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Old
07-18-2009, 03:30 AM
  #76
Joey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
Lang is getting old. He was born in Dec 1970.
Looking at a few seasons of Lang between 27 years old and 31 years old:
  • 1997-1998 - 22 points;
  • 1998-1999 - 44 points;
  • 1999-2000 - 65 points (Jagr had 96 points that year);
  • 2000-2001 - 80 points (Jagr-121, Kovalev-95, Straka-95, Lemieux 76 points in 43 games).

So when he was 29 years old, he started his best season to date: 65 points.
At 30 years old, he finally became a ppg player for one season.
With who was he playing at that time?

Since the lock out he had 62, 52, 54 and 39 (in 50 games this year - so 64 points based on 82 games).

For now, I am willing to take a chance with Plekanec at 2-2.5M.
If we can get Lang at the same price, then bring him.
But a 26 year old Plekanec has more upside. At the same age, Lang's best season was 22 points.
Put Plekanec with Ovechkin, Parise, Iginla or Kovalchuk and he will do 80 points.
He may end up with Cammaleri and put more than 70 points.

Forget Lang, Plek can put better numbers for cheaper.

stop trying to use irrelevant mathematics that will never come into effect EVER again. we all know what we saw last year. if you prefer to twist stats based on a decade ago, go for it. we all know what Robert Lang brings, even if you don't.

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07-18-2009, 03:36 PM
  #77
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It's a gross exaggeration to say that Plekanec is the weakest link on the Habs. Look at the roster. Is Plekanec really worse than d'Agostini? Stewart? Metropolit? SKost? Laraque? Is he likely to be outscored by Lapierre, Latendresse, Pacioretty, or Moens?

Yeah, I know that other factors besides scoring figure into a player's value. How many Hab forwards are better defensively or as penalty killers? Does he take a lot of foolish penalties?

Think it over, mes amis.

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Old
07-18-2009, 03:46 PM
  #78
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Plekanec has scored 20+ in 3 straight seasons, I think he is a perfectly serviceable 2nd line center.

I am expecting him to bounce back, if he does play with Cammalleri (who Martin said was going to play RW on the 2nd line) he could easily end up matching his 07-08 numbers. If Kovalev was indeed the problem with A.Kost and Plekanec last year, playing with Cam could re-ignite them.. Who knows... At anywhere from 2-3M a season, he is well worth the gamble.

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Old
07-18-2009, 05:04 PM
  #79
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Hypocrites!

Once Pleks gets gelling with a whole new environment this year you are all the same poeple who will be saying "Oh, Pleks is so gangsta with his turtle neck.. he is the man... yada yada yada..." I can see it comming a mile ahead.

Seriously, no wonder players hate coming here.

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07-18-2009, 07:12 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
If you guys don't want Lang and we end up losing Heatley and not getting too much Cap hit on the way back, I would love for Lang to come to Ottawa.
Lang is amazing, he can really improve the players he's playing with and that's why he was so great with Montreal: he made Sergei Kostitsyn a better player, and that kid is going to be phenomenal.
You seem to have an overwhelmingly positive perception of Robert Lang. Let me bring it down a notch for you.

Robert Lang is not an amazing player. He is a very skilled, one-dimensional player, who can rack up a lot of points. Curiously, his individual accomplishments rarely contribute to team success. See his Art Ross contending season on a celler-dweller in Washington, see his time with Detroit and Chicago. The latter two teams really took off when he left. Yes, young talent on those teams matured and produced, but if he was really an amazing player, I doubt hed get jettisoned for virtually nothing, especially when there was a glaring second line center hole with the Blackhawks.

Robert Lang does not make players on his line better, and did not make Sergei Kostitsyn a better player. Sergei regressed like the rest of the team last season, though that might not have anything to do with Lang. Unlike a Saku Koivu, Lang will not elevate the play of his linemates through playmaking or intangibles, but likely wont make them worse either. Hes a pure offensive producer, with little else to his game.

As a Senators fan, you might wish to pair him up with Alexei Kovalev. That simply did not work last year in Montreal. Without the puck, the duo looks absolutely lost in the neutral zone, cannot forecheck, for some reason will not pressure the opposing puck-carrier, and cant win a one-on-one battle. The third member of that line (poor Higgins) will look equally lost out there when he realizes that he has no support when forechecking.

Compared to Plekanec, Lang is bigger, but doesnt use that size beyond his reach, better in faceoffs, much slower, much older, more injury-prone, just as soft, a lot more passive and less combative. Even when healthy, he is not a viable replacement for Plekanec, who is much better defensively and a threat on the PK. Lang does not really fit a fast counter-attacking squad like the Habs either. I guess you could make the point that hed be solid extra offense on the third line and the PP, but not as a replacement 2nd line center. If it were up to me, Id sink or swim with Plekanec and Gomez. Plug in Lapierre or Cammelleri if injuries hit; we have the extra offensive depth on the wings.

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Old
07-18-2009, 07:17 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Tenorman View Post
Hypocrites!

Once Pleks gets gelling with a whole new environment this year you are all the same poeple who will be saying "Oh, Pleks is so gangsta with his turtle neck.. he is the man... yada yada yada..." I can see it comming a mile ahead.

Seriously, no wonder players hate coming here.
When has anyone ever said a bad thing about coming to Montreal?

I prefer to go ahead with the younger Pleks and let him show what he can do.

How the hell is this a news report?

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Old
07-18-2009, 08:04 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Tenorman View Post
Hypocrites!

Once Pleks gets gelling with a whole new environment this year you are all the same poeple who will be saying "Oh, Pleks is so gangsta with his turtle neck.. he is the man... yada yada yada..." I can see it comming a mile ahead.

Seriously, no wonder players hate coming here.
Seriously, I suggest you go visit other team's board once in a while. Chances are, the way you think, no players would want to play anywhere....

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Old
07-18-2009, 11:51 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudReader View Post
You seem to have an overwhelmingly positive perception of Robert Lang. Let me bring it down a notch for you.

Robert Lang is not an amazing player. He is a very skilled, one-dimensional player, who can rack up a lot of points. Curiously, his individual accomplishments rarely contribute to team success. See his Art Ross contending season on a celler-dweller in Washington, see his time with Detroit and Chicago. The latter two teams really took off when he left. Yes, young talent on those teams matured and produced, but if he was really an amazing player, I doubt hed get jettisoned for virtually nothing, especially when there was a glaring second line center hole with the Blackhawks.

Robert Lang does not make players on his line better, and did not make Sergei Kostitsyn a better player. Sergei regressed like the rest of the team last season, though that might not have anything to do with Lang. Unlike a Saku Koivu, Lang will not elevate the play of his linemates through playmaking or intangibles, but likely wont make them worse either. Hes a pure offensive producer, with little else to his game.

As a Senators fan, you might wish to pair him up with Alexei Kovalev. That simply did not work last year in Montreal. Without the puck, the duo looks absolutely lost in the neutral zone, cannot forecheck, for some reason will not pressure the opposing puck-carrier, and cant win a one-on-one battle. The third member of that line (poor Higgins) will look equally lost out there when he realizes that he has no support when forechecking.

Compared to Plekanec, Lang is bigger, but doesnt use that size beyond his reach, better in faceoffs, much slower, much older, more injury-prone, just as soft, a lot more passive and less combative. Even when healthy, he is not a viable replacement for Plekanec, who is much better defensively and a threat on the PK. Lang does not really fit a fast counter-attacking squad like the Habs either. I guess you could make the point that hed be solid extra offense on the third line and the PP, but not as a replacement 2nd line center. If it were up to me, Id sink or swim with Plekanec and Gomez. Plug in Lapierre or Cammelleri if injuries hit; we have the extra offensive depth on the wings.
Actually, Lang was the only center that somehow "clicked" with the Kosti. Bros.

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Old
07-19-2009, 12:43 AM
  #84
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Bring Lang back and keep Pleks. Who says Lapierre has to play center?

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Old
07-19-2009, 01:54 AM
  #85
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I like how this thread will be brought up in 6 months and at this moment, maxlapierre will be MIA

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Old
07-19-2009, 02:40 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
I like how this thread will be brought up in 6 months and at this moment, maxlapierre will be MIA
Speak for yourself, I'm a fan and if Plekanec turns out to be a warrior I'll be cheering him on.

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07-19-2009, 10:08 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by MaxLapierre View Post
Speak for yourself, I'm a fan and if Plekanec turns out to be a warrior I'll be cheering him on.
I see... Fair weather?

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Old
07-19-2009, 10:24 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxLapierre View Post
Speak for yourself, I'm a fan and if Plekanec turns out to be a warrior I'll be cheering him on.
He is better then you!

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Old
07-19-2009, 10:56 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I see... Fair weather?


How to be a fan:
  • Cheer for the LOGO in the FRONT at all times.
  • If a player on the team is particularly effective, cheer him on.
  • If a player your like is in a slump, cheer him on.
  • If a player you don't like is on a hot streak, cheer him on.

I'm a habs fan through and through, I won't get mad if Plekanec gets 50g50a, it helps the team. I'm just worried because Plekanec is the WEAKEST LINK right now.

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07-19-2009, 11:14 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxLapierre View Post


How to be a fan:
  • Cheer for the LOGO in the FRONT at all times.
  • If a player on the team is particularly effective, cheer him on.
  • If a player your like is in a slump, cheer him on.
  • If a player you don't like is on a hot streak, cheer him on.

I'm a habs fan through and through, I won't get mad if Plekanec gets 50g50a, it helps the team. I'm just worried because Plekanec is the WEAKEST LINK right now.
Weakest link? You put Plekanec after Sergei Kostitsyn, Laraque, Lapierre, Latendresse, Moen, D'Agostini, Stewart and Metropolit (just to name a few)???




EDIT: And I'm still waiting for the reply to this:
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...5&postcount=30

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Old
07-19-2009, 11:21 AM
  #91
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Gainey appears to prefer fast 2 way players. How Gill fits in there Im not sure. Hopefully we will see Pleks feed off someone rather than be expected to carry linemates. Let the Kosts, Dags, Lats, Maxpacs prove themselves.

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Old
07-19-2009, 11:23 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxLapierre View Post


How to be a fan:
  • Cheer for the LOGO in the FRONT at all times.
  • If a player on the team is particularly effective, cheer him on.
  • If a player your like is in a slump, cheer him on.
  • If a player you don't like is on a hot streak, cheer him on.

I'm a habs fan through and through, I won't get mad if Plekanec gets 50g50a, it helps the team. I'm just worried because Plekanec is the WEAKEST LINK right now.
First of all, Plekanec is not the weakest link. Far from it. Second of all, Plekanec is a solid player with lots of skill. That's all you need to know. There's absolutely no reason to dump him under the bus just because you don't like the way he plays.

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Old
07-19-2009, 11:26 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Seriously, I suggest you go visit other team's board once in a while. Chances are, the way you think, no players would want to play anywhere....
A message board is not representative of real life and even still, only the Leafs board can come close to ours and its not, it doesn't have multiple threads trying to explain why or why we shouldn't keep a 40 year old has been. If they were talking about Gary Roberts in such a way today, we'd be laughing at them even more.

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Old
07-19-2009, 11:27 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Weakest link? You put Plekanec after Sergei Kostitsyn, Laraque, Lapierre, Latendresse, Moen, D'Agostini, Stewart and Metropolit (just to name a few)???




EDIT: And I'm still waiting for the reply to this:
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...5&postcount=30
lmao Pleks after SKost, Moen...

Skost sucks! The only reason he's there is to do Akost's laundry.

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Old
07-19-2009, 11:59 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Actually, Lang was the only center that somehow "clicked" with the Kosti. Bros.
Yeah, Lang was a good fit there, though not a great one. The Kostitsyns like playing on the same line, and Lang let them do the puck-handling. I guess for Sergei, you can say that he played his best all year with Lang as center, but that's not really saying much as he had a pretty bad year. As for Andrei, he was effective everytime he was seperated from Kovalev. I would say Andrei played his best hockey with Koivu/Tanguay and Plekanec/Pacioretti -quicker, high energy players, who forecheck and cycle.

A little off topic, but anyone remember Sergei playing his first shift in Montreal? Brought a ton of energy, creativeness, lightning quick on loose pucks, battled hard for them, and criss-crossed all over the offensive zone. I hope to see some of that Sergei under Jacques Martin.

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Old
07-19-2009, 12:06 PM
  #96
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having a healthy robert lang on our team is so not going to hurt us whatsoever.
i would like him on the team for the upcoming season, but if he/they choose diffrent then, thats that.
i know his experience and knowledge will be a huge benifit to our younger players, now if we could just get that skill and experience in a back up goaltender for price we would be almost at that point where we are contenders.

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Old
07-19-2009, 11:11 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Weakest link? You put Plekanec after Sergei Kostitsyn, Laraque, Lapierre, Latendresse, Moen, D'Agostini, Stewart and Metropolit (just to name a few)???




EDIT: And I'm still waiting for the reply to this:
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...5&postcount=30
All the player u mention play DIFFERENT ROLES on the team. You cannot compare pleks to Laraque... Also, they were stronger at their respective positions than pleks last year! You cannot deny that Pleks has confidence issues. He calls himself a little girl, he openly says he didn't know why Czech asked him to play in the WC. I like pleks, but if he doesn't play like he did two years ago (or better than last year), our second line will be inefficient, thus hurting the team. Pleks is the most likely candidate to dissapoint this year due to his lack of self confidence and non aggressive play. I hope he doesn't though because I WANT him to do well

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Old
07-19-2009, 11:38 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by R8 View Post
First of all, Plekanec is not the weakest link. Far from it. Second of all, Plekanec is a solid player with lots of skill. That's all you need to know. There's absolutely no reason to dump him under the bus just because you don't like the way he plays.
Plekanec is the weakest link at his role. Gomez is a decent 1st liner, Camellari is good 1st liner, Gionta is a solid top6 winger etc.

For a top6 player, remember playoffs included, you want toughness and ability in spades.

Plekanec IS NOT TOUGH ENOUGH. PLEKANEC SHYS AWAY FROM CONTACT.
These aren't my "opinions", these are facts.

If we had Getzlaf, I'm okay with Pleks as my 2nd line center but that's not the situation now is it? We have a non-physical 1st line center so if our 2nd line center is also non-physical (and terrified of contact to boot) that is about 50-70% of our offense contained by a good and tough backcheck/defense.

Plekanec was atrocious last year, sure he had 20goals but they weren't clutch at all and given his playing time/linemates I'm amazed he couldn't have gotten more.

Who was our first line center after Lang AND Koivu went down? Plekanec. And he shat the bed so poorly that we entered a tailspin for 25 games.

Forget about his 07-08 form; when you have an 84pt Kovalev on your line and a hotshot Andrei Kostitsyn too, your stats get inflated. If he had played with Higgins and Ryder his numbers would've really reflected his ability.

I don't like how he plays because he can get contained by one hard check. He is the typical "soft-euro" that Don Cherry hates and given the turnover on this team toward toughness and consistency I'm surprised Plekanec is still here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Weakest link? You put Plekanec after Sergei Kostitsyn, Laraque, Lapierre, Latendresse, Moen, D'Agostini, Stewart and Metropolit (just to name a few)???




EDIT: And I'm still waiting for the reply to this:
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...5&postcount=30
Firstly your other post was a load of hot-air; I didn't bother responding to it because it is my opinion against yours.

I think Pleks is mediocre, but good if he isn't depended on; you think he is a solid enough 2nd liner that even if the Gomez line is contained he can carry us through the playoffs

For the record Lang is solid enough and smart enough to be able to carry us on his broad sexy shoulders.

Now on to my weakest link comment:

At his role Supporting Offensive Center he is NOT GOOD ENOUGH as evident by his play when he doesn't have an on-fire Kovalev on his line. The Higgins-Plekanec-Kostitsyn line is so long ago that it doesn't count even, it was a hot streak if anything. Bring tangible stats or don't mention 4 game wonders at all.

Lapierre's role? Latendresse's role? Moen's role? They're all at least good enough for any team (except Detroit I guess).

Metro and Stewart play on the energy line, gimme a break they do their job well. Laraque doesn't do his job well at all but you seem you have a mancrush on him but that's not for this thread; besides Laraque doesn't belong in the LEAGUE much less this contending TEAM much less with a ROLE as far as I'm concerned

Sergei Kostitsyn is an enigma. D'Agostini is not an NHLer in my books. They don't have clearly defined roles anyway.

So what's your argument now?


Last edited by WhiskeySeven: 07-19-2009 at 11:45 PM.
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Old
07-20-2009, 07:33 AM
  #99
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We serious need to stop crediting Kovalev for the ATAK line. Kovy was actually the weakest link on that line, so to speak. Pleky was the strongest point (or at least, the highest scorer).

Kovy was awesome on the power play, but 5-on-5 he wasn't much better that year than he was the year before and the year after. Plekanec, though, had a seriously strong year.

If Plekanec recaptures his 07-08 form then he looks very much like a first-line center. It's a big if, but he's much better than what he's shown this year regardless.

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Old
07-20-2009, 08:44 AM
  #100
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Are the same people complaining about Plekanec the same ones who complain we traded Ribeiro?

Because if I recall Ribeiro had to be the number 1 guy when Koivu went down vs. Carolina and he was the worst player I've ever seen that series.

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