HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Top 10 All-time Defensemen

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-19-2010, 04:10 PM
  #176
lextune
I'm too old for this
 
lextune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Country: United States
Posts: 9,854
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kudelski View Post
Kind of unrelated, but my list of top defensemen in NHL 94 for Super Nintendo:


Awesome.

lextune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2010, 04:22 PM
  #177
Starchild74
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 324
vCash: 500
Here is my top 10 of all time and reasoning for it. I find it very hard to really compare players from different era's but feel I know enough of the history of the players that I understand why players Like Eddie Shore were loved and praised so much.

1.. Bobby Orr No reasoning needed he was the greatest all round defenceman ever

2.. Eddie Shore with everything said about him he was probably the closest to Orr then any other defenceman

3.. Doug Harvey Was amazing defensively but was good offensively too and a true leader

4A..Paul Coffey The greatest offensive defenceman ever not named Orr adn his defence was very underated I put him ahead of Bourque and Potvin because his offense was way ahead of both of them and his defence was not as bad as others say. Remember one thing if you are putting the puck in the net or setting up goals or making breakout pass then the other theam can't score so in a way is offense helped is defence.

4B.. Denis Potvin His offence is just as good as Bourque and his defence is better then Bourque. Potvin played with a mean streak as well. He hit very hard and alot of his injuries were from the style he played.

4C.. Ray Bourque I know it is a shock to see him below Coffey and Potvin but as good as Bourque was and believe me he was I just think between him Potvin and Coffey it is a tough choice but in the end I feel that Bourque was just a tad below these guys but not by much

7.. Larry Robinson He was probably the most dominant defenceman ever. I mean he was so huge it was hard for the opposing players to get leverage against him. Also one of the first Defenceman to ever be used on the powerplay to screen the goalie. He was too big to move out of the way. How many players could stand in front of the net with Robinson around and his offence was pretty good too

8.. Niklas Lidtsrom Lidtsrom just does everything good. He is not great at any one thing but is not terrible at one thing either. That is the problem though not great at anything but too good to be left of the top 10

9.. Brad Park was basically a mini Orr in his time could do everything that a defenceman could do and was one of the most underated offensive defenceman ever in my opinion.

10.. Rod Langway I found it hard rounding out the top 10 and felt that alot of times we look at offence and it outways the defence. Like myself looking at Coffey being such a great offensive defenceman but and average defensive defenceman. TO me Rod Langway was the Paul Coffey of defensive defenceman that I ever saw. He was by far and away the best at defending his own end. The last true defensive defenceman to ever win the Norris in a time of Coffey,Potvin,Bourque,Wilson. Now I am sure in the 40's,50's,60's and even while Rod Langway played their were great defensive defenceman but I never saw them play or feel he is ahead of guys like Serge Savard and Scott Stevens

Starchild74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2010, 10:20 PM
  #178
BNHL
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 17,389
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by poise View Post
I'm not really putting a great emphasis on the awards and trophy voting and you know my preference for the Offensive game. Again, Eddie Shore is enigmatic in that I haven't seen him play at all, and many accounts of him have also not seen him play. The media on him is scarce is well, but from what I have read on him is that he was like a Denis Potvin type Player. I also have read quite a few accounts on Earl Seibert being almost at Shore's level. While there's no doubt in my mind that Shore is the best Defensemen of his era, I believe that he was not the best Player of his time (Howie Morenz, Frank Boucher, and Bill Cook for starters). Of course, the best information I have on it is a few newspaper articles along with stats and awards voting (which almost certainly were held to different standards than those of today) so the opinion is tenuous.

As for the other Defensemen, I'm fairly happy with Coffey's placement because I've seen enough of most of them (except for Doug Harvey and Red Kelly and Bobby Orr but their is still a ton more information about those two). I'm firmly convinced that Coffey was a better Player than Nick Lidstrom or Chris Chelios. Denis Potvin was a close one, I believe I once compared them and gave my reasons why I would take Coffey. Vyacheslav Fetisov though, is the one I recently changed my mind on (I used to slot him before Coffey because I had the impression that Fetisov had a better longevity than Coffey which upon closer examination I'm not as convinced of).

Again, to me, Coffey's play from 1983-1986 is second only to Orr among Defensemen (and not a distant second). Coffey has a great case to be considered as the second best Player behind Gretzky throughout that span and their are several attestations to that (I personally would consider him third after Jari Kurri).

Just some reading on how Coffey was regarded at the time:
Orr was 18 when he entered the league,not 20.

BNHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2010, 10:29 PM
  #179
Cake or Death
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewayzLEAFS View Post
at least everyone can agree with orr, hoarvey, shote and bourque being the top 4 d-men
I cannot. I do not seem to have the same value on longevity many do and I simply cannot see either Lidstrom or Bourque ahead of Potvin. I can fully understand anyone putting those guys in any interchangeable order. But to say Bourque is in a different level or category than Potvin is something I cannot comprehend. Personally, I think Potvin is the better d-men.

  Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2010, 10:57 PM
  #180
Corey Perry*
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Beach, Ca
Country: Ireland
Posts: 3,526
vCash: 500
Orr is definitly the best defensman, if not the greatest player of all time.

After Orr, it's basically personal opinion.

Corey Perry* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2010, 11:35 PM
  #181
Hardyvan123
[email protected]
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,553
vCash: 500
It will be interesting to see how Lidstrom is viewed after he is done.

He is after all just having another dominant season once again and will be in the conversation with Orr as the best Dman of all time IMO if he plays at his current level for another 1,2 or 3 years and another Cup will help his case as well.

He will be in the Orr conversation due to the length, and strength of competition, of his career at the top level IMO.

Hardyvan123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2010, 11:48 PM
  #182
JackSlater
Registered User
 
JackSlater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,212
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
It will be interesting to see how Lidstrom is viewed after he is done.

He is after all just having another dominant season once again and will be in the conversation with Orr as the best Dman of all time IMO if he plays at his current level for another 1,2 or 3 years and another Cup will help his case as well.

He will be in the Orr conversation due to the length, and strength of competition, of his career at the top level IMO.
Orr was so much better than Lidstrom at his very best that it shouldn't matter how long Lidstrom plays at a very high level. Lidstrom isn't close and never will be.

JackSlater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-03-2010, 11:52 PM
  #183
ushvinder
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Orr was so much better than Lidstrom at his very best that it shouldn't matter how long Lidstrom plays at a very high level. Lidstrom isn't close and never will be.
Yeah but how long before lidstrom gets closer to bourque, harvey and shore. If lidstrom played in shore's era, i would assum he would get mvps, considering that other d-men not in his league did.

ushvinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2010, 12:00 AM
  #184
Hawkey Town 18
Moderator
 
Hawkey Town 18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 5,913
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
It will be interesting to see how Lidstrom is viewed after he is done.

He is after all just having another dominant season once again and will be in the conversation with Orr as the best Dman of all time IMO if he plays at his current level for another 1,2 or 3 years and another Cup will help his case as well.

He will be in the Orr conversation due to the length, and strength of competition, of his career at the top level IMO.
The Lidstrom era of defenseman is generally thought of as a weaker era, with old guys like Chelios finishing runner-up for the Norris and MacInnis winning one when he never could in his younger days.

There is no way Lidstrom will ever be in the Orr conversation. Their peaks are just too far apart. If you want to say he will be in the Harvey, Shore, Bourque conversation, then fine.

Hawkey Town 18 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2010, 12:05 AM
  #185
Hardyvan123
[email protected]
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Orr was so much better than Lidstrom at his very best that it shouldn't matter how long Lidstrom plays at a very high level. Lidstrom isn't close and never will be.
orr was a great player but only had only 9 complete seasons and only 2 Stanley cups in a watered down NHL during his career. His "dominance" over his peers can be partly explained by the watered down competition and the unique situation that he was in with Boston and the offensive juggernaut he led.

Don't get me wrong Orr is the best player in the NHL for a good part of those 9 full seasons but we need to take into account all the information when evaluating players from different times IMO.

Hardyvan123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2010, 05:22 AM
  #186
pluppe
Registered User
 
pluppe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 693
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
orr was a great player but only had only 9 complete seasons and only 2 Stanley cups in a watered down NHL during his career. His "dominance" over his peers can be partly explained by the watered down competition and the unique situation that he was in with Boston and the offensive juggernaut he led.

Don't get me wrong Orr is the best player in the NHL for a good part of those 9 full seasons but we need to take into account all the information when evaluating players from different times IMO.
I love Lidström and agree that he is closing in on the other 3 but Orr might be the best player ever. neither of the others is in that discussion.

pluppe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2010, 05:40 AM
  #187
blueandgoldguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Greg's River Heights
Posts: 2,668
vCash: 500
I would put Lidstrom ahead of Bourque right now. He's just as good defensively, if not better then Bourque ever was and would have had more points than him if he played in the 80s.

blueandgoldguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2010, 06:09 AM
  #188
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,322
vCash: 500
1. Bobby Orr

2. Doug Harvey
3. Eddie Shore

4. Ray Bourque
5. Nicklas Lidstrom

6. Denis Potvin
7. Red Kelly
8. Viacheslav Fetisov
9. Larry Robinson

10. Sprague Cleghorn

Dreakmur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2010, 06:14 AM
  #189
revolverjgw
Registered User
 
revolverjgw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
would have had more points than him if he played in the 80s.
No he wouldn't have, especially if he had to play on the Bruins instead of the Wings. Bourque often was the leading scorer on his team, even once by 23 points, that's how inferior his support was.

revolverjgw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2010, 07:14 AM
  #190
RorschachWJK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuusamo
Country: Finland
Posts: 3,681
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
It will be interesting to see how Lidstrom is viewed after he is done.

He is after all just having another dominant season once again and will be in the conversation with Orr as the best Dman of all time IMO if he plays at his current level for another 1,2 or 3 years and another Cup will help his case as well.

He will be in the Orr conversation due to the length, and strength of competition, of his career at the top level IMO.
No way. Orr is untouchable by anybody playing now. Perhaps in the future a freak of nature for a hockey player will some along and surpass Orr but it could be well after we're all pushing daisies

RorschachWJK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2010, 08:59 AM
  #191
lextune
I'm too old for this
 
lextune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Country: United States
Posts: 9,854
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
I would put Lidstrom ahead of Bourque right now. He's just as good defensively, if not better then Bourque ever was and would have had more points than him if he played in the 80s.
Bourque was a 19 time all-star against much stronger competition than Lidstrom (11x an all-star) has ever faced.

lextune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2010, 09:19 AM
  #192
BraveCanadian
Registered User
 
BraveCanadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,194
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lextune View Post
Bourque was a 19 time all-star against much stronger competition than Lidstrom (11x an all-star) has ever faced.
Isn't that kind of exaggerating when their careers overlapped for 10 years?

That means that you have to asterix 10 of Bourques all stars now too.. or does that show the bias too much?

I mean for the record I agree that Bourque won his Norris trophies against (at times) tougher competition but we can't discount one without discounting the other for those overlapping years or it isn't fair.


Last edited by BraveCanadian: 11-04-2010 at 09:25 AM.
BraveCanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2010, 09:50 AM
  #193
Psycho Papa Joe
Porkchop Hoser
 
Psycho Papa Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cesspool, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,349
vCash: 500
10 best I've seen in the NHL, in no particular order:

Potvin
Robinson
Bourque
Lidstrom
Chelios
Park
Pronger
Salming
MacInnis
Stevens

Psycho Papa Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2010, 10:26 AM
  #194
Fredrik_71
Registered User
 
Fredrik_71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 1,074
vCash: 500
I would say that the top-4 are pretty untouchable at the moment.
1. Bobby Orr
2. Doug Harvey
3. Eddie Shore
4. Ray Bourque

It has to be a pretty spectacular d-man in the future to nudge his way into the top-4. Lids and Potvin are dead-even at number 5 and its a matter of perspective on who you prefer.

//Cheers

Fredrik_71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2010, 11:25 AM
  #195
Infinite Vision*
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
10 best I've seen in the NHL, in no particular order:

Potvin
Robinson
Bourque
Lidstrom
Chelios
Park
Pronger
Salming
MacInnis
Stevens
You must not have seen Orr.

Infinite Vision* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2010, 11:28 AM
  #196
Psycho Papa Joe
Porkchop Hoser
 
Psycho Papa Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cesspool, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Vision View Post
You must not have seen Orr.
Unfortunately, and I don't know why, but my only memories of Orr are in a Chicago uniform and the 76 Canada Cup, which is not enough to form an opinion on him. I recall very little of Orr at his best.

Psycho Papa Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2010, 01:18 PM
  #197
BraveCanadian
Registered User
 
BraveCanadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,194
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Vision View Post
You must not have seen Orr.
Most people on here have never seen him live.

And highlight reels aren't really a good way to form an opinion.

BraveCanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2010, 01:30 PM
  #198
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ushvinder View Post
Yeah but how long before lidstrom gets closer to bourque, harvey and shore. If lidstrom played in shore's era, i would assum he would get mvps, considering that other d-men not in his league did.
If Lidstrom stays on top for another few years or has another ridiculous playoff run (ending in at least a trip to the finals where he plays a major part), I think it'll start being a lot harder to justify there being a gap between Bourque and him.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2010, 01:31 PM
  #199
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
orr was a great player but only had only 9 complete seasons and only 2 Stanley cups in a watered down NHL during his career. His "dominance" over his peers can be partly explained by the watered down competition and the unique situation that he was in with Boston and the offensive juggernaut he led.

Don't get me wrong Orr is the best player in the NHL for a good part of those 9 full seasons but we need to take into account all the information when evaluating players from different times IMO.
Do you rate Mark Messier over Mario Lemieux?

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2010, 01:34 PM
  #200
Hawkey Town 18
Moderator
 
Hawkey Town 18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 5,913
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Do you rate Mark Messier over Mario Lemieux?
Wow, that is the exact same comparison I thought of when I read that post.

Hawkey Town 18 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:32 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2017 All Rights Reserved.