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Old
07-17-2009, 10:23 AM
  #51
BigCanada77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerfans View Post
I couldn't agree more, Steinbrenner.

In fact, I'm going to be really open and honest with you all here.

I love the Rangers, I seriously do bleed blue win or lose. I have (and have) always supported this team...

...but I hate the majority of "Ranger" fans.

God, that feels so good to say
I have to agree with you. "NY sports" fans in general usually.

Even though this poster has no decision making responsibility with the team, I think many people dont feel they should listen to advice on salary cap management/trades/free agency/general offseason moves from a fan of the Penguins for how they beat the system...Oh well, this will never change...

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Old
07-17-2009, 10:33 AM
  #52
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about the Pens poster...

He wasn't overtly aggressive, but I also felt that his post wasn't fully kosher. It's like... you can fight with and make fun of your own siblings, but when another kid comes in and starts picking on your little brother, it's beatdown time.

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Old
07-17-2009, 10:35 AM
  #53
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does it matter that it comes from a Penguins fan? Who really cares? I personally like when a person can take a step back and give an opinion that may be a bit more honest than a Rangers fan may give. I'm a Giants fan and watch football every Sunday with a group of guys, many of whom are Jets fans - I wouldn't get upset when they start saying what's wrong with the Giants - I'll agree/disagree/debate. That's what we do.

I do get a kick out of the typical responses, which is to go off topic and trash the team that person is a fan of. I don't get that reaction. I can agree with a fan of another team just as easy, or perhaps easier, than a fan of the Rangers.

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Old
07-17-2009, 10:37 AM
  #54
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The Rangers message board is such a breath of fresh air. We defend fans of other teams who come in and are critical of our organization because we understand they are entitled to their views and that many Rangers fans might even share them. If I make a critical comment about a Devils player or coach on their message board, I get ripped apart. Thank god I'm a Rangers fan.

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Old
07-17-2009, 10:39 AM
  #55
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Thanks for the words guys. You know who you are .

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Old
07-17-2009, 10:40 AM
  #56
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Stugots...

I'm not sure what the Pens GM has to do with the Rangers' PP. I guess you are saying that because you are a Rangers fan you cannot have an intelligent about any player other than a NYR and you cannot speak about any other team, especially if it's a team who has done a better job at certain things than the Rangers.

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Old
07-17-2009, 10:46 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
Thanks for the words guys. You know who you are .
For the record, I had no problem with your post either. Of course, I thought it was incorrect, but I thought it was presented in a spirit of honesty and non-trolling (is there such a word?), which makes it just another part of the debate in my book.

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Old
07-17-2009, 10:49 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salz View Post
If I make a critical comment about a Devils player or coach on their message board, I get ripped apart. Thank god I'm a Rangers fan.
A different standard is applied when it comes to Devils fans here and vice versa. Since the fan bases have proven time after time that they cannot interact with any level of civility, we've been forced to pull the plug on any commentary from the opposing side that could lead to the usual urinating contest. Sad but true.

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Old
07-17-2009, 10:49 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
For the record, I had no problem with your post either. Of course, I thought it was incorrect, but I thought it was presented in a spirit of honesty and non-trolling (is there such a word?), which makes it just another part of the debate in my book.
Exactly. I think unlike our counterparts across the river, we should welcome non-trolling fans of other teams to post here. Even if they have something critical to say, it should be respected if it's not obvious trolling. Lets take the high road unlike you know who.

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Old
07-17-2009, 10:54 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salz View Post
Exactly. I think unlike our counterparts across the river, we should welcome non-trolling fans of other teams to post here. Even if they have something critical to say, it should be respected if it's not obvious trolling. Lets take the high road unlike you know who.
Yeah, it's not like he was saying anything we haven't said for 2+ years now anyway.

And I live in Pittsburgh, so I hate most Penguin's fans as much as anyone, but jumping down his throat like that is just stupid.

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Old
07-17-2009, 11:08 AM
  #61
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One of the keys to the PP is unpredictability. You need to have guys who can pass AND shoot, and actually do both. When the puck comes to someone, the other team has to anticipate a shot, so that they all swing that way, and one or two fall down the block, and then the puck needs to quickly move somewhere else to someone who has a lane, and THAT player needs to shoot. Of course it sounds simple, but when you have poor decision makers like Redden/Rozy were last year, it doesn't work at all.

And for the record, I believe that Rozy can be effective on the PP as the shooter, if Torts can teach him to unload (assuming he is still here this season). To be fair to him, one of the reasons for his shooting hesitance is that there is very rarely a lane open to him, as a result of the general imcompetence of the PP. I think that if you ice a more dynamic player on the opposite point (Gilroy? Sanguinetti? Del Zotto?), you'll see Rozy do much better.

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Old
07-17-2009, 11:18 AM
  #62
I Am Chariot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
Brad Richards QB's the PP AND he is a lefty Center AND he won a cup with Torts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
And Dallas isn't taking our contracts....This is the salary cap world...

All these players you want aren't coming here.....
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He has two years left on that inflated deal. Id rather go with the youth on the wings than at center.

Doesnt Dallas owe Sather a favor?


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Old
07-17-2009, 11:21 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
the Rangers need more than a PP QB. They need an overhaul of the entire system as well as a plan. While I recognize that a PP QB is needed, he alone doesn't make the PP better. You cannot get a shot through from the point unless you have a shooting lane. You cannot get a shooting lane unless youmove around and move the defenders around to create a shooting lane. This is not typically done alone by a PP QB. One of the reasons why this team had mildly successful PPs with Jagr was Nylander. Who was the Rangers' PP point guy then? Straka? Rozsival? I can't remember. Jagr and Nylander played with the puck and each could carry the puck. One minute Nylander's on the left side, the next he's on the right side. Ditto Jagr. The difference between that PP being elite and what it was likely was the absence of a real point guy, and perhaps Nylander's overhandling of the puck, but that PP was leagues better than last season and the season before. The season before saw Dubi replace Nylander, and Dubi was static. That's a problem.
It's a 5 man unit, but there's a reason the role is called power play quarterback and its almost always manned from the blue line. The quarterback has the best view of the offensive zone on the ice. You're right that this team lacked the ability to create shooting lanes, but I'd argue that's a big responsibility of the qb. We saw Leetch do it for years with this team. Everything was done with speed. There was no time for the penalty kill to settle down because he was always a threat to one touch pass it, take it down low, pivot along the blue line, step in and fire a wrister. It doesn't all sit on the qb's shoulders, but most successful powerplays have a mobile defensemen that thinks and acts quickly.

I look at a team like San Jose, and its no surprise to me that they jumped up to a 24% power play in 2008-2009. Dan Boyle most definately made that power play better.

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Old
07-17-2009, 11:32 AM
  #64
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Dump Rozsival. He still looks for Jagr, especially on the PP.

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Old
07-17-2009, 11:43 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
As an aside, I'm also not sure what people want to do with "cap flexibility". Do you mean just leave large chunks of the cap unused? Trade Gomez and then not bother to replace his offense at all? How is that honestly supposed to make the team better?

Smart cap management doesn't mean sitting there and leaving large chunks of cap space unused if you can afford to use it.
No, cap flexibility doesn't mean you have a large amount of unspent money, though obviously you need some cap space left over for injuries and deadline deals.

When people talk about cap flexiblity, they are referring to shorter contracts and the ability to clear money. Long contracts are harder to trade than short ones, particularly if the player in question isn't living up to his contract. Yes, we traded Gomez this year, but I don't think we can expect a trade like that to happen every year.

Also, long contracts cannot realistically be bought out. Basically, anything longer than 2 years can't be bought out, and even a 2 year buyout would hurt.

Next year we have very little money coming off the books. Higgins, Staal, Girardi and maybe Dubinsky, if he gets a 1 year deal. Those are players we'd all like to retain, I would think, and they will all be looking for raises. Where does that money come from? The cap may go down.

Drury will still have 2 years and 13 mil left (and an NMC). Redden, Gaborik and Lundqvist will all have 4 years left. A Drury buyout is the only feasable way to clear money next year, short of sticking Redden in Hartford.

If the Rangers were to trade for Heatley, it would only be worse. He would be untradeable after what happened this year and we couldn't possibly buy him out.

If we can trade Rozy this year for a cheaper dman on a 1 year deal, then maybe we use the cap savings to sign Zherdev for 1 year, or another cheap vet dman for 1 year. Then next year both players are off the books and we have more room to get our RFAs signed.

That's what cap flexibility means. The more contracts you have that can't be bought out and/or traded, the less flexibility you have.

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Old
07-17-2009, 11:47 AM
  #66
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Being on the ice during the power play doesn't mean Wade Redden ran the power play. He hardly ever did. Spezza ran the PP, and Yashin before him. I cannot wait to see the comments from the Redden booster club around here in December or January when his play continues to decline and he offers absolutely nothing on the offensive side of the puck. Why people here continue to fail to see that lack of speed is the biggest problem with this guy is a mystery to me. 32-year-olds don't get faster. They get slower.

Rozsival running the power play is a joke, too. The key to the PP is poise, Rozsival has none of that.

The Rangers need to sign Zubov or Schneider for a year, because they simply don't have a player on the roster capable of running the power play, and I don't think you need to entrust that responsibility to rookies.

And while I like Babchuk, he is not a PP QB, he's just a big shot.

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Old
07-17-2009, 11:51 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
He has two years left on that inflated deal. Id rather go with the youth on the wings than at center.

Doesnt Dallas owe Sather a favor?

Honestly, a deal center around Richards for Redden is pretty damn feasible. Sure Redden is overpaid, but so is Richards. Plus there have been reports of Dallas bidding for Wade's services along with NYR. Hull may have been more willing to deal with Sather than Nieuwendyk after the Avery fiasco, but it sure as hell seems like it could be done if Dallas is still looking for D.

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Old
07-17-2009, 11:51 AM
  #68
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To be honest, I'm really not too worried about our first line power play. The Rangers have TWO legitimate threats that the opposing team's penalty kill unit have to 'respect' in Kotalik(and his booming shot) and Gaborik( and his overall goal scoring ability). All of that combined with Redden's competent passing, Drury's history on the powerplay, and Boyle's size and(hopefully ability) to screen the goalie.


Drury- Boyle- Gaborik
Kotalik-Redden

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Old
07-17-2009, 11:52 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salz View Post
The Rangers message board is such a breath of fresh air. We defend fans of other teams who come in and are critical of our organization because we understand they are entitled to their views and that many Rangers fans might even share them. If I make a critical comment about a Devils player or coach on their message board, I get ripped apart. Thank god I'm a Rangers fan.
You get ripped apart on that board if you post like a tool and troll.

I post on there all the time. Sure, they jump down your throats, but they have good mods who can control some of the REAL idiots over there (and they have a number of truly idiotic posters).

It's either post with decency or don't post at all.

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Old
07-17-2009, 11:53 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
No, cap flexibility doesn't mean you have a large amount of unspent money, though obviously you need some cap space left over for injuries and deadline deals.

When people talk about cap flexiblity, they are referring to shorter contracts and the ability to clear money. Long contracts are harder to trade than short ones, particularly if the player in question isn't living up to his contract. Yes, we traded Gomez this year, but I don't think we can expect a trade like that to happen every year.
But the problem is that the Rangers would be a pretty mediocre team if they didn't spend some money on big contracts. If we were talking about them trading Gomez to open up some space and then turning around and spending $7+ mill for 5 years on Gionta, then I'd agree about this years situation. Since they spent the money on the type of player they desperately needed, I'm not so worried. Guys like Gaborik are the type that you *should* spend money on.

I have no problem complaining about signings like Redden and Drury, but Gaborik was the type of signing that the Rangers needed to do. You can't get 3 players with small contracts and have that equal one Gaborik.

And realistically, you just can't build a team by only signing players to one year contracts. Players won't go for it, and you'll have to eventually give your important players big and long contracts. Again though, I'm perfectly fine with *****ing about some of the contracts the Rangers have given out, but I'm pretty ok with the idea of moving Gomez's salary and using that space to sign someone like Gaborik

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Old
07-17-2009, 12:00 PM
  #71
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Redden just got called out by Torts, He better wake up or they are sending his ass down the Minors.

Torts ain't just talking about his PP play or vision, he is speaking to Reddens entire game.

If Torts can get Redden back to the Redden we saw post lockout & in this years playoffs than Torts truly is a miracle worker.

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Old
07-17-2009, 12:06 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
Redden just got called out by Torts, He better wake up or they are sending his ass down the Minors.

Torts ain't just talking about his PP play or vision, he is speaking to Reddens entire game.

If Torts can get Redden back to the Redden we saw post lockout & in this years playoffs than Torts truly is a miracle worker.
He did get called out by torts, but it also sounded to me like torts does have confidence that the veteran wade redden can turn it around next year

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Old
07-17-2009, 12:06 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
32-year-olds don't get faster. They get slower.
But 40 year olds don't?

I don't see what the anti-Redden side is proposing. Why would you not want to try the guy that you've made a commitment to? Saying, "Yah, ok, I'll try that" isn't an endorsement that it's the answer to anything. It only says that you're going to try your most logical option before you overpay some relic that you may or may not need.

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Old
07-17-2009, 12:08 PM
  #74
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Made good points? He stated what every single ranger fan has been saying FOR THE PAST YEAR! I don't need a Penguins fan coming in here telling us what our GM has done wrong. What has their GM done that is so spectacular? Picked Crosby and Malkin in the draft? Anybody with a half of brain would've picked them if they had the top picks in the draft!

Don't attack me for telling a penguins fan to screw off.
So...you can only take criticism from a Rangers fan? He stated information that was pretty truthful and didn't do so in a condescending way. You don't own this board who are YOU to jump on his back?

I didn't attack you either, I gave my opinion...you don't like it....I don't care...if you want to ignore me that would be fine too but don't think for a second I care what your opinion is on this team...the league...anything....I'd rather have a debate with a hockey fan then somebody that can't hear the truth about this team.

Debate the post the guy made.....and....psst..I wasn't the only person to think it was wrong...

Have a nice day!
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Old
07-17-2009, 12:08 PM
  #75
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Made good points? He stated what every single ranger fan has been saying FOR THE PAST YEAR!
Which doesn't make the points any less good/valid.

You seem to want to rate the guy based on the originality of the points he made, but I daresay neither you nor the vast majority here would want to be judged on such a criterium. Frankly, only about 10% of the commentary here offers anything new, and that includes my own contributions, so if the problem is that he was merely re-stating what's been said many times before, you should be ranting on every damned thread on this board.

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