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Old
07-13-2009, 06:27 PM
  #51
My Sweet Shadow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicklin3011 View Post
If Chicago is getting rid of Campbell they are not going to take on two sucky ass players from Toronto for 5 million. Theyll take two sucky ass ppl worth 500 K. The whole point of getting rid of someone like Campbell is to free up Cap Space not free up 7 mill and then take back 5. Gotta love Toronto Maple Laffs trades...God they are such a bad org.
To be fair, the freeing up of cap space doesn't really matter until next season when Kane, Toews, and Keith are all RFAs. Van Ryn's 2.9M contract is over next season, so essentially Chicago is really freeing up about 3.5M (not to mention Eager's contract; 1M this season, going into his contract year).

However, I do agree with you that it isn't the best proposal (from either side). Chicago would probably rather get cheaper, younger players back to keep the prospect pieline flowing in the years to come, and Toronto has no need for Brian Campbell... Kaberle makes almost 3M less and is probably just as good. Eager would be a sweet pick-up, but, as others have stated, we've got enough of those bottom 6 "plumbers" that there isn't really a need to trade for one more.

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Old
07-13-2009, 06:36 PM
  #52
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why would Buffalo do the first trade they get owned in it

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Old
07-13-2009, 06:37 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
gotta love #### up Hawks fans who don't understand the cap. You have no idea of player value. Finger is overpaid for what he does and Campbell is drastically overpaid for what he does. You may also want to look into actual player salaries. It would clear up 750k from the Hawks cap this year. Oh and guess what. Mike Van Ryn who is far from "sucky" but I wouldn't expect you to understand that is also a UFA at the end of the season freeing up another 2.9 million for next year which is important if you plan of re signing your RFA's. Who exactly do you expect to take on Campbell's contract for two players that are paid 500k a year? Post teams who would take him on for that return. Oh and since your new here I'll give you a tip. Don't post things like Maple Laffs or you'll never be taken seriously. If I called the Hawks the Hacks I wouldn't expect anyone to take anything I say into account.
I hate the Leafs as much as anyone, but I totally agree with you. Campbell has horrendous value, and Hawks fans that expect to deal him without taking salary back are out of their minds. This is the deal that seems to be the most fair for both sides:

To Toronto:
D Brian Campbell (7 years remaining, $7.14 million per)
2010 1st round pick or prospect of comparable value

To Chicago:
D Jeff Finger (3 years remaining, $3.5 million per)
D Mike Van Ryn (1 year remaining, $3.35 million salary and $2.9 million cap hit)


Toronto clears out some of their defensive logjam and adds a very good player and another first round pick for the rebuild. Kaberle can be moved in a separate deal for more help on offense, and Campbell is a more than adequate replacement. The contract is awful, but the Leafs don't have a whole lot of money tied up in long term contracts and can take it on.

Chicago saves $740,000 on the cap this year, and then Van Ryn's $2.9 million cap hit comes off the books after the year, when the Hawks will really need the cap relief. The first round pick will be low, and 2010 isn't expected to be as strong a draft as 2009 was.

It may need tweaking, but any deal between the Hawks and Leafs involving Campbell will include some value in picks and/or prospects going to the Hawks and Van Ryn and Finger going to the Hawks. Just because Gainey gave up significant value for Gomez's terrible contract doesn't mean another GM would be willing to do the same for Campbell's.

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Old
07-13-2009, 06:39 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Nicklin3011 View Post
At this point Toronto has nothing, but Luke Schenn to trade and he really hasn't proved anything and is just a work in progress. The Leafs suck, and it's just being honest they have no fire power anyone would want.
For a 7th last finish, I'd consider 10th most Goals For in the league to be decent firepower. But I guess if you really want to have good firepower, you have to suck it hard for half a dozen or so years. We almost have the term covered, but we're pretty far off on the quality of suckage.

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Old
07-13-2009, 06:44 PM
  #55
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How do Chicago and Toronto Fans like this

TOR:
Campbell
Beach
1st

CHI:
Jeff Finger
Mike Van Ryn

TOR: Get a Good Player in Campbell even if over paid, allows them to flip Kaberle now or at the trade Deadline. Get a Good Young Winger Prospect and a late 1st. Manage to shed a defenseman and Finger who is overpaid.

CHI: Clears about $3.6 million in cap space,assuming they can find a home for Van Ryn hopefully would cover one of the contract increases due to Keith,Toews or Kane.

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Old
07-13-2009, 06:45 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafsHagman View Post
1st Trade.
To Toronto:
RW Jason Pominville (5 years $5,300,000)
Sabres 2nd Round Pick 2010

To Buffalo
D Ian White (1 year $850,000)
C Matt Stajan (1 year $1,750,000)

2nd Trade.
To Toronto:
D Brian Campbell (7 years $7,142,875)
LW Ben Eager (1 year $965,000)

To Chicago:
1st Round Pick 2010
D Mike Van Ryn (1 year $2,900,000)
D Jeff Finger (3 years $3,500,000)

What do you guys think about these two trades??
Sabres done need another defenseman, not to mention thats an INSANE overpayment

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Old
07-13-2009, 06:46 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Kaleta36 View Post
I hate the Leafs as much as anyone, but I totally agree with you. Campbell has horrendous value, and Hawks fans that expect to deal him without taking salary back are out of their minds. This is the deal that seems to be the most fair for both sides:

To Toronto:
D Brian Campbell (7 years remaining, $7.14 million per)
2010 1st round pick or prospect of comparable value

To Chicago:
D Jeff Finger (3 years remaining, $3.5 million per)
D Mike Van Ryn (1 year remaining, $3.35 million salary and $2.9 million cap hit)


Toronto clears out some of their defensive logjam and adds a very good player and another first round pick for the rebuild. Kaberle can be moved in a separate deal for more help on offense, and Campbell is a more than adequate replacement. The contract is awful, but the Leafs don't have a whole lot of money tied up in long term contracts and can take it on.

Chicago saves $740,000 on the cap this year, and then Van Ryn's $2.9 million cap hit comes off the books after the year, when the Hawks will really need the cap relief. The first round pick will be low, and 2010 isn't expected to be as strong a draft as 2009 was.

It may need tweaking, but any deal between the Hawks and Leafs involving Campbell will include some value in picks and/or prospects going to the Hawks and Van Ryn and Finger going to the Hawks. Just because Gainey gave up significant value for Gomez's terrible contract doesn't mean another GM would be willing to do the same for Campbell's.
great minds think alike.

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Old
07-13-2009, 06:46 PM
  #58
CaptPantalones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherleaffan View Post
To Toronto:
RW Jason Pominville (5 years $5,300,000)
rights to drew stafford
??? rights to zach kassian

To Buffalo
D Ian White (1 year $850,000)
C Matt Stajan (1 year $1,750,000)
L Alexei Ponikarovski (2,105,000)
1st Round Pick 2011
3rd 2010

HAHAHAHA even worse then the 1st one. Kassian isn't getting moved

try again
it's alot to ask but
can this deal be done
HAHAHAHA even worse then the 1st one. Kassian isn't getting moved

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Old
07-13-2009, 06:51 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by CaptPantalones View Post
HAHAHAHA even worse then the 1st one. Kassian isn't getting moved
Agreed. There's no way Poni, a 2011 1st, and a 2010 3rd is worth Stafford and Kassian; Pominville is also worth a lot more than White and Stajan.

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Old
07-13-2009, 06:59 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
How do Chicago and Toronto Fans like this

TOR:
Campbell
Beach
1st

CHI:
Jeff Finger
Mike Van Ryn

TOR: Get a Good Player in Campbell even if over paid, allows them to flip Kaberle now or at the trade Deadline. Get a Good Young Winger Prospect and a late 1st. Manage to shed a defenseman and Finger who is overpaid.

CHI: Clears about $3.6 million in cap space,assuming they can find a home for Van Ryn hopefully would cover one of the contract increases due to Keith,Toews or Kane.
Thats honestly what it would take for Toronto to take on Campbell's salary. Good deal. The Leafs would problably then proceed to bury him in the minors.

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Old
07-13-2009, 06:59 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
How do Chicago and Toronto Fans like this

TOR:
Campbell
Beach
1st

CHI:
Jeff Finger
Mike Van Ryn

TOR: Get a Good Player in Campbell even if over paid, allows them to flip Kaberle now or at the trade Deadline. Get a Good Young Winger Prospect and a late 1st. Manage to shed a defenseman and Finger who is overpaid.

CHI: Clears about $3.6 million in cap space,assuming they can find a home for Van Ryn hopefully would cover one of the contract increases due to Keith,Toews or Kane.
I hate it! Change Beach to Skille and I would consider it

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Old
07-13-2009, 07:00 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Thats honestly what it would take for Toronto to take on Campbell's salary. Good deal. The Leafs would problably then proceed to bury him in the minors.
Why would the Leafs bury him in minors? He would be a great asset to there PP and is good for at least 50 pts!

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Old
07-13-2009, 07:07 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Thats honestly what it would take for Toronto to take on Campbell's salary. Good deal. The Leafs would problably then proceed to bury him in the minors.
Or not. You don't bury a guy of his quality in the minors, no matter what the contract. What you do is not trade for them. I'd rather not deal with the headache from his contract for the next seven years. Beach would be great to get, but the 1st is basically a very early 2nd in a shallow draft.

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Old
07-13-2009, 07:09 PM
  #64
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Quote:
TOR:
Campbell
Beach
1st

CHI:
Jeff Finger
Mike Van Ryn
Imagine if we did do that.
Kaberle-Campbell
Beauch-Komisarek
Schenn-Exelby

I would assume that Kaberle would put up decent numbers with Campbell...and come deadline time, teams might be willing to offer more than he is worth now as they head into the post season. this could get quite interesting

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Old
07-13-2009, 07:15 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
Imagine if we did do that.
Kaberle-Campbell
Beauch-Komisarek
Schenn-Exelby

I would assume that Kaberle would put up decent numbers with Campbell...and come deadline time, teams might be willing to offer more than he is worth now as they head into the post season. this could get quite interesting
Yeah and then we can have a team of d only because all our cap would be tied up in D. This would literally be a nightmare for the leafs.

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Old
07-13-2009, 07:17 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Thats honestly what it would take for Toronto to take on Campbell's salary. Good deal. The Leafs would problably then proceed to bury him in the minors.
So you expect the leafs to bury a guy in the minors and continue to pay him the 50 million he has remaining on his contract? Really get a clue.

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Old
07-13-2009, 07:23 PM
  #67
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Yeah and then we can have a team of d only because all our cap would be tied up in D. This would literally be a nightmare for the leafs.
Yeah i agree....The forwards really need revamping. I'm sold on the D already so far; so it really doesnt matter to me. Just thought with the trade for Campbell, and the half season of Kaberle beside him. It may be able to snag a good young player come deadline day/ more so than what is being thrown around for him now.

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Old
07-13-2009, 07:54 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
Yeah and then we can have a team of d only because all our cap would be tied up in D. This would literally be a nightmare for the leafs.
But our backend would be getting us a lot more goals as well..

I really wouldn't mind the Campbell+1st for MVR/Finger, but I think there needs to be a good prospect (Skille) as well to take his contract on..A 1st is good, and so is Campbell, but taking that contract, theres gotta be something else thats tempting..

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07-13-2009, 07:54 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by My Sweet Shadow View Post
Or not. You don't bury a guy of his quality in the minors, no matter what the contract. What you do is not trade for them. I'd rather not deal with the headache from his contract for the next seven years. Beach would be great to get, but the 1st is basically a very early 2nd in a shallow draft.
When you've got 4 guys who are all better than him defensively and one who is just as good offensively; he just doesn't have a spot. It makes no sense to keep him on the roster when you can use that cap space (and will problably need to) up front.

The ridiculous salary he's owed is bad, but it's something that'll have to be treated on a year-by-year basis to see if he can fit on the roster.

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Old
07-13-2009, 07:56 PM
  #70
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Pominville is earning over $5 million a year?? No thanks from a Leafs POV, not that the trade is fair value or anything but Pominville is earning too much and the Leafs just inherited alot of salary this off-season and Pominville at over $5 million isn't needed.

Drew Stafford on the other hand is an intriguing player but his value would cause the Maple Leafs to overpay!

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07-13-2009, 09:02 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
When you've got 4 guys who are all better than him defensively and one who is just as good offensively; he just doesn't have a spot. It makes no sense to keep him on the roster when you can use that cap space (and will problably need to) up front.

The ridiculous salary he's owed is bad, but it's something that'll have to be treated on a year-by-year basis to see if he can fit on the roster.
Then don't trade for him; trade for Sopel, or even Huet for that matter. It just makes zero sense to trade for an all-star defenseman then sending him to the minors because you can't fit him under the cap.

If the Leafs did do this trade, then Kaberle would be gone. Trade him for a skilled forward. That gives you Finger's 3.5M, Van Ryn's 2.9M, and Kaberle's 4.25M; thus freeing up 10.65M to pay for Campbell's 7.14M plus 3.51M of the skilled forwards salary. You send Frogren and Stralman to the minors, and your total cap hit for defense this year is about 20.7M... pretty high, but workable.

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07-13-2009, 09:11 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Cappo619 View Post
But our backend would be getting us a lot more goals as well..

I really wouldn't mind the Campbell+1st for MVR/Finger, but I think there needs to be a good prospect (Skille) as well to take his contract on..A 1st is good, and so is Campbell, but taking that contract, theres gotta be something else thats tempting..
The problem is that with Campbell's contract it hinders the team's ability to get better for 7 years. Especially with the cap going down. It prevents us the possibility to balance out our team. Campbell's contract already eats up 1/8 of todays available cap. Paying him 7.14 million when he's 37 is gonna be a tough pill to swallow and the option of a buyout simply doesn't exist with him. Our back end could get us more goals but really big deal. Without any talent up front it won't make any difference. I can't find one reason to take on his contract. Without trying to sound like a homer there isn't any trade that would get me to take him. Or at least one that is feasable. His contract in two years will be the downfall of the Hawks. I'd rather it be there problem then ours. They may get lucky and these rumblings about a one time buyout could happen and they can deal with it that way.

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07-13-2009, 09:14 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by My Sweet Shadow View Post
Then don't trade for him; trade for Sopel, or even Huet for that matter. It just makes zero sense to trade for an all-star defenseman then sending him to the minors because you can't fit him under the cap.

If the Leafs did do this trade, then Kaberle would be gone. Trade him for a skilled forward. That gives you Finger's 3.5M, Van Ryn's 2.9M, and Kaberle's 4.25M; thus freeing up 10.65M to pay for Campbell's 7.14M plus 3.51M of the skilled forwards salary. You send Frogren and Stralman to the minors, and your total cap hit for defense this year is about 20.7M... pretty high, but workable.
You have to look long term. Seven years from now we'd still be paying him 7.14. Yeah we could fit him in this year. After that it's a crap shoot.

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07-13-2009, 09:25 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
The problem is that with Campbell's contract it hinders the team's ability to get better for 7 years. Especially with the cap going down. It prevents us the possibility to balance out our team. Campbell's contract already eats up 1/8 of todays available cap. Paying him 7.14 million when he's 37 is gonna be a tough pill to swallow and the option of a buyout simply doesn't exist with him. Our back end could get us more goals but really big deal. Without any talent up front it won't make any difference. I can't find one reason to take on his contract. Without trying to sound like a homer there isn't any trade that would get me to take him. Or at least one that is feasable. His contract in two years will be the downfall of the Hawks. I'd rather it be there problem then ours. They may get lucky and these rumblings about a one time buyout could happen and they can deal with it that way.
That is true...I really think there should be a length limit on signing people, and something like they become a RFA if under 27, and a UFA if they are over 27 (or something)..The thing is, Chicago has 2 contracts that are super long, and both will be old when the contracts are over (Hossa's loses its value later on), and these two players could likely kill their future talent (Kane and Toews) from signing good contracts since they are young..Not many teams will take these if they ever want to get rid of them (except young teams who have tons of space on a cap that is decreasing)...I really hope the Leafs never sign someone for longer than 4 years..

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07-13-2009, 09:37 PM
  #75
My Sweet Shadow
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
You have to look long term. Seven years from now we'd still be paying him 7.14. Yeah we could fit him in this year. After that it's a crap shoot.
I am looking long-term, which is why I said don't trade for him. If you want to make a deal with Chicago involving us taking a salary dump, trade for Sopel or else swap Toskala for Huet+.

My beef was with the statement that the Leafs should do this deal then bury Campbell with the Marlies. If you make your bed, then you've got to sleep in it.

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