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Rangers need a No.1 Playmaking Center. Start spitting out names!

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Old
07-20-2009, 02:11 PM
  #76
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The Rangers HAD the exact type of player the OP is describing in Scott Gomez...but they failed to surround him with the type of talent to maximise his effectiveness.

People want to knock Gainey for making this trade with the Rangers, but the Habs had a need at center and whether or not people think Gomez is worth his contract, he does fill that need for the Habs.

When Gomez was still a Ranger, their greatest need was scoring wingers...well they've now acquired 2 scoring wingers in Chris Higgins & Marian Gaborik, but they've created another hole (playmaking center) in doing so.

And people said the Habs acquiring Gomez was a lateral move...if anyone made a lateral move, it was the Rangers
Acquiring a scoring winger, top defensive prospect and shedding 5.25 million in salary is a lateral move? We needed to upgrade two wingers. That capspace we off loaded to Montreal got us a true sniper in Gaborik.

I understand your trying to justify this trade from your teams perspective to make yourself feel better that Gainey gave up all that for Gomez and his ridiculous contract but come on now...

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07-20-2009, 02:12 PM
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Sign Peter Forsberg. He fits all the credentials and wouldn't cost you any assets.

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07-20-2009, 02:14 PM
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#4 from Tampa Bay.

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07-20-2009, 02:14 PM
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Briere for Lundqvist.

Or translated into Eklund...

I am hearing that Briere could be dealt for Lundqvist STRAIGHT UP!!!!!!!!!!!

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07-20-2009, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Reverse Flying V View Post
After a long evaluation, I have come to the conclusion that the person best suited to fit this role is Wade Belak.

Belak is good for 30 goals, 40 assists, and 100 points a year.
Not tough enough, too much of a girl.

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07-20-2009, 02:18 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by The Great Dubinsky View Post
Acquiring a scoring winger, top defensive prospect and shedding 5.25 million in salary is a lateral move? We needed to upgrade two wingers. That capspace we off loaded to Montreal got us a true sniper in Gaborik.

I understand your trying to justify this trade from your teams perspective to make yourself feel better that Gainey gave up all that for Gomez and his ridiculous contract but come on now...
I wouldn't bet too much on Higgins being a scoring winger... hope instead that they convert him into a defensive specialist.

I really think he could become a selke candidate... he just can't finish to save his life... the year he scored 25 goals, I think he missed as many open net scoring chances.

Higgins is at his best when the spotlight is far away from him. I mean great on the 3rd line, useless on the first.

...as for McDonagh... **** Gainey.

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07-20-2009, 02:18 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by The Great Dubinsky View Post
Acquiring a scoring winger, top defensive prospect and shedding 5.25 million in salary is a lateral move? We needed to upgrade two wingers, did so and acquired a true sniper in Gaborik.

I understand your trying to justify this trade from your teams perspective to make yourself feel better that Gainey gave up all that for Gomez and his ridiculous contract but come on now...
Hardly...i was a fan of the move the second it happened. I don't drink the HF Kool-Aid.

I'm not going to cry over losing one of our 2nd/3rd line wingers, we've got an abundance of those. Ryan McDonagh is a nice prospect, but I wasn't as high on him as most Habs fans were...furthermore, he wasn't ready to help the Habs for another 2-3 years at the best, so...

Again...the reason I say it's a lateral move is because since the Rangers made all those big signings 2 summers ago, they've been looking to add scoring wingers to their lineup. Well they did that this offseason by adding Gaborik, Higgins and Lisin but they did this by creating another hole in their lineup by trading their best center...

You may not think highly of Gomez and that's fine, but that doesn't change the fact that he was your leading scorer last year and finished 2nd the year before and led your team in assists both years. Someone is going to have to step into the role of 'playmaker'...

Maybe it'll be Dubinsky or Drury, maybe Anisimov...hell, maybe Blair Betts has some hidden talents to speak of (though i'm not even sure he's still under contract) but the fact remains is that the Rangers are going to have to replace Scott Gomez and if the answers don't come from within, they're going to come from without, which means you'll have to further weaken your team to get that player.

From a habs standpoint...they needed an upgrade at center, and that's what they got without creating another hole elsewhere...

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07-20-2009, 02:21 PM
  #83
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Yet, the way you talk about the guy feels he's at best a 3rd liner... That's difficult to understand, he did finish first on your team in scoring... how did he manage that if he supposely sucked on the PP, couldn't play with scorers, couldn't make a pass to save his life and managed 1 or 2 good shots all year long on the opposing goalies?
I'm highlighting his bad points. He tends to go on streaks of good play where he actually creates well with his speed and makes some nice passes. And he can still put up some points when he's not playing great and just "ok". Like I said, he's not a terrible player, he just doesn't seem to play like you think he should at times, and in the long run that keeps him from being a real good 1st line center, or from being able to play with most other players.

Sometimes he really just looks like he has no idea what he wants to do with the puck, doesn't see open guys, and would rather take a shot on net despite his shooting percentage being obscenely low.

It's just that people talking him up like "the Rangers didn't surround him with enough talent to take advantage of his skills!" is not entirely correct...he creates enough of his own problems regardless of who he's playing with.

He's just a mixed bag, he'll do some great things and then go through some bad slumps and you can't really tell when those things are going to happen.

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07-20-2009, 02:25 PM
  #84
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I'm highlighting his bad points. He tends to go on streaks of good play where he actually creates well with his speed and makes some nice passes. And he can still put up some points when he's not playing great and just "ok". Like I said, he's not a terrible player, he just doesn't seem to play like you think he should at times, and in the long run that keeps him from being a real good 1st line center, or from being able to play with most other players.

Sometimes he really just looks like he has no idea what he wants to do with the puck, doesn't see open guys, and would rather take a shot on net despite his shooting percentage being obscenely low.

It's just that people talking him up like "the Rangers didn't surround him with enough talent to take advantage of his skills!" is not entirely correct...he creates enough of his own problems regardless of who he's playing with.
He's just a mixed bag, he'll do some great things and then go through some bad slumps and you can't really tell when those things are going to happen.
Well i'm sure his subpar play in New York can be blamed on a number of factors and I wasn't trying to imply that the Rangers not surrounding him properly was the sole reason, obviously it wasn't, but you can't also act like it's not a factor.

I bet if most Rangers fans were being honest, given the new acquisitions of Gaborik, Higgins and Lisin...would they not feel more comfortable with their team if they still had Gomez and somehow traded away Chris Drury instead? Let's be honest now...

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07-20-2009, 02:27 PM
  #85
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If #1 center is such a problem the get Heatley and make Drury your #1. Dubinsky can handle #2.

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07-20-2009, 02:28 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Well i'm sure his subpar play in New York can be blamed on a number of factors and I wasn't trying to imply that the Rangers not surrounding him properly was the sole reason, obviously it wasn't, but you can't also act like it's not a factor.

I bet if most Rangers fans were being honest, given the new acquisitions of Gaborik, Higgins and Lisin...would they not feel more comfortable with their team if they still had Gomez and somehow traded away Chris Drury instead? Let's be honest now...
If I'm a Rangers fan, I take Drury over Gomez every day of the week. They're both glorified second line centers, but Drury's game is far better for a team that wants a cup and needs one of them to be a key playoff component than Gomez's.

Although both of them are better off as secondary players.

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07-20-2009, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
The Rangers HAD the exact type of player the OP is describing in Scott Gomez...but they failed to surround him with the type of talent to maximise his effectiveness.

People want to knock Gainey for making this trade with the Rangers, but the Habs had a need at center and whether or not people think Gomez is worth his contract, he does fill that need for the Habs.

When Gomez was still a Ranger, their greatest need was scoring wingers...well they've now acquired 2 scoring wingers in Chris Higgins & Marian Gaborik, but they've created another hole (playmaking center) in doing so.

And people said the Habs acquiring Gomez was a lateral move...if anyone made a lateral move, it was the Rangers
Oh boy talk about clueless.

Here is habs fans reaction:

June 30: Oh noo ****ing Gainey is so dumb Gomez sucks and he traded McDonagh!!!!
July 1st After Cammy signing: It's because of GOMEZ!!!
July 1st after Gionta signing: YES YES GOMEZ is awesome! Higgins parties too much and McDonagh hasn't developed correctly!
July 20th: Gomez is an elite center, he was an amazing one in NJ because they had wingers not because he was playing with HHOF'ers and was on 2nd line!

Here I'll predict the future:

November: Give Gomez time he isn't that bad
January: They'll be alright Gomez will bounce back and score 75+
March: Gainey sucks Gomez = bust, Gionta = bust! Ahhhhhh

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07-20-2009, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
Oh boy talk about clueless.

Here is habs fans reaction:

June 30: Oh noo ****ing Gainey is so dumb Gomez sucks and he traded McDonagh!!!!
July 1st After Cammy signing: It's because of GOMEZ!!!
July 1st after Gionta signing: YES YES GOMEZ is awesome! Higgins parties too much and McDonagh hasn't developed correctly!
July 20th: Gomez is an elite center, he was an amazing one in NJ because they had wingers not because he was playing with HHOF'ers and was on 2nd line!

Here I'll predict the future:

November: Give Gomez time he isn't that bad
January: They'll be alright Gomez will bounce back and score 75+
March: Gainey sucks Gomez = bust, Gionta = bust! Ahhhhhh
Why don't you look up my reaction instead...then come back and post here.

Like I said earlier, I can think for myself...I don't drink the HF Kool-Aid

I was one of the few defending this move from the get-go...

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07-20-2009, 02:33 PM
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Well i'm sure his subpar play in New York can be blamed on a number of factors and I wasn't trying to imply that the Rangers not surrounding him properly was the sole reason, obviously it wasn't, but you can't also act like it's not a factor.

I bet if most Rangers fans were being honest, given the new acquisitions of Gaborik, Higgins and Lisin...would they not feel more comfortable with their team if they still had Gomez and somehow traded away Chris Drury instead? Let's be honest now...
from a purely lineup point of view, yeah Gomez would be better over Drury. For other reasons, maybe not. Gomez's contract is longer and worse, and while I'm not sure I believe it, he was at least implicated in leading the team to basically give up on Renney.

Given the choice...I don't know, the fact that Drury's contract is up sooner is a big plus. And seeing Gomez struggle to play well for long with most wingers was tough. And again, yes, he had a fair amount of talented wingers to play with and never really settled in with them. I'm not sure he even ends up centering Gaborik if he was still here. I'd like to think so, but like I said, two years of him bouncing around the lineup while being paired with skilled wingers doesn't instill a lot of hope in me that it would magically work out.

I don't think the fact that Gomez is fast and Gaborik is fast really amounts to anything...Gomez mainly uses his speed to lug the puck entirely by himself, and it's hard even for fast skaters to work with that sometimes because he tends to take the puck from so deep in the zone while everyone is already up in the neutral zone, they have to wait for him so by the time he's skating into the offensive zone, his wingers are just barely getting going and he doesn't have time to make a play

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07-20-2009, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Well i'm sure his subpar play in New York can be blamed on a number of factors and I wasn't trying to imply that the Rangers not surrounding him properly was the sole reason, obviously it wasn't, but you can't also act like it's not a factor.

I bet if most Rangers fans were being honest, given the new acquisitions of Gaborik, Higgins and Lisin...would they not feel more comfortable with their team if they still had Gomez and somehow traded away Chris Drury instead? Let's be honest now...
Drury > Gomez. Gomez is a child. He is a terrible leader and a coach killer. He hated Tom Renney and I believe he turned the lockerroom on him. He can't take an interview seriously and he has a huge ego. He won't care mid-way through the year if the Habs are in the 9-15 rank. Drury is a great leader. They are both 2nd liners but Drury has far better intangibles such as PK'ing, leadership, and goalscoring. Gomez is faster, but he seems to be to fast for his own good.

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07-20-2009, 02:34 PM
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If I'm a Rangers fan, I take Drury over Gomez every day of the week. They're both glorified second line centers, but Drury's game is far better for a team that wants a cup and needs one of them to be a key playoff component than Gomez's.

Although both of them are better off as secondary players.
That's fine...but if you asked this very question to Rangers fans. If they were being truthfully honest, i'm sure the result would be pretty close and I even suspect in Gomez' favour. But there's not use of asking that now as Drury is a Ranger and Gomez is a Hab

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07-20-2009, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
Oh boy talk about clueless.

Here is habs fans reaction:

June 30: Oh noo ****ing Gainey is so dumb Gomez sucks and he traded McDonagh!!!!
July 1st After Cammy signing: It's because of GOMEZ!!!
July 1st after Gionta signing: YES YES GOMEZ is awesome! Higgins parties too much and McDonagh hasn't developed correctly!
July 20th: Gomez is an elite center, he was an amazing one in NJ because they had wingers not because he was playing with HHOF'ers and was on 2nd line!

Here I'll predict the future:

November: Give Gomez time he isn't that bad
January: They'll be alright Gomez will bounce back and score 75+
March: Gainey sucks Gomez = bust, Gionta = bust! Ahhhhhh
Way to go to generalize a fan base... I'm a hab supporter and I still hate that trade... how do you explain that me and a **** load of other fans still think it was a dumb trade?

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07-20-2009, 02:38 PM
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Drury > Gomez. Gomez is a child. He is a terrible leader and a coach killer. He hated Tom Renney and I believe he turned the lockerroom on him. He can't take an interview seriously and he has a huge ego. He won't care mid-way through the year if the Habs are in the 9-15 rank. Drury is a great leader. They are both 2nd liners but Drury has far better intangibles such as PK'ing, leadership, and goalscoring. Gomez is faster, but he seems to be to fast for his own good.
That's fair...but I still think if Drury was a Hab today, and Gomez still a Ranger. You'd find negatives things to say about Drury instead.

But hey, i'll give you guys benefit of the doubt...you've seen Gomez in New York alot more than I did the last two years. Guess we'll see how it plays out.

But I still continue to think that the storyline for the Rangers this year will be their search to find a center for Gaborik...and IF, just IF, Gomez works out in Montreal, even a bit, Rangers fans will begin to ask themselves if they got 'rid' of the right guy

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07-20-2009, 02:38 PM
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Why don't you look up my reaction instead...then come back and post here.

Like I said earlier, I can think for myself...I don't drink the HF Kool-Aid

I was one of the few defending this move from the get-go...
Wasn't directed to just you. Just the majority of HF. Trust me I was excited when the Rangers signed him. I thought he would be awesome with Jagr. Turns out the only winger in his NYR tenure he clicked with was Avery.

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07-20-2009, 02:39 PM
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That's fine...but if you asked this very question to Rangers fans. If they were being truthfully honest, i'm sure the result would be pretty close and I even suspect in Gomez' favour. But there's not use of asking that now as Drury is a Ranger and Gomez is a Hab
Yeah it's hard to say. I like a lot of what Drury brings that Gomez doesn't, but Gomez obviously does have the higher offensive upside and covers that 1st line center spot a lot better, in theory. In practice, who knows.

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07-20-2009, 02:39 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
Drury > Gomez. Gomez is a child. He is a terrible leader and a coach killer. He hated Tom Renney and I believe he turned the lockerroom on him. He can't take an interview seriously and he has a huge ego. He won't care mid-way through the year if the Habs are in the 9-15 rank. Drury is a great leader. They are both 2nd liners but Drury has far better intangibles such as PK'ing, leadership, and goalscoring. Gomez is faster, but he seems to be to fast for his own good.
Ok, now I know I won't take seriously your criticism of the guy since you hatred of him blinds you from a good critical appreciation (or dislike) of his play...

Just like I wouldn't suggest you to base your appreciation of Higgins on the critics of a certain well known poster on the habs board because she can't stomach him...

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07-20-2009, 02:40 PM
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from a purely lineup point of view, yeah Gomez would be better over Drury. For other reasons, maybe not. Gomez's contract is longer and worse, and while I'm not sure I believe it, he was at least implicated in leading the team to basically give up on Renney.

Given the choice...I don't know, the fact that Drury's contract is up sooner is a big plus. And seeing Gomez struggle to play well for long with most wingers was tough. And again, yes, he had a fair amount of talented wingers to play with and never really settled in with them. I'm not sure he even ends up centering Gaborik if he was still here. I'd like to think so, but like I said, two years of him bouncing around the lineup while being paired with skilled wingers doesn't instill a lot of hope in me that it would magically work out.

I don't think the fact that Gomez is fast and Gaborik is fast really amounts to anything...Gomez mainly uses his speed to lug the puck entirely by himself, and it's hard even for fast skaters to work with that sometimes because he tends to take the puck from so deep in the zone while everyone is already up in the neutral zone, they have to wait for him so by the time he's skating into the offensive zone, his wingers are just barely getting going and he doesn't have time to make a play
That's a fair assesment...I assume you're a Rangers fan so you would know more than I do.

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07-20-2009, 02:40 PM
  #98
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That's fine...but if you asked this very question to Rangers fans. If they were being truthfully honest, i'm sure the result would be pretty close and I even suspect in Gomez' favour. But there's not use of asking that now as Drury is a Ranger and Gomez is a Hab
I watched Scott Gomez play basically every game of his career for seven seasons. I then watched him play 6-12 games for two seasons as a team in my team's division. He's not a first liner, and with the exception of exactly one seasons - 2005-2006 - he's never performed like one. He's also not particularly clutch and was a tertiary component in 2000 and 2001 and a secondary component in 2003 despite playing with Elias. He's not a high-grade playoff performer.

Drury is better off in a secondary role as well, but the guy is clutch. He shows up when it counts like clockwork. He's far better defensively, and he's not nearly as prone to costly turnovers because of the kind of game he plays. If I have to choose one, I always choose Drury. That's before you add in contracts.

During the regular season, Gomez might fit in with the Rangers lineup better. He probably puts up higher point totals. But when it counts? Give me Drury.

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07-20-2009, 02:41 PM
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That's fair...but I still think if Drury was a Hab today, and Gomez still a Ranger. You'd find negatives things to say about Drury instead.

But hey, i'll give you guys benefit of the doubt...you've seen Gomez in New York alot more than I did the last two years. Guess we'll see how it plays out.

But I still continue to think that the storyline for the Rangers this year will be their search to find a center for Gaborik...and IF, just IF, Gomez works out in Montreal, even a bit, Rangers fans will begin to ask themselves if they got 'rid' of the right guy
Actually no. I would say the Habs have the better player. I like Drury much better. I liked him better in NY as well. Drury works good with young players. Gomez works well with1 player, and he's never even gotten more than 18 goals in a year.

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07-20-2009, 02:44 PM
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Centre

I always thought that Bouchard was a perfect fit. But what would the Wild want and would the Rangers be willing.

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