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Coyotes trade Enver Lisin for Lauri Korpikoski

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Old
07-14-2009, 12:39 AM
  #51
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I'm disappointed. Not so much by the trade itself as Lisin has clearly been out of favor and I don't know enough about Korp to evaluate their respective values.

More disappointed the coaching staff wasn't able to mold Lisin into a successful NHL player the past couple years.

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07-14-2009, 12:41 AM
  #52
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Winning will put Butts in the seats, I don't care if we play Devils hockey, as long as we win thats all I care about.

But we still have one of the fastest young teams in the league, I'm not sure loosing Lisin will alter that dynamic or chemistry all that much, when this team "kind of" turned it around there at the end of last season, it sure as heck wasn't with any Lisin contribution. I have said it all of last season, "Maybe Enver is a 1 dimensional player" vs Korpedo (Is that right?) who clearly has multiple dimensions. Show me one super star forward in this league over the past 30 years that can't play a lick of defense but is still a top 6 forward? Because the way some people are writing Enver's eulogy it's as if he was a promising super star. You will not go anywhere in this league without being able to contribute something on both ends. Don't get me wrong he was a dynamic player with "promise," I'm I'm not crying over his loss, I had always sensed/ felt (can't back it up) maybe he had a work ethic issue in practice, hence why he got s**t minutes.

I'm more interested in how Donny has poached virtually every promising youngster from the Rangers organization...now how can we get Dubinsky?

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07-14-2009, 12:44 AM
  #53
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Well I am pissed

I never thought Enver got a fair shake here. At the beginning of last season Gretz was playing Turris all the time with little or no results when Enver should have been in. Maybe a little Canadain bias? Now it is too late. I think promises were made and not kept and he threatened to go the KHL if he didn't get traded.

He was improving defensively, was one of our only players that would freaking shoot the puck, and of course.... the straight up blazing speed. His goal in the home game against the Wings was complete awesomeness.

I will miss the excitement he brought.

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07-14-2009, 01:03 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Obviously only time will tell how this trade will work out but right now I'm a depressed Coyote fan. I love the Yotes but lets be honest, they are a boring as **** team and they just traded away one of only a couple of players that are actually exciting to watch.

Does Maloney honestly think lack of offense is going to put butts in the seats? Seriously?!
Could not agree more. This is a bs trade. Maloney's obsession with acquiring 4th liners on the Rangers and members of the Hartford Wolfpack he originally drafted has got to stop. The Yotes cannot afford to get rid of any guys with offensive skill ; we don't really have any snipers. What, we really needed another 6 goal a year guy, Don???

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07-14-2009, 01:03 AM
  #55
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Personally, I think Envir is the better talent (higher offensive upside) but Korpikovski might be the better fit.

Phoenix is an organization that is relatively weak on prospects who can play Left Wing and Envir with all his talent hasn't proven himself as a top 6 forward. He has the speed no question but Boedker has already surpassed him on the depth chart and I don't think Lisin is someone who can play 3rd/4th line minutes and really be effective. This is likely why Phoenix was pursuing the 2 way deal (that and the ownership situation).

I'm not surprised by the move and I'm willing to wait and see on it. I really don't see Lisin playing well under Torts in New York who will likely show less patience with Lisin's lack of defensive awareness than Gretzky did. Lisin might look great playing with Gaborik though (for all 7 games that Gaborik is healthy). Why do I think that having injury prone Gaborik playing on possibly the slowest ice in the league at MSG is a recipe for injury? Lisin playing on the ice in Edmonton would be a better fit.

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07-14-2009, 01:52 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by TeamTurris View Post
Winning will put Butts in the seats, I don't care if we play Devils hockey, as long as we win thats all I care about.
I completely disagree, I'd much rather have an exciting team that is fun to watch than a defensive snoozefest of a team that excels at dragging other teams down to their level and then beating them.

Perfect example is the Suns. While San Antonio won championships, I still wouldn't trade away the high flying Suns. For a good 4-5 years they were arguably the most exciting team in all of sports and that was worth way more to me as a fan than a boring ass team who won the championship.

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Originally Posted by TeamTurris View Post
But we still have one of the fastest young teams in the league, I'm not sure loosing Lisin will alter that dynamic or chemistry all that much, when this team "kind of" turned it around there at the end of last season, it sure as heck wasn't with any Lisin contribution. I have said it all of last season, "Maybe Enver is a 1 dimensional player" vs Korpedo (Is that right?) who clearly has multiple dimensions. Show me one super star forward in this league over the past 30 years that can't play a lick of defense but is still a top 6 forward? Because the way some people are writing Enver's eulogy it's as if he was a promising super star. You will not go anywhere in this league without being able to contribute something on both ends. Don't get me wrong he was a dynamic player with "promise," I'm I'm not crying over his loss, I had always sensed/ felt (can't back it up) maybe he had a work ethic issue in practice, hence why he got s**t minutes.
Who knows how Korpedo turns out, maybe he will be awesome (I can only hope) but this whole "multi-dimensional" talk is pretty weak sauce. I'm not aiming that at you specifically, just saying in general. Multi-dimensional is just a nice way of saying a player doesn't particularly stand out in any way.

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07-14-2009, 01:53 AM
  #57
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Well Now that Lisin's with Gabby thats gonna be an awesome line to watch. Too bad it's not in Phoenix.

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07-14-2009, 03:22 AM
  #58
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There is no way the Rangers get burned on this deal. The Coyotes might find a decent PKer. The Rangers might find a highlight reel, or find nothing. Either way, checking/Pking types are a dime a dozen. You don't have to trade guys like Lisin to get them. It didn't take much to get Vernon Fiddler, or Matthias Tjarnqvist.

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07-14-2009, 03:26 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Jakeman View Post
Different teams! Lisin some times was put on the top two lines......Korpikoski couldn't crack the top two lines due numbers and being able to afford better talent through free agency. Stats don't always tell what a player is capable of....... it also depends on the situation a player is put into.
I'm not going to go onto NHL.com and look at the icetime, but I'm willing to call bullh****, anyway. I may be proven wrong, but I'm fairly confident(even not willing to take the time to back it up), that Lisin wasn't top six in ice-time amongst forwards that spent the majority of the season as Coyotes. No way. Our coach was too much of an idiot.

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07-14-2009, 03:28 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by MN_Hockey_in_AZ View Post
Why? Not saying I agree or disagree but just curious for your reasoning. That's like emphatically saying "I love fat chicks!" and then not giving a reason why.
Fat chicks? You're more likely to get lucky. Right?

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07-14-2009, 03:29 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by ducky View Post
Guess Korpikoski is a decent 2 way guy with some upside. An upgrade over Winnik?
Winnik can cycle and throw the weight around.

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07-14-2009, 03:35 AM
  #62
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Could not agree more. This is a bs trade. Maloney's obsession with acquiring 4th liners on the Rangers and members of the Hartford Wolfpack he originally drafted has got to stop. The Yotes cannot afford to get rid of any guys with offensive skill ; we don't really have any snipers. What, we really needed another 6 goal a year guy, Don???
Could not disagree more. Yes, we still lack a true sniper and if we don't get one our 5-on-5 offense may be flat to slightly improved (unless Mueller, Turris, and Boedker improve their scoring), but certainly won't be worse than last year with Lombo, Upshall and Prucha here all year. And we are much better on the PK, PP and defense and we have much better veteran depth. And those were all significant holes for us last year.

Fiddler and Korpedo give us two guys (along with Lombo for the whole year) who can win face-offs on the PK that lead to more immediate clears from our zone, and they're forwards who can play two-way and help the blueliners defend. Should mean fewer goals allowed when down a man.

On the PP improving in the face-off circle means more opportunities to set the damn thing up. And Aucoin adds some scoring depth from the blueline. Like the PK, winning face-offs keeps it in the zone. How many times last year did we lose the face-off, have to chase the puck down and bring it back in to try and set up, only to lose it on a forecheck or a bad pass? Win more face-offs and you risk fewer mistakes.

Aucoin + Vandermeer + Lepisto > Klee + Kalinin + Hale. We have more scoring, more toughness, and better all-around defense. That should also lead to improvement by Bryz (if he's a true #1).

DMGM looked like a genius at the deadline last year, so let's see if he isn't right about all these moves before going off over the loss of Lisin. JMO, of course. Call me optimistic, call me naive, but I think I'm right.

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07-14-2009, 03:37 AM
  #63
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Wow, the Ranger fans posts are only serving to make me feel worse about this trade. Lisin has game breaking potential and the Coyotes traded him for a hard working player that might have, but probably doesn't have, offensive upside.



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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
I think you're using the term "we" pretty loosely. I don't remember losing Sjostrom being that troublesome. He never did show an ability to finish. His wheels were essentially worthless when it came to offense because unless it was an empty net, he wasn't going to score.
Except when he earned a job with the Rag$ by picking the puck clean along the boards, going behind his own net and then going end to end against the Rag$.

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07-14-2009, 03:38 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by ducky View Post
He is primarily a LW, no?

So is he a 4th line guy with Fiddler or a 3rd line guy with Hanzal?

Ideas for our lineup (without adding Afinogenov or Tanguay)?

Doan - Mueller - Boedker
Upshall - Turris - Lombardi (I think this could be an effective line)
Korpikoski - Hanzal - Prucha
Winnik - Fiddler - Tikhonov
You are not allowed to put one of the top face-off men in the entire NHL at wing, in favor of Kyle Turris. Let the kid skate straight lines.

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07-14-2009, 03:40 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Coyotes Crusader View Post
Despite the critics, I think Fedouk can still give this team what most teams expect out of a 4th liner.
Even if I agreed with you(which I don't) it'd be at twice the cost.

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07-14-2009, 03:46 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
I'm not going to go onto NHL.com and look at the icetime, but I'm willing to call bullh****, anyway. I may be proven wrong, but I'm fairly confident(even not willing to take the time to back it up), that Lisin wasn't top six in ice-time amongst forwards that spent the majority of the season as Coyotes. No way. Our coach was too much of an idiot.
He was top-six. Doan, Mueller, Hanzal, Reinprecht, Boedker and Lisin (14:49 ATOI).

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07-14-2009, 04:00 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
I'm not going to go onto NHL.com and look at the icetime, but I'm willing to call bullh****, anyway. I may be proven wrong, but I'm fairly confident(even not willing to take the time to back it up), that Lisin wasn't top six in ice-time amongst forwards that spent the majority of the season as Coyotes. No way. Our coach was too much of an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RousselRising View Post
He was top-six. Doan, Mueller, Hanzal, Reinprecht, Boedker and Lisin (14:49 ATOI).
Forgot Olli Jokinen.

Anyway, his goal totals in the limited games he played indicate a twenty goal scorer. Enver may or may not actually get there. I assume he will given the advancements in his game in his young career(already scored eighteen in his FIRST seventy eight games in the NHL).

Korpikoski is just a checker...

Purely as a checking line Pker, a guy like Matthias Tjarnqvist is probably better and probably cheaper than a guy like Korpikoski.

...a vet with experience. Why rely on a kid with limited upside when you can have a vet that's been around the block, knows the checking game better, has equally limited upside, and will probably cost a lot less than a recent first round pick making first round money?

Give me Tjarnqvist over Korpikoski and give me Enver Lisin over either. I think this is a dumb move. Even if Enver bolts and becomes a KHL star and "Korpedo" sticks around and becomes a typical fourth line checker, it still was not worth the roll of the dice. It's a sucker bet. Every time.

Juice ain't worth the squeeze. Juice ain't worth the squeeze. Why waste the calories?

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07-14-2009, 04:09 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
they need offense and Linsin can provide that perhaps with another young Russian Anisimov
It's funny, I was saying that in IRC earlier today. Anisimov might just be the perfect center for Lisin. At least, I hope he is. I wish Lisin the best in New York and might still buy a Lisin Coyotes jersey.

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Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
Put together in a YouTube reel, his goals make him look like a budding All-Star. But I sat through two seasons at the Job waiting for him to turn it on and electrify us with more than a hint of that superstar-caliber play. I kept telling everyone around me, "Man, just you wait until he kicks on the jets - he's unbelievable!" But more often than not we were left hanging.
So, is that the fault of the student or the teacher? Those moments of brilliance is part of how people gauge potential. It's the Coyotes fault that Lisin's potential was toyed with and misused.

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Maloney isn't done quite yet! He will add a scorer either by trade or by free agency....it's only July, if it was september I would start to panic.
I hope you're right. I'm not going to panic, but I am disappointed. The Coyotes have not gotten significantly better and I just do not see how they will before the season starts.

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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
More disappointed the coaching staff wasn't able to mold Lisin into a successful NHL player the past couple years.
I completely agree. As I said in response to zyllyx, the coaching staff failed Lisin, Lisin didn't fail the team. This coach staff has shown zero ability to nurture offensive skills.

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Originally Posted by TeamTurris View Post
Show me one super star forward in this league over the past 30 years that can't play a lick of defense but is still a top 6 forward?
You should check out Alexander Ovechkin, Jaromir Jagr, Pavel Bure and Alexei Kovalev to start. If you're not familiar, they've had some pretty solid seasons in the NHL. Most (read: all) of them have played in an all-star game or two (read: several).

I'm not saying Lisin was going to be one of those players -- he has that kind of ceilling -- but I am saying your post was a remarkable example of ignorance to go with your normal lack of spelling and grammar. Wake up.

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Originally Posted by omnimutant View Post
Well Now that Lisin's with Gabby thats gonna be an awesome line to watch. Too bad it's not in Phoenix.
Gaborik, Anisimov and Lisin might be just about the most exciting line in the NHL next season should they play together during Gaborik's 15 games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RousselRising View Post
Could not disagree more. Yes, we still lack a true sniper and if we don't get one our 5-on-5 offense may be flat to slightly improved (unless Mueller, Turris, and Boedker improve their scoring), but certainly won't be worse than last year with Lombo, Upshall and Prucha here all year.
Lombardi, Upshall and Prucha have a history of hot and cold flashes, with more cold than hot. If you are expecting them to keep up their pace, you might also consider purchasing a lottery ticket. I like those guys as players, and even think they can make a good second line, but they are not consistent scorers and the Coyotes don't have a first line.

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07-14-2009, 04:13 AM
  #69
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The Coyotes need touchdowns, not good punts. It's the fourth quarter, and this organization is on the brink of elimination, or relocation. Enver Lisin is a Hail Mary. Korpikoski is a solid punt. There is no good reason for it.

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07-14-2009, 04:15 AM
  #70
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Not thrilled about this. I'm sure Korpikoski is great at what he has to offer, but I'm not sure that what he has to offer is what we need. Defensive ability is underrated, but there were other ways of getting it. Lisin has a natural gift for scoring that's hard to find, especially for his price tag. And I don't think it's a good idea for us to adopt a highly defensive system. That's great for locations with a long and rich hockey culture, like Minnesota, but we need to be good AND entertaining. Last year, at our worst, we were bad AND boring. Lisin is always fun to watch.

Also, it irritates me that we trade players rather than looking to the root of the problem--bad coaching. It would be one thing if Lisin was the only one with major holes in his game that weren't getting fixed. Then we could assume that it was his problem alone. But hardly anyone gets better playing here, and last year there was an absurd amount of regression. I guess I'm just not seeing a whole lot of player development going on, and trading half the team away twice a year isn't going to change that.

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07-14-2009, 04:17 AM
  #71
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...
Very well summarized.

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07-14-2009, 04:21 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by 60DegreesIsCold View Post
Also, it irritates me that we trade players rather than looking to the root of the problem--bad coaching. It would be one thing if Lisin was the only one with major holes in his game that weren't getting fixed. Then we could assume that it was his problem alone. But hardly anyone gets better playing here, and last year there was an absurd amount of regression. I guess I'm just not seeing a whole lot of player development going on, and trading half the team away twice a year isn't going to change that.
I want YOU to be head coach. Honestly, this post makes you more qualified than the retards we have now.

If the coaching staff isn't gone, next season, we're doomed. It's the worst the league has seen in my memory.

Also...
I honestly think that any Coyotes fans that like this deal are the types that like ANY deal the team makes. By the same token, I honestly think that any Rangers fans that don't like this deal, just don't know enough about Lisin.

Sather bent Maloney over, here. Stupid, stupid trade on Phoenix's part. The Rangers CANNOT lose.

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07-14-2009, 04:22 AM
  #73
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Very well summarized.
Y'all are too fast for me. In the time it took me to write my post, like 3 people had replied.

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07-14-2009, 04:22 AM
  #74
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I stated in another thread that without free agent X the Coyotes have only 2 guys you can bank on given a full season for 20 goals. They now only have 1.

Without a reasonable replacement in production is this not just bad, but terrible. What came back is almost irrelevant.

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07-14-2009, 04:27 AM
  #75
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I stated in another thread that without free agent X the Coyotes have only 2 guys you can bank on given a full season for 20 goals. They now only have 1.

Without a reasonable replacement in production is this not just bad, but terrible. What came back is almost irrelevant.
Yep, as a young guy, with only one "total" season under his belt, Enver had 18 goals in 78 games. I don't care what you think about the kid, you HAVE to admit that his next 78 NHL games will be better than his first 78 NHL games. That's 20 goals. AT LEAST. This Fin will probably NEVER score 18 goals in ANY 78 games he plays in this league.

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