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Old
07-18-2009, 09:51 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Scott Gomez has 45 points in his last 42 playoff games, which is excellent!
How long before the wear and tear of the NHL starts taking its toll on them, as they get older?

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Old
07-18-2009, 10:58 AM
  #52
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Cammalleri - Gomez - Gionta
Pacioretty - Plekanec - A. Kostitsyn
Latendresse - Lapierre - S. Kostitsyn
Moen - Chipchura - Laraque

Markov - Spacek
Mara - Gorges
Hamrlik - Gill

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Old
07-18-2009, 11:18 AM
  #53
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Agreed with pretty much everything you said.

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Old
07-18-2009, 11:24 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Why not ?

Because they played together 3 years ago doesn't mean they gonna play again together on the same line.

And someone said (Gainey ? Martin ? ) that the three new forwards WOULD NOT play on the same line.

Gomez and Cammaleri would be awesome together, and Cammaleri said that he signed in Montreal BECAUSE of Gomez !!! Add A.Kost on that line and we have a legitimate number 1 NHL line and PP unit.
You're wasting your time on this one.

But you're right about something. Martin said that the three new forwards will not play on the same line. He said that Gomez will play with Gionta (which is why Gainey signed Gionta) and that Cammalleri will be use as a RW on the 2nd line. So like he said, the battle will be for the two LW spots on the top two lines.

What we know at this moment from Martin comments:

???-Gomez-Gionta
???-Plekanec-Cammalleri

AKostitsyn and Pacioretty are the likely candidates, with Latendresse (strong chemistry with Lapierre) and SKostitsyn (attitude) being longshots.

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Old
07-18-2009, 11:42 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
How long before the wear and tear of the NHL starts taking its toll on them, as they get older?
Sure, the wear and tear of the NHL will eventually slow down anyone, but I don't think that height is the best indicator.

At 29 years old, the "big" Vincent Lecavalier is already showing signs of slowing down.

How many stars in the NHL in the past - even the recent past - have been the same height as Pipsqueak Gomez at 5'11"? TONS.

Really, where is it written that centres must be big and tall? It's actually the position with smaller players historically than wingers and defence.

Joe Sakic and Steve Yzerman were not big, to take recent examples of long-running centremen Neither were Wayne Gretzky (whose back lasted longer than the bigger Mario Lemieux's), Bryan Trottier, Marcel Dionne, Adam Oates, Stan Mikita.

I could go on a lot more, but suffice it say that siz has never been a handicap for skilled centremen.

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Old
07-18-2009, 12:02 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by 79 André Marcoux View Post
You're wasting your time on this one.

But you're right about something. Martin said that the three new forwards will not play on the same line. He said that Gomez will play with Gionta (which is why Gainey signed Gionta) and that Cammalleri will be use as a RW on the 2nd line. So like he said, the battle will be for the two LW spots on the top two lines.

What we know at this moment from Martin comments:

???-Gomez-Gionta
???-Plekanec-Cammalleri

AKostitsyn and Pacioretty are the likely candidates, with Latendresse (strong chemistry with Lapierre) and SKostitsyn (attitude) being longshots.
I just don't think in the long run, this will be the way to maximize the effectiveness of all the lines.

We need to be more imaginative and create combinations that will work together.

I would put D'Agostini on Gomez' right, and Cammalleri on his left. Gomez might get 70 assists playing with these guys! They may not be playing together right away in September, but I'm looking further ahead. Dags has speed and a bit of size as well as sniping ability that Gomez could bring out.

I would put Gionta, who is not afraid to get his nose dirty and crash the net, with Lapierre and Latendresse. He will generate TONS more goals for that line than Kostopoulos could, with the result that this will be a fine 2A line. Kosto failing to bury chances was too familiar a theme last year.

I would then put Moen on the left side of Plekanec, to provide toughness and good two-way play. Andrei K. goes on the right side and voila you have a 2B scoring line!

The defensive line would have Chipchura at centre with Metropolit on RW replacing Dandenault and Pacioretty on the LW. Metro could take defensive zone faceoffs if Chips struggles much longer. Putting Chips with two fast skaters largely eliminates his main weakness.

In some cases, for example to shadow a top scoring RW on the other team, you could switch Patches and Moen.

For injury depth or slump curing, we have Sergei K and Stewart in the wings. BGL will likely start the season on LTIR and possibly never regain a regular role again.

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Old
07-18-2009, 12:18 PM
  #57
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I think that you can easily compare this team to the one that we had two years ago. The main question will be how fast will it take for new additions to gel with the rest of the players. If they gel quickly I think were in for a nice surprise once again.

If the plekanec-ak duo plays like they are capable of they will be a grate compliment to the new additions. Two years ago this line was perhaps one of the best line in the nhl. Remember what was supose to be are best line ryder-koivu-higgins dident play like they were supose to and the plekanec-ak line was far better. I think that cammalari-gomez-gionta well be far better than the ryder-koivu-higgins line we had two years ago. If plekanec-ak and play to their potential were going to be tough to beat. There is also sergei who will be ready to brake out this year.

There alot to like about this team and alot to look foward to next year

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Old
07-18-2009, 01:24 PM
  #58
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Great first post !

I like your optimism.

It's refreshing to have posts with in-depth analysis as opposed to "hit the panic button fire Gainey" garbage we have seen lately.

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Old
07-18-2009, 01:36 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Sure, the wear and tear of the NHL will eventually slow down anyone, but I don't think that height is the best indicator.

At 29 years old, the "big" Vincent Lecavalier is already showing signs of slowing down.

How many stars in the NHL in the past - even the recent past - have been the same height as Pipsqueak Gomez at 5'11"? TONS.

Really, where is it written that centres must be big and tall? It's actually the position with smaller players historically than wingers and defence.

Joe Sakic and Steve Yzerman were not big, to take recent examples of long-running centremen Neither were Wayne Gretzky (whose back lasted longer than the bigger Mario Lemieux's), Bryan Trottier, Marcel Dionne, Adam Oates, Stan Mikita.

I could go on a lot more, but suffice it say that siz has never been a handicap for skilled centremen.
The size of the player has a huge effect on the wear and tear on a player. This does NOT mean that bigger players can't get injured, but a smaller body can not take the abuse a bigger body can in general. This is a well documented fact.

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Old
07-18-2009, 01:54 PM
  #60
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Pretty sure Bob didn't shell out 6m for Cammelleri with the assurance he would play 2nd line minutes.......dunno maybe i'm wrong

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Old
07-18-2009, 01:55 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
Pretty sure Bob didn't shell out 6m for Cammelleri with the assurance he would play 2nd line minutes.......dunno maybe i'm wrong
Yeah... how many 6 million 2nd line wingers are there ?

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Old
07-18-2009, 02:16 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
The size of the player has a huge effect on the wear and tear on a player. This does NOT mean that bigger players can't get injured, but a smaller body can not take the abuse a bigger body can in general. This is a well documented fact.
Bravo!

I give you FACTS, actual NAMES of centremen who have played long and very well and were less than 6 ft tall, and your comeback is simply to repeat the same assertion that you originally provided no evidence for. If that's the best you can do, let's move on then.

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Old
07-18-2009, 04:06 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by 79 André Marcoux View Post
You're wasting your time on this one.

But you're right about something. Martin said that the three new forwards will not play on the same line. He said that Gomez will play with Gionta (which is why Gainey signed Gionta) and that Cammalleri will be use as a RW on the 2nd line. So like he said, the battle will be for the two LW spots on the top two lines.

What we know at this moment from Martin comments:

???-Gomez-Gionta
???-Plekanec-Cammalleri

AKostitsyn and Pacioretty are the likely candidates, with Latendresse (strong chemistry with Lapierre) and SKostitsyn (attitude) being longshots.
So once again AKost would play at LW, this time to accommodate Cammalleri. Of course, that's only tentative. I wouldn't be surprised if Martin changed his mind after 15-20 games.

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Old
07-18-2009, 04:42 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by 79 André Marcoux View Post
You're wasting your time on this one.

But you're right about something. Martin said that the three new forwards will not play on the same line. He said that Gomez will play with Gionta (which is why Gainey signed Gionta) and that Cammalleri will be use as a RW on the 2nd line. So like he said, the battle will be for the two LW spots on the top two lines.

What we know at this moment from Martin comments:

???-Gomez-Gionta
???-Plekanec-Cammalleri

AKostitsyn and Pacioretty are the likely candidates, with Latendresse (strong chemistry with Lapierre) and SKostitsyn (attitude) being longshots.

Martin can still change his mind 2432 times before the begining of the season

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Old
07-18-2009, 04:58 PM
  #65
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Size issue or not...I would like to see the new big three play together...Cammy,Gomez, Gionta...I think they would give Dmen a real handful....One thing for certain, they will be the three forwards who start the PP...

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Old
07-18-2009, 09:48 PM
  #66
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Size issue or not...I would like to see the new big three play together...Cammy,Gomez, Gionta...I think they would give Dmen a real handful....One thing for certain, they will be the three forwards who start the PP...
Cammaleri is the best winger and MUST play on the first line with Gomez. Otherwise it is a huge waste of money and bad asset management. Gionta, at this stage of his carreer is a second line winger no more. A.K has to show his stuff - if he has any real one - NOW !

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Old
07-18-2009, 10:29 PM
  #67
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In 368 face-offs he had 60.3%.
Not bad... He was 6th in Calgary for taking face-offs.
He was over 54% the two years before too in Los Angeles, didn't know he was that good at faceoffs.

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Old
07-18-2009, 10:36 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
The size of the player has a huge effect on the wear and tear on a player. This does NOT mean that bigger players can't get injured, but a smaller body can not take the abuse a bigger body can in general. This is a well documented fact.
Wrong, wrong and wronggggggggg.
It's more about your build combine with the mental part of it. Some people are just build tougher and can take a beating so to speak.

Please show me your documented fact.

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Old
07-18-2009, 10:50 PM
  #69
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Good analysis, but... If Pacioretty is playing on one of our two top lines, we are in trouble. The kid is not ready for top minutes in NHL yet. I'd rather see Latendresse on the second line then. Camalerri MUST play on the first line with Gomez. What a waste of offensive potential if you don't do that. Even if Gionta played with Gomez in NJ, he belongs on the second line, no more.

Cammalerri-Gomez-A.Kost must be your first line

Gionta-Plekanec-Latendresse could be your second line.(Lats better on RW)

Lapierre and Moen will be on the third with ???? (I would had like Kosto back or Laperrière). Maybe Chipchura should play LW... Or Pacioretty.

S.Kost is an enigma.... Carey Price, too ! I am looking forward to see them at the training camp. I hope they are in a better mental and physical shape.

The rest of the forwards are fourth liners or border AHL/NHL quality. Laraque is USELESS !

Our D-corp is fine but not top... Better than last season, though

I still don't understand they did not hire a real D-men coach instead pof keeping Muller...



I doubt it is your first post...
This is also what I am thinking Cammalleri is the best scorer in this team while Gomez is the best passer. Kostsitsyn would as suggested be a very good compliment to these two. To me the second line could very well include Gionta but I would think both Latendresse and Lapierre would be a better compliment to him, and him to them. On the other hand to pair Moen with Plekanek and perhaps a guy like pacioretty or Daggostini or even Sergei could also make a very decent match.

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Old
07-18-2009, 11:12 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra101 View Post
Hey everyone,

Im a long time reader of your posts, and I'm glad to see so many Habs fans have such strong opinions on our much beloved team. I've been visting the site for a little over a year now, and I felt now would be a good time to maybe make my first post. I know a bunch of you are gonna hate on me for open up a thread on my first post, (from past reading experience) but i mustered up all my courage and I'm ready to go.
Dude, it's been said by many others already, but just wanted to toss u some added Flowers. Very nice post.


Last edited by montreal: 07-19-2009 at 08:01 AM.
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Old
07-19-2009, 11:11 AM
  #71
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Any relation to NewHabsArea?
No.

I suggest him to change his nickname to avoid confusion..

Good overall first post, personally Im not convinced MaxPac is ready to play top line minutes, I would wish to see him get used to the buzy schedules, fill his big frame better and dominate the AHL before making the jump.. He is a PF playing this game with alot of fire, he will definitely be a great player for us in the not so far future..

One name to remember for the next camp, P.K. Subban, personally I think he is ready to have an immediate impact with the Habs but Im not against the idea of playing him with the farm to start the season.. but if ever our team lacks puckmoving skills at the blueline and that P.K. is doing what he wants in the AHL (what I expect), we will have to find him a spot, this kid is just too good, we would be crazy to not call him up just because he didnt play a full year in the farm..

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Old
07-20-2009, 12:25 PM
  #72
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Good post to start the thread.

I think in summary people tend to underrate the quality of the team the last 2 seasons in one part cuz the habs didn't make much noise in the playoffs, and two a lot of people here are in such a CH centric bubble they can only pick apart faults of the team microscopictly and don't see the big picture.

Overall this is the same team that finished first in the 07-08 season, got the 2nd round, and lost a series they shoulda won mostly because of goaltending issues (Biron stealing games for Phill while Price letting softies in). Regardless of playoffs, the team was top 3 in talent wise and performance of 15 teams in conference, that is an overall GOOD team with a lot more skill, and a lot less problems than most teams.

In the 08-09 season it was the same team, and even improved with the 1 year rental acquisitions of Lang + Tanguay. Bad luck this time in the injury factor was a major hit to the team after a good start, the new guys, Price (good start and then never recovered his form after a groin injury), and then fataly Markov. Add to this bad chemisty, coaching collapse and the season really broke down, **** happens.

Now Gainey's challenge: To maintain the overall skill of the team while improving it's character, coaching and spirit.

In my opinion he has accomplished this. He got a #1 centre, not the big frenchman (Lecavalier), but still a legit top 30 in league. He replaced Kovalev with Gionta, a bit less skills, but still a sniper, with more speed, better D game, and chemistry with Gomez. Replaced Tanguay with Camalleri, a bigtime sniper who plays a feisty game (as opposed to the soft playmaker). All 3 guys have big team first attitudes.

Upgraded the D with veteren size and depth, added another legit top 3 who can work PP and upgrades transition.

Basically on the whole the Habs have maintained their skill (which was already high), added more grit, better coaching, better transition passing, better attitudes, and what should be better chemistry. This team is starting to look a lot more like the Anaheim Ducks than a group of heartless eurotrash. If the habs can get decent goaltending and injury luck, they will be a very strong team in the conference with a good chance of going deep, I would put money on that (especially at nice 20:1 or 30:1 odds).

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Old
07-20-2009, 12:51 PM
  #73
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I just don't think in the long run, this will be the way to maximize the effectiveness of all the lines.

We need to be more imaginative and create combinations that will work together.

I would put D'Agostini on Gomez' right, and Cammalleri on his left. Gomez might get 70 assists playing with these guys! They may not be playing together right away in September, but I'm looking further ahead. Dags has speed and a bit of size as well as sniping ability that Gomez could bring out.

I would put Gionta, who is not afraid to get his nose dirty and crash the net, with Lapierre and Latendresse. He will generate TONS more goals for that line than Kostopoulos could, with the result that this will be a fine 2A line. Kosto failing to bury chances was too familiar a theme last year.

I would then put Moen on the left side of Plekanec, to provide toughness and good two-way play. Andrei K. goes on the right side and voila you have a 2B scoring line!

The defensive line would have Chipchura at centre with Metropolit on RW replacing Dandenault and Pacioretty on the LW. Metro could take defensive zone faceoffs if Chips struggles much longer. Putting Chips with two fast skaters largely eliminates his main weakness.

In some cases, for example to shadow a top scoring RW on the other team, you could switch Patches and Moen.

For injury depth or slump curing, we have Sergei K and Stewart in the wings. BGL will likely start the season on LTIR and possibly never regain a regular role again.
Great post and great thinking. I think you're on to something for sure. More thinkers like this are needed around here. So much repetition, it's nice to not read some.

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Old
07-20-2009, 01:01 PM
  #74
Kirk Muller
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Pretty sure Bob didn't shell out 6m for Cammelleri with the assurance he would play 2nd line minutes.......dunno maybe i'm wrong
People get way too hung up on labeling first line, second line etc.

Cammalleri only will get less overall ice time than others because he doesn't play the PK. He will probably lead the team in even strength and PP ice time even if he is plays on the "second line."

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