HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

All Eyes on Atlanta

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-15-2009, 10:41 PM
  #1
piston
Registered User
 
piston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: Denmark
Posts: 571
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to piston
All Eyes on Atlanta

OK, so you're Ilya Kovalchuk. Determining your market value is quite easy. You've been a PPG player for seven seasons and will turn 27 next year when your contract runs out. Rick Nash for just under $8 mm for 8 years. Malkin and Crosby both make $8.7 mm for 5+ years. That makes you worth say $8.25 mm for 8 years or $66 mm. Not much mystery there. Atlanta knows this and has likely already offered something in that neighborhood. Anything substantially less would just be insulting.

But, Atlanta is losing $20 -$25 mm a year. They give away two free tickets to fans who buy a pair. Let's face it, it is not a hockey town and may never be. They have consistently been spending at or near the salary floor. If you're Kovalchuk, and you take the offer, you will be sucking up close to or over 20% of the entire salary structure of the Thrashers. And, despite your brilliance, you've only been to the playoffs once and been swept in four games. That is the reality you are facing. Do you sign on the dotted line knowing it will be impossible for the club to bring in the talent to surround you?

Now, if you are Atlanta, you have your superstar and he is not signing the bona fide offer you put on the table. What do you do? You aren't going to win the Cup this season so holding on to him all year does not make much sense. You can wait for the deadline, but teams will just view him as a rental, and the offers you get back may not be to your liking. But, if you trade him before the season, you might get a king's (no pun intended) ransom for the only true superstar on the market. The team that acquires him will have 11 months to sign him to an extension (again, his market value is no mystery) and gets him at a discount for the whole season.

This is all speculation, but look at Nash, he signed right away. Kovulchuk deserves a similar number, but he has not signed. Does he want to spend his career mired in mediocrity. I bring this up because there are only a handful of teams that have both the young chips to offer and the cap space to add him. It should make for an interesting summer in Atlanta.

piston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2009, 10:56 PM
  #2
tomd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,192
vCash: 500
I think this was more relevant before the Smyth acquisition. With Smyth and Frolov as LW on the top 2 lines, a Kovalchuk trade would only make sense if Frolov was going back to Atlanta. In Frolov, Atlanta would be faced with a similar situation to Kovalchuk...a UFA in 12 months (albeit a somewhat cheaper one to resign).

tomd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2009, 11:28 PM
  #3
Zad
HFB Partner
 
Zad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: OC
Country: United States
Posts: 11,917
vCash: 500
The duality of the Russian mind is also a factor at play. I recognize he is young but Russians, in general, value success, money, respect and such things differently than Americans...and Danes

Zad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2009, 12:04 AM
  #4
hans
Registered User
 
hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: westwood
Posts: 2,215
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to hans
I don't think there's any trade - ANY trade, unless the Penguins decide they only need one star center - of Kovalchuk to anywhere that doesn't get Waddell fired and thousands of season tickets cancelled. You cite Atlanta's financial and fan support problems; those are going to be magnified tenfold when they lose their big attraction.

Also, your last paragraph implies that Atlanta will be mired in mediocrity forever. I find that highly unlikely; I think they've got an outside shot at the playoffs this year already, and have an emerging young core with Enstrom, Little, Bogosian, and now Kane. They aren't far away.

And finally, if we accept the premise that Kovalchuk might not want to play for a mediocre team that has been reluctant to spend money in a non-hockey town in Atlanta, then I can certainly think of another team who he ought to be equally disinterested in playing for.

hans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2009, 12:06 AM
  #5
riseandfall9
Registered User
 
riseandfall9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,386
vCash: 500
When we dont get Kovalchuk next year. He will not be the right Character. NO WAY WE OVERPAY FOR KOVALCHUK. OR MY PERSONAL FAVORITE WE NEED THAT CAP SPACE TO RE-SIGN SIMMONDS , QUICK and FROLOV.

riseandfall9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2009, 12:12 AM
  #6
Zad
HFB Partner
 
Zad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: OC
Country: United States
Posts: 11,917
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hans View Post
I don't think there's any trade - ANY trade, unless the Penguins decide they only need one star center - of Kovalchuk to anywhere that doesn't get Waddell fired and thousands of season tickets cancelled. You cite Atlanta's financial and fan support problems; those are going to be magnified tenfold when they lose their big attraction.

Also, your last paragraph implies that Atlanta will be mired in mediocrity forever. I find that highly unlikely; I think they've got an outside shot at the playoffs this year already, and have an emerging young core with Enstrom, Little, Bogosian, and now Kane. They aren't far away.

And finally, if we accept the premise that Kovalchuk might not want to play for a mediocre team that has been reluctant to spend money in a non-hockey town in Atlanta, then I can certainly think of another team who he ought to be equally disinterested in playing for.
A little ornery tonight...

Zad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2009, 12:29 AM
  #7
aegwillnotwinthecup*
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Country: United States
Posts: 4,392
vCash: 500
Atlanta can contend for a playoff spot next season. They have a great young defensive core and some up and comers north of the blueline. Waddell finally paid to bring in a center (Antropov) who has the skill set to play with a guy like Kovalchuk.

From all accounts, Ilya is a very different kind of Russian than, say, Ovechkin. He doesn't mind going unrecognized throughout the streets and has never given off a prima donna/rockstar attitude. He'll likely wear a letter for his country at the Olympics. Remember, it was Kovalchuk who brokered the peace between Ovechkin and Malkin. He's not going to ask the world from Atlanta and he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would bolt for some success and fame somewhere else. I think he believes in what Atlanta is building just as much as Brown or Kopitar believe in what we're building.

He's a top five talent in the league, IMO. If Atlanta parts with Kovalchuk that pretty much means they believe the franchise is doomed.

And also, if they're losing so much money, why did they actively pursue and sign Antropov, a higher end UFA?

Kovalchuk will not be coming to LA. Sorry.

aegwillnotwinthecup* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2009, 12:31 AM
  #8
Omni Owl
Ray of Black Sun
 
Omni Owl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: North Korea
Posts: 3,716
vCash: 500
2012 Stanley Cup Finals: L.A. vs. Atlanta

Omni Owl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2009, 12:43 AM
  #9
KingsCast
Registered User
 
KingsCast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 300
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to KingsCast
Honestly, I love where you're head's at. The problem is that, while the Kings are headed in the right direction, they're also "mired in mediocrity" as well. The perception around the league is that LA is a bottom-feeder team. Look at how much we had to throw at Scuderi. We had to, in Lombardi's words, "blow him out of the water". While I truly believe that we will be contenders for years to come, we have done nothing to prove that...yet.

For those of us who look at every aspect of the team, of course top-tier free agents should sign with us. Drury, Hossa, Chara, Elias should have signed in LA. But they wanted to play for a contender. Until we prove that we are a contender, we're not going to land a Kovalchuk via free agency. While we do have the assets to acquire a Kovalchuk, I don't think he re-signs with us unless we make a deep playoff run. Look at what Hossa did to Pittsburgh (okay, bad example, they won the Cup).

Good post though. I like the positivity.

KingsCast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2009, 03:02 AM
  #10
Willard
Kings All The Way
 
Willard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Just Off Highway 1
Posts: 2,509
vCash: 500
No matter how similarly the lack of success in recent years of the Kings & Thrashers may be viewed, Piston has put his finger on the key difference.

Atlanta's local fan support is unquestionably year after year among the very worst in the league.

The Kings' fan support is at the very least a cut above the worst. I'd say two or three cuts above.

The Thrashers can't even point to a history of franchise success that matches the Kings' history, and that's pretty sad.

Kovalchuk is more or less the life-support tube in the mouth of that big-money-losing franchise. Lose him, and you might as well fold the whole circus tent, because much of the remaining relatively thin fan support will dry up.

If the powers that be in the Thrashers organization believe that there is any future at all to an Atlanta franchise, they have to keep Kovalchuk whether they can afford to surround him with an adequate team or not.

Waddell & Co's best hope for protecting their phoney-baloney jobs is to successfully persuade Kovalchuk that they can reasonably build a strong team around him. This despite all obvious evidence that the contrary is likely, just as Piston observes.

Willard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2009, 03:31 AM
  #11
Willard
Kings All The Way
 
Willard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Just Off Highway 1
Posts: 2,509
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hans View Post
Also, your last paragraph implies that Atlanta will be mired in mediocrity forever. I find that highly unlikely; I think they've got an outside shot at the playoffs this year already, and have an emerging young core with Enstrom, Little, Bogosian, and now Kane. They aren't far away.
I'm not as optimistic as you are about Atlanta's chances. That young core is still going to take awhile to gel. One could have made similar pronouncements of the Blue Jackets not being far away, say in the summer of 2005 and look how long it took them to make the postseason. Timing and at least a little luck will have to be on Atlanta's side for them to make the playoffs anytime soon.

Atlanta's financial woes also hobble that franchise in ways that neither the Kings nor the Blue Jackets are or have been hobbled. I find the Thrashers' outlook to be a cloudy one, let's put it that way. The near to medium future is really where Waddell must show his stuff if he's got it to show.

Willard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2009, 09:01 AM
  #12
piston
Registered User
 
piston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: Denmark
Posts: 571
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to piston
Willard hits on the key point. There is no question that Atlanta can come up with the dollars to pay Kovalchuk a market-base salary. The question is will they also have the money to surround him with Stanley Cup caliber talent. For a team that consistently spends much closer to the salary floor than the salary cap, that loses a lot of money anyway and that lacks a strong fan base the answer is probably not.

Kovalchuk may still re-sign anyway given that Atlanta is the only team he has played for, the ability to remain relatively anonymous and out of loyalty to his teammates, but why isn't it done yet? Does the Thrasher franchise have any matter that could possibly be more pressing? Isn't it obvious what the right number to pay is? I think the answer is that Ilya is taking some time to think about this. It is, after all, the most important career decision he will ever make.

piston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2009, 09:57 AM
  #13
Cosmos
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 222
vCash: 500
Any trade of Kovalchuk would have Palffy trade implications in the sense that the league would assure the deal provides for post trade viability for Atlanta.

Bettmans expansion credibility rides on such a decision.

Cosmos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2009, 12:08 PM
  #14
RonSwanson*
Gadfly
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Food 'N Stuff
Country: United States
Posts: 8,769
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmos View Post
Any trade of Kovalchuk would have Palffy trade implications in the sense that the league would assure the deal provides for post trade viability for Atlanta.

Bettmans expansion credibility rides on such a decision.
True. Think Frolov + Kopitar for Kovy.

RonSwanson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2009, 01:11 PM
  #15
dick341
Registered User
 
dick341's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabwaylingo View Post
2012 Stanley Cup Finals: L.A. vs. Atlanta
i guess the world really is coming to an end in 2012

dick341 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2009, 03:19 PM
  #16
kingpest19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,081
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsCast View Post
Honestly, I love where you're head's at. The problem is that, while the Kings are headed in the right direction, they're also "mired in mediocrity" as well. The perception around the league is that LA is a bottom-feeder team. Look at how much we had to throw at Scuderi. We had to, in Lombardi's words, "blow him out of the water". While I truly believe that we will be contenders for years to come, we have done nothing to prove that...yet.

For those of us who look at every aspect of the team, of course top-tier free agents should sign with us. Drury, Hossa, Chara, Elias should have signed in LA. But they wanted to play for a contender. Until we prove that we are a contender, we're not going to land a Kovalchuk via free agency. While we do have the assets to acquire a Kovalchuk, I don't think he re-signs with us unless we make a deep playoff run. Look at what Hossa did to Pittsburgh (okay, bad example, they won the Cup).

Good post though. I like the positivity.
When Chara signed with the Bruins they were a lottery team. Drury went after the money, Elias stayed with the same team hes been with his entire career. Hossa keeps signing with contenders. Seems like half the time its money drawing these guys elsewhere not the teams being a contender.

kingpest19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2009, 03:59 PM
  #17
KingsCast
Registered User
 
KingsCast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 300
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to KingsCast
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
When Chara signed with the Bruins they were a lottery team. Drury went after the money, Elias stayed with the same team hes been with his entire career. Hossa keeps signing with contenders. Seems like half the time its money drawing these guys elsewhere not the teams being a contender.
You're right but all of those teams have one thing in common: a Stanley Cup.

KingsCast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2009, 04:49 PM
  #18
wabwat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: pasadena, ca.
Posts: 6,784
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to wabwat
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsCast View Post
You're right but all of those teams have one thing in common: a Stanley Cup.

that and Chara's wife wanted to stay out thata way.

wabwat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2009, 02:42 AM
  #19
Mike The Franchise
Registered User
 
Mike The Franchise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Armenia
Posts: 1,032
vCash: 500
For us to get Kovy we would at least have to give frolov and why would we give frolov when Kovy and Fro play sooooo well with eachother?

Mike The Franchise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-18-2009, 09:01 AM
  #20
LA Kings Cup Champs
Registered User
 
LA Kings Cup Champs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: KINGS of Hockey
Country: United States
Posts: 1,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundqvist View Post
For us to get Kovy we would at least have to give frolov and why would we give frolov when Kovy and Fro play sooooo well with eachother?
Because...





Kovy >>>>>>>> Fro








LA Kings Cup Champs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:57 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.