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Rangers need a No.1 Playmaking Center. Start spitting out names!

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Old
07-20-2009, 01:47 PM
  #51
GWOW
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I don't know about that...aside from a washed up Markus Naslund and Brendan Shannahan and a disinterested Jaromir Jagr, who have the Rangers really provided Gomez with to play? I mean, if you invest as much money as you did in Gomez, you would think the more likely following investement would be in a scoring winger, not a Chris Drury or Wade Redden.

I just think the Rangers filled one need, by creating another...they used to need scoring wingers, now they need a playmaking center...it's a wash


I think Zherdev, Shanahan and Jagr both qualify as "scoring wingers", maybe the same or more so than Gionta. In fact, has Gomez ever centered an elite player? It seems like he works better with 2nd and 3rd liners than with top line guys

I watched over 160 games with Gomez as a Ranger. He was a liability half the time. In fact, for almost 3/4 of the season, the 2nd PP unit centered by Dubinsky was the only one producing.

And Gomez was not a playmaking center in the classic sense like Oates or Nylander or Janney or Thornton. Gomez created opportunities with his skating and his ability to put the puck on net, but very few with his passing, which at times was horrible. Only with Callahan did he realize where he liked the puck and kept feeding it to him.

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Old
07-20-2009, 01:48 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyforhockey View Post
Maybe you just need to be patient with dubinsky developing.
Maybe our cap situation doesn't allow us to do anything more than the correct course of action, which is allow the youth to do what they were drafted to do.

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Old
07-20-2009, 01:48 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by strungout View Post
If this was 3-4 years ago I'd say yes

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I don't know about that...aside from a washed up Markus Naslund and Brendan Shannahan and a disinterested Jaromir Jagr, who have the Rangers really provided Gomez with to play? I mean, if you invest as much money as you did in Gomez, you would think the more likely following investement would be in a scoring winger, not a Chris Drury or Wade Redden.
Yeah god forbid someone has to play with Jagr, what a talentless bum that guy is. No wonder Gomez couldn't work with him.

Fact is that Gomez just can't really mesh with anyone who comes along, even if they are talented players. He needs players of a certain sort. Perhaps you can blame the Rangers for not deducing what kind of player Gomez needs exactly, and then providing him with that player right away, but they did try to get some skilled players and have him play with them, it just didn't work out great.

To be honest, if he was paired with Gaborik we'd probably see a lot of Gomez lugging the puck through the neutral zone while Gaborik has to wait at the blueline. Then Gomez streaks into the zone, while Gaborik is flatfooted, Gomez takes one look and sees he's surrounded by 4 opponents so he throws a weak wrist shot on net. Repeat ad nauseum, except twice per season he gets lucky and a shot goes in.

He's also not consistently good at holding onto the puck and making a play off the cycle.

He'll probably be fine with the Habs, he's not totally untalented and can't do anything right or something, but he also creates enough of his own problems that I wouldn't blame all of his shortcomings in the past two years on the Rangers.

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Old
07-20-2009, 01:48 PM
  #54
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Savard for Zherdev, DelZoto and a 1st

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Old
07-20-2009, 01:48 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus View Post
I think Zherdev, Shanahan and Jagr both qualify as "scoring wingers", maybe the same or more so than Gionta. In fact, has Gomez ever centered an elite player? It seems like he works better with 2nd and 3rd liners than with top line guys

I watched over 160 games with Gomez as a Ranger. He was a liability half the time. In fact, for almost 3/4 of the season, the 2nd PP unit centered by Dubinsky was the only one producing.

And Gomez was not a playmaking center in the classic sense like Oates or Nylander or Janney or Thornton. Gomez created opportunities with his skating and his ability to put the puck on net, but very few with his passing, which at times was horrible. Only with Callahan did he realize where he liked the puck and kept feeding it to him.
The average Scott Gomez possession results in a rather intelligent rush up the ice, culminating in a turnover or a wrister into the chest.

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07-20-2009, 01:50 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I just think the Rangers filled one need, by creating another...they used to need scoring wingers, now they need a playmaking center...it's a wash
So, you wouldn't trade Scott Gomez for Marian Gaborik, Chris Higgins, and Ryan McDonagh?

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Old
07-20-2009, 01:50 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by CanadianDevil View Post
yes i did, who do u have of GREAT value again? im sure u guys can keep making all the small micro-trades that Slats has been doing so far this offseason but u guys have no real assests to make a big trade like u need to.

prove me wrong throw out some names if your convinced you do.
Great value? Are you serious?

Put your Jersey love aside like many other competent posters here are capable of when discussing the value of their rivals chips.

-Lundqvist. Almost as valuable as an Ovechkin, or Crosby.
-Marc Staal.
-Marian Gaborik.
-Dan Girardi
-Brandon Dubinsky
-Ryan Callahan
-Chris Higgins
-Michael Rozsival


Prospects?

-Evgeni Grachev
-Artem Anisimov
-Ryan McDonaugh
-Bobby Sanguinetti
-Michael Del Zotto


Rangers have PLENTY of valuable assets if they wanted to gamble away some of them. Do you homework before throwing around dumb statements that ultimately prove you don't know squat about your rivals depth.

The fact that numerous Devils, and Islanders fans on this very forum were capable of putting their hate aside, and actually praised the moves, and the group of players the Rangers have been collecting, shows the obvious.

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07-20-2009, 01:51 PM
  #58
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Artem Anisimov. When in doubt, develop your own.

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07-20-2009, 01:51 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaters not lazt View Post
Savard for Zherdev, DelZoto and a 1st
LOL.

Zherdev is an RFA who's commanding $4-4.5 million per year. He'll probably accept one year contract and leave. Del Zotto is not a top notch prospect, in my opinion. 2010 draft isn't quite very good...

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07-20-2009, 01:52 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by BPD View Post
The average Scott Gomez possession results in a rather intelligent rush up the ice, culminating in a turnover or a wrister into the chest.
A wrister from a bad angle, no less.

I wonder how carey price is going to feel when the amount of opposing odd-man-rushes he sees triples from last season.

I still can't believe Sather pulled that trade off.

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07-20-2009, 01:52 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Great value? Are you serious?

Put your Jersey love aside like many other competent posters here are capable of when discussing the value of their rivals chips.

-Lundqvist. Almost as valuable as an Ovechkin, or Crosby.
-Marc Staal.
-Marian Gaborik.
-Dan Girardi
-Brandon Dubinsky
-Ryan Callahan
-Chris Higgins
-Michael Rozsival


Prospects?

-Evgeni Grachev
-Artem Anisimov
-Ryan McDonaugh
-Bobby Sanguinetti
-Michael Del Zotto


Rangers have PLENTY of valuable assets if they wanted to gamble away some of them. Do you homework before throwing around dumb statements that ultimately prove you don't know squat about your rivals depth.

The fact that numerous Devils, and Islanders fans on this very forum were capable of putting their hate aside, and actually praised the moves, and the group of players the Rangers have been collecting, shows the obvious.
Most teams have these kind of assets that you just mentioned.

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Old
07-20-2009, 01:52 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
Artem Anisimov. When in doubt, develop your own.
He could have the talent to be a 70 point scorer or so...which is fine if you have good wingers. I'd love for it to work out that way, but he's going to need at least one season...at *least*, before we can begin to tell if he has that ability in the NHL

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07-20-2009, 01:53 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by #11_THEBEST! View Post
LOL.

Zherdev is an RFA who's commanding $4-4.5 million per year. He'll probably accept one year contract and leave. Del Zotto is not a top notch prospect, in my opinion. 2010 draft isn't quite very good...
I'd be happy to take more... From a Bruins fan I'd take that, but if the Rangers want to keep on adding, far be it from me to stop them.

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07-20-2009, 01:54 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
Artem Anisimov. When in doubt, develop your own.
Yeah. MG10 is going to be here for 5 years. Anisimov should be at least a Gomez-level center by the end of next, and having a wingman like Gabs could only help. Either that, or Anisimov will be sidelined for half of the next two seasons with freak groin injuries.

I'm a fan of building from within to play the role. AA or Dubi should do just fine.

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07-20-2009, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by #11_THEBEST! View Post
Most teams have these kind of assets that you just mentioned.
Where did I say they didn't ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????

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07-20-2009, 01:55 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by strungout View Post
This. Nylander is obviously the perfect center for the NYR.

Yeah.... I wish.

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07-20-2009, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by #11_THEBEST! View Post
Most teams have these kind of assets that you just mentioned.
The Rangers, in theory, could trade an entire squad of defensive pairings in prospect value alone. Very few teams can claim to have the kind of depth we do in our system.

I don't doubt that many teams have a few guys like that. The question is whether or not they could afford to trade top prospects. We can. We can safely swap 2 defense prospects with no fear for a good-great player.

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07-20-2009, 01:56 PM
  #68
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Most teams have these kind of assets that you just mentioned.
And, how many of those teams made the playoffs last season?

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07-20-2009, 02:02 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
If this was 3-4 years ago I'd say yes



Yeah god forbid someone has to play with Jagr, what a talentless bum that guy is. No wonder Gomez couldn't work with him.

Fact is that Gomez just can't really mesh with anyone who comes along, even if they are talented players. He needs players of a certain sort. Perhaps you can blame the Rangers for not deducing what kind of player Gomez needs exactly, and then providing him with that player right away, but they did try to get some skilled players and have him play with them, it just didn't work out great.

To be honest, if he was paired with Gaborik we'd probably see a lot of Gomez lugging the puck through the neutral zone while Gaborik has to wait at the blueline. Then Gomez streaks into the zone, while Gaborik is flatfooted, Gomez takes one look and sees he's surrounded by 4 opponents so he throws a weak wrist shot on net. Repeat ad nauseum, except twice per season he gets lucky and a shot goes in.

He's also not consistently good at holding onto the puck and making a play off the cycle.

He'll probably be fine with the Habs, he's not totally untalented and can't do anything right or something, but he also creates enough of his own problems that I wouldn't blame all of his shortcomings in the past two years on the Rangers.
I always hated Gomez and thought he was an overrated 2nd line center... I still haven't changed my mind, even if he's a hab. I feel his ppg year was an aberration and got a ludicrous contract that was only surpass by the stupidity of Gainey taking on his contract AND giving out good assets for it.

Yet, the way you talk about the guy feels he's at best a 3rd liner... That's difficult to understand, he did finish first on your team in scoring... how did he manage that if he supposely sucked on the PP, couldn't play with scorers, couldn't make a pass to save his life and managed 1 or 2 good shots all year long on the opposing goalies?

I mean, even if I don't like him and I'll wait after the season has started before getting too exited about him, I still feel he's as good a center as Koivu, meaning good skills, good leader, good enough for 70 pts a year, but not consistent and good enough to be a no1 center.

Am I wrong or you're just pissed at the guy for not bringing the cup in NY?

Basically, how did he manage to be your no1 scorer... he must be legit in at least one thing?

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07-20-2009, 02:02 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by puckhead94 View Post
So, you wouldn't trade Scott Gomez for Marian Gaborik, Chris Higgins, and Ryan McDonagh?
Is that what I said?

I just said that they traded one need, for another...how can anyone say that's not the case?

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07-20-2009, 02:03 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
He could have the talent to be a 70 point scorer or so...which is fine if you have good wingers. I'd love for it to work out that way, but he's going to need at least one season...at *least*, before we can begin to tell if he has that ability in the NHL
Most people say this exact thing. But how does anyone know if this is true? The only way you find out is to try it. Why not let Anisimov try it for the first 10-20 games of the season IF he has a good camp, otherwise let Dubinsky try it. If both of those fail THEN go look for a center.

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07-20-2009, 02:05 PM
  #72
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This. Nylander is obviously the perfect center for the NYR.

Yeah.... I wish.
If he had the wheels to play with Gabby, and wasn't 60 years old, he'd be a great candidate.

He's a bonafide playmaking center.

Those silly remarks criticizing the Rangers brass for trading Gomez, simply don't understand the difference between a playmaker, and a puck-carrier.

Sadly though, a big reason why guys like Drury, Briere, and Gomez got ridiculous contracts shows how valuable GM's around the league hold that position.

Based on the return Gomez got, I think the Rangers better be willing to give up a lot more than they might expect for a legitimate playmaking center. I'm talking about Staal, 1st rounders, +.

Rangers are better off going into the season with what they have, like someone already noted. See how things play out, then if there's a serious need with a potential opportunity that can remedy, or fill that hole, then strike.

I'm hoping that's a gamble the Rangers won't have to make, but that could be wishful thinking.

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07-20-2009, 02:06 PM
  #73
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If you ask me, defense is more of an issue right now than center. the bottom two spots are still up for grabs. Considering how shaky Redden, Rosie and at times Girardi were last season, I'm not too thrilled that we might add two rookies to that group. Mara, Staal and Morris were all very sold defensively, and two of them are gone.

We'll see.

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07-20-2009, 02:07 PM
  #74
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Gomez but his contract is pretty bad...

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07-20-2009, 02:11 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus View Post
If you ask me, defense is more of an issue right now than center. the bottom two spots are still up for grabs. Considering how shaky Redden, Rosie and at times Girardi were last season, I'm not too thrilled that we might add two rookies to that group. Mara, Staal and Morris were all very sold defensively, and two of them are gone.

We'll see.
As bad as his contract is, Redden was the best D on the Rangers under Torts

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