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Who is this Ranger Goalie during the 93 Season?

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Old
07-22-2009, 04:50 PM
  #26
patnyrnyg
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Originally Posted by Jxmarts View Post
You can't complain about Weight, Amonte, Marchant, but you should complain about Norstrom. The first 3 were traded for players who helped win the Cup. Many of the moves made during the Cup year were at Mike Keenan's insistence. But Norstrom was traded afterwards along with Ray Ferraro and Ian Laperriere (also Nathan Lafayette) for an over the hill gang, Jari Kurri, Marty McSorley & Shane Churla. Smith thought he could slot Kurri in at center for Ferraro who had been doing a solid job as the Rangers' second line center. But Kurri wasn't not a center and was done at that point in his career. The trade derailed the Rangers' season & it was just one of many bad trades Smith made following the Cup year.
Definitely agree on the Norstrom/Laperriere/Ferraro trade. The Rangers had two quality scoring lines. Mess with Verbeek and Graves. I believe Mess scored 47 goals that year and Verbeek about 45. The Ferraro with Puke Robetelli (who was good that year) and Kovalev. The 96 team was good, in first place most of the way then Philly caught them in late February/early March. That year didn't hurt nearly as much as 92, but another year they could have won it all.

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07-22-2009, 05:44 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Definitely agree on the Norstrom/Laperriere/Ferraro trade. The Rangers had two quality scoring lines. Mess with Verbeek and Graves. I believe Mess scored 47 goals that year and Verbeek about 45. The Ferraro with Puke Robetelli (who was good that year) and Kovalev. The 96 team was good, in first place most of the way then Philly caught them in late February/early March. That year didn't hurt nearly as much as 92, but another year they could have won it all.
i forgot what a monster Messier was in '96. After the contract ugliness/lockout/cup hangover year that was '95, to put up 47-52-99 as a 35 year old is sick.

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07-22-2009, 08:52 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
The sound of 1940 was very loud in the early 1990s, the Rangers came within an overtime goal of not making it to the finals in 1994. Can't complain about any of the trades up to then. Trading Norstrom, on the other hand, was a disaster (Laperriere too).
Complain? Never.

Wonder? Always.

I've never quite been able to shake the thought we overpaid and that we would've won more over the long run.

All hypothetical and of course the one cup is worth a million "thoughts".

But i've always felt that way.

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07-22-2009, 08:55 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Definitely agree on the Norstrom/Laperriere/Ferraro trade. The Rangers had two quality scoring lines. Mess with Verbeek and Graves. I believe Mess scored 47 goals that year and Verbeek about 45. The Ferraro with Puke Robetelli (who was good that year) and Kovalev. The 96 team was good, in first place most of the way then Philly caught them in late February/early March. That year didn't hurt nearly as much as 92, but another year they could have won it all.
That was the year they could've had Shanahan. Some reports had the deal including Graves, but most sources i've asked said he wasn't part of the final deal (Kovalev, Sundstrom and a pick).

I always though that would've been the deal that put them over the top for a cup win in both 96 and 97.

Instead, Smith overvalues his young players (there is a lesson there) and Shanny goes to Detroit. And we all know how that turned out.

It's amazing to see how many times we almost had a prime Shanahan and to think about how different things might have been.

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07-22-2009, 10:47 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
That was the year they could've had Shanahan. Some reports had the deal including Graves, but most sources i've asked said he wasn't part of the final deal (Kovalev, Sundstrom and a pick).

I always though that would've been the deal that put them over the top for a cup win in both 96 and 97.

Instead, Smith overvalues his young players (there is a lesson there) and Shanny goes to Detroit. And we all know how that turned out.

It's amazing to see how many times we almost had a prime Shanahan and to think about how different things might have been.
Can you imagine a Shanahan-Gretzky-Verbeek first line and Graves and Messier on the second line (assuming they keep Verbeek) in '97. That's a hell of a top 5.


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07-22-2009, 11:03 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
That was the year they could've had Shanahan. Some reports had the deal including Graves, but most sources i've asked said he wasn't part of the final deal (Kovalev, Sundstrom and a pick).

I always though that would've been the deal that put them over the top for a cup win in both 96 and 97.

Instead, Smith overvalues his young players (there is a lesson there) and Shanny goes to Detroit. And we all know how that turned out.

It's amazing to see how many times we almost had a prime Shanahan and to think about how different things might have been.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I swear that at one point, Rutherford asked for Cloutier, Brown, Dube and a #1 pick for Shanahan, and the Rangers countered with Kovalev, Karpovtsev and a #1, which Rutherford turned down. I think the Graves rumors were the last request from Rutherford, before he dealt Shanahan to Detroit.

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07-22-2009, 11:07 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Definitely agree on the Norstrom/Laperriere/Ferraro trade. The Rangers had two quality scoring lines. Mess with Verbeek and Graves. I believe Mess scored 47 goals that year and Verbeek about 45. The Ferraro with Puke Robetelli (who was good that year) and Kovalev. The 96 team was good, in first place most of the way then Philly caught them in late February/early March. That year didn't hurt nearly as much as 92, but another year they could have won it all.
It all turned on a goal off Ulf's face...the Rangers blew out the Pens in Game Two, and then I believe Lemieux flipped a pass that was headed for Sandstrom, but Ulf was right there with him, and the puck hit Ulf in the face, and then fell behind Richter...that seemed to just take the Rangers off guard, and the Pens just went on from there.

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07-23-2009, 01:06 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I swear that at one point, Rutherford asked for Cloutier, Brown, Dube and a #1 pick for Shanahan, and the Rangers countered with Kovalev, Karpovtsev and a #1, which Rutherford turned down. I think the Graves rumors were the last request from Rutherford, before he dealt Shanahan to Detroit.
It's taken many forms over the years, but the Cloutier rumor never made sense considering they had just drafted Giguere in the first round of the 95 draft (from the Verbeek deal).

I believe Cloutier was part of the Verbeek deal, but the Rangers subbed a first round pick for him. That pick became Giguere. Talk about hindsight.

As for the Shanahan deal. I believe St. Louis initially asked for Kovalev and another component. Smith balked. Shanahan went to Hartford.

Smith offered a package based around Kovalev and Dube.

Rutherford countered with Kovalev, Sundstrom and first.

Smith balked and I believe tried inserting other pieces.

I think Smith was the real hold up on the deal. Bottom line was that the deal was his for the taking if he wanted it.

So many deals back then seemed to come back to Kovalev.

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07-23-2009, 05:52 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
It's taken many forms over the years, but the Cloutier rumor never made sense considering they had just drafted Giguere in the first round of the 95 draft (from the Verbeek deal).

I believe Cloutier was part of the Verbeek deal, but the Rangers subbed a first round pick for him. That pick became Giguere. Talk about hindsight.

As for the Shanahan deal. I believe St. Louis initially asked for Kovalev and another component. Smith balked. Shanahan went to Hartford.

Smith offered a package based around Kovalev and Dube.

Rutherford countered with Kovalev, Sundstrom and first.

Smith balked and I believe tried inserting other pieces.

I think Smith was the real hold up on the deal. Bottom line was that the deal was his for the taking if he wanted it.

So many deals back then seemed to come back to Kovalev.
Actually, I think Smith had to get approval from the ownership for the deal. Keenan got impatient and made the deal for Pronger. The deal that was agreed to, (so I've read) was Kovalev and Matteau for Shanahan. The deal was done, pending ITT/Cablevision approval...Keenan couldn't wait.

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07-23-2009, 02:03 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
Actually, I think Smith had to get approval from the ownership for the deal. Keenan got impatient and made the deal for Pronger. The deal that was agreed to, (so I've read) was Kovalev and Matteau for Shanahan. The deal was done, pending ITT/Cablevision approval...Keenan couldn't wait.
You know, evaluating Kovalev's career is going to be very tricky when all is said and done.

He's had 3, 3 1/2 really good seasons. But for the most part, he's a 25-30 goal, 65 point player. All the talent in the world, but so many so/so results. Yet you look at the career numbers and they aren't horrible.

In that regard he's a bust when you compare him to his abilities, but has had a solid NHL career by most standards.

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07-23-2009, 03:52 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
Wasn't Hirsch supposed to be a superstar?
Yeah I remember when it was he and Potvin being talked about as the top goalies in the AHL and Potvin had been brought up to Toronto, leaving Hirsch as the #1 guy in the A. Too bad he never turned into much.

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07-23-2009, 11:30 PM
  #37
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Oh Corey Hirsch...

My Cousins Girfriend back in that era was related to the trainer for the Binghamton Rangers somehow but anyways, when she heard that I was a huge Rangers fan, she got her relative to get me a autographed Corey Hirsch Binghamton Rangers puck addressed to me and everything. For a 7 year old, it was really cool. Thanks to his stellar career, it is only cool today because it is a Binghamton Rangers puck, but not bad for a kid's first autograph.

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07-23-2009, 11:37 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by FrolundasFinest View Post
Oh Corey Hirsch...

My Cousins Girfriend back in that era was related to the trainer for the Binghamton Rangers somehow but anyways, when she heard that I was a huge Rangers fan, she got her relative to get me a autographed Corey Hirsch Binghamton Rangers puck addressed to me and everything. For a 7 year old, it was really cool. Thanks to his stellar career, it is only cool today because it is a Binghamton Rangers puck, but not bad for a kid's first autograph.
kinda like that alexander daigle/philadelphia flyers signed puck i got for about six bucks

btw, thanks to edge and jas for posting some interesting stuff that i (and surely many others) are too young to remember

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07-25-2009, 05:39 AM
  #39
Edge
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Originally Posted by allstar3970 View Post
i forgot what a monster Messier was in '96. After the contract ugliness/lockout/cup hangover year that was '95, to put up 47-52-99 as a 35 year old is sick.
And keep in mind that both he and Verbeek got hurt down the stretch. If they stayed healthy, they both had a shot at the goal record and Messier was going to easily top 100 points again.

Interestingly enough, that was Verbeek's last hurrah as a top level scorer and close to the end for Messier's ability to literally carry a team.

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07-25-2009, 08:25 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post

Smith offered a package based around Kovalev and Dube.

Rutherford countered with Kovalev, Sundstrom and first.

Smith balked and I believe tried inserting other pieces.

I think Smith was the real hold up on the deal. Bottom line was that the deal was his for the taking if he wanted it.

So many deals back then seemed to come back to Kovalev.
I have also heard there was a done deal with Hartford which included Kovalev, and it was Gretzky and Mess who talked Smith out of it. Mess really liked Kovalev and like all of us thought he had the potential to be among the elites. Gretzky on the other hand, was rumored to not think highly of Shanahan. Something happened between them at the 91 Canada Cup. Can't remember where I had seen it, might have been a book, might have been articles.

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07-25-2009, 08:29 AM
  #41
patnyrnyg
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
It all turned on a goal off Ulf's face...the Rangers blew out the Pens in Game Two, and then I believe Lemieux flipped a pass that was headed for Sandstrom, but Ulf was right there with him, and the puck hit Ulf in the face, and then fell behind Richter...that seemed to just take the Rangers off guard, and the Pens just went on from there.
There was also that goal Lemieux scored where he was in the corner, passed the puck along the goal line, it hit Richter's skate and wound up in the net. Then in game 4, Rangers were down 3-2, it was 3-0 and they came back to make it a game. I believe Beukeboom had a terrible giveaway on a breakout, and someone from the Penguins got the puck all alone in the slot, scored and put the game and series away. Had they won that series, no doubt in my mind they would have beaten Florida. Not sure about Colorado.

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07-25-2009, 09:08 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
I have also heard there was a done deal with Hartford which included Kovalev, and it was Gretzky and Mess who talked Smith out of it. Mess really liked Kovalev and like all of us thought he had the potential to be among the elites. Gretzky on the other hand, was rumored to not think highly of Shanahan. Something happened between them at the 91 Canada Cup. Can't remember where I had seen it, might have been a book, might have been articles.
That's a new one for me, i've never heard that before.

Can't say one way or the other on its accuracy.

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