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Does Dubi get more than Cally?

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Old
07-14-2009, 12:07 PM
  #51
pld459666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Don't be mr dramatic here. Save that for another poster.

You argument is based on him signing an offer sheet which isn't coming and if it does then it does. I mean if the compensation is a 1st and 3rd from the teams you listed above then I'd take it becauaa is probably a lottery pick...not bad for a 13 goal scorer.

Its ridiculous to think Dubinsky should sign for more then why he is worth right now.

Ps...if a team did sign Dubinsky to that offer sheet the Rangers could go 10% over the cap until the season starts to match that offer if they wanted to. If its after the season start no team is going above budget to sign Dubinsky.

Keep telling yourself he has leverage because of an offer sheet that's not coming...what's next he migh sign in the KHL!

Sorry pld.
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Apology accepted

Mark my words, the longer this kid goes un-signed, the more likely an offer-sheet is extended.

we agree to disagree on that, that's fine. But to say that signing him to a contract that slightly exceeds Callahan is an overpayment is crazy.

He may not be the goal scorer that Cally is, but Callahan is not the playmaker Dubi is. And for the positions they play, Dubi is a much more valuable player. Which is why you lock him up now.

Anothe rreason you sign him today is to forecast what your going to have to do a year fromnow when Staal and Giarardi are due.

Yes, alot can and probably will change from now until then, but to dis-regard future expiring contracts would be as bad as not locking this kid up today.

A 3 year deal at 2.5 per still allows you to keep him as an RFA. It's a manageable number and a contract that the player has earned.

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Old
07-14-2009, 12:10 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I'm sorry, but I think we are looking at this differently.

If you mean they aren't sticking to him saying "We both know you are worth more than we can pay you, but because this is what is best for the New York Rangers, take this less than market value contract or leave it?"

then I totally understand your POV.
Of course I don't want to stick it to Dubinsky but he has to wait in line. Look at the yankees they send money to know end but the almost never spend money in young players before they have to. Are they cheap?

The Rangers should sit down with Dubinsky like they did with hank and explain the situation to him. His agent should too. There is nothing wrong with playing gor $700k for one last year until he has leverage. Look at your point of view fast forward to best year and Dubinsky will end up making more then Callahan...he hust needs to be patient.
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07-14-2009, 12:17 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Of course I don't want to stick it to Dubinsky but he has to wait in line. Look at the yankees they send money to know end but the almost never spend money in young players before they have to. Are they cheap?

The Rangers should sit down with Dubinsky like they did with hank and explain the situation to him. His agent should too. There is nothing wrong with playing gor $700k for one last year until he has leverage. Look at your point of view fast forward to best year and Dubinsky will end up making more then Callahan...he hust needs to be patient.
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I understand your point, but the BIG difference between Baseball and Hockey is that for the first 6 years of a players professional contract, he is the sole property of the team that drafted him.

They cannot go and negotiate with any other team at all for the first 6 years.

The NHL allows players to sign contracts with other teams. Do you really think that a team would not have extended an offer to Jeter had they the ability to do so?

Being that this is the Yankees we are talking about now, they have the financial might to scare teams from doing that, but you take any two average teams and that financial might is no longer a concern.

I understand what you are saying and I don't totally disagree with you, but the contract, in my opinion, still has to be somewhat market value and $700K is not even in the same book, let alone on the same page.

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Old
07-14-2009, 12:20 PM
  #54
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So instead of locking him up for 3 years at say 2 and change, you'd rather wait a year. What if this year he breaks out, scores 60 or more points with Gaborik as his wing? Then you're going to pay him 3M+ instead of 2 and change. Then everyone will roast Sather at the stake for not signing him longer term and having to take an extra 1 or more million cap hit now instead of 2 years later when Chris Drury & Michael Rozsival will be off the books. If you can sign Dubinsky now for 3 years and take a 2M hit, you do it. It would be stupid not to considering which contracts are gone 3 years from now.

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07-14-2009, 12:26 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
So instead of locking him up for 3 years at say 2 and change, you'd rather wait a year. What if this year he breaks out, scores 60 or more points with Gaborik as his wing? Then you're going to pay him 3M+ instead of 2 and change. Then everyone will roast Sather at the stake for not signing him longer term and having to take an extra 1 or more million cap hit now instead of 2 years later when Chris Drury & Michael Rozsival will be off the books. If you can sign Dubinsky now for 3 years and take a 2M hit, you do it. It would be stupid not to considering which contracts are gone 3 years from now.
Then go to arbitration with Dubinsky and block another team from signing him to an offer she then worry about getting him signed long term. What if he doesn't have a breakout year?

A lot of ifs in your post...I wouldn't spend more then I have to for this kid NOW! I'm not saying let him walk I'm saying let's take advantage of the situation while you still can.
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07-14-2009, 12:28 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Keep telling yourself he has leverage because of an offer sheet that's not coming...
Most teams are real apprehensive about sending offer sheets, and for good reasons I think, but if anyone thinks they can have Dubinsky giving up just a 2nd rounder (and that's app. a 2.7 million a year salary or less), then there's going to be a long list of teams who are interested.

Ottawa needs a second line center real bad, and they wanted him in the Heatley deal apparently. If you think they wouldn't offer 2.5 for instance if they thought that would get it done - for however many years - you are frankly off your rockers.

As for leverage - as far as I know Dubinsky does not have to sign anything until the 1st of December if he doesn't want to. Now picture Rangers finalizing their roster while waiting that out, and someone comes up with an offer sheet below the mentioned threshold but above what Rangers can match without going over the cap....

Speculative, sure. But I think you're mistaken in thinking that there's no leverage there. He has not accepted the QO and he is not eligible for arbitration. Hence - if an offer sheet arrives it is "match or goodbye", and he is allowed to talk to other teams giving them an inventive. I would consider all that to be leverage if I was Dubinsky and knew that I was the obvious candidate to be the nr.1 center on the New York Rangers next year.

For the life of me I cannot understand how you can think Rags can (or should) just muscle it through or afford to play that kind of hardball with one of your young core players.

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Old
07-14-2009, 12:47 PM
  #57
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Dubinsky should be under Callahan. He has a potential for a breakout year but he still has to have that year.

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07-14-2009, 12:55 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AXN View Post
Dubinsky should be under Callahan. He has a potential for a breakout year but he still has to have that year.
Not sure I understand your logic.

Based on what is Dubi less of a player than Cally?

Why should he be under Callahan?

Dubi is the better player today, and as you mention, hasn't had his breakout year.

Do we wait for that to happen THEN sign him? Or do you get him under contract now, let him break out and then have a player that is out-producing his contract.

Don't see the logic.

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Old
07-14-2009, 12:58 PM
  #59
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I haven't read any of the posts in this thread, but in a word, no.

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07-14-2009, 01:05 PM
  #60
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Would the Rangers match an offer-sheet in the range of $3.0-3.5 million (1st and 3rd compensation)?

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07-14-2009, 02:44 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banana phone View Post
Would the Rangers match an offer-sheet in the range of $3.0-3.5 million (1st and 3rd compensation)?
At this point they may have too. They don't have a ton of options at center for next season, unless we go get someone else I'll be very surprised if Dubi isn't centering our 1st line.

That being said, as much as I like Dubi I wish we were in a situation where we'd be able to take that compensation and run.

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Old
07-14-2009, 05:11 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Not sure I understand your logic.

Based on what is Dubi less of a player than Cally?

Why should he be under Callahan?

Dubi is the better player today, and as you mention, hasn't had his breakout year.

Do we wait for that to happen THEN sign him? Or do you get him under contract now, let him break out and then have a player that is out-producing his contract.

Don't see the logic.
Don't see your logic. Dubinsky needs to have a good year. Then he will get paid more.

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Old
07-14-2009, 06:55 PM
  #63
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They have equal value and deserve the same contract.

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Old
07-14-2009, 07:45 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I wouldn't use Grabovsky, Brandon would fail if he did.

Grabovsky as a rookie scored more goals than Dubi and posted the same number of assists as Dubi has (as his current high)

I understand that there are other attributes to the players that would off-set the stats, but it's not as great a difference that would warrant Brandon getting anywhere near 2.8 million.

As bad as the Leafs were, Grabovsky was only a -8.
Brandon on a PO team wasa -6

PIM's are pretty similar

Importance to their respective clubs are pretty even as well.

All things being equal, the final comparable has to be stats and Grabovsky hasBrandon beat (today)

Grabovski's also older. It took him longer to make the NHL. He's probably a better scorer while Dubi looks to be a better overall player. I see his potential as 20-25 goals/50-60 points. He's already scored 40 two straight yrs.

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07-14-2009, 08:13 PM
  #65
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Take it for what it is worth and I know i will be raked over the coals for this but ... Dubi isn't well liked in the room and is looked as a child in a man's body. He is know as a annoying kid in the locker room and a player that is going to be real good one day when he learns to put it all together on the ice and between the ears. Callahan is way more advanced as a player and proved last season he was the mor advanced player. I will go out on the line and say 32 for Cally this season and 22 for Dubi.

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07-14-2009, 08:52 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Take it for what it is worth and I know i will be raked over the coals for this but ... Dubi isn't well liked in the room and is looked as a child in a man's body. He is know as a annoying kid in the locker room and a player that is going to be real good one day when he learns to put it all together on the ice and between the ears. Callahan is way more advanced as a player and proved last season he was the mor advanced player. I will go out on the line and say 32 for Cally this season and 22 for Dubi.
Who did you hear this from? I've heard from Callahan, Girardi, and Avery that they are all great friends with Dubi.

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07-14-2009, 08:56 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AXN View Post
Don't see your logic. Dubinsky needs to have a good year. Then he will get paid more.
I see, he needs to have as good a year as Callahan to get a contract that is comensurate with his value to the team right?

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07-14-2009, 09:31 PM
  #68
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hmm not sure what he will get but if had to choose dubinksy or callahan the answer to me and it's not even close is dubinksy.

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07-14-2009, 10:09 PM
  #69
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To me Dubi is hype. He came up played great as a rookie and JAgr made him his project. He needs to score more and continue to progress as a leader. Right now I take Cally on heart and hands

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07-14-2009, 11:20 PM
  #70
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Posted in Cally thread yesterday, predicting Dubi gets a 3 year deal worth 6 mill (2 mill per)...

I dont see him getting more than Dubi. I also dont see him getting less than 2 mil, per year (1.8 was mentioned couple times in this thread). Hope I'm wrong on that last part.

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07-15-2009, 12:08 AM
  #71
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Dubinsky all hype? Please. He was fantastic with Jagr. Jagr saw a ton of upside in him. Had 40 points last year, even with three horrendous goalless streaks (13 games, 19 games, 23 games). Tough, reliable, big, good skater, upside.

I know for a fact that Mike Gillis *really* likes him. Tried to trade for him last off-season. I believe he is offering/offered a 1st in 2010 and Michael Grabner for him, in lieu of going the offer sheet route. The Canucks have the cap space to offer him between 3-3.75, depending how they fill out the 6th d-man position. That would be a 1st/3rd compensation, so the Grabner/1st return represents more.

I'm surprised that some people assume he will get around 2. Unless he really loves the Rangers (not arguing this as I have no idea), I don't see him taking that big a cut. I wonder why he avoided arbitration? Maybe wanted to see a few offer sheets?

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07-15-2009, 05:24 AM
  #72
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Today could be the day something get done with Duby b/c his QO expires this afternoon. The Rangers could pull the QO off the table and offer him less. If it not today, it could be a long protracted negotiation. He has no arb rights. Unless he gets an offer sheet, the Rangers can hardball him. His QO is $698,500 in a one way deal due to his NHL experience.


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Old
07-15-2009, 08:10 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banana phone View Post
Dubinsky all hype? Please. He was fantastic with Jagr. Jagr saw a ton of upside in him. Had 40 points last year, even with three horrendous goalless streaks (13 games, 19 games, 23 games). Tough, reliable, big, good skater, upside.

I know for a fact that Mike Gillis *really* likes him. Tried to trade for him last off-season. I believe he is offering/offered a 1st in 2010 and Michael Grabner for him, in lieu of going the offer sheet route. The Canucks have the cap space to offer him between 3-3.75, depending how they fill out the 6th d-man position. That would be a 1st/3rd compensation, so the Grabner/1st return represents more.

I'm surprised that some people assume he will get around 2. Unless he really loves the Rangers (not arguing this as I have no idea), I don't see him taking that big a cut. I wonder why he avoided arbitration? Maybe wanted to see a few offer sheets?
Don't let SOS see you write that. He seems to think that Dubi has NO LEVERAGE

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Old
07-15-2009, 09:58 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
To me Dubi is hype. He came up played great as a rookie and JAgr made him his project. He needs to score more and continue to progress as a leader. Right now I take Cally on heart and hands
Dubinsky had more points than Callahan. He also has better hands than Callahan, and isn't lacking in the heart department either.

Stick to the goons.

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Old
07-15-2009, 10:54 AM
  #75
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When is an appropriate time to panic over not seeing Dubi in blue next year?

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