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Richard Jackman predictions

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Old
03-31-2004, 01:48 PM
  #26
iagreewithidiots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle
Face it: he's not as bad defensively as everyone is making him out to be, and he's just as good offensively as everyone is making him out to be. He's getting a chance and he's making the best of it.
Nobody wants to face it.

Jackman has been a very different player in Pittsburgh. All people want to say is he sucked for the Leafs and leave it at that. The funny thing is people that admit they dont watch Pens games yet they use Dick Tarnstrom as their example of what Jackman might be.

Well if you arent watching the Pens games how do you reall know what Tarnstrom is doing?

+/- is a pretty useless stat. To say anyone is bad defensively just because his plus minus sucks isnt really taking everything in to account. When a defenseman plays 20+ minutes a game for the worst team in the league hes bound to be on the ice for lots of goals against.

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Old
03-31-2004, 01:51 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle
I was at the Penguins game when they tied Philly a few weeks ago: some thoughts.

One of the greatest defensive plays I've seen all season came in OT (either OT or in the 3rd.. forget which) when a Flyer forward had a breakaway and Jackman rushed back, dove down and swept the puck from in front of the player as he wound up to shot. He didn't have a bad giveaway that whole game and he was one of the best players out there.

Since his arrival in Pittsburgh, he helped end their 18 game losing streak and has been 1 PPG. He is a -4 on the most scored upon team in the league. Now, he's gotten 15 of his 23 points on the PP which means 8 at ES. Leads one to believe that he's been on the ice for 12 goals against in 23 games in Pittsburgh. Considering that this team allows on average 3.725 goals/game, and Jackman has been on this ice for 0.522 goals against/game and averaging 24:24 TOI.

Face it: he's not as bad defensively as everyone is making him out to be, and he's just as good offensively as everyone is making him out to be. He's getting a chance and he's making the best of it.
Now you are using logic and facts to back it up. That doesn't work on these boards.

You need to just assume things, let me try to help you:

"I haven't watched Jackman play since he left the Leafs, but he still has to be brutal, because I have no reasoning, Im just bitter. I also predict he will be a -123 next season. Again, I have no reasoning. Just he played bad for the Leafs, so he will have to be a -123 next season."

Did this lesson help?

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Old
03-31-2004, 01:56 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly>
Now you are using logic and facts to back it up. That doesn't work on these boards.

You need to just assume things, let me try to help you:

"I haven't watched Jackman play since he left the Leafs, but he still has to be brutal, because I have no reasoning, Im just bitter. I also predict he will be a -123 next season. Again, I have no reasoning. Just he played bad for the Leafs, so he will have to be a -123 next season."

Did this lesson help?
I agree, this thread stinks like sour grapes.

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Old
03-31-2004, 02:22 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo
Consider me skeptical. 35 points maximum.
I agree with Voodoo on this one. Jackman is just to inconsistent though he's running hot right now I don't see him continuing this pace next year and I surely don't see him getting 50 + points.. 35 points max for Jackman next season
IMO even with the pens giving him huge minutes.


Last edited by Joey24: 03-31-2004 at 02:27 PM.
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Old
03-31-2004, 02:32 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAndWhite
A couple of points;

1.) It's funny how players value are so easily inflated once they do not belong to the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yes, I know Jackman has played VERY WELL with Pittsburgh. However, he still showed some small glimpses of this talent with the Leafs and he's always had the tools - yet if Leafs fans suggested that Jackman had ANY value three months ago, they'd be laughed off the boards.

2.) Drake Berehowsky sucks. Period.
You say that anyone saying Jackman had trade value when he was traded would have been laughed at and then go on to say Drake Berehowsky sucks...period.

Pens fans were hoping for a late draft pick for Gimpy McGimpgimp, instead we got a guy who has propelled this team forward.

I see 50 points next year.

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Old
03-31-2004, 02:33 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iagreewithidiots
Yes Tarnstrom was a waiver pickup. Just because a guy was once a waiver pickup doenst mean he always will be.
Especially when it comes to Penguins pick-ups. They're rejuvenated so many careers via waivers.

Robert Lang was a waiver-wire pick-up folks, the same guy who was leading the league in scoring for the bulk of the season...

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Old
03-31-2004, 02:59 PM
  #32
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In 23 games with the Pens, Jackman is a mere -4.

When the Pens begin to play better, I don't think you'll be seeing any -30s from him. Our goals-against problems don't lie with Jackman and Tarnstrom.

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Old
03-31-2004, 03:07 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle
Since his arrival in Pittsburgh, he helped end their 18 game losing streak and has been 1 PPG. He is a -4 on the most scored upon team in the league. Now, he's gotten 15 of his 23 points on the PP which means 8 at ES. Leads one to believe that he's been on the ice for 12 goals against in 23 games in Pittsburgh. Considering that this team allows on average 3.725 goals/game, and Jackman has been on this ice for 0.522 goals against/game and averaging 24:24 TOI.
Faulty reasoning on a few levels

1) He dosnt have to get a point for every time his team scores when he is on the ice

2) PK goals dont count for +/-

3) The Pens have been hot recently. For some reason I would tend to believe that they have given up less than 3.725 gpg since he joined them.

I think that it is safe to say that he has been on the ice for more than 12 GA.


Last edited by devildan: 03-31-2004 at 03:13 PM.
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Old
03-31-2004, 03:10 PM
  #34
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Once there will be more pressure on the Pens to perform, you'll see that Ric's numbers will start to decline again. The guy just cant handle pressure.

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Old
03-31-2004, 03:13 PM
  #35
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Neither could Glen Murray or Markus Naslund.

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Old
03-31-2004, 03:14 PM
  #36
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....or Zubov!





I still remember the jeers at the then Civic Arena......."SHOOT THE PUCK!"

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Old
03-31-2004, 03:15 PM
  #37
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Actually, Zubov was a star in New York city, so I wouldn't go that far.

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Old
03-31-2004, 03:26 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
The only reasoning I can figure as to why the Leafs traded him for Berehowsky is because they were doing Ric a favour. Either way, this could become a very, very lobsided trade in a couple of years.

I'd be angry if I was a Leaf fan
A) He wanted out
B) He sstunk worse than cow feces during his time in Toronto

A+B=C

C) He had absolutely no trade value at the time

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Old
03-31-2004, 03:26 PM
  #39
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To lazy to read. but here's my take.

As was said earlier, Jackman has the tools, problem is his toolshed wasn't used enough in Toronto. He needs to get the 25 minutes a game to be productive. It is not a bad move by the leafs, nor the pens.

Jackman has no defensive upside. Berehowsky has a smidgen more than Rick. Therefore, during the playoffs, if a starting dman get's injured, a dman with defensive capabilities is more useful than a dman with only offense.


Remember, Jackman is a -15 this season. While Berehowsky is a -11. And he played the majority of his games for Pittsburgh.

I say this deal has no real losers. Not this year anyhow. If Jackman can turn into a solid #3 or #4 dman then , yes Toronto is the eventual loser. But right now, the trade is a draw. Sure jackman is doing lots for Pittsburgh. Berehowsky was on their top d pairing as well. To Toronto, Jackman was not depth. He's to prone to brain farts. Berehowsky eats less beans.(still eats em, but less of em)

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Old
03-31-2004, 03:31 PM
  #40
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You also have to look at the two teams.

Toronto has traded their #8th depth wise for a #8 depth dman.

Pittsburgh traded their #2 dman for their now #2 dman.

Two very different teams, at two very different ends of the spectrum.

Pittsburgh has the time to sit on a former 1st rounder with mental problems and no trade value. Toronto doesn't.

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Old
03-31-2004, 03:40 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
no I haven't... who even watches the Pens anymore?? but I have watched enough of him on the Leafs...

while I'm sure his play has improved, you can't take a sample of 25 or so games as how this player has turned around his game, given that he's shown no signs of this before.

until Jackman can help his team win games as a defender and improves his overall game for an extended period of time - like over a season, he's still the average player he was a few months ago, playing on a hot streak.... last year at this time Tarnstrom was supposed to be the next Norris winner, and even though he's had good numbers this year, he's been far from being a top dman in the league.
For someone that hasn't watched the Pens, you sure seem to have some strong opinions about their players.

S L

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Old
03-31-2004, 03:48 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountie
I do not think Jackman is going to be consistently at, or really near this current level. I expect to see the guy at around 25-30 points annually, which isn't bad, but is not really good either.
I think he'll hit 25-30 powerplay points alone.

The guy is money offensively, and it's not just because of his big shot. He can move the puck and he's just plain skilled. His defense has been better than average, too.

Barring injuries and all of that, and assuming he plays a top 4 role all season long and is on the #1 powerplay with Tarnstrom, I think he'll creep up towards 50 points. I wouldn't mind seeing some more bone-crunching hits as well.

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Old
03-31-2004, 03:53 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Latin
For someone that hasn't watched the Pens, you sure seem to have some strong opinions about their players.

S L
who do I have strong opinions of??

most of the players I do, I have watched enough off in the past, or earlier in the season or in seasons past... I have watched the Pens quite a bit before - have been a huge Mario fan since his Laval days and he's be probably my favorite player I've ever followed - so I've seen plenty of pens games in the past...

now the Pens are without Lemieux and have about as much talent as most AHL teams do, so I've instead chosen to follow other teams... after all there are 30 teams in the league, and with watching the canucks for all games, every game, it doesn't make it possible to follow every other team as well - the pens therefore, thanks in large part to not having Mario and being as bad as they are, are a team that is near the top of the "not interested" list now.

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Old
03-31-2004, 03:55 PM
  #44
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Toronto fans, think of it this way: you could have wasted a high first round pick on Jackman like Dallas.

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Old
03-31-2004, 03:56 PM
  #45
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beware of the Leafs
Once there will be more pressure on the Pens to perform, you'll see that Ric's numbers will start to decline again. The guy just cant handle pressure.
This is based on?

It takes several years for an offensive D-man to develop in this league.

As I mentioned earlier, what athlete can perform under the pressure of making a mistake, then being benched for it?

This is a ridiculous way to develop a young D-man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTimeHockey
To lazy to read. but here's my take.

As was said earlier, Jackman has the tools, problem is his toolshed wasn't used enough in Toronto. He needs to get the 25 minutes a game to be productive. It is not a bad move by the leafs, nor the pens.

Jackman has no defensive upside. Berehowsky has a smidgen more than Rick. Therefore, during the playoffs, if a starting dman get's injured, a dman with defensive capabilities is more useful than a dman with only offense.


Remember, Jackman is a -15 this season. While Berehowsky is a -11. And he played the majority of his games for Pittsburgh.

I say this deal has no real losers. Not this year anyhow. If Jackman can turn into a solid #3 or #4 dman then , yes Toronto is the eventual loser. But right now, the trade is a draw. Sure jackman is doing lots for Pittsburgh. Berehowsky was on their top d pairing as well. To Toronto, Jackman was not depth. He's to prone to brain farts. Berehowsky eats less beans.(still eats em, but less of em)
Berehowsky made rookie mistakes practically every shift. Why do you think Pens fans where so thrilled when he was moved?

Jackman's defensive game, as mentioned in this thread, is more than adequate.

It doesn't matter how he played in Toronto. It matters how he is playing now. Period.

Try watching him play a game or two for the Pens before you make misguided comments.

- He rarely gets beaten one on one
- He is very adept at getting the puck out
- He makes excellent breakout passes
- He plays phy. along the board and in front of his own net

His defensive game is very solid. You can assume whatever you like, but it won't make it factual.

Jackman will also continue to score points as long as he gets his minutes.

Why?

Because he has a hard shot that he gets off quickly, low, and he gets it on the net. He rarely misses the net.

His shot has created more scoring opportunities for his teammates than any Pens D-man I can think of since L. Murphy left.

Unless he forgets how to shoot between now and next year, he will keep putting up points.

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Old
03-31-2004, 03:57 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTimeHockey
Pittsburgh traded their #2 dman for their now #2 dman.
Thats not true at all.

Berehowsky was terrible in Pittsburgh. I dont think he was ever viewed as the #2 guy. Tarnstrom and Orpik were definitely ahead of him. Melichar and Bergevin were better then him. He is and was a spare part defenseman.

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Old
03-31-2004, 03:59 PM
  #47
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
who do I have strong opinions of??

most of the players I do, I have watched enough off in the past, or earlier in the season or in seasons past... I have watched the Pens quite a bit before - have been a huge Mario fan since his Laval days and he's be probably my favorite player I've ever followed - so I've seen plenty of pens games in the past...

now the Pens are without Lemieux and have about as much talent as most AHL teams do, so I've instead chosen to follow other teams... after all there are 30 teams in the league, and with watching the canucks for all games, every game, it doesn't make it possible to follow every other team as well - the pens therefore, thanks in large part to not having Mario and being as bad as they are, are a team that is near the top of the "not interested" list now.
Much like your posts are are on the top of my "not interested list"

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Old
03-31-2004, 04:08 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTimeHockey
Pittsburgh traded their #2 dman for their now #2 dman.


Uhmmmm...#2 D-man? Drake?

He was becoming a regular healthy scratch and/or the spare D-man who saw a shift here and there while in Pittsburgh. And that was with our #2 (Rozival) out for the year already.

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Old
03-31-2004, 04:09 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly>
Much like your posts are are on the top of my "not interested list"
I suggest then you use the block function here at HF and just ignore my posts...

replying to it saying you're not interested makes it sound like you're just trying to insult me and really isn't appreciated.

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Old
03-31-2004, 04:13 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
replying to it saying you're not interested makes it sound like you're just trying to insult me and really isn't appreciated.
replying to it saying you're not interested makes it sound like you're just trying to insult the Pens and really isn't appreciated.

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