick Schultz
Henrik Sedin
Daniel Sedin
Eric Staal
Patrik Elias
Robyn Regehr
Mike Richards
David Legwand
Martin Erat

I'm probably missing a few players on each list, but still, that's pretty elite company to be in for the most part.

Even fewer players have played 1,000 games while playing exclusively for one team:

Steve Yzerman
Mike Modano*
Stan Mikita
Joe Sakic
Nicklas Lidström*
Ken Daneyko
Henri Richard
Gilbert Perreault
George Armstrong
Bob Gainey
Bobby Clarke
Jean Beliveau
Dave Taylor
Rod Gilbert
Ron Ellis
Wayne Cashman
Bob Murray
Claude Provost

Only Cashman, Murray, and Provost have not had their numbers recognized or honored in some way, shape, or form.

I don't want to be like the Leafs (only retiring a number when a player has a career-ending injury), or the Ilitch Red Wings (who refused to hoist Larry Aurie's number because he wasn't in the Hall). If Legwand or Erat, or both, are willing to play out their entire careers in a Predators uniform, they ought to be rewarded for it. They would be a major piece of our history, the first players to ever play 900 games, and possibly 1,000 games, all in a Predators uniform. There is a chance that they close out their careers here in Nashville. Ken Daneyko played forever in New Jersey, and a lot of folks outside the Devils' fan base have probably forgotten about him, but his number hangs in the rafters at the Prudential Center because of his dedicated service to the club. What's to say we shouldn't do the same thing for Legwand or Erat? I'm not sure any player better personifies the team culture the Predators have tried to build better than Legwand, and if he is by some chance named captain for more than a year, I think it's a matter of when, not if, he goes in the rafters.


As for those saying Weber, it's a possibility, but I think we're a long way off from realistically saying that he's retirement material. He would have to stick around for another 6-8 years after 2012 (when he becomes a UFA) for him to be seriously considered for the honor. I'll break down his projected statistical progression to show you what I mean (I've excluded the 05-06 season from Shea's projections, although the stats have been added in on the back end):

Current Stats (Age 24 as of start of 09-10 season)
242 games played
48 goals
75 assists
123 points

2012 Projection (Age 26)
455 games played
93 goals
141 assists
234 points

2018 Projection (Age 32)
882 games played
184 goals
282 assists
468 points

2020 Projection (Age 34)
1023 games played
213 goals
317 assists
530 points

If Weber is a Predator in 2020, there probably isn't much debate on whether or not he gets his number retired (those numbers make for a really good case). Before that, it's iffy. If he walks in free agency in 2012, there's no chance that #6 blue is going in the Sommet rafters.

Sullivan is an interesting case. I don't think he has the tenure of service to have his number up there, but his story of his comeback after two years against all odds is one of the greatest stories in the history of our team, if not the NHL. (If this story were in a bigger market like Toronto or New York, it would be getting all kinds of media attention.) Sully has been a champion of the city as a viable hockey market, and has been one of the biggest leaders of this team on the ice. He's certainly one of the most popular players among the fan base, and if the fans had a choice on a number to retire, he would likely win an overwhelming majority of votes.




These guys all still have a ways to go yet before we can seriously start talking about jerseys in the rafters, but at least this gives us something to talk about other than why Maxim Afinogenov would be a good addition.


Last edited by worstfaceoffmanever: 07-13-2009 at 07:19 PM.
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Old
07-14-2009, 01:11 AM
  #16
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We're a 12 year old team. We don't have the prolific players that a Montreal, Detroit, Boston will have to retire numbers. And we've never sucked enough or been lucky enough to be given the #1 pick to have a Crosby, Nash, Kovalchuk, etc. When we retire a number it's going to be someone who did a lot for the team and community, and love them or hate them, Legwand and Erat do/will have done a lot for the team. Just for the fact that they could both play their entire career, and possibly 1,000 games, in Nashville is something to be celebrated. There's a lot of players out there that will get their numbers or jersey retired for one team that maybe wouldn't on another team, it's just a matter of what that player does for that team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
The case for David Legwand:

- Nashville's first-ever draft choice (2nd Overall, 1998)
- 972 games in a Predators uniform (14 seasons)
- 221 goals, 353 assists, 574 points in a Predators uniform.
- All-time leading goal scorer in team history.
- Team captain, 2011-2014
Also...
-Scored the first home playoff goal
-The first OT Penalty shot goal in NHL history.


I vote Legwand!

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Old
07-22-2009, 11:00 AM
  #17
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Erat or Legwand? I was stunned when I read the 2 choices. Neither, maybe Weber, but a player has to have a significant impact on a franchise to have his number retired, and neither have, or probably will.

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07-22-2009, 05:51 PM
  #18
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Personal Opinion - The only thing Erat has done in Nashville is take up significant amounts of cap space.

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07-22-2009, 07:00 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by codeyh View Post
Personal Opinion - The only thing Erat has done in Nashville is take up significant amounts of cap space.
Besides of course being the franchise's second overall in points all time and being one of only four Predators players with 3 straight 50 point seasons.

He's not a superstar, but to say the only thing he's done is waste cap space is a bit much imo.

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07-22-2009, 07:07 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphllp View Post
Erat or Legwand? I was stunned when I read the 2 choices. Neither, maybe Weber, but a player has to have a significant impact on a franchise to have his number retired, and neither have, or probably will.
Being a franchise's first and second all-time leading scorers while playing their entire careers for one club isn't making an impact on a franchise? Being a team's best all-around player for the better part of a career isn't making an impact on a franchise? Being an impact player for a franchise isn't making an impact on a franchise?

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07-22-2009, 07:54 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Being a franchise's first and second all-time leading scorers while playing their entire careers for one club isn't making an impact on a franchise? Being a team's best all-around player for the better part of a career isn't making an impact on a franchise? Being an impact player for a franchise isn't making an impact on a franchise?
It's typical uninformed "outsider" opinion. Anyone that actually watches the Predators, rather than just looking at stats, would easily recognize that.

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07-22-2009, 09:32 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphllp View Post
Erat or Legwand? I was stunned when I read the 2 choices. Neither, maybe Weber, but a player has to have a significant impact on a franchise to have his number retired, and neither have, or probably will.
To put it simply, we're desperate for a banner up in the rafters other than "7th man"

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07-23-2009, 08:35 AM
  #23
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Neither that would be like Detroit retiring Kris Drapers number because he played with the team for 1000 games.

Erat and Legwand have no cups, no second playoff game experience and no 65+ point seasons

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07-23-2009, 08:46 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Being a franchise's first and second all-time leading scorers while playing their entire careers for one club isn't making an impact on a franchise? Being a team's best all-around player for the better part of a career isn't making an impact on a franchise? Being an impact player for a franchise isn't making an impact on a franchise?
Not when you're Martin Erat or David Legwand. Come on, its obvious you're just grasping at straws here. Neither of these 2 players would even get a sniff at the Hockey Hall of Fame, but you want one as a shoe in to have their numbers retired?

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07-23-2009, 08:48 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
It's typical uninformed "outsider" opinion. Anyone that actually watches the Predators, rather than just looking at stats, would easily recognize that.
Or if you're a typical homer wanting to see a number up in the rafters. For a number to be retired it should be as obvious a decision to anyone, even outsiders. Erat and Legwand? If they ever have their numbers retired it will be for the fans, not what the players accomplished.

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