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Why is Sang so underrated here?

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Old
07-19-2009, 01:47 AM
  #1
Beacon
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Why is Sang so underrated here?

I really don't get why so few people like Sang. So what if his preseason wasn't great last year? The kid finshed his junior career with over ppg, scoring almost as much as Grachev just did, but he did it as a defenseman.

His rookie year the AHL was great. He had over half a point per game and really improved as the year wore on. In the playoffs, while facing tougher opposition (only 3 lines play and they work harder on defense, and the goalie is never the backup), he had 5 points in 6 games, almost ppg.

Sang is vastly underrated here. I think he will make the team this upcoming year. I think he will be an excellent defenseman for us dithin 2 years.

I would bet that he will not be ranked in the top 5 by the voters, but I promise you that when all is said and done, he will be in the top 3, and maybe even the best NHLer among our group of prospects.

I would not rank him as our #1 prospect, but he is certainly much better than most people here give him credit for.

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07-19-2009, 01:58 AM
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t3hg00se
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I don't really think people underrate him. He's shaping up to be fantastic, it's just that MDZ is still shiny and new, and frankly, is giving us a little more to talk about, we've been talking about Sangs so much already. I'm saying he nabs a roster spot though.

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07-19-2009, 02:13 AM
  #3
Burlington Bomb 26
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I like the kid alot. I think he could be very good, but I think he's so underrated because his is the least safest of our top 5 prospects IMO.

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07-19-2009, 02:25 AM
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I'd say mainly because (by most reports) his defensive abilities haven't progressed to the point where he could be a top pairing guy, and MDZ still has that upside, although it's 50/50 if he hits it either.

I do think Sangs might be the best prospect we have that will fill a serious need on the current roster. AA has the chance to be a very good center and Grachev could be that elite winger, but I think Sangs will at the very worst be a good PP QB type.

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07-19-2009, 02:32 AM
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Typical shiny new toy syndrome in MDZ.

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07-19-2009, 07:03 AM
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One way or the other MDZ outplayed him in training camp last season and that is the last real look that any of us had at either player. You could argue that Sanguinetti had more reason to be nervous--as turning pro it was his first real crack at making the big team and that MDZ not being a realistic option last year had no reason to be nervous. Both of them pretty much work out to the same thing--a take charge offensive minded d-man. Hopefully both work out. Even so, both seem to be in need of improving their defensive games.

By the way MDZ's OHL stats if anything are a little better than Sanguinetti's--so that's not an argument going anywhere when comparing the two. Sanguinetti's best argument against MDZ is more experience--including last year in the AHL. What his chances are of making the team may depend more on how he matches up against Heikkinen or Gilroy in training camp or whether the Rangers might want to play it safer or a little cheaper with Sauer or Potter. Until training camp and the exhibition season is completed there's really no way of knowing who's going to make the team and I'm not particularly rooting for one player over another.

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07-19-2009, 08:21 AM
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Ehh, his defense was a work in progress, a couple of people soured on him and then the gang mentality kicked in. All of the sudden a bunch of people had inside connections and could tell us, "The Rangers clearly like MDZ better and Sanguinetti has slipped in their minds," despite actual quotes from actual organizational personnel stating exactly the opposite.

And as D713B mentioned, we drafted Del Zotto.

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07-19-2009, 09:09 AM
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I've had both Sangs and MDZ on the same level talent-wise since MDZ was drafted. I never believed drafting MDZ made Bobby expendable. The signing of Gilroy is what would worry me in terms of making him expendable, at least from the organization's view point.

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07-19-2009, 09:39 AM
  #9
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Shiny new toy. I think Sangs probably has the better chance of making the NHL team this season than many people give him credit for.

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07-19-2009, 10:06 AM
  #10
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Sangs still needs work in his own zone. Some serious work actually. he progressed over the year in the AHL but still needs work IMO.

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07-19-2009, 10:20 AM
  #11
darrenturcotte#8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
One way or the other MDZ outplayed him in training camp last season and that is the last real look that any of us had at either player.
Couldn't agree more. MDZ stood out and made Sangs look like the 2nd fiddle. I saw Sangs a few times in Hartford and his defensive skills aren't NHL caliber yet. This is true on many offensive minded NHL D-men, but the reality is Sangs will not be a #1 D-man unless he gets substantially better in his own zone.

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07-19-2009, 10:25 AM
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LyNX27
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It's all been said. Not that hes bad, but...

-Shiny New Toy Syndrome
-Last look most fans had was him next to MDZ
-Not as much growth interms of Defensive play as expected
-New D prospects (Gilroy, McDonagh...)

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07-19-2009, 11:21 AM
  #13
Beacon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Couldn't agree more. MDZ stood out and made Sangs look like the 2nd fiddle. I saw Sangs a few times in Hartford and his defensive skills aren't NHL caliber yet. This is true on many offensive minded NHL D-men, but the reality is Sangs will not be a #1 D-man unless he gets substantially better in his own zone.
I remember everyone complaining about Zubov's defense. In fact, I remember the same complaints about Leetch his first couple of years. Two redundant offensive dmen who can't play defense, we were told.

Patrick was the shiny new toy who could play in both ends. He turned out nice, but Leetch and Zubov became Hall of Famers.

It is much easier to teach defense than offense.

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07-19-2009, 11:27 AM
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Yeah i agree that it's been a bit of an avalanche when it comes to Bobby Sangs. One person said his D isnt quite up to snuff and even the people who didnt watch him said it was true and started repeating it. What do you expect? Dmen take a while to develop and the Rangers know when a kid is ready to play in NHL so let's let them worry about it. Sangs still looks like he could be a good NHLer, it's all a matter of whether he can be a top 4 guy or a bottom pairing guy who can be a PP specialist.

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07-19-2009, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by playstationline View Post
Sangs still needs work in his own zone.
How, exactly, do we know this? I haven't seen the reports from the guys that see the Wolfpack a lot. Is that what those guys are saying? If not, how are we to judge a player's progress in the defensive zone without seeing it?

I have Sanguinetti penciled in on the roster for this season, so I'm not someone underrating him. I see him and MDZ as having very similar ceilings with Sangs being a year older with pro experience under his belt. One way or the other, we're gonna get a good look at him at the NHL level this season. Whether he makes it out of camp, or the player who does needs to be sent back down or one of our D gets injured, I'd be truly surprised if he spent all of next season in Hartford.

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07-19-2009, 11:42 AM
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SML
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
I remember everyone complaining about Zubov's defense. In fact, I remember the same complaints about Leetch his first couple of years. Two redundant offensive dmen who can't play defense, we were told.

Patrick was the shiny new toy who could play in both ends. He turned out nice, but Leetch and Zubov became Hall of Famers.

It is much easier to teach defense than offense.
How was James Patrick the "shiny new toy" when he broke in with the Rangers in 1983, and Leetch didn't come until 1998 and Zubov until ten years after in 1993?

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07-19-2009, 12:06 PM
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The simple answer I guess is that he is swallowed up in the depth of our young defense. He had a good, but certainly unspectacular year in Harford numbers-wise, and I think a lot of people here (myslef included) feel that Zorro will be the better pp QB. That said, Sanguinetti is 2 years older, and is much more likely to be on the team this year. So he deserves more attention.

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07-19-2009, 12:55 PM
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GWOW
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Originally Posted by SML View Post
How was James Patrick the "shiny new toy" when he broke in with the Rangers in 1983, and Leetch didn't come until 1998 and Zubov until ten years after in 1993?

Patrick was a 1st round pick and Greschner's heir apparent, so there was a ton of expectations, especially since he could skate like the wind for his size

If i recall correctly, Patrick had a cup of coffee post 1984 olympics, had a very good close to his season, and had a rookie slump in 1985. We all know that Leetch in 1988 was amazing in his post-olympic stint and his Calder season but looked really out of place in 1990 before breaking his ankle in Toronto

Zubov was very good in 1992-93 but the whole team (notably the goaltending) was garbage.


Sanguinetti, IMHO, is behind schedule for a 1st round pick. Zubov, Patrick and Leetch all made the team ahead of schedule. In fact, you can say that Zubov blew the doors off of everybody to make a team that was already veteran-heavy on defense in 1993 and 1994

I'm not a big Sangs fan. His whole draft class has pretty much made the NHL already
.

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07-19-2009, 01:05 PM
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Tawnos
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Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus View Post
Sanguinetti, IMHO, is behind schedule for a 1st round pick. Zubov, Patrick and Leetch all made the team ahead of schedule. In fact, you can say that Zubov blew the doors off of everybody to make a team that was already veteran-heavy on defense in 1993 and 1994

I'm not a big Sangs fan. His whole draft class has pretty much made the NHL already
.
Or if you actually look at it more closely, he's right there with his draft class. Of the 9 defensemen taken in the first round of 06, only 1 has played more than 5 NHL games. He was the first overall pick. Only two other defensemen have played in the NHL at all (Wishart 5 w/San Jose and Vishnevskiy 3 w/Dallas). I'd say Sanguinetti is developing right at pace.

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07-19-2009, 01:22 PM
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Jarkko Immonen
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If you actually watched him play night in and night out last season you wouldn't be saying his first season was great. Offensively, maybe. Defensively, god no. He has lots to work on.

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07-19-2009, 02:08 PM
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SML
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Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus View Post
Patrick was a 1st round pick and Greschner's heir apparent, so there was a ton of expectations, especially since he could skate like the wind for his size

If i recall correctly, Patrick had a cup of coffee post 1984 olympics, had a very good close to his season, and had a rookie slump in 1985. We all know that Leetch in 1988 was amazing in his post-olympic stint and his Calder season but looked really out of place in 1990 before breaking his ankle in Toronto

Zubov was very good in 1992-93 but the whole team (notably the goaltending) was garbage.


Sanguinetti, IMHO, is behind schedule for a 1st round pick. Zubov, Patrick and Leetch all made the team ahead of schedule. In fact, you can say that Zubov blew the doors off of everybody to make a team that was already veteran-heavy on defense in 1993 and 1994

I'm not a big Sangs fan. His whole draft class has pretty much made the NHL already
.
I recall James Patrick very well. My point, unless I missed the intent of the poster I quoted, was that Patrick preceeded both Leetch and Zubov, so I failed to see how he was any "shiny new toy" compared to those two. Fortunately for both Leetch and Zubov, free agency was not what it is now back then. If it were, we probably would have picked up some UFA has been to take the opportunity right away from them.

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Old
07-19-2009, 02:14 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Couldn't agree more. MDZ stood out and made Sangs look like the 2nd fiddle. I saw Sangs a few times in Hartford and his defensive skills aren't NHL caliber yet. This is true on many offensive minded NHL D-men, but the reality is Sangs will not be a #1 D-man unless he gets substantially better in his own zone.
Bang on. All these people saying "shiny new toy" must not have watched pre-season where MDZ looked extremely better than Sanguinetti. If Torts was coaching last year, Del Zotto would have made the team.

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07-19-2009, 02:15 PM
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He's doing just fine. I, for one, am not overrating him. In fact, I think the roster spot this coming fall is his to lose.

In fact, if our D cupboard wasn't so full of talent, I'd say he'd be making the team for sure. Can you really demand more out of a player coming into his 3rd post-draft season?

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Old
07-19-2009, 02:31 PM
  #24
darrenturcotte#8
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
I remember everyone complaining about Zubov's defense. In fact, I remember the same complaints about Leetch his first couple of years. Two redundant offensive dmen who can't play defense, we were told.

Patrick was the shiny new toy who could play in both ends. He turned out nice, but Leetch and Zubov became Hall of Famers.

It is much easier to teach defense than offense.
There is no question D-men seem to get better defensively with age. The point is Sangs didn't look great in either end in pre-season last yr and while plenty of guys go on to have great careers, many offensive minded D-men never make it because they are too much of a liability. If you are saying his upside is as a #5 dman/pp specialist then maybe. People thought he was a lock to be a top 4 20+ min guy and if he doesn't improve on what I've seen, it will never happen.

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07-19-2009, 03:15 PM
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Because he's a defenseman that doesn't play very good defense. His skills on offense are very good, but he needs some serious work in his own zone.

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