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07-14-2009, 10:27 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
You are mistaken in their Playoff stats.
Ahh.... pardon. I just took the last two seasons. Either way I think it only strengthens the argument I made. Dubinsky has been rather more impressive in the playoffs than Callahan at a younger age.

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07-14-2009, 10:28 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
Well how about the argument on Dubinsky's side that the Rangers need him possibly more than he needs them? Are we really going to have Drury play #1 center and a rookie (Anisimov) play #2? Unless Sather has some magic left to trade for a #1 center, then Dubinsky is your guy. Stats always make a difference in contract negotiations. Dubinsky isn't going to take 600-700K. You think a team wouldn't offer him 1.5M-2.5M? I'd gladly give up a 2nd round pick for Dubinsky.
No I think a team would've already. I also don't think the Rangers would fall apart if Dubinsky was a holdout. The fact that you say that shows how much you over rate Dubinsky. Its pretty cut and dry here he will get his money but he has to wait a year. Btw if state mattered the Rangers would've qualified him at a higher number. This is a business take off the homer glasses here.the is no negotiations with a player that has ZERO leverage...
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07-14-2009, 10:37 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
I also don't think the Rangers would fall apart if Dubinsky was a holdout.
Fall apart, no. Leave a hole down the middle, yes.

I'm not sure that loading up on a scoring wingers, but having only (1) center w/ NHL experience on the roster is really a wise plan, but it all depends on far apart these sides are. The tone of this thread makes it sound like Dubinsky has a gun to Sather's head and none of us know if that's the case.

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07-14-2009, 10:40 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
This is a business take off the homer glasses here.the is no negotiations with a player that has ZERO leverage...
Well.... there are also different ways of conducting business.
If you want to low-ball the youngster who is most likely to be your 1st line center this season and who outside of Staal is your most promising young player to build on, then what does that tell about the way you plan on getting the youth movement going? What kind of message does it send to Dubinsky?

You are tight against the cap now, but do you really think you'll be better off next season where we're likely to see a big drop and you have to sign Staal and Girardi?

It can be a good long term business to pay a little more now to get it back with contracts developing into a steal as the player progress. If Gaborik stays healthy next season and Dubinsky is his center, you are certainly going to look at a tougher negotiation than this year.

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07-14-2009, 10:42 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Fall apart, no. Leave a hole down the middle, yes.

I'm not sure that loading up on a scoring wingers, but having only (1) center w/ NHL experience on the roster is really a wise plan, but it all depends on far apart these sides are. The tone of this thread makes it sound like Dubinsky has a gun to Sather's head and none of us know if that's the case.
So then let's give Dubinsky 5m a year...I mean if its a gaping hole down the middle lets make sure its fille by overwhelming Dubinsky...crazy right?

The rangers can match any offer sheet and multi year ones for $2m would be great for the Rangers but one year at $2m...Dubinsky should wait in line for his money.
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07-14-2009, 10:47 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
Well.... there are also different ways of conducting business.
If you want to low-ball the youngster who is most likely to be your 1st line center this season and who outside of Staal is your most promising young player to build on, then what does that tell about the way you plan on getting the youth movement going? What kind of message does it send to Dubinsky?

You are tight against the cap now, but do you really think you'll be better off next season where we're likely to see a big drop and you have to sign Staal and Girardi?

It can be a good long term business to pay a little more now to get it back with contracts developing into a steal as the player progress. If Gaborik stays healthy next season and Dubinsky is his center, you are certainly going to look at a tougher negotiation than this year.
If Dubinsky plays great with Gaborik then that's a good problem to have. He isn't a UFA next year the Rangers still have hia rights.

Save the message sending nonsense....on the day after they locked Callahan up you are really going to post that?

You use the leverage while you have it and the Rangers would be fools to over pay this player NOW.
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07-14-2009, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
So then let's give Dubinsky 5m a year...I mean if its a gaping hole down the middle lets make sure its fille by overwhelming Dubinsky...crazy right?

The rangers can match any offer sheet and multi year ones for $2m would be great for the Rangers but one year at $2m...Dubinsky should wait in line for his money.
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...and how do you know that he's not going to sign for 3 years at 2.3M or so per?

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07-14-2009, 10:53 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
So then let's give Dubinsky 5m a year...I mean if its a gaping hole down the middle lets make sure its fille by overwhelming Dubinsky...crazy right?
SOS, I know you don't think he's going to accept the QO, no negotiations. It's a business decision for the player as well.

I'm not aware of his asking price. Are you? All I'm saying is, if it's reasonable and market value, it's not worth it for THIS TEAM to try and save a nickel.

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07-14-2009, 10:56 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
...and how do you know that he's not going to sign for 3 years at 2.3M or so per?
Who is signing him to that contract? Come on give me teams that would do it?

If Dubinsky wants his money then he needs to wait a year..plain and simple..
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07-14-2009, 10:58 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
SOS, I know you don't think he's going to accept the QO, no negotiations. It's a business decision for the player as well.

I'm not aware of his asking price. Are you? All I'm saying is, if it's reasonable and market value, it's not worth it for THIS TEAM to try and save a nickel.
Then Dubinsky should be prepared to sit home this year. The Rangers will take care of their own when the time is right.

Melrose a fair and market value contract for a kid with no leverage is his qualifying offer.
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07-14-2009, 11:03 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Then Dubinsky should be prepared to sit home this year. The Rangers will take care of their own when the time is right.

Melrose a fair and market value contract for a kid with no leverage is his qualifying offer.
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makes sense to me

is this true about no leverage? does he have to sign whatever the rangers offer him in order to stay in the NHL?

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07-14-2009, 11:04 AM
  #37
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If he wants $ then he cant go without a goal for like a quarter of the season like he did this year! Can these players please prove they are worthy of big money first!

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07-14-2009, 11:06 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
I think he better sigm his qualifying offer or be prepared to sit at home as a holdout.

Why would the Rangers pay Dubinsky more then the have to?
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If I am the Dubinsky camp, I hold out.

Do you really think that he won't get an offer-sheet?

Easily I can see him getting an offer-sheet in the 3 million range and then what?

We match and overpay for a player we probably could have signed for 2-2.3 million? Or we accept compensation of a 1st and 3rd round pick.

Is it really worth it to play hardball with a player that is supposed to be a core player for your franchise?

I think the position you are taking here would be a huge mistake.

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07-14-2009, 11:11 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Who is signing him to that contract? Come on give me teams that would do it?

If Dubinsky wants his money then he needs to wait a year..plain and simple..
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Islanders would sign him to that deal in a heartbeat.

Atlanta could use a solid center like this.

Florida could use him

Columbus is another team

Colorado

These are all teams that could use a solid 2-way center that is still getting better.

I could see one of the teams above signing him to an offer-sheet in the 2.5-3.0 million range

You think he has no leverage, I'd hate to have you as my agent.

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07-14-2009, 11:14 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
If I am the Dubinsky camp, I hold out.

Do you really think that he won't get an offer-sheet?

Easily I can see him getting an offer-sheet in the 3 million range and then what?

We match and overpay for a player we probably could have signed for 2-2.3 million? Or we accept compensation of a 1st and 3rd round pick.

Is it really worth it to play hardball with a player that is supposed to be a core player for your franchise?

I think the position you are taking here would be a huge mistake.
Name the teams that would offer him that?

So you think its good management to be held up by a kid that has no leverage? Interesting..

Nobody is giving Dubinsky $3m a year now...a 13 goal scorer that disappears for long stretch during a season...PLEAZE!

For what term would these mysterious teams give him that money? One year...five years? Are they going to want to eat into his early fa years? I mean let's see what term you think too..

Dubinsky should sign his qualifying offer before it goes down on thursday and get his money next year..
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07-14-2009, 11:18 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Islanders would sign him to that deal in a heartbeat.

Atlanta could use a solid center like this.

Florida could use him

Columbus is another team

Colorado

These are all teams that could use a solid 2-way center that is still getting better.

I could see one of the teams above signing him to an offer-sheet in the 2.5-3.0 million range

You think he has no leverage, I'd hate to have you as my agent.
He has no leverage and just because those teams exist doesent mean they would sign him.

Nice try though...
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07-14-2009, 11:19 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Melrose a fair and market value contract for a kid with no leverage is his qualifying offer.
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I don't disagree in principle with what you're saying. I'm considering that the options to not having Dubinsky are fielding an inferior team, or signing a more expensive player to handle the job, if they even can.

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07-14-2009, 11:30 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
He has no leverage and just because those teams exist doesent mean they would sign him.

Nice try though...
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Offer-sheets take people by surprise because no one knows when they will be signed or who will offer them.

To assume that those teams, that need quality players like Dubinsky won't offer up a 1st and a 3rd for a Dubinsky kind of player is totally nieve.

It is so comforting knowing that you are not negotiating on the Rangers behalf. Because how you deal with players on your roster that are being realistic, is seen and watched by the rest of the team.

A realistic number for Dubinsky is 2.5 per for the next 3 years. A concession on Dubi's part can get you to 2.25 million. You let him walk for that and you can just abount guarantee a hard time negotiating for your other players later.

Bad move sticking it to the kid now, just because you can.

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07-14-2009, 11:35 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
He has no leverage and just because those teams exist doesent mean they would sign him.

Nice try though...
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Forgot to mention, you asked for teams that would offer him a better contract than what you would and I listed them in what? less than 10 minites.

Your argument would hold water if they DIDN'T exist, but they do, and they have the cap room to fit a 3 million dollar contract.

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07-14-2009, 11:37 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Offer-sheets take people by surprise because no one knows when they will be signed or who will offer them.

To assume that those teams, that need quality players like Dubinsky won't offer up a 1st and a 3rd for a Dubinsky kind of player is totally nieve.

It is so comforting knowing that you are not negotiating on the Rangers behalf. Because how you deal with players on your roster that are being realistic, is seen and watched by the rest of the team.

A realistic number for Dubinsky is 2.5 per for the next 3 years. A concession on Dubi's part can get you to 2.25 million. You let him walk for that and you can just abount guarantee a hard time negotiating for your other players later.

Bad move sticking it to the kid now, just because you can.
I'm glad your negotiating for Dubinsky...

Offer sheets come by surprise! Great comeback...you got me..

The Rangers aren't sticking it to Dubinsky they are doing what's right for them right now. Next year I'd say lock him up but this year it makes zero sense to
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07-14-2009, 11:43 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Name the teams that would offer him that?

So you think its good management to be held up by a kid that has no leverage? Interesting..

Nobody is giving Dubinsky $3m a year now...a 13 goal scorer that disappears for long stretch during a season...PLEAZE!

For what term would these mysterious teams give him that money? One year...five years? Are they going to want to eat into his early fa years? I mean let's see what term you think too..

Dubinsky should sign his qualifying offer before it goes down on thursday and get his money next year..
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Goal scoring is not what he does best, that is Callahan and he got his $$. Dubinsky is a solid 2-way center that has posted more assists than Callahan has goals and that is what any Agent/GM would be looking at when assessing this players talent and value to this team.

He's the 2nd best playmaking center on this team and his absense leaves a HUGE void. Easily he can get 2.5-3 million per as an offersheet and the longer he goes without a contract, the more likely one is extended.

The Rangers will not wait forever as they have other players they have to sign. Once they get to a point where they are touching 56.8, that is when one of my mysterious teams will enter the fray and offer him the money he has earned.

If Callahan is worth 2.3, Dubinsky is worth more. Your perceived view of his status is irrelevant in that he's a better player and has earned a contract that exceeds Cally's numbers regardless of arbitration status.

So, when Sather is busy signing other players and Dubi's agent solicit's offers from these other teams that can fit him and would be more than happy to part with a 1st and a 3rd as compensation, you'll see how wrong you really are.

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07-14-2009, 11:44 AM
  #47
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three years, $2.25MM, is not a horrible contract for Dubi or the Rangers. The issue is locking him up for some time would be difficult, especially if his agent thinks he will be playing with Gaborik and thus have inflated stats over the next couple seasons. The Rangers could create their own monster. Getting him signed is quite important. The middle sucks. It sucks so much that Dubi will be centering Gaborik. Without him there is no depth on lines and the team will struggle mightily.

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07-14-2009, 11:48 AM
  #48
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if he gets more than 2 years 4 mil total then he hit the lottery!

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07-14-2009, 11:56 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Goal scoring is not what he does best, that is Callahan and he got his $$. Dubinsky is a solid 2-way center that has posted more assists than Callahan has goals and that is what any Agent/GM would be looking at when assessing this players talent and value to this team.

He's the 2nd best playmaking center on this team and his absense leaves a HUGE void. Easily he can get 2.5-3 million per as an offersheet and the longer he goes without a contract, the more likely one is extended.

The Rangers will not wait forever as they have other players they have to sign. Once they get to a point where they are touching 56.8, that is when one of my mysterious teams will enter the fray and offer him the money he has earned.

If Callahan is worth 2.3, Dubinsky is worth more. Your perceived view of his status is irrelevant in that he's a better player and has earned a contract that exceeds Cally's numbers regardless of arbitration status.

So, when Sather is busy signing other players and Dubi's agent solicit's offers from these other teams that can fit him and would be more than happy to part with a 1st and a 3rd as compensation, you'll see how wrong you really are.
Don't be mr dramatic here. Save that for another poster.

You argument is based on him signing an offer sheet which isn't coming and if it does then it does. I mean if the compensation is a 1st and 3rd from the teams you listed above then I'd take it becauaa is probably a lottery pick...not bad for a 13 goal scorer.

Its ridiculous to think Dubinsky should sign for more then why he is worth right now.

Ps...if a team did sign Dubinsky to that offer sheet the Rangers could go 10% over the cap until the season starts to match that offer if they wanted to. If its after the season start no team is going above budget to sign Dubinsky.

Keep telling yourself he has leverage because of an offer sheet that's not coming...what's next he migh sign in the KHL!

Sorry pld.
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07-14-2009, 11:59 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
I'm glad your negotiating for Dubinsky...

Offer sheets come by surprise! Great comeback...you got me..

The Rangers aren't sticking it to Dubinsky they are doing what's right for them right now. Next year I'd say lock him up but this year it makes zero sense to
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I'm sorry, but I think we are looking at this differently.

If you mean they aren't sticking to him saying "We both know you are worth more than we can pay you, but because this is what is best for the New York Rangers, take this less than market value contract or leave it?"

then I totally understand your POV.

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