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Old
07-15-2009, 05:02 PM
  #26
CBJ 97 61 16
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This is how I see them, opening night and for the first couple of months

Nash-Brassard-Huselius
Umberger-Vermette-Voracek
Chimera-Pahlsson-Torres
Filatov-Murray-Modin/Dorsett

Hejda-Commodore
Tyutin-Methot
Russell-Klesla

Mason
Garon

I think that Filatov has the ability to push RJ down to the 3rd line by Thanksgiving, but just shoving him into 15-17 minutes a night is not going to work. Remember, Brassard and Voracek were both getting less than 10 minutes a night for a good part of the season.

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Old
07-15-2009, 05:09 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlakeSloanProject View Post
This is how I see them, opening night and for the first couple of months

Nash-Brassard-Huselius
Umberger-Vermette-Voracek
Chimera-Pahlsson-Torres
Filatov-Murray-Modin/Dorsett

Hejda-Commodore
Tyutin-Methot
Russell-Klesla

Mason
Garon

I think that Filatov has the ability to push RJ down to the 3rd line by Thanksgiving, but just shoving him into 15-17 minutes a night is not going to work. Remember, Brassard and Voracek were both getting less than 10 minutes a night for a good part of the season.
I think you nailed it Blake...copy your post and put it up when the season starts.. To be honest it's not that bad of a lineup even without our saving grace of a PPQB.

Howson may make a move before the season starts to get a PP defenseman but if he does I hope he signs a FA or trades Chimera to do it.

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Old
07-15-2009, 05:11 PM
  #28
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Nash -Brassard-Voracek
Umberger-Vermette-Huselius
Chimera-Pahlsson-Modin
Filatov-Dorsett-Torres

extras - Murray/Picard/Blunden and Boll

Hejda-Commodore
Grebeshkov-Tyutin
Russell-Klesla

extra - Sigalet

Mason
Garon

I think there remains too many variables to figure the bottom 6 right now but something in the back of my mind tells me the playmaker on line 1 is going to be Voracek and no Huselius. I don't see Umberger dropping to the 3rd line right out of the gate but long term that could be where he lands.

Filatov makes the team and starts on the 4th line just like Jake did. Can't play him on the 3rd (not often anyway) if you're going to get Pahlsson 18 minutes per game and if you want that to be a shut down line then don't put Nik there to start. That woudl be too much pressure in my opinion.

I think we're going to swing a deal for Grebeshkov or Erhoff and to do so I think you'll see Chimera and possibly Murray/Dorsett/Boll on the move. That clears the way for a guy like Picard or Blunden to jump to the big squad.

Methot gets signed and traded or slides back to #7 and Sigalet is the first call up.

like I said....too much between now and October 3rd.

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Old
07-15-2009, 05:20 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
Nash -Brassard-Voracek
Umberger-Vermette-Huselius
Chimera-Pahlsson-Modin
Filatov-Dorsett-Torres

extras - Murray/Picard/Blunden and Boll

Hejda-Commodore
Grebeshkov-Tyutin
Russell-Klesla

extra - Sigalet

Mason
Garon

I think there remains too many variables to figure the bottom 6 right now but something in the back of my mind tells me the playmaker on line 1 is going to be Voracek and no Huselius. I don't see Umberger dropping to the 3rd line right out of the gate but long term that could be where he lands.

Filatov makes the team and starts on the 4th line just like Jake did. Can't play him on the 3rd (not often anyway) if you're going to get Pahlsson 18 minutes per game and if you want that to be a shut down line then don't put Nik there to start. That woudl be too much pressure in my opinion.

I think we're going to swing a deal for Grebeshkov or Erhoff and to do so I think you'll see Chimera and possibly Murray/Dorsett/Boll on the move. That clears the way for a guy like Picard or Blunden to jump to the big squad.

Methot gets signed and traded or slides back to #7 and Sigalet is the first call up.

like I said....too much between now and October 3rd.
If your right about the defense and Methot is not traded you will see Russell as the the 7th defenseman as much as Methot. Depending on the PPQB we get, if he's offense centered I doubt Hitchcock will ice a defense made up of 33% offensive defenseman and a second year goalie in net...

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Old
07-15-2009, 05:53 PM
  #30
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Nash-Brassard-Juice
Filatov-Vermette-Voracek
Umberger-Phalsson-Torres
Boll-Chimera-Modin/Dorsett

Zubov*-Hejda
Commodore-Tyutin
Russell-Klesla

*It's been rumored that the Jackets are intrested in the PPQB.

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Old
07-15-2009, 06:03 PM
  #31
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I think Jake has the potential to put up Nash type of points. He is close to what Rick did in his first year plus, he is better defensively than Rick was.

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Old
07-15-2009, 06:29 PM
  #32
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Nash Brassard Huselius

Umberger Vermette Vorachek (love this lines chemistry last year, would not break up)

Filatov Pauhlson Modin

Torres Chimera Murray/Dorsett

Commodore Hejda

Tyutin Klesla

Russell Methot

Mason

Garon

Boll is most likely a healthy scratch for line4 most nights

This is solely based on the roster as is. I would love to see us make a move for Ehrhoff. That would shuffle defensive pairs.

Commodore Ehrhoff

Hejda Tyutin

Klesla Russell

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Old
07-15-2009, 07:02 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlakeSloanProject View Post
Are you really going to want Filatov out there against the other team's top lines? You wouldn't mind him going up against Datsyuk, Zetterburg, Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Toews, Sullivan, the Sedins, and Thornton? It would be a huge mistake. For the first time ever, we have a legit shutdown center and we're going to have a shutdown line. I can't think for one second that Hitch will play Pahlsson with Filatov. I've got to thin Nik will be on the 4th line or in Syracuse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevelandJacketFan View Post
On the other hand, what good is a checking line going to be if you put Filatov on the same line?
You both make good points that I failed to consider. I just don't know how well Filatov would be served playing on our fourth line. Who would his linemates be? Boll and Dorsett? Murray and Dorsett? Murray and Chimmer (if he's still around) and lose our grit on the 4th? I could see Murray and Chimmer potentially being his linemates on the fourth with Boll and DD as healthy scratches. I'm not sure if it's the best way to ease him into the NHL or not, and I do worry about his defense or lackthereof costing us goals. I understand he needs to earn his ice time, but are he and the Jackets going to be better served by him playing with fourth liners, or putting him on the third for a little while with a sniper in Modin and a very defensively responsible center in Pahlsson? I know his defense would hurt the ability to establish the Pahlsson checking line, but it's one of those give and take you have to consider for the overall betterment of not only his development but the team also. It will definitely be interesting to see what Hitch does in regards to the lines and Filatov's ice time assuming he makes the team, which Howson has made it sound like he will.

The more I think about it though, the more I think you guys are right that he will start on the fourth line. And it's probably the right decision. I just wonder how the bottom 6 is going to shake out, that's what my eye will be watching intently during camp and the preseason.


Last edited by Brassard Calder: 07-15-2009 at 07:09 PM.
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Old
07-15-2009, 08:12 PM
  #34
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Huselius-Brassard-Nash
Umberger-Vermette-Voracek
Modin-Pahlsson-Torres
Chimera-Murray-Filatov

Extra: Dorsett, Boll, Picard

Tyutin-Klesla
Hejda-Commodore
Methot-Russell

Extra: Holden

Mason
Garon

And I'm trying to figure out a "what if" scenario if we could sign Zubov and trade for Ehrhoff. It actually seems to make the most sense to make it a bigger deal than just Chimera+ for Ehrhoff and do something like...

Chimera, Klesla (+Boll or pick if needed) for Ehrhoff, Cheechoo
Sign Zubov
Move Voracek to 1st line, Nash back to left wing

Nash-Brassard-Voracek
Huselius-Vermette-Cheechoo
Umberger-Pahlsson-Torres
Modin-Murray-Filatov

Extra: Dorsett, Boll, Picard

Tyutin-Ehrhoff
Hejda-Commodore
Zubov-Russell

Extra: Methot, Holden

Mason
Garon

Filatov would look good on that 2nd line RW spot long-term.

Most likely, it will end up looking like my first roster plus a Zubov signing so the D would look like:

Tyutin-Zubov
Hejda-Commodore
Klesla-Russell
Methot

Which is still pretty solid if you ask me.

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Old
07-15-2009, 08:58 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casework View Post
Tyutin-Zubov
Hejda-Commodore
Klesla-Russell
Methot

Which is still pretty solid if you ask me.
I'd go for that, Methot is actually a stabilizing defenseman so we will see him play more often than not imo. Without him if any defensive defenseman gets injured I think we're in trouble. I'm also not convinced Russell will be allowed to play every night with another offensive defenseman in the lineup if his +/- continues to be an issue.

Again, just my two cents on the issue.

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Old
07-15-2009, 11:09 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by FlaggerX View Post
He's a better pure sniper. But Voracek is a far better player in every other aspect of the game. There's a reason he Jake spent the season in Columbus and Filatov did not.
Kinda premature to say such a thing!
Vorcek is a good skater but damn Filatov can fly with the puck and his positioning infront of the net is super natural.

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Old
07-16-2009, 07:19 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by FlaggerX View Post
He's a better pure sniper. But Voracek is a far better player in every other aspect of the game. There's a reason he Jake spent the season in Columbus and Filatov did not.
Don't forget that Jake spent the year after his draft in juniors. The discussions at the time weren't that different, with a lot of questions about whether Jake would be big enough, experienced enough, and gritty enough to make the jump directly from juniors to the NHL. That jump seemed to go well, despite the lack of professional experience. Meanwhile, Filatov spent that first year in Syracuse, which I would think is a tougher proving ground than juniors, plus I was pretty pleased that he nailed a hattie while he was up with the CBJ. More, please.

8 games doesn't give me enough to judge the overall value of these two, who are both new, but still at different points in their careers. We need scorers. I could imagine Filatov being a big scorer and possibly earning a spot on the second line during the season (probably not to start the season, but later). To start, I expect him to get a good look on the PP, even if he's on the fourth line.

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Old
07-16-2009, 07:56 AM
  #38
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That is a good point Blake...problem is, Howson has all but said Filatov will play. If he does and is stuck on the 4th line he may as well go back to the AHL. Six or seven minutes a game with 4th line players isn't much different than playing in the American League anyway.

I think his future this season, barring total ineptness, will be on the second line. How he gets there is the real question.
And back to this again. Hitch will find minutes for players even if they play the 4th line, if they earn it. There is nothing wrong with 8 minutes of 5 on 5 if you're getting 2-3 minutes of PP time. Plus the 4th line isn't likely to be scrubs. Meaning we could have one of the more dangerous 4th lines in hockey. Meaning Hitch might want to roll 4 lines more in the first couple of periods for the top lines being fresh in the 3rd.

Hitch would likely allow him to fill in for the odd shift when players have been on for speciality teams play as well as more possible minutes for game situations that involve the need to score.

This 4th line stuff is so over-the-top. Hitch knows Filatov isn't Boll.

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Old
07-16-2009, 08:20 AM
  #39
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One line-up issue that I'm not hearing much discussion on: Torres may be the biggest defensive liability on the team, (He plays with more abandon than Huselius, so I'll say "may be") I can't imagine him playing on a third line that's expected to match up against the opponents' strength every night.

Plus, the last twenty games of the season, as his recovery progressed, there were times that he was a monster on the ice. If healthy for a whole season, he could be a 25-30 goal scorer. He doesn't do us any good toiling away on a fourth line, but he's not responsible enough defensively to play on our third.

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Old
07-16-2009, 09:11 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by section 204 View Post
One line-up issue that I'm not hearing much discussion on: Torres may be the biggest defensive liability on the team, (He plays with more abandon than Huselius, so I'll say "may be") I can't imagine him playing on a third line that's expected to match up against the opponents' strength every night.

Plus, the last twenty games of the season, as his recovery progressed, there were times that he was a monster on the ice. If healthy for a whole season, he could be a 25-30 goal scorer. He doesn't do us any good toiling away on a fourth line, but he's not responsible enough defensively to play on our third.
Hmm... maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see what you see in Torres' game. He was a key piece to Edmonton's checking line for their Stanley Cup run playing alongside Mike Peca.

And this "toiling away on the fourth line" stuff has to stop. Last year our "fourth line" started out as Chimera-Brassard-Voracek. Hitch likes rolling balanced lines, and if he can get a fourth line that he can play 12 minutes a night, I bet you he'd be thrilled. I can't remember the specific game, but there was one game last year when all the lines (outside of the top line) had about the same amount of ice time and we absolutely dominated because we completely wore out the other team.

Hitch isn't going to play a fourth line of Torres-Murray-Filatov the same way he'd play a fourth line of Shelley-Peca-Boll.

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Old
07-16-2009, 09:20 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
And back to this again. Hitch will find minutes for players even if they play the 4th line, if they earn it. There is nothing wrong with 8 minutes of 5 on 5 if you're getting 2-3 minutes of PP time. Plus the 4th line isn't likely to be scrubs. Meaning we could have one of the more dangerous 4th lines in hockey. Meaning Hitch might want to roll 4 lines more in the first couple of periods for the top lines being fresh in the 3rd.

Hitch would likely allow him to fill in for the odd shift when players have been on for speciality teams play as well as more possible minutes for game situations that involve the need to score.

This 4th line stuff is so over-the-top. Hitch knows Filatov isn't Boll.
I'm not going to argue with you about every comment I make for the rest of the season so I'll just say I disagree, fourth line duty for Filatov even in Hitchcocks world is not going to do him much good. I can see him playing on that line for a few games but if it's long term he may as well get first line minutes in the AHL.

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Old
07-16-2009, 09:23 AM
  #42
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I'd roll this second line at home

Filatov - Vermette- Voracek

This second line on the road (Filly likely on the fourth)

Umberger - Vermette - Voracek

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07-16-2009, 12:01 PM
  #43
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If we re-sign Methot and don't land a UFA or trade for a d-man... who becomes our 7th?

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Old
07-16-2009, 12:24 PM
  #44
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I'm not going to argue with you about every comment I make for the rest of the season so I'll just say I disagree, fourth line duty for Filatov even in Hitchcocks world is not going to do him much good. I can see him playing on that line for a few games but if it's long term he may as well get first line minutes in the AHL.
So, is there anything wrong with playing 8 minutes of 5 on 5 and 2-3 minutes of PP time a game with someone like Modin or Chimera? And what isn't going to do him much good, exactly?

And get real, there have been numerous posts the last few days that were simply converstation between the two of us.

Truthfully Robert, this is why I respond. I don't know why you say the things you do. You just say them and don't back them up. This would not be the first top talent to follow this route. These things are said by many people, but no one can back it up other then saying "He would have crap linemates" or "He needs more minutes". No one ever bothers to debate the value of 10 minutes of NHL time versus 18 minutes of AHL time.

I agree that sending him to the Siberian dog house and giving him 4-5 minutes a game isn't going to do him much good. But Hitch would just scratch him if that was going to happen and force Howson's hand. He did it last year and he did it to Brassard.

When someone actually gives me a good, logical, well thought out reason why what I said is bad for handling Filatov I'll be happy to back off. I am trying to come to these forums for well thought out opinions and debate, not just the spewing of traditional wisdom that may not apply to a situation.

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07-16-2009, 12:30 PM
  #45
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Don't Brule Filatov!!!

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Old
07-16-2009, 12:37 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by LaCosta Nostra View Post
Don't Brule Filatov!!!
Filatov currently has 1/3rd the number of goals scored by Brule






in 138 fewer games.

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Old
07-16-2009, 12:37 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by LaCosta Nostra View Post
Don't Brule Filatov!!!
I'm sure Hitch and Howson aren't going to bring him up and put him on the second line when it's obvious he's not ready.

So not the least bit afraid there.

I still think the correct thing to say there is "Filatov, don't Brule yourself!".

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Old
07-16-2009, 12:47 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
So, is there anything wrong with playing 8 minutes of 5 on 5 and 2-3 minutes of PP time a game with someone like Modin or Chimera? And what isn't going to do him much good, exactly?

And get real, there have been numerous posts the last few days that were simply converstation between the two of us.

Truthfully Robert, this is why I respond. I don't know why you say the things you do. You just say them and don't back them up. This would not be the first top talent to follow this route. These things are said by many people, but no one can back it up other then saying "He would have crap linemates" or "He needs more minutes". No one ever bothers to debate the value of 10 minutes of NHL time versus 18 minutes of AHL time.

I agree that sending him to the Siberian dog house and giving him 4-5 minutes a game isn't going to do him much good. But Hitch would just scratch him if that was going to happen and force Howson's hand. He did it last year and he did it to Brassard.

When someone actually gives me a good, logical, well thought out reason why what I said is bad for handling Filatov I'll be happy to back off. I am trying to come to these forums for well thought out opinions and debate, not just the spewing of traditional wisdom that may not apply to a situation.
The fourth line is not going to help him if that's where he is played long term, if that's the plan he should stay in the AHL. It doesn't need backing up to know he's small and will probably struggle defensively, which is the main reason he could use more time in the AHL. I don't think he will ever be a two way player to degree of Voracek or Nash regardless of 4th line experience. He's pretty much an offensive power house imo. If Howson is set on playing him this season it must be for his offensive upside, if so he needs to be on a scoring line. As Blake said, start him on the 4th then move him up-hopefully by mid November. But get him on a scoring line or send him down.

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07-16-2009, 12:49 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJSlash View Post
I'd roll this second line at home

Filatov - Vermette- Voracek

This second line on the road (Filly likely on the fourth)

Umberger - Vermette - Voracek
Interesting. I could see this. Both lines look exciting.

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Old
07-16-2009, 01:10 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by LaCosta Nostra View Post
If we re-sign Methot and don't land a UFA or trade for a d-man... who becomes our 7th?
My money is on Nick Holden.

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