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Old
07-16-2009, 09:43 PM
  #76
Robert
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Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
He and Brass have great chemistry and can find each other well, I get the feeling that they think the offense in a similar fashion, but Brass will likely play up with Nasher (hopefully that sticks too ).

Hitch will mix and match them for sure, but camp will be fun to see how it all pans out on the ice.
I don't think there is any alternative to playing Brassard with Nash on the top line. From what little I saw of him last season I thought he looked like a seasoned player and will excel with Nash.

As for Voracek, I'm not sure scoring goals is going to be his ultimate upside; helping others score, winning board battles and defending the neutral zone ice might be his strength.

The first month will see plenty of line juggling...

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07-16-2009, 10:17 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by gojackets1 View Post
I was thinking that umby and......Picard! will both have breakout seasons. anyone agree?
People are have written him off or are kind of passing over him, but I don't think it is out of this world to think he might finally be able to contribute in the league. He has good size and seems to have found his scoring in the AHL last year.

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Why cant RJ have his playoffs kind of game the whole season. Not to mention playing with vermette all year which showed good chemistry. Also Jake will be with them.
He scored 26 goals--double from the previous year, I'd say that's acceptable! Two playoffs in a row this guy has been a beast, that is a good sign for our future.

I think Dorsett practiced as a center a time or two towards the end of last summer.

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07-16-2009, 10:20 PM
  #78
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I don't think there is any alternative to playing Brassard with Nash on the top line.
If it doesn't work, they will have to move someone up, a likely candidate would be Vermette. Brassard is hoped to be able to play with Nash, he has yet to prove that he can handle playing vs. other teams' best defending players.

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From what little I saw of him last season I thought he looked like a seasoned player and will excel with Nash.
He rarely played vs. the other teams' top players before he got hurt. How he can handle this task is yet to be determined.

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07-16-2009, 10:35 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
If it doesn't work, they will have to move someone up, a likely candidate would be Vermette. Brassard is hoped to be able to play with Nash, he has yet to prove that he can handle playing vs. other teams' best defending players.
Vermette may get spot duty on the top line or be forced there if Brassard is injured but he's no first line center, he will have his hands full cementing the second line.

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07-16-2009, 11:08 PM
  #80
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Vermette may get spot duty on the top line or be forced there if Brassard is injured but he's no first line center, he will have his hands full cementing the second line.
Um..yeah...we all know that. We still don't have a legit top line center...Brassard has yet to prove that he can be that guy...which is why I said a likely candidate...not an ideal candidate.

Wow.

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07-17-2009, 01:19 AM
  #81
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My Blue Jackets lines would look something like:

Nash-Brassard-Huselias
Filatov-Vermette-Voracek
Umberger-Pahlsson-Torres
Chimera-Murray-Dorsett

Commodore-Hejda
Tyutin Klesla
Russel-Methot

I think that the only way Filatov will make the team out of camp will be as a top 6 guy, otherwise there is no point in having him up to be on a checking line. I think Filatov will make the team.

Modin I think will be put on waivers or will possibly be traded for something like a 4th or 5th rounder.

The defense is what probably will change thouhg, becuase I think they will go out and trade for a DMan. I know Hitchcock loves Torres but he could possibly get them the piece they need in a trade. He is replaceable on the 3rd line with Chimera, who is replaceable onthe 4th line with Boll.

Overall if this team matures though, I could easily see them finishing 5th out West. Defintiely along witht he Blues the two big up and coming teams rihgt now out West.

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07-17-2009, 09:30 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
My Blue Jackets lines would look something like:

Nash-Brassard-Huselias
Filatov-Vermette-Voracek
Umberger-Pahlsson-Torres
Chimera-Murray-Dorsett

Commodore-Hejda
Tyutin Klesla
Russel-Methot

I think that the only way Filatov will make the team out of camp will be as a top 6 guy, otherwise there is no point in having him up to be on a checking line. I think Filatov will make the team.

Modin I think will be put on waivers or will possibly be traded for something like a 4th or 5th rounder.

The defense is what probably will change thouhg, becuase I think they will go out and trade for a DMan. I know Hitchcock loves Torres but he could possibly get them the piece they need in a trade. He is replaceable on the 3rd line with Chimera, who is replaceable onthe 4th line with Boll.

Overall if this team matures though, I could easily see them finishing 5th out West. Defintiely along witht he Blues the two big up and coming teams rihgt now out West.
I have to agree with your lines, except I would move Voracek to the 3rd line. As Robert pointed out above, you have to wonder if Voracek will be able to score enough goals to remain in the top 6. Sure he is a wonderful passer, almost makes me wonder if he shouldnt be converted to the center position. I cant see Voracek, and Vermette on the same line, as you need finishers paired with Vermette. My second line would be Filatov, Vermette, Umburger.

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07-17-2009, 09:56 AM
  #83
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I know you will think I am fool but I believe Alex Picard. Last season was first season without injury or with summer training and we saw his play in Syracuse.
Picard has had some really untimely injuries. It's hard not to feel for the guy. I really would like to see him in the NHL next season. I'm not sure if this is common knowledge around here, but he closed out last AHL season with 17 goals and 4 assists in his last 17 games. Pretty impressive. He provides a gritty presence down low and he adds a nice blend of toughness, speed and scoring potential in the bottom six.

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07-17-2009, 11:03 AM
  #84
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I have to agree with your lines, except I would move Voracek to the 3rd line. As Robert pointed out above, you have to wonder if Voracek will be able to score enough goals to remain in the top 6. Sure he is a wonderful passer, almost makes me wonder if he shouldnt be converted to the center position. I cant see Voracek, and Vermette on the same line, as you need finishers paired with Vermette. My second line would be Filatov, Vermette, Umburger.
Thats a minor problem that I couldn't find a way of getting out of. No matter what I think this is what it is:

They got two snipers (one defintiely top of the line sniper in Nash, and one possibly in Filatov. Lets be honest here, we really have no idea what to expect from Filatov if he makes the team going up against NHL competition night in and night out. He could put up 35 goals, or he could put up about 18 playing a full year, we have no clue. I think 25 is a good estimate personally). They have two pass first wingers (Huselias and Voracek), and they have two centers capable of the top 6 in Brassard and Vermette. Then there's the wild card in Umberger, who can do a little bit of everything, including playing physical hockey and be defensively responsible.

The question becomes: Is Voracek capable of playing on a great checking line that will be centered by Pahlsson? My personal answer is I think no he can't. Having Umberger on the third line gives you opportunities to have three lines you can expect goals from. Also, having Umberger on that line creates a legitimate shut down line that can go up against just about any top line out West. Voracek may not be the best fit on Vermette's line, but it's where he's slotted for now. My question to you is, do you see a better fit if you put Voracek up on the first line and Huselias on the 2nd? Thats pretty up in the air for me.

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07-17-2009, 11:37 AM
  #85
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The question becomes: Is Voracek capable of playing on a great checking line that will be centered by Pahlsson? My personal answer is I think no he can't. Having Umberger on the third line gives you opportunities to have three lines you can expect goals from. Also, having Umberger on that line creates a legitimate shut down line that can go up against just about any top line out West. Voracek may not be the best fit on Vermette's line, but it's where he's slotted for now. My question to you is, do you see a better fit if you put Voracek up on the first line and Huselias on the 2nd? Thats pretty up in the air for me.
That's a good question. On one hand he finished the season +12, an amazing total for a rookie. Clearly he can play defense. But on a dedicated checking line? After all, he's not 20 yet. He has the frame to win board battles and in a couple years will win a lot of them as he finishes becoming a man.

The question about Filatov is down the road. He's probably the best pure sniper we have (Nash really isn't oner). He's not going to play on the top two lines, except under specific circumstances (like we're trailing late and need a goal) And the third line has different goals then the first-- that's more a game for Chimmer, Modin and Torres. Voraceck and Umberger are too good on offense to consign to a checking line.

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07-17-2009, 11:58 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by FlaggerX View Post
That's a good question. On one hand he finished the season +12, an amazing total for a rookie. Clearly he can play defense. But on a dedicated checking line? After all, he's not 20 yet. He has the frame to win board battles and in a couple years will win a lot of them as he finishes becoming a man.

The question about Filatov is down the road. He's probably the best pure sniper we have (Nash really isn't oner). He's not going to play on the top two lines, except under specific circumstances (like we're trailing late and need a goal) And the third line has different goals then the first-- that's more a game for Chimmer, Modin and Torres. Voraceck and Umberger are too good on offense to consign to a checking line.
Well if Filatov doesn't make the team (I'll be shocked personally ifhe doesn't) then this kinda sets itself up with Umberger on the second line in Filatov's place and Chimera-Pahlsson-Torres as a shut down checking line. But if Filatov does I'd be surprised if they plan to use him on the 4th line (I don't see them putting him on their shut down defensive 3rd line with Pahlsson). If you're going to do that you might as well put him back in the minors so he can get more than 6 minutes a game.

Umberger is just more capable as a checking line type player than Voracek at this point so that's why I think he slots onto Pahlsson's line. But that line isn't just solely a checking line either. A line with Umberger, Pahlsson, and Torres will put up some goals as well. Obviously Pahlsson isn't the best offensive player but he can at least cycle the puck around in the zone to try and set up Umberger and Torres.

Like I said though, if Filatov doesn't make the team then this kinda works itself out.

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07-17-2009, 12:03 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by FlaggerX View Post
That's a good question. On one hand he finished the season +12, an amazing total for a rookie. Clearly he can play defense. But on a dedicated checking line? After all, he's not 20 yet. He has the frame to win board battles and in a couple years will win a lot of them as he finishes becoming a man.

The question about Filatov is down the road. He's probably the best pure sniper we have (Nash really isn't oner). He's not going to play on the top two lines, except under specific circumstances (like we're trailing late and need a goal) And the third line has different goals then the first-- that's more a game for Chimmer, Modin and Torres. Voraceck and Umberger are too good on offense to consign to a checking line.
I think you are kind of making my point. Filatov is pure offense, if I remember correctly from seeing him in the worlds, Syracuse, and the Cbj, he is also a really good passer with good vison. Voracek will be much better suited for the 3rd line because of his defense, and checking ability, as well as his lack of goal scoring. I expect 25-31 goals this year from Filatov, Voracek with 15-18 goals. I cant see Filatov on the third line, and I know from multiple interviews I have heard where Howson discusses Filatov on the CBJ this year, they want him to do what he does best, and thats score.

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07-17-2009, 12:13 PM
  #88
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Well if Filatov doesn't make the team (I'll be shocked personally ifhe doesn't) then this kinda sets itself up with Umberger on the second line in Filatov's place and Chimera-Pahlsson-Torres as a shut down checking line. But if Filatov does I'd be surprised if they plan to use him on the 4th line (I don't see them putting him on their shut down defensive 3rd line with Pahlsson).

Like I said though, if Filatov doesn't make the team then this kinda works itself out.
You may want to go back and see how Hitch has used young players in the past, the 05/06 Flyers perhaps.

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07-17-2009, 12:34 PM
  #89
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You may want to go back and see how Hitch has used young players in the past, the 05/06 Flyers perhaps.
Um.... okay... You're kinda making my point for me... Flyers had 3 rookies that year.

Mike Richards: Obviously Richards is suited well to be a 3rd line center. Great defensively.

Jeff Carter: Played 2nd line a majority of the time. Averaged around 12 minutes a game. Finished 5th among Flyer forwards in points, 3rd in goals.

RJ Umberger: Again played 2nd line a lot of the time. 13 minutes a game, 6th among Flyer forwards in points, 4th in goals.

On top of that, when Carter and Umberger did play 3rd line duty, they are bigger and much more physical players than Filatov and can be much more effective in that role. Filatov is a pure offensive player, and a good one at that. Again, I'd be surprised to see Filatov not playing 2nd line minutes if he makes the team.

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07-17-2009, 12:41 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post

Again, I'd be surprised to see Filatov not playing 2nd line minutes if he makes the team.
If he earns it and is capable he will be, but not before then.


Last edited by hashmarks: 07-17-2009 at 12:50 PM.
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07-17-2009, 12:43 PM
  #91
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If he earns it and is capable he will be, but not before then.
Well of course he must earn it. I'm jsut saying that I believe that he will earn to play 2nd line minutes. If not he will go back to the minors, not play checking line minutes.

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07-17-2009, 12:51 PM
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Well of course he must earn it. I'm jsut saying that I believe that he will earn to play 2nd line minutes. If not he will go back to the minors, not play checking line minutes.
I just reread your post a little more closely and some things don't measure up.

The 2nd line in philly played 12 minutes a game? Carter played 4th line center, RJ played the wing on the 4th line along with Sami Kapanen. Richards played 3rd line center with Handzus on the wing (who would take some of the faceoffs for Richards) and Radiovijvic (however you spell it). Carter and Umberger played on the pp together.

If the 2nd line played 12/13 minutes, how many did the top line play? 28?

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07-17-2009, 01:05 PM
  #93
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I just reread your post a little more closely and some things don't measure up.

The 2nd line in philly played 12 minutes a game? Carter played 4th line center, RJ played the wing on the 4th line along with Sami Kapanen. Richards played 3rd line center with Handzus on the wing (who would take some of the faceoffs for Richards) and Radiovijvic (however you spell it). Carter and Umberger played on the pp together.

If the 2nd line played 12/13 minutes, how many did the top line play? 28?
I was actually half wrong on my statement. Due to the fact that the Flyers were so injured that season (Forsberg played 60 games, Kapanen 58 games, Nedved 53 games, Primeau played 9 games, even Handzus and Gagne were guys that played the most games that year as a forward and still missed 10 games each). So due to that fact, Carter and Umberger's minutes and line statuses were very volatile. I knew I remembered those two playing 2nd line that season. The injuries were why.

Either way these three players are very different players than Filatov. Filatov is not a capable checking forward. Those three players are all very different than Filatov as that they have the ability to play on the 3rd and 4th lines. Filatov will make the team as a 2nd line forward or will not make the team right off the bat.

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07-17-2009, 01:10 PM
  #94
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Um.... okay... You're kinda making my point for me... Flyers had 3 rookies that year.

Mike Richards: Obviously Richards is suited well to be a 3rd line center. Great defensively.

Jeff Carter: Played 2nd line a majority of the time. Averaged around 12 minutes a game. Finished 5th among Flyer forwards in points, 3rd in goals.

RJ Umberger: Again played 2nd line a lot of the time. 13 minutes a game, 6th among Flyer forwards in points, 4th in goals.

On top of that, when Carter and Umberger did play 3rd line duty, they are bigger and much more physical players than Filatov and can be much more effective in that role. Filatov is a pure offensive player, and a good one at that. Again, I'd be surprised to see Filatov not playing 2nd line minutes if he makes the team.
You do realize that Jeff Carter played around 6 minutes a night for his first month and was scoring some of his goals with guys like Jon Sim right? I guess Carter and Sharp were anchoring the 2nd line playing 5 minutes of even strenght a night eh?

Toward the end of the season some games he played around 8 minutes of 5 on 5, with some additional PP time. Some games he moved up the lineup, some game down.

Unless you considered a RJ/Carter/Dimitrakos line, with about 8 minutes of 5 on 5 time, a second line.

But hey, believe what you want to.

I hope Filatov gets ruined like Carter did.

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07-17-2009, 01:11 PM
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I was actually half wrong on my statement. Due to the fact that the Flyers were so injured that season (Forsberg played 60 games, Kapanen 58 games, Nedved 53 games, Primeau played 9 games, even Handzus and Gagne were guys that played the most games that year as a forward and still missed 10 games each). So due to that fact, Carter and Umberger's minutes and line statuses were very volatile. I knew I remembered those two playing 2nd line that season. The injuries were why.
Correct.

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Filatov will make the team as a 2nd line forward or will not make the team right off the bat.
Incorrect. Filatov will be handled the same way Brassard and Voracek were, 5 on 5 and pp time which will equate to between 12-15 minutes per night. If he proves capable of playing vs. better players, he will be moved up accordingly. My thinking is if Pat Kane can play in the league and be successful, it shouldn't be long before Filatov can, but he won't be kept off the team because he can't check.

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07-17-2009, 01:13 PM
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Either way these three players are very different players than Filatov. Filatov is not a capable checking forward. Those three players are all very different than Filatov as that they have the ability to play on the 3rd and 4th lines. Filatov will make the team as a 2nd line forward or will not make the team right off the bat.
Read my previous post about the treatment of Carter the first couple of months. With injuries Filatov could easily move up.

Thanks for enlightening me.

How Filatov starts may not reflect how he finishes. But whatever.

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07-17-2009, 01:18 PM
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You do realize that Jeff Carter played around 6 minutes a night for his first month and was scoring some of his goals with guys like Jon Sim right? I guess Carter and Sharp were anchoring the 2nd line playing 5 minutes of even strenght a night eh?

Toward the end of the season some games he played around 8 minutes of 5 on 5, with some additional PP time. Some games he moved up the lineup, some game down.

Unless you considered a RJ/Carter/Dimitrakos line, with about 8 minutes of 5 on 5 time, a second line.

But hey, believe what you want to.

I hope Filatov gets ruined like Carter did.
Read my post above I was half wrong. I remembered watching Penguin games where Carter and/or Umberger would be playing 2nd line. It was when their team was hurt they were doign it. Carter ended up averaging 9M even strength time a game, Umberger 10M. Considering for the first month he was averaging 6M of ice time, to end up averaging 9M of ES ice time for the year means he was playing some time 2nd line. I was wrong in saying a majority of time. Injuries ravaged their team that year, and when that happened he and Umberger did play some 2nd line.

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07-17-2009, 01:22 PM
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Correct.



Incorrect. Filatov will be handled the same way Brassard and Voracek were, 5 on 5 and pp time which will equate to between 12-15 minutes per night. If he proves capable of playing vs. better players, he will be moved up accordingly. My thinking is if Pat Kane can play in the league and be successful, it shouldn't be long before Filatov can, but he won't be kept off the team because he can't check.
Again, Pat Kane was never a 3rd liner. He began in the top 6. Led team in scoring, 3rd in minutes per game by forwards on team. This is the type of path I think FIlatov will take (not leading team in scoring, but beginning in top 6).

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07-17-2009, 01:26 PM
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Read my post above I was half wrong. I remembered watching Penguin games where Carter and/or Umberger would be playing 2nd line. It was when their team was hurt they were doign it. Carter ended up averaging 9M even strength time a game, Umberger 10M. Considering for the first month he was averaging 6M of ice time, to end up averaging 9M of ES ice time for the year means he was playing some time 2nd line. I was wrong in saying a majority of time. Injuries ravaged their team that year, and when that happened he and Umberger did play some 2nd line.
And I have no idea what that has to do with Carter and his slow introduction in the first couple of months to the season. Your initial point was there was no way Filatov was going to come in and play on the 4th line (and those minutes). I simply said look at Hitch's history.

You still think there is no way Filatov couldn't come in on the 4th line? Especially if Chimera or Modin were on the off-wing?

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07-17-2009, 01:31 PM
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And I have no idea what that has to do with Carter and his slow introduction in the first couple of months to the season. Your initial point was there was no way Filatov was going to come in and play on the 4th line (and those minutes). I simply said look at Hitch's history.

You still think there is no way Filatov couldn't come in on the 4th line? Especially if Chimera or Modin were on the off-wing?
Its not that he isn't capable of it he would be. Its more that I think they'd rather him get 18M a night in his proper role in Syracuse rather than 7M a night in Columbus in more of a checking line role.

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