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Richard Jackman predictions

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Old
03-31-2004, 03:23 AM
  #1
stardog
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Richard Jackman predictions

I asked this before in a different thread but it didnt get any responses because the thread wasn't about this question,and the thread died down.

Jackman has 23 points in 23 games with the Penguins (7g 16a). He has 2g, 4a with the Leafs in 29 games. His totals for the season are 52 gp, 9g, 20a for a total of 29 points.
He is certainly a different player (it is a wonder what some confidence can do for you) on the Pens than he was on the Leafs. He had an off game defensivley tonight somewhat, but he has actually been good to very good on most nights for the Pens.

My question is twofold.

A) Where do you see his point total at next year? Obviously he wont keep up a point per game pace (though doing so in 23 games is quite a remarkable feat). I wonder where his PPG average is at compared to other top offensive defensmen.
Do you think he will get 60 points? 50? 40? Less? And why do you think that.
Persoanlly, I think he will get somewhere around the 40-45 point mark next year. Coming into camp with confidence, and playing on a team with a VERY dangerous power play should help him to achieve that.

B) Will he ever live up to the promise he once showed as a top offensive defensman (outside of the last stretch when he was traded) on a consistent basis?
Could he become more than a potential #5 defenseman (which many were saying his upside was when the trade happened)?
Could he ever be a #2 guy? He is only 25, which tells me that there is still room to grow and develop. While 25 isn't all THAT young (late prospect type young) it is far from old as well.

My answer to this also is that he will be a #3 type or a VERY good #4.

Thoughts?

Hopefully Leaf fans can join in with an unbiased opinion as well as Pens fans. That is why I posted it here, to get views from all sorts of fans. I am hoping that there are fans of other teams who have watched Jackman with somewhat frequency after the trade happened.
I'd love for opinions on that. I would also love opinions from Leaf fans who have seen him play a few times in a Pitt jersey. Does he look like a different player than when you guys had him?

I guess the question was much more than two fold.


Last edited by stardog: 03-31-2004 at 03:28 AM.
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Old
03-31-2004, 08:43 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stardog
I asked this before in a different thread but it didnt get any responses because the thread wasn't about this question,and the thread died down.

Jackman has 23 points in 23 games with the Penguins (7g 16a). He has 2g, 4a with the Leafs in 29 games. His totals for the season are 52 gp, 9g, 20a for a total of 29 points.
He is certainly a different player (it is a wonder what some confidence can do for you) on the Pens than he was on the Leafs. He had an off game defensivley tonight somewhat, but he has actually been good to very good on most nights for the Pens.

My question is twofold.

A) Where do you see his point total at next year? Obviously he wont keep up a point per game pace (though doing so in 23 games is quite a remarkable feat). I wonder where his PPG average is at compared to other top offensive defensmen.
Do you think he will get 60 points? 50? 40? Less? And why do you think that.
Persoanlly, I think he will get somewhere around the 40-45 point mark next year. Coming into camp with confidence, and playing on a team with a VERY dangerous power play should help him to achieve that.

B) Will he ever live up to the promise he once showed as a top offensive defensman (outside of the last stretch when he was traded) on a consistent basis?
Could he become more than a potential #5 defenseman (which many were saying his upside was when the trade happened)?
Could he ever be a #2 guy? He is only 25, which tells me that there is still room to grow and develop. While 25 isn't all THAT young (late prospect type young) it is far from old as well.

My answer to this also is that he will be a #3 type or a VERY good #4.

Thoughts?

Hopefully Leaf fans can join in with an unbiased opinion as well as Pens fans. That is why I posted it here, to get views from all sorts of fans. I am hoping that there are fans of other teams who have watched Jackman with somewhat frequency after the trade happened.
I'd love for opinions on that. I would also love opinions from Leaf fans who have seen him play a few times in a Pitt jersey. Does he look like a different player than when you guys had him?

I guess the question was much more than two fold.
My predictions for Jackman for nextyear are as follows.

GP G A PTS
80 15 35 50

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03-31-2004, 08:46 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stardog
I asked this before in a different thread but it didnt get any responses because the thread wasn't about this question,and the thread died down.

Jackman has 23 points in 23 games with the Penguins (7g 16a). He has 2g, 4a with the Leafs in 29 games. His totals for the season are 52 gp, 9g, 20a for a total of 29 points.
He is certainly a different player (it is a wonder what some confidence can do for you) on the Pens than he was on the Leafs. He had an off game defensivley tonight somewhat, but he has actually been good to very good on most nights for the Pens.

My question is twofold.

A) Where do you see his point total at next year? Obviously he wont keep up a point per game pace (though doing so in 23 games is quite a remarkable feat). I wonder where his PPG average is at compared to other top offensive defensmen.
Do you think he will get 60 points? 50? 40? Less? And why do you think that.
Persoanlly, I think he will get somewhere around the 40-45 point mark next year. Coming into camp with confidence, and playing on a team with a VERY dangerous power play should help him to achieve that.

B) Will he ever live up to the promise he once showed as a top offensive defensman (outside of the last stretch when he was traded) on a consistent basis?
Could he become more than a potential #5 defenseman (which many were saying his upside was when the trade happened)?
Could he ever be a #2 guy? He is only 25, which tells me that there is still room to grow and develop. While 25 isn't all THAT young (late prospect type young) it is far from old as well.

My answer to this also is that he will be a #3 type or a VERY good #4.

Thoughts?

Hopefully Leaf fans can join in with an unbiased opinion as well as Pens fans. That is why I posted it here, to get views from all sorts of fans. I am hoping that there are fans of other teams who have watched Jackman with somewhat frequency after the trade happened.
I'd love for opinions on that. I would also love opinions from Leaf fans who have seen him play a few times in a Pitt jersey. Does he look like a different player than when you guys had him?

I guess the question was much more than two fold.
I can see anywhere between 45-50 points, he is pretty good but he is no Berehowsky. :lol

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Old
03-31-2004, 08:47 AM
  #4
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Consider me skeptical. 35 points maximum.

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03-31-2004, 09:29 AM
  #5
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50+ points, more if he plays with Ovechkin

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03-31-2004, 10:19 AM
  #6
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45 points in my opinion, depending on who he plays with of course.

Wow, what a terrible trade for the Leafs.

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03-31-2004, 10:24 AM
  #7
Luigi Lemieux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardn
My predictions for Jackman for nextyear are as follows.

GP G A PTS
80 15 35 50
what he said.

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Old
03-31-2004, 10:41 AM
  #8
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The only reasoning I can figure as to why the Leafs traded him for Berehowsky is because they were doing Ric a favour. Either way, this could become a very, very lobsided trade in a couple of years.

I'd be angry if I was a Leaf fan

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03-31-2004, 11:28 AM
  #9
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I could see Jackman hitting 40 points, if all goes well.

A couple of points;

1.) It's funny how players value are so easily inflated once they do not belong to the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yes, I know Jackman has played VERY WELL with Pittsburgh. However, he still showed some small glimpses of this talent with the Leafs and he's always had the tools - yet if Leafs fans suggested that Jackman had ANY value three months ago, they'd be laughed off the boards.

2.) Drake Berehowsky sucks. Period.

3.) It's an interesting situation to watch Jackman flourish offensively with the Penguins. Of course, on a team like the Pens, there is absolutely no pressure and Jackman can make as many mistakes defensively as he wants. As the Penguins get better, it will be interesting to see if Jackman can improve his all round game and become a good NHL d-man, not just a d-man that has looked good offensively for 20+ games (and yes Pens fans, I have seen quite a few Penguins games recently).

Jackman is around 26 years of age and that isn't very old for an NHL d-man (most d-men are just coming into their prime around 28-29) but this isn't the case of a NHL d-man who has yet to take the next step. Jackman hasn't been able to stick as a NHL d-man in any capacity prior to his stint in Pittsburgh.

All the same, I wish him all the best. He certainly has all the tools.

And as per the trade with Pittsburgh. I believed Jackman was unhappy with his lack of playing time and approached JFJ and asked that something be done.

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03-31-2004, 11:34 AM
  #10
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Bad Bad tread for the leafs

I have always been a fan of Jackman, I drafted him 3 years ago in my pool and I had been waiting for him to meet his potential. I thought that would have been with the leafs, he started the years well and I felt he deserved more playing time. but is often the case with Toronto, it is hard to break into the regular playing time for the younger guys.

I think Jackman will post 50+ points next year, if he play with Overhkin on the power play. It was a great move for him and while I think Quinn gave him up for very IMO, he will be one of the top scoring d men for Pit for along time.

As for the second part of the qestion, IMO I think he has the talent to be a #2 guy, maybe a great #3. The problem that he had is that he could never get that solid chance to play regularly and that was what he needed. I think with Pit he will get that chance, and coming into next season (if there is one) he will continue his strong play.

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03-31-2004, 11:36 AM
  #11
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50 points is reasonable (probably near the ceiling, though). Tarnstrom and Jackman are our Timmonen and Zidlicky.

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03-31-2004, 11:37 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aristocles14

As for the second part of the qestion, IMO I think he has the talent to be a #2 guy, maybe a great #3. The problem that he had is that he could never get that solid chance to play regularly and that was what he needed. I think with Pit he will get that chance, and coming into next season (if there is one) he will continue his strong play.
That's just incorrect. Jackman was given more a solid chance to play regularly at the start of the season. He was seeing 20 minutes a night in some games and was routinely on the top powerplay unit. Jackman played himself OFF the team with brutal decision in the defensive zone.

Jackman played himself onto the team with a strong showing at training camp and then played himself off the team with a brutal showing in the regular season.

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03-31-2004, 11:39 AM
  #13
tom_servo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walknucklers
45 points in my opinion, depending on who he plays with of course.

Wow, what a terrible trade for the Leafs.
If it makes you feel any better, Jackman didn't have much value in Toronto. Sometimes these kind of deals can't be helped.

The Pens traded away Sergei Zubov, Glen Murray, and Markus Naslund for the sum of Eddie Olczyk, Alex Stojanov, and Kevin Hatcher. Within the span of one year.

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03-31-2004, 11:42 AM
  #14
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i think 50 points could happen, and maybe even 20 goals. he'll also be about -25

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03-31-2004, 11:43 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_servo
If it makes you feel any better, Jackman didn't have much value in Toronto. Sometimes these kind of deals can't be helped.
As someone said earlier, he'd shown small glimpses of his talent, but the Leafs didn't stick with him and got Berehowsky. What has he really done for either team all year?

Bad trade then, worse trade now.

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03-31-2004, 11:50 AM
  #16
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He was absolutely brutal in Toronto.

My prediction: 15 goals, 25 assists, 40 points, -30.

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03-31-2004, 11:50 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAndWhite
Of course, on a team like the Pens, there is absolutely no pressure and Jackman can make as many mistakes defensively as he wants.
Ive seen this comment many times. I understand the reason people say it. I also think they couldnt be more wrong.

Every second of NHL ice time brings pressure. How many more chances is Jackman going to get? If he fails with Pittsburgh is his NHL life over? Talk about pressure. I think playing for your career is a high pressure situation.

Jackman cannot make as many defensive mistakes as he wants. Where would it leave him next season? If he makes too many mistakes who would want him next year?

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03-31-2004, 11:52 AM
  #18
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I do not think Jackman is going to be consistently at, or really near this current level. I expect to see the guy at around 25-30 points annually, which isn't bad, but is not really good either.

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03-31-2004, 12:00 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iagreewithidiots
Ive seen this comment many times. I understand the reason people say it. I also think they couldnt be more wrong.

Every second of NHL ice time brings pressure. How many more chances is Jackman going to get? If he fails with Pittsburgh is his NHL life over? Talk about pressure. I think playing for your career is a high pressure situation.

Jackman cannot make as many defensive mistakes as he wants. Where would it leave him next season? If he makes too many mistakes who would want him next year?
I disagree. There have been many gifted offensive players who have built long careers built on shoddy defensive play. We are talking about Jackman sticking for one FULL NHL season.

Pittbsurgh is an up and coming team but they don't exactly have 6 NHL calibre d-men who will push Jackman out of the way, that easily. Not yet, anyway.

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03-31-2004, 12:03 PM
  #20
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It's amazing how some players can put up awesome numbers when there is no pressure to win... they don't have to worry about the defensive zone or to actually help the team win games, just to put up points...

but if the Pens are actually hoping to win games next year, watch for players like Jackman and Tarnstrom to have their numbers drop - and maybe even significantly.... putting up 50 pts a season for a dman means nothing if they have a -35 to accompany that...

Jackman IMO is an average overall dman... maybe has above average potential offensively, but not nearly as good defensively... as soon as he's got responsibilities out there that he has to meet defensively, his numbers will drop.

Put Delmore on the Pens and I'm sure he'll look like he's got Norris numbers when it comes to his offensive game... Tarnstrom has got that now, and a season ago he was waiver material... still now he's a PP QB who can put up points, but is not a dman that most top teams would even want on their team - as a dman a -36 rating is absolutely brutal, not matter the team you play for.... even on the bad pens team his +/- is the 3rd worst on the team (behind Fata's -46 and Orpik's -38)...

Jackman I think is a decent #6/7 on most teams... he's a #3/4 on a bad team... never a guy that you will want anchoring your PK unit though, and not one that will be useful checking the better forwards in the league, or matched up against a team's top offensive unit... I think that top 2 dmen need to be good enough to do that... a top scoring dman with defensive liabilities - well we've all seen and followed the career of Andy Delmore.

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03-31-2004, 12:21 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
It's amazing how some players can put up awesome numbers when there is no pressure to win... they don't have to worry about the defensive zone or to actually help the team win games, just to put up points...
Pressure to save his NHL career.

Your comment on defensive zone play shows you havent watched Jackman play for the Pens.

Theres no guarentee Jackman will do anything useful next year, or ever again. Its just funny how the guy is on the Leafs roster doing nothing and hes the next big thing. Now hes on the Pens roster playing well and he sucks.

Yes Tarnstrom was a waiver pickup. Just because a guy was once a waiver pickup doenst mean he always will be. It doesnt even mean he was a bad player when he was put on waivers. He has proven this season he wasnt just feeding off Mario. Im sure there might be a few teams that would take him. +/- is the most useless stat.

I cant argue about Jackmans history. Or about his career to date. Hes been what hes been. My only problem is saying there is no pressure. The guy was on his last leg when went to Pittsburgh. If he does nothing now he may never get another real chance.


Last edited by iagreewithidiots: 03-31-2004 at 12:34 PM.
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03-31-2004, 12:27 PM
  #22
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I was at the Penguins game when they tied Philly a few weeks ago: some thoughts.

One of the greatest defensive plays I've seen all season came in OT (either OT or in the 3rd.. forget which) when a Flyer forward had a breakaway and Jackman rushed back, dove down and swept the puck from in front of the player as he wound up to shot. He didn't have a bad giveaway that whole game and he was one of the best players out there.

Since his arrival in Pittsburgh, he helped end their 18 game losing streak and has been 1 PPG. He is a -4 on the most scored upon team in the league. Now, he's gotten 15 of his 23 points on the PP which means 8 at ES. Leads one to believe that he's been on the ice for 12 goals against in 23 games in Pittsburgh. Considering that this team allows on average 3.725 goals/game, and Jackman has been on this ice for 0.522 goals against/game and averaging 24:24 TOI.

Face it: he's not as bad defensively as everyone is making him out to be, and he's just as good offensively as everyone is making him out to be. He's getting a chance and he's making the best of it.

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03-31-2004, 12:30 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iagreewithidiots
Pressure to save his NHL career.

Your comment on defensive zone play shows you havent watched Jackman play for the Pens.
no I haven't... who even watches the Pens anymore?? but I have watched enough of him on the Leafs...

while I'm sure his play has improved, you can't take a sample of 25 or so games as how this player has turned around his game, given that he's shown no signs of this before.

until Jackman can help his team win games as a defender and improves his overall game for an extended period of time - like over a season, he's still the average player he was a few months ago, playing on a hot streak.... last year at this time Tarnstrom was supposed to be the next Norris winner, and even though he's had good numbers this year, he's been far from being a top dman in the league.

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03-31-2004, 12:44 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAndWhite
I could see Jackman hitting 40 points, if all goes well.

A couple of points;

1.) It's funny how players value are so easily inflated once they do not belong to the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yes, I know Jackman has played VERY WELL with Pittsburgh. However, he still showed some small glimpses of this talent with the Leafs and he's always had the tools - yet if Leafs fans suggested that Jackman had ANY value three months ago, they'd be laughed off the boards.
He was watching games from the Press Box back then, perilously close to being a bust.

So yes, any Leaf fan who suggested he had the potential to do what he has just done with the Pens, would probably of been laughed at.

Just the nature of the beast, I suppose.

The difference is he is showing what he can do now.

Quote:
2.) Drake Berehowsky sucks. Period.
He's no Ian Moran.

Quote:
3.) It's an interesting situation to watch Jackman flourish offensively with the Penguins. Of course, on a team like the Pens, there is absolutely no pressure and Jackman can make as many mistakes defensively as he wants. As the Penguins get better, it will be interesting to see if Jackman can improve his all round game and become a good NHL d-man, not just a d-man that has looked good offensively for 20+ games (and yes Pens fans, I have seen quite a few Penguins games recently).

Jackman is around 26 years of age and that isn't very old for an NHL d-man (most d-men are just coming into their prime around 28-29) but this isn't the case of a NHL d-man who has yet to take the next step. Jackman hasn't been able to stick as a NHL d-man in any capacity prior to his stint in Pittsburgh.

All the same, I wish him all the best. He certainly has all the tools.

And as per the trade with Pittsburgh. I believed Jackman was unhappy with his lack of playing time and approached JFJ and asked that something be done.
Jackman has been playing well behind his own blueline as well. I have no idea why people keep assuming he is making all of these mistakes in his own zone.

That is just inaccurate.

I watch Jackman exclusively on every one of his shifts.

He has made about three boneheaded plays since he came over, one was a pass off the half boards to the middle of the ice that was intercepted..but he hussled back and blocked the shot; another time he tried to pass the puck from behind his goal line to a teammate, instead of dumping the puck out; and finally, he lost the puck in his own zone when trying to regroup, and the backchecker took it off him and had a great scoring chance.

Other than these few mistakes he has been very solid in his own end. He stays with his assignment in the def. zone very well, he plays mean and phy., when he has a chance to get the puck out, he does (almost without fail), he makes excellent outlet passes, and he has a keen sense of when to pinch and when not to.

I don't know what else the Pens could ask from him.

If you have any doubts about his impact, check the Pens record before they acquired Jackman, and after.

The playing under pressure stigma is also bs. If I hear that one more time I may crack a rib from lmao. Anytime you play in the NHL there is pressure on you.

Playing for the Leafs, Jackman said he would get benched anytime he made a mistake. So when he was out there he would always be worrying about making a mistake, and not what his assignments where.

I don't know any athlete that could play well under those circumstances.

It is called playing through your mistakes, and he was given a chance to do that for the Pens. It has paid off well for them on both the offensive and defensive side.

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03-31-2004, 12:47 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
no I haven't... who even watches the Pens anymore?? but I have watched enough of him on the Leafs...
Should of stopped right there....

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