HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Torts:"We need a QB on the PP"

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-17-2009, 05:01 AM
  #1
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 33,056
vCash: 500
Torts:"We need a QB on the PP"

Part Two of LB's discussion with John Tortorella

Quote:
"We need a quarterback. I'm talking about someone who has poise and creativity, can pass and shoot and get the puck through. And he has to be able to settle things down.

"There's no question point-play was our biggest weakness last year. We have to figure it out. We have to find out whether we have a quarterback here. Right now, I'm not sure, but I'm not ruling out [Wade] Redden and I'm not ruling out [Michal] Rozsival, either."
On Wade Redden

Quote:
"Wade has to be better; he knows it and I know it," Tortorella said. "We've talked a few times this summer about what I expect from him right from Day One of training camp.

"He needs to take charge. I believe he has it in him. But if he can't, or doesn't, we'll take a look at other options, because we cannot have a power play this year like the one we had last year."
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07172009...rts_179778.htm

Sergei Zubov is being very patient and in no rush to sign a deal. Mathieu Schneider has not signed yet. Are they waiting for Slats to clear money? Both are former Rangers who did not want to leave NY and probably wouldn't mind wrapping up their careers in NY.

Bobby Sanguinetti? Michael Del Zotto?

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 05:20 AM
  #2
Cermi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,006
vCash: 500
Unless we can get rid of Redden or Rozy, there's no chance we'll sign either Schneider or Zubov. I think Sangs has a pretty good chance of making the team instead of Gilroy because of his cap hit (half of Gilroy's). I don't believe MDZ is ready, Sangs put the same numbers in OHL and the difference between them in their own zone isn't so big as people say.

Cermi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 05:26 AM
  #3
SML
Registered User
 
SML's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 3,763
vCash: 500
For once, in the history of the New York Rangers, I would like to see them go into camp with a spot open that kids who supposedly have the ability to fill, can honestly have a shot at getting. Sanguinetti and DelZotto are both supposedly offensive minded dmen. Is it that bad of an idea to go into camp and tell them the qb spot is open to which ever one of them wants it more?

SML is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 05:44 AM
  #4
ruckus*
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 3,554
vCash: 500
No. ****ing. Way.

Us? Really?

I don't believe it.

ruckus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 05:45 AM
  #5
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 33,056
vCash: 500
Or they could make a trade for someone like Anton Babchuk.

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 05:46 AM
  #6
Tender Rip
#Haz supa line mates
 
Tender Rip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 12,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SML View Post
Is it that bad of an idea to go into camp and tell them the qb spot is open to which ever one of them wants it more?
Yes. None of them will have any realistic chance at being as good as Rozi or Redden there. Its too much to ask from rookies. Our Alex Goligoski is a more natural candidate (not a better defender, but QB) and while getting his points with Sid and Geno, he was SO not a nr.1 QB.

Without wanting (too much) to fan the flames or be super redundant here, it is pretty damn hilarious for fans of other teams when your coach comes out in a 2-part interview and says that things are good, we're just short at Nr.1 center and PP QB.
.... and then you step back for a sec. and look at the presence of salaries like these:

C: Chris Drury - 7.05
D: Redden - 6.5, job description offensive D-man and puck mover.
D: Rozival - 5, job description offensive D-man and puck mover.

For more absurdity, although insignificant in terms of the cap, the trio will be paid 22.05 million in total salaries this season. Holy crap, batman!

For yet more and more important absurdity.... none of what the GM has so far done has addressed these specific wants of his coach. Instead, cap-flexibility is virtually zero after the gift that was the Gomez trade was spent immediately....

Sather absolutely boggles the mind.

Tender Rip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 06:04 AM
  #7
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 33,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
Yes. None of them will have any realistic chance at being as good as Rozi or Redden there. Its too much to ask from rookies. Our Alex Goligoski is a more natural candidate (not a better defender, but QB) and while getting his points with Sid and Geno, he was SO not a nr.1 QB.

Without wanting (too much) to fan the flames or be super redundant here, it is pretty damn hilarious for fans of other teams when your coach comes out in a 2-part interview and says that things are good, we're just short at Nr.1 center and PP QB.
.... and then you step back for a sec. and look at the presence of salaries like these:

C: Chris Drury - 7.05
D: Redden - 6.5, job description offensive D-man and puck mover.
D: Rozival - 5, job description offensive D-man and puck mover.

For more absurdity, although insignificant in terms of the cap, the trio will be paid 22.05 million in total salaries this season. Holy crap, batman!

For yet more and more important absurdity.... none of what the GM has so far done has addressed these specific wants of his coach. Instead, cap-flexibility is virtually zero after the gift that was the Gomez trade was spent immediately....

Sather absolutely boggles the mind.
What is your purpose here?

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 06:07 AM
  #8
Blueblood 2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 874
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
Yes. None of them will have any realistic chance at being as good as Rozi or Redden there. Its too much to ask from rookies. Our Alex Goligoski is a more natural candidate (not a better defender, but QB) and while getting his points with Sid and Geno, he was SO not a nr.1 QB.

Without wanting (too much) to fan the flames or be super redundant here, it is pretty damn hilarious for fans of other teams when your coach comes out in a 2-part interview and says that things are good, we're just short at Nr.1 center and PP QB.
.... and then you step back for a sec. and look at the presence of salaries like these:

C: Chris Drury - 7.05
D: Redden - 6.5, job description offensive D-man and puck mover.
D: Rozival - 5, job description offensive D-man and puck mover.

For more absurdity, although insignificant in terms of the cap, the trio will be paid 22.05 million in total salaries this season. Holy crap, batman!

For yet more and more important absurdity.... none of what the GM has so far done has addressed these specific wants of his coach. Instead, cap-flexibility is virtually zero after the gift that was the Gomez trade was spent immediately....

Sather absolutely boggles the mind.

Yeah. Life would be so much easier if we deliberately tanked several seasons, won a bunch of lotteries and picked no brainer elite players at the entry drafts. Unfortunately, we don't play in Pitt.

Blueblood 2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 06:07 AM
  #9
Chimp
Registered User
 
Chimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: In my food garden.
Country: Sweden
Posts: 10,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
Yes. None of them will have any realistic chance at being as good as Rozi or Redden there. Its too much to ask from rookies. Our Alex Goligoski is a more natural candidate (not a better defender, but QB) and while getting his points with Sid and Geno, he was SO not a nr.1 QB.

Without wanting (too much) to fan the flames or be super redundant here, it is pretty damn hilarious for fans of other teams when your coach comes out in a 2-part interview and says that things are good, we're just short at Nr.1 center and PP QB.
.... and then you step back for a sec. and look at the presence of salaries like these:

C: Chris Drury - 7.05
D: Redden - 6.5, job description offensive D-man and puck mover.
D: Rozival - 5, job description offensive D-man and puck mover.

For more absurdity, although insignificant in terms of the cap, the trio will be paid 22.05 million in total salaries this season. Holy crap, batman!

For yet more and more important absurdity.... none of what the GM has so far done has addressed these specific wants of his coach. Instead, cap-flexibility is virtually zero after the gift that was the Gomez trade was spent immediately....

Sather absolutely boggles the mind.
I can't see the logic between mixing up the mistakes of yersterday with the attempts today to repair what's broken. Unless you've noticed, at least Chris Drury and Wade Redden are basically impossible to move. Scott Gomez was also considered impossible by most, myself included, but $ather used his trade magic.

Not many question $ather for using the cap space to sign Marian Gaborik. It's obviously a risk, but so is any big UFA signing. Unless you've noticed, NYR doesn't only have a big problem with the PP, but with the offensive power overall.

Criticizing $ather for his off-season moves is a stretch to say the least, since I think the majority of hockey fans can agree he has this far been the most active and successful GM by far of all 30 teams to improve his franchise. And that includes stepping on a mine acquiring McDonagh (who is a good prospect, but not what Rangers needed) only for the sneaky Ottawa to back out of a trade deal in the last minute and ask the heaven for Heatley.


Last edited by Chimp: 07-17-2009 at 06:16 AM.
Chimp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 06:12 AM
  #10
Loffen
Hadouken!
 
Loffen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Soft euro
Posts: 18,830
vCash: 500
Redden better wake up this season and live up to the contract of his. Man the **** up and take control out there...
I haven't given up on him yet, but last season was pathetic on his part. Torts better stay on him like a Drill Sergeant this year to get him going.


Btw . . . Can we afford to get Zubov or Schneider?

Loffen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 06:19 AM
  #11
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 33,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoFFeN View Post
Redden better wake up this season and live up to the contract of his. Man the **** up and take control out there...
I haven't given up on him yet, but last season was pathetic on his part. Torts better stay on him like a Drill Sergeant this year to get him going.


Btw . . . Can we afford to get Zubov or Schneider?
The Rangers would have to make room by trading Rozsival or planning to demote Redden.

Zubov and Schneider could also sign one year deals with performance bonuses which would be forwarded to the 2010-11 cap which wouldn't be too smart with the possible decline in the cap.

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 06:27 AM
  #12
Tender Rip
#Haz supa line mates
 
Tender Rip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 12,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
Criticizing $ather for his off-season moves is a stretch to say the least, since I think the majority of hockey fans can agree he has this far been the most active and successful GM by far of all 30 teams to improve his franchise.
Really?
Reading this very forum I should think that there are quite a lot of Rangers fans who do not feel that way at all, and I would bet body parts that very few non-Rangers fans feel that way. Of course the market isn't over, but I'd rather have your pre-deadline team of last year than what you have now (predicated on Zherdev not being retained as I think he can't/won't be).

I agree with you though, that the mistakes of yesterday... well, you gotta let it go and correct what can be corrected, and of course Drury and Redden aren't just going to magically disappear.

My point was that it doesn't seem like there's much of a guiding principle to what is being done. At least I don't see one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy
What is your purpose here?
Discussion. I have no intention to be hostile and don't think I've written anything visceral about your team compared to what Rangers fans write daily. If its a problem I'll tip my cap and leave through the front door .

Tender Rip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 06:30 AM
  #13
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 33,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
Discussion. I have no intention to be hostile and don't think I've written anything visceral about your team compared to what Rangers fans write daily. If its a problem I'll tip my cap and leave through the front door .
You're a Penguin fan......

That says it all.

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 06:38 AM
  #14
SML
Registered User
 
SML's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 3,763
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
Yes. None of them will have any realistic chance at being as good as Rozi or Redden there. Its too much to ask from rookies. Our Alex Goligoski is a more natural candidate (not a better defender, but QB) and while getting his points with Sid and Geno, he was SO not a nr.1 QB.

Without wanting (too much) to fan the flames or be super redundant here, it is pretty damn hilarious for fans of other teams when your coach comes out in a 2-part interview and says that things are good, we're just short at Nr.1 center and PP QB.
.... and then you step back for a sec. and look at the presence of salaries like these:

C: Chris Drury - 7.05
D: Redden - 6.5, job description offensive D-man and puck mover.
D: Rozival - 5, job description offensive D-man and puck mover.

For more absurdity, although insignificant in terms of the cap, the trio will be paid 22.05 million in total salaries this season. Holy crap, batman!

For yet more and more important absurdity.... none of what the GM has so far done has addressed these specific wants of his coach. Instead, cap-flexibility is virtually zero after the gift that was the Gomez trade was spent immediately....

Sather absolutely boggles the mind.
The only actual absurdity is that the Rangers truly try to put a better team out on the ice every year than they did the year before. Maybe if you tried that, instead of the "welfare cheat" model, I'd value a single word you said.

SML is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 06:53 AM
  #15
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,703
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Or they could make a trade for someone like Anton Babchuk.
who can't QB a power play

I'm also not really sold on the idea of Schneider. Not sure his passing ability is up to snuff for QBing a power play these days

As an aside, I'm also not sure what people want to do with "cap flexibility". Do you mean just leave large chunks of the cap unused? Trade Gomez and then not bother to replace his offense at all? How is that honestly supposed to make the team better?

Smart cap management doesn't mean sitting there and leaving large chunks of cap space unused if you can afford to use it.

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 07:03 AM
  #16
azrok22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,486
vCash: 3743
Zubov is a PP quarterback.

Schneider and Babchuk are definitely not PP quarterbacks.

Schneider and Babchuk fill the role of PP triggerman, being setup by a PP quarterback and firing pucks from the point. Kotalik fulfills a similar role as a PP triggerman.

azrok22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 07:21 AM
  #17
Vitto79
Registered User
 
Vitto79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sarnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,538
vCash: 500
the easy bet is to just sign Zubov to a one yr bonus type deal. 1 million cap hit.

Team him with Kotalik and BAM

Vitto79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 07:52 AM
  #18
Melrose_Jr.
Registered User
 
Melrose_Jr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Providence, RI
Country: United States
Posts: 10,692
vCash: 500
I really don't believe it's as easy saying, "Oh, bring in (insert player name here) and the PP problems are solved". The root of the Rangers power play issues are strategic and the head coach needs to take more ownership of the situation.

Redden's scored 198 of his 436 career points with the man advantage. That's 45%. 145 of those points are assists, so I think it's fair to say that he's capable of making quality passes and setting up teammates that are in a position to score. To me, it's not a question of can Wade do it. It's a question of, can Torts deploy a strategy that maximizes his talents.

Melrose_Jr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 08:00 AM
  #19
Jonas1235
Registered User
 
Jonas1235's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,534
vCash: 500
Tortorella has had great powerplays on every team he has been on. One of the main reasons why Tampa won the Stanley Cup was because of the powerplay.

The Rangers don't have that Zubov, Gonchar, Lidstrom player. But they also don't have many gifted playmakers to set up those players with high percentage plays. Maybe Gaborik, Higgins and Kotalik can change that.

I'm sure Redden is capable, they just need a good strategy.

Jonas1235 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 08:11 AM
  #20
NYRamonte10
Registered User
 
NYRamonte10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 153
vCash: 500
QB=Redden.

I will be really surprised if Redden can't handle being the Powerplay QB this year. Our pick-ups so far will only benefit the powerplay. Redden's a guy who has consistently put up on average around 25 assists a season. He's an excellent passer. He can easily set up Kotalik for the boomer, and with guys like gaborik, higgins, and drury down low pucks are going to be banged home. Rozsival probably could fill the position too. The guys on the team now will probably make anybody in that spot half-way decent. No worries on my end.

Agreed Melrose, you called it perfectly. It's up to torts to find a strategy that can tap into this teams potential on the man advantage.


Last edited by NYRamonte10: 07-17-2009 at 08:17 AM.
NYRamonte10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 08:19 AM
  #21
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,703
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I really don't believe it's as easy saying, "Oh, bring in (insert player name here) and the PP problems are solved". The root of the Rangers power play issues are strategic and the head coach needs to take more ownership of the situation.
Definitely. I thought it was rather silly of Larry Brooks to say absolutely state "the power player doesn't appear to have...improved"

Can't really say one way or the other when the season is still months away. And the biggest factor is going to be the coach.

Quote:
Redden's scored 198 of his 436 career points with the man advantage. That's 45%. 145 of those points are assists, so I think it's fair to say that he's capable of making quality passes and setting up teammates that are in a position to score. To me, it's not a question of can Wade do it. It's a question of, can Torts deploy a strategy that maximizes his talents.
Also true...I'm speculating that Renney just made his players too cautious at times...always worried about being ready to play defense if necessary, spending way too much time thinking about each thing instead of doing. I'm not trying to criticize Renney, just figure out why the PP was so consistently bad and looked like no one had a clue what to do. Hopefully Tortorella can change that and get more out of his players

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 08:22 AM
  #22
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,967
vCash: 50
Awards:
I think we have all the ingredients for a successful PP unit. We have capable players, and a coach with a history of orchestrating solid PPs.

nyr2k2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 08:22 AM
  #23
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,384
vCash: 500
aren't both Gilroy and Heikkinen both supposed to be offensive dmen, with good passing and shooting abilities?

I think that both of them as the season continues will shore up the PP as they get adjusted to the rigors of the NHL. I don't think they will stand out in the beginning and both should gradually be put in the PP (I'm assuming they are going to be our 5&6 dmen) but as the season progresses I believe these two will start showing their potential to lead the PP.

DontStepanMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 08:27 AM
  #24
NYRamonte10
Registered User
 
NYRamonte10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 153
vCash: 500
this discussion has made me go from being nervous to being giddy. I think the Rangers will be a top 10 this year in powerplay.

NYRamonte10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2009, 08:32 AM
  #25
Vito Andolini
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 923
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I really don't believe it's as easy saying, "Oh, bring in (insert player name here) and the PP problems are solved". The root of the Rangers power play issues are strategic and the head coach needs to take more ownership of the situation.

Redden's scored 198 of his 436 career points with the man advantage. That's 45%. 145 of those points are assists, so I think it's fair to say that he's capable of making quality passes and setting up teammates that are in a position to score. To me, it's not a question of can Wade do it. It's a question of, can Torts deploy a strategy that maximizes his talents.
No doubt. The coaching staff's strategy has an effect on the power play. On the other hand, there are certain attribute's a power play quarterback needs to possess to be successful. I'm sorry, but from what I've seen of Redden, if he ever had them, he doesn't have them anymore. He's not quick with the puck at all. Doesn't move the puck with any sense of foresight or speed. Lacks hustle and takes few risks. He shows very little maneauverability from the point. I never see him rush the puck down low and either shoot himself or look for the open man. Hardly ever see him sneaking in from the point for a tap-in. Puts no mustard on his shots and seems to be content with floating wristers.

I hear you. 45% of career points on the pp sounds nice, but when i look over his stats, he's never been top 10 in the league in power play points. In fact, except for a handful of seasons, he's hardly ever been even top 20. Also, you have to accept the fact that his skills/drive/whatever have deteriorated on a yearly basis.
NHL history is littered with players that could do something at one time, and could no longer do them at an acceptable level at other times. Hell, Paul Mara had 29 power play points in 2005-2006...u think he'll ever sniff that again?

If we seriously expect Redden to quarterback our powerplay, then we need to seriously expect a mediocre at best powerplay.

Vito Andolini is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:55 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.