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Old
07-16-2009, 01:16 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
The fourth line is not going to help him if that's where he is played long term, if that's the plan he should stay in the AHL. It doesn't need backing up to know he's small and will probably struggle defensively, which is the main reason he could use more time in the AHL. I don't think he will ever be a two way player to degree of Voracek or Nash regardless of 4th line experience. He's pretty much an offensive power house imo. If Howson is set on playing him this season it must be for his offensive upside, if so he needs to be on a scoring line. As Blake said, start him on the 4th then move him up-hopefully by mid November. But get him on a scoring line or send him down.
Ok, that's fine. You just answered with what you said before. I'll just assume you don't have anything to back up your thinking.

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07-16-2009, 01:28 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Ok, that's fine. You just answered with what you said before. I'll just assume you don't have anything to back up your thinking.
It's common sense based on what Filatov is as a player, do you want his bio? Filatov is a tiny player that can skate circles around people and has a knack for scoring goals, no one knows for sure but I doubt he will ever be the so called "Hitch type player" (and don't ask me to explain that again-look it up).

Why don't you explain why my thinking on Filatov is wrong?

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07-16-2009, 01:31 PM
  #53
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If we re-sign Methot and don't land a UFA or trade for a d-man... who becomes our 7th?
Mathieu Roy, maybe?

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Old
07-16-2009, 01:42 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
It's common sense based on what Filatov is as a player, do you want his bio? Filatov is a tiny player that can skate circles around people and has a knack for scoring goals, no one knows for sure but I doubt he will ever be the so called "Hitch type player" (and don't ask me to explain that again-look it up).

Why don't you explain why my thinking on Filatov is wrong?
No one questioned Filatov's skill. I don't think that's relevent to this discussion, beyond we want to add that skill to the team.

The 5 on 5 time is introduction to the speed and competitive level of the game and learn the system. The PP time is to help the team. He'll get some top 6 minutes in situational play. He'll be matched up with other teams less skilled and defensive players. As others said with the 3rd line he'll be matched up more with the other teams top players.

I think there is great value in this.

In the AHL, you have less control over his development.

I wasn't going to ask you about a Hitch type player, mainly because I think there are players on this team that aren't what you define as Hitch players (and many, many, in the past) and they still get plenty of ice time. Meaning, I think Hitch is smart enough to realize that some of your team will not be the type of player you desire.

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07-16-2009, 01:58 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
No one questioned Filatov's skill. I don't think that's relevent to this discussion, beyond we want to add that skill to the team.

The 5 on 5 time is introduction to the speed and competitive level of the game and learn the system. The PP time is to help the team. He'll get some top 6 minutes in situational play. He'll be matched up with other teams less skilled and defensive players. As others said with the 3rd line he'll be matched up more with the other teams top players.

I think there is great value in this.

In the AHL, you have less control over his development.

I wasn't going to ask you about a Hitch type player, mainly because I think there are players on this team that aren't what you define as Hitch players (and many, many, in the past) and they still get plenty of ice time. Meaning, I think Hitch is smart enough to realize that some of your team will not be the type of player you desire.
Agreed. Plus, more time in the AHL isn't going to make him grow.

If he is to spend more time in the AHL it will be because he hasn't shown comittment to doing the other things that help the team win.

Whether he wins the board battles or not, it is irrelevant. Whether he even tries is everything. It is no secret he is small guy and nobody will expect him to be a dynamo on the walls, nor do they expect him to check people off the puck, but if he is trying, that is all that will be asked.

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07-16-2009, 02:03 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
No one questioned Filatov's skill. I don't think that's relevent to this discussion, beyond we want to add that skill to the team.

The 5 on 5 time is introduction to the speed and competitive level of the game and learn the system. The PP time is to help the team. He'll get some top 6 minutes in situational play. He'll be matched up with other teams less skilled and defensive players. As others said with the 3rd line he'll be matched up more with the other teams top players.

I think there is great value in this.

In the AHL, you have less control over his development.

I wasn't going to ask you about a Hitch type player, mainly because I think there are players on this team that aren't what you define as Hitch players (and many, many, in the past) and they still get plenty of ice time. Meaning, I think Hitch is smart enough to realize that some of your team will not be the type of player you desire.
I think my major concern playing him to much or to long in a non scoring role, which I consider akin to playing on the 4th line in the NHL, is a negative impact on his self confidence if he fails to reach a defensive abilty expected by the coaching staff. Anyway, here's a recent profile from HF futures:

Quote:
A talented scoring forward who is capable of creating offensive chances for himself and his linemates. Possesses excellent skating ability and a very quick top gear. An above average puckhandler, but is not as effective in traffic and this is something that he has been working and improving over the past season. Hasn’t yet filled in his 6’0 frame, though has gained about 7-10 pounds of bulk over the past season. Does not have a strong physical presence and will likely continue developing and becoming more capable of handling physical pressure, but will not likely ever be able to dish it out at the same level due to his size limitations. Has a very dangerous wrist shot and very soft hands – capable of making very precise passes. Defensively tries to help, but is marginal in his own zone, preferring to break out into an offensive rush. Overall a very talented forward who continues to improve every year and doesn’t hesitate to take on challenges.

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07-16-2009, 02:13 PM
  #57
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Here's another from HF (dated April, 09):

Nikita Filatov - LW - Columbus Blue Jackets
Height: 6-0, Weight: 172
Filatov keeps on rising, and for good reason. The Russian winger is a tremendous goal scorer with an overpowering wrist shot. And Filatov showed his devotion to an NHL future by coming over and playing in the AHL as an 18-year-old. He was also recalled to the NHL briefly -- scoring a hat trick -- and was exquisite in the WJCs (top goal scorer). He is still adjusting to the North American game and, like most his age, he needs to fill out his frame and add strength. But it is undeniable that the speedy Filatov has about the highest offensive ceiling as any drafted prospect in the world right now.



That sounds pretty good to me! I'm beginning to think it would be a huge surprise if Nik doesn't begin the year in Columbus. Whether he starts out on the 4th line or elsewhere, he can bring something to the ice that we desparately need - scoring!

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07-16-2009, 02:16 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
I think my major concern playing him to much or to long in a non scoring role, which I consider akin to playing on the 4th line in the NHL, is a negative impact on his self confidence if he fails to reach a defensive abilty expected by the coaching staff. Anyway, here's a recent profile from HF futures:
That's fine, if that's your major concern. I can see the fustration level arguement, even if I don't think it's an issue in this case.

Filatov will score points. He'd score points playing with Jody Shelly. I'm more concerned with other teams scoring on him.

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07-16-2009, 02:18 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
It's common sense based on what Filatov is as a player, do you want his bio? Filatov is a tiny player that can skate circles around people and has a knack for scoring goals, no one knows for sure but I doubt he will ever be the so called "Hitch type player" (and don't ask me to explain that again-look it up).

Why don't you explain why my thinking on Filatov is wrong?
Look it up? Where? On these boards? In the media? The consensus about what is a Hitch-type player is so far off it is humorous. I have repeatedly explained Hitch's expectations of his players, yet this silliness continues to be repeated.

I have no idea why there is this fear that Filatov will be mishandled. Was Jake mishandled or did he suffer from the way Hitch played him?

Honestly, I would think the only area Jake suffered was being played on the pp out of necessity. 4 pp points and zero goals while never missing a 2nd unit pp assignment tells me that he wasn't ready, yet he was counted on by the management and the staff to get the job done.

In turn he feels bad for not helping the team, his confidence declines and the coaching starts to wear him out sooner than it should. Jake shouldn't have been in a position to play on the pp on a consistent basis. This is where we need that stop gap type of retreat that will allow Jake to get used to the league, used to how smart the defenders are, and used to how quick they pressure you.

If anything this is one area where Hitch went against he normally does and put a kid in a position for failure, not success by playing him too much. Why? Who else was he going to put there consistently? Andrew Murray? Dorsett?


Last edited by hashmarks: 07-16-2009 at 02:23 PM.
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Old
07-16-2009, 02:18 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Nikita Filatov - LW - Columbus Blue Jackets
Height: 6-0, Weight: 172
Filatov keeps on rising, and for good reason. The Russian winger is a tremendous goal scorer with an overpowering wrist shot. And Filatov showed his devotion to an NHL future by coming over and playing in the AHL as an 18-year-old. He was also recalled to the NHL briefly -- scoring a hat trick -- and was exquisite in the WJCs (top goal scorer). He is still adjusting to the North American game and, like most his age, he needs to fill out his frame and add strength. But it is undeniable that the speedy Filatov has about the highest offensive ceiling as any drafted prospect in the world right now.



That sounds pretty good to me! I'm beginning to think it would be a huge surprise if Nik doesn't begin the year in Columbus. Whether he starts out on the 4th line or elsewhere, he can bring something to the ice that we desparately need - scoring!
Sounds even better than the profile I addressed, he could be that offensive threat we've needed for years. He will help his team and teammates in time by scoring and scoring often, I hope.

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07-16-2009, 02:18 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
That sounds pretty good to me! I'm beginning to think it would be a huge surprise if Nik doesn't begin the year in Columbus. Whether he starts out on the 4th line or elsewhere, he can bring something to the ice that we desparately need - scoring!
The flip side is if you have Modin and Filatov on the 4th line you bring a huge amount of secondary scoring capabilities that teams could have a very hard time matching up with.

It's almost like have a second second line.

I mean, could you imagine being an energy line and being thrown out against a line with those two and Dorsett thrown in for grins? You're just fighting to get off the ice with no damage.

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07-16-2009, 02:21 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
The flip side is if you have Modin and Filatov on the 4th line you bring a huge amount of secondary scoring capabilities that teams could have a very hard time matching up with.

It's almost like have a second second line.
Agreed. If our 4th line can carry extra weight they earn more minutes, which keeps everyone healthier in this long grind of a season. I don't see logjams as a huge problem in a sport where injuries are to be expected.

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07-16-2009, 02:25 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
I think my major concern playing him to much or to long in a non scoring role, which I consider akin to playing on the 4th line in the NHL, is a negative impact on his self confidence if he fails to reach a defensive abilty expected by the coaching staff.
That's your problem. "Fourth line" does not immediately and forever mean "non-scoring" nowadays. It's a question of time played - and as a youngster who's never played a full season before, I think bringing him in slowly - like what was done with Brass and Jake - is the right thing to do.

Just because he starts out on the fourth line doesn't mean he's doomed to 4-6 minutes/game every game for the rest of the year no matter how well or poorly he does. Our depth chart is not a suicide pact.

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07-16-2009, 02:27 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
That's your problem. "Fourth line" does not immediately and forever mean "non-scoring" nowadays. It's a question of time played - and as a youngster who's never played a full season before, I think bringing him in slowly - like what was done with Brass and Jake - is the right thing to do.

Just because he starts out on the fourth line doesn't mean he's doomed to 6-8 minutes/game every game for the rest of the year no matter how well or poorly he does. Our depth chart is not a suicide pact.
...as well as whom he plays against. Too many people are hung up on line numbering and extract connotations from that.

Good post.

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07-16-2009, 02:39 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
The flip side is if you have Modin and Filatov on the 4th line you bring a huge amount of secondary scoring capabilities that teams could have a very hard time matching up with.

It's almost like have a second second line.

I mean, could you imagine being an energy line and being thrown out against a line with those two and Dorsett thrown in for grins? You're just fighting to get off the ice with no damage.

I agree. We've seen a great deal of negativity regarding Modin and, based on his recent injury history, much of it is deserved. However, should he return to the ice in good health and motivated to contribute, he can be a major factor in the development of the youngsters. His dedication and his willingness to play in pain, last year, can be a great example in creating a new image for the CBJ as an honest, tough, unrelenting team. Dare I say it, hard to play against? Toss in guys like Dorsett and Murray, who also play "heavy," with a kid who has the offensive potential of Nikita, and the bottom six suddenly becomes a very different proposition for opponents to deal with!

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07-16-2009, 03:44 PM
  #66
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...as well as whom he plays against. Too many people are hung up on line numbering and extract connotations from that.

Good post.
To me, it's all about finding a middle ground between pushing too hard and not enough. I think the young players we're talking about here really want to be successful, are motivated and want to be challenged, otherwise they wouldn't have had the success they've already had. So you have to give them some challenges, let them experience a certain amount of success and failure on their own. But then you have to pull back and manage it, and create a strong support system, so when things go off the rails (as they always do), they have a way to process it and grow from it. I think guys like Hitchcock and Howson really have shown me they have a sense for managing that process intelligently.

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07-16-2009, 04:43 PM
  #67
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Look it up? Where? On these boards? In the media? The consensus about what is a Hitch-type player is so far off it is humorous. I have repeatedly explained Hitch's expectations of his players, yet this silliness continues to be repeated.

I have no idea why there is this fear that Filatov will be mishandled. Was Jake mishandled or did he suffer from the way Hitch played him?

Honestly, I would think the only area Jake suffered was being played on the pp out of necessity. 4 pp points and zero goals while never missing a 2nd unit pp assignment tells me that he wasn't ready, yet he was counted on by the management and the staff to get the job done.

In turn he feels bad for not helping the team, his confidence declines and the coaching starts to wear him out sooner than it should. Jake shouldn't have been in a position to play on the pp on a consistent basis. This is where we need that stop gap type of retreat that will allow Jake to get used to the league, used to how smart the defenders are, and used to how quick they pressure you.

If anything this is one area where Hitch went against he normally does and put a kid in a position for failure, not success by playing him too much. Why? Who else was he going to put there consistently? Andrew Murray? Dorsett?
As a side note: those are some interesting points about Jake on the power play.

Do you think he'll be better adjusted this year? Or, if they have enough bodies, do you think they'll do what you suggest they would have done this past year? Or, could you see him getting another shot playing the point, again if needed, where it has been mentioned he had some success in juniors?

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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
The flip side is if you have Modin and Filatov on the 4th line you bring a huge amount of secondary scoring capabilities that teams could have a very hard time matching up with.

It's almost like have a second second line.

I mean, could you imagine being an energy line and being thrown out against a line with those two and Dorsett thrown in for grins? You're just fighting to get off the ice with no damage.
I get a bit giddy at the thought of that.

When a team rolls out their 4th line in Nationwide, and we do too, except ours has some combination of Filatov/Modin/Chimera/Murray/Dorsett... that could be dangerous. By the time they get off the ice, we've got Nash and Brassard or Umberger and Vermette coming over the boards...

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07-16-2009, 07:51 PM
  #68
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As a side note: those are some interesting points about Jake on the power play.

Do you think he'll be better adjusted this year? Or, if they have enough bodies, do you think they'll do what you suggest they would have done this past year? Or, could you see him getting another shot playing the point, again if needed, where it has been mentioned he had some success in juniors?
I think he will definitely be better adjusted this year, both physically and mentally. I think they are going to start the season with him in a top 6 role and see how he responds. Of course, adjustments will be made accordingly.

I have heard some discussion of him on the point on the pp, but in jr. he had a guy who could really rifle the one timer. We don't have that (as of today) therefore his passing ability while on the half-wall may be most effective.

I think Hitch will expect more give and go type plays from Jake...pass it off and then head to the net. He is a big body and has to get used to being in the fray. I also think they are really going to encourage him to shoot more. He is a passer first and foremost and opts not to shoot, especially at this level.

As soon as the league sniffs this out, he becomes very easy to defend...take his options away and he is ineffective in a hurry. If he mixes it up with his shot sometimes he becomes unpredictable and teams will have to back off of him.

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07-16-2009, 08:18 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
I think he will definitely be better adjusted this year, both physically and mentally. I think they are going to start the season with him in a top 6 role and see how he responds. Of course, adjustments will be made accordingly.

I have heard some discussion of him on the point on the pp, but in jr. he had a guy who could really rifle the one timer. We don't have that (as of today) therefore his passing ability while on the half-wall may be most effective.

I think Hitch will expect more give and go type plays from Jake...pass it off and then head to the net. He is a big body and has to get used to being in the fray. I also think they are really going to encourage him to shoot more. He is a passer first and foremost and opts not to shoot, especially at this level.

As soon as the league sniffs this out, he becomes very easy to defend...take his options away and he is ineffective in a hurry. If he mixes it up with his shot sometimes he becomes unpredictable and teams will have to back off of him.
I definitely like this post. I have a thought to add:

A lot of people compare Jake to Ales Hemsky. I checked his stats against Ales Hemsky's first year stats:

Hemsky: 59 games, 6 goals, 24 assists, 30 points, +5, 14 PIM, 50 SOG
Jake: 80 games, 9 goals, 29 assists, 38 points, +11, 44 PIM, 101 SOG

I was kinda surprised at the shot differential between the two. I agree Jake needs to shoot more next year--namely for much of what hashmarks said. I definitely expect improvement from him this year. 60 points? I doubt that, unless he gets moved up with Nash and Brass early on and sticks (which I'd be thrilled about), but I can definitely see a 15-35-50 season out of him, with some serious improvement in PP points. (didn't he only have 4 assists on the PP last year?)

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07-16-2009, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by CBJFan827 View Post
I definitely like this post. I have a thought to add:

A lot of people compare Jake to Ales Hemsky. I checked his stats against Ales Hemsky's first year stats:

Hemsky: 59 games, 6 goals, 24 assists, 30 points, +5, 14 PIM, 50 SOG
Jake: 80 games, 9 goals, 29 assists, 38 points, +11, 44 PIM, 101 SOG
Interesting, I was meaning to check Jake's SOG so thanks for that info.

Quote:
I definitely expect improvement from him this year. 60 points? I doubt that, unless he gets moved up with Nash and Brass early on and sticks (which I'd be thrilled about), but I can definitely see a 15-35-50 season out of him, with some serious improvement in PP points. (didn't he only have 4 assists on the PP last year?)
I think he can score 60+ on the 2nd line with Vermette and RJ. Both Vermette and Jake can make plays and RJ has proven he has no problem going to the net to score goals. Like you said, hopefully he can handle this responsibility and he sticks on that line.

He and Brass have great chemistry and can find each other well, I get the feeling that they think the offense in a similar fashion, but Brass will likely play up with Nasher (hopefully that sticks too ).

Hitch will mix and match them for sure, but camp will be fun to see how it all pans out on the ice.

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07-16-2009, 08:56 PM
  #71
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Substitute whomever we get as the offensive dman..

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Nash-Brassard-Juice
Filatov-Vermette-Voracek
Umberger-Phalsson-Torres
Boll-Chimera-Modin/Dorsett

Zubov*-Hejda
Commodore-Tyutin
Russell-Klesla

*It's been rumored that the Jackets are intrested in the PPQB.
But playing Filatov like Chicago plays Kane is what makes our top 6 dangerous..

Umberger Pahlson & a healthy Torres may be one of the best 3rd line combos in the game by Christmas...(there is enough offense hear to turn the tables)

I agree that Methot/ Russell will share time and Klesla should push Commie in the 2nd pairing. I have seen good things from Klesla and Toots..

It is very possible that Boll and or Dorsett will be gone if we get that ppq..

Which may make Chimera Murray and Modin a capable 4th line.

The rocks of the team continues to be the unheralded Jan Hedja... and of course Steve Mason...


Last edited by LetsGOJackets!!: 07-16-2009 at 09:02 PM.
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07-16-2009, 09:04 PM
  #72
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Nash-Brassard-Huselius(i'd like to see him bumped down a line potentially as the seaosn progresses)
Umberger(same as Huselius)-Vermette-Voracek
Filatov-Pahlsson-Torres
Chimera-Murray-Modin

Commodore-Hejda
Tyutin-Klesla
Russell-Methot

Mason
Garon

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07-16-2009, 09:11 PM
  #73
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Nash-Brassard-Huselius
Umberger-Vermette-Modin
Voracek-Pahlsson-Torres
Chimera-Murray-Dorsett
-Boll, Picard

Commodore-Hejda
Tyutin-Klesla
Russell-Methot

Mason
Garon

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07-16-2009, 09:26 PM
  #74
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I was thinking that umby and......Picard! will both have breakout seasons. anyone agree?

Why cant RJ have his playoffs kind of game the whole season. Not to mention playing with vermette all year which showed good chemistry. Also Jake will be with them.

Picard improved drastically in the Cuse this past season and im just hoping to god that he is just a late bloomer. if he is that will be very good for the jackets in a few years. He is definitely a Hitch player.

Oh and wasnt Filatov possibly a center last year?? i know hes too small but couldnt he possibly be down the line? And since when was dorsett a center? We have a very very deep lineup this year


Last edited by GoJackets1: 07-16-2009 at 09:29 PM. Reason: forgot something
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07-16-2009, 09:38 PM
  #75
hcs76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
Nash-Brassard-Huselius
Umberger-Vermette-Modin
Voracek-Pahlsson-Torres
Chimera-Murray-Dorsett
-Boll, Picard

Commodore-Hejda
Tyutin-Klesla
Russell-Methot

Mason
Garon
I assume you then would send Filatov to the minors (if you have already addressed I apologize)? Didn't he score .5 goals per game in the AHL as a teenager? IMO you have to engage and challenge your best performers, especially if they're young and still maturing. I just don't know if the AHL is the best place to challenge him.

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