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Old
07-28-2009, 11:14 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RousselRising View Post
Being a total stats nerd, I ran through the Coyotes 2009-10 roster (with Tanguay ) to see what our G-A-PTS would like if each player performed to his average over his career. I figure older guys may slip a little, younger guys may step up a little, and injury fill ins will balance things out unless we get hit with a bunch of guys going down at the same time, and for prolonged periods.

Nothing scientific, but the numbers seem pretty reasonable to me. Not sure what others think, but these stats put us 15th-17th in league scoring compared with team stats from last season.

Player
Goals
Assists
Tot Pts
Tanguay
24
48
72
Doan
22
31
53
Mueller
19
29
48
Vrbata
20
24
44
Lombardi
16
25
41
Prucha
21
19
40
Upshall
16
21
37
Hanzal
11
26
37
Boedker
12
18
30
Fiddler
12
13
25
Tikhonov
11
11
22
Korpikoski
7
10
17
FORWARDS
191
275
466
Jovanovski
11
29
40
Aucoin
10
22
32
Yandle
6
24
30
Michalek
6
18
24
Vandermeer
5
15
20
Sauer
1
6
7
DEFENSEMEN
39
114
153
TOTALS
230
389
619

IDK, looks pretty attainable to me. Gives me a lot of hope if we do sign Tanguay that we're a legitimate bubble playoff team. Add the improved blueline that should mean better numbers for Bryz, and we close the gap between Goals For and Goals Against.

Fire away! Too optimistic? Not optimistic enough?
Good luck getting Mueller to pot 19 and Prucha 21.

More like 14 for Mueller and 10 for Prucha, but that's just lil' old pessimistic me.

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Old
07-28-2009, 05:33 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RousselRising View Post

Fiddler 12
Really?... 12? He is only capable of 11. I thought the board agreed on this. Did we not?


Last edited by HockeyHillbilly: 07-28-2009 at 05:34 PM. Reason: Deleted out rest of the chart
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Old
07-28-2009, 05:36 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by HockeyHillbilly View Post
Really?... 12? He is only capable of 11. I thought the board agreed on this. Did we not?
Yeah, no way he scores as much as twelve. Then again, no way he scores as little as ten. He goes to eleven. Only eleven.

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07-28-2009, 05:37 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by WJF View Post
Good luck getting Mueller to pot 19 and Prucha 21.

More like 14 for Mueller and 10 for Prucha, but that's just lil' old pessimistic me.
Yeah, but even if you take five off of each, you can add at least ten to Doan's totals. He's getting totally low-balled, there. Especially if Tanguay is on the team. Why wouldn't he put up career numbers? Fifty three points? Try eighty three. He had seventy three last season and seventy eight the season before.

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07-28-2009, 06:46 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Yeah, but even if you take five off of each, you can add at least ten to Doan's totals. He's getting totally low-balled, there. Especially if Tanguay is on the team. Why wouldn't he put up career numbers? Fifty three points? Try eighty three. He had seventy three last season and seventy eight the season before.
Agreed.

Though as we found out the last couple of years, we need secondary scoring more than anything around here. Doan can't do it alone.

I think for this team to make the playoffs, we need 4 20-goal scorers. Perhaps there is no correlation there, but I believe if we have 4 20 goals scorers we will make the playoffs. Kind of like that 03-04 year (i think) where Langkow, Nagy, Doan, and Johnson were all in that area.

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07-28-2009, 07:21 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJF View Post
Agreed.

Though as we found out the last couple of years, we need secondary scoring more than anything around here. Doan can't do it alone.

I think for this team to make the playoffs, we need 4 20-goal scorers. Perhaps there is no correlation there, but I believe if we have 4 20 goals scorers we will make the playoffs. Kind of like that 03-04 year (i think) where Langkow, Nagy, Doan, and Johnson were all in that area.
Agreed. The exciting thing about this year is that we have incredible offensive depth just waiting to break through on their potential. When I look at the Yotes offense at some point in their careers, all but Vern and his 11per every year, will have scored at least 20 goals in a season in the NHL at some point. Even a few in the AHL have that potential, in Porter, Kolarik, Maclean, and Turris. Not sure where he is going to be this year but I can't wait for this guy to develop. Some have already done it in Mueller, Vrbata, Lombardi, Prucha, and Doan. Add Tanguay to that list will be huge, his style compliments this team perfectly.

The Langkow, Johnson, Nagy, and Doan era has taught us that we don't need superstars to make the playoffs. Lets hope a few of our guys have huge years.

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07-29-2009, 11:36 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by PHX FireBirds18 View Post
The Langkow, Johnson, Nagy, and Doan era has taught us that we don't need superstars to make the playoffs. Lets hope a few of our guys have huge years.
1 playoff qualification without Roenick / Tkatchuk hardly qualifies as an 'era'...

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07-29-2009, 11:53 AM
  #58
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Danny briere gave us 32 in that "era"

The only concern I have is, despite being better, I'm not convinced we've got enough to overtake any of the other teams in the west that we will have to to make the playoffs.

The depth has improved a lot, and 3rd year players are more likely to break out than 2nd year guys. We are improved, im just questionable on whether its more than the other teams we will be fighting for 8th-10th with, without things going our way.

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Old
07-29-2009, 12:07 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJF View Post
Agreed.

Though as we found out the last couple of years, we need secondary scoring more than anything around here. Doan can't do it alone.

I think for this team to make the playoffs, we need 4 20-goal scorers. Perhaps there is no correlation there, but I believe if we have 4 20 goals scorers we will make the playoffs. Kind of like that 03-04 year (i think) where Langkow, Nagy, Doan, and Johnson were all in that area.
I think that playoff year was more due to MVP goalie play from Burkie.

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07-29-2009, 03:11 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zz View Post
1 playoff qualification without Roenick / Tkatchuk hardly qualifies as an 'era'...
It seems like one when you're a yotes fan.....

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Old
08-20-2009, 06:18 PM
  #61
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Doan - Hanzal - Mueller
Upshall - Lombardi - Boedker
Prucha - Turris - Vrbata
Winnik - Fiddler - Tikhonov
Korpikoski

Turris will prove he belongs on this team. And for his development, skating him with a couple well rounded players with the potential to get real hot could work.

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08-20-2009, 07:36 PM
  #62
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The elephant in the grass

I think the biggest question on how far we go this year it who is behind the bench. I think we have a very good team this year that has the potential to make it to the playoff and even win a round or two depending on who we play. That is if we are well coached. I donít think it makes much sense to fantasize on what the lineups would be if we have a coach that juggles the lines more Cirque du Soleil. Then again there were a lot of coaches fired and hired last year, so here is to getting a coach that can make the most out of the lines that we have and taking us where we need to goÖ ..to the playoffs.

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08-20-2009, 07:48 PM
  #63
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I was hoping for another vet, and a bigger, younger goon, but if we go with what we've got now...

Upshall-Lombardi-Doan
Mueller-Hanzal-Vrbata
Prucha-Turris-Boedker
Korpikoski-Fiddler-Tikhonov
Downey

Jovanovski-Michalek
Aucoin-Sauer
Yandle-Vandermeer
Lepisto

Bryzgalov
LaBarbera/Montoya

...top ten pick. Maybe top five. Seriously, LA got better and Atlanta got a lot better. Tampa won't have Melrose, and likely won't have all of those injuries. Colorado and the Islanders are going to suck. Hard. Other than that, I can't say I see a team that will be way worse than us. I would guess there will be that totally unexpected team that gets killed with injuries and falls apart, ending with a suprise top five pick. Colorado was really the only suprise team in the bottom five, last season. Ottawa and Dallas were also the only true suprises in the top ten. I would guess that if we go as is, including coaching staff, we'll end up picking third, fourth, fifth, sixth, or seventh overall.

If we overhaul the coaching staff, we pick up at least a few spots. If we add another veteren scorer another spot, or two.

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08-21-2009, 11:46 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
I was hoping for another vet, and a bigger, younger goon, but if we go with what we've got now...

Upshall-Lombardi-Doan
Mueller-Hanzal-Vrbata
Prucha-Turris-Boedker
Korpikoski-Fiddler-Tikhonov
Downey

Jovanovski-Michalek
Aucoin-Sauer
Yandle-Vandermeer
Lepisto

Bryzgalov
LaBarbera/Montoya

...top ten pick. Maybe top five. Seriously, LA got better and Atlanta got a lot better. Tampa won't have Melrose, and likely won't have all of those injuries. Colorado and the Islanders are going to suck. Hard. Other than that, I can't say I see a team that will be way worse than us. I would guess there will be that totally unexpected team that gets killed with injuries and falls apart, ending with a suprise top five pick. Colorado was really the only suprise team in the bottom five, last season. Ottawa and Dallas were also the only true suprises in the top ten. I would guess that if we go as is, including coaching staff, we'll end up picking third, fourth, fifth, sixth, or seventh overall.

If we overhaul the coaching staff, we pick up at least a few spots. If we add another veteren scorer another spot, or two.
In the West:

I don't see us being worse then Edmonton.

We shouldn't be worse than Columbus, unless we get out-coached.

We shouldn't be worse than Minnesota, unless we get out-coached.

Dallas didn't do anything to improve and they're on their way down.

We should be able to compete with Nashville.

LA may be better than us this year, but it's close.

And colorado will suck.

In my estimation, given the amount of young players we have and a few good veterans, with good coaching, we should be similar to st. louis, and look how well they did last year. Do you believe st. louis is THAT much of a better team on paper??? Their rookies/sophmores were drafted below ours, their veterans are not as good as ours, neither is their goaltending.

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08-21-2009, 03:12 PM
  #65
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2008-09 Lines (based on games played)
LW
C
RW
Mueller Jokinen Doan
Winnik Hanzal Tikhonov
Fedoruk Reinprecht Boedker
Carcillo Turris Lisin
D
D
Morris Jovanovski
Michalek Sauer
Yandle Klee



2009-10 Projected Lines
LW
C
RW
Upshall Lombardi Doan
Mueller Hanzal Vrbata
Prucha Turris Boedker
Korpikoski Fiddler Tikhonov
D
D
Michalek Jovanovski
Aucoin Sauer
Yandle Vandermeer



2009-10 Changes

C OUT: Jokinen Reinprecht
C IN: Lombardi Fiddler

LW OUT: Winnik Fedoruk Carcillo
LW IN: Upshall Prucha Korpikoski

RW OUT: Lisin
RW IN: Vrbata

D OUT: Morris Klee
D IN: Aucoin Vandermeer

When you look at the changes position-by-position I think the improvement is pretty significant. Better depth, better speed, better in the faceoff circle, better on the PK, and better on the power play.

You could make a case that all four lines are improved over last year, and defense is better simply with the subtraction of Hale as the #7

Adding a true goal-scorer would get us very close to eeking into the playoffs if the kids progress from last season (no steps backward) and this off-season doesn't prove to have been too much of a distraction.

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08-21-2009, 05:40 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJF View Post
In the West:

I don't see us being worse then Edmonton.

We shouldn't be worse than Columbus, unless we get out-coached.

We shouldn't be worse than Minnesota, unless we get out-coached.

Dallas didn't do anything to improve and they're on their way down.

We should be able to compete with Nashville.

LA may be better than us this year, but it's close.

And colorado will suck.

In my estimation, given the amount of young players we have and a few good veterans, with good coaching, we should be similar to st. louis, and look how well they did last year. Do you believe st. louis is THAT much of a better team on paper??? Their rookies/sophmores were drafted below ours, their veterans are not as good as ours, neither is their goaltending.
Columbus was a playoff team, last season. Derick Brassard only played 31 games but averaged .81 points per game. He's going to come into this season healthy, and tear **** up. They only had the benefit of 17 games from Antoine Vermette, but he scored at a .76 points per game pace. They're going to have a full season of him, this year. They added Sammi Pahlsson, one of the better shut-down centers in the game, via free-agency. They had nobody to play center, last season, and are now quite deep at the position. They were a team very much torn up by injuries, last season, and still secured the seventh spot in the West. Modin and Torres might not miss thirty games a piece, this season. Jakub Voracek fresh off a very good rookie season will be looking to progress. Nikita Filatov who had a fantastic year in the AHL and scored four goals in only eight NHL games, will be ready, too. If anything, I'd say they're more likely to be this year's Blackhawks than they are worse than us.

St. Louis? They were the sixth seed, last season, and had ZERO games worth of Erik Johnson, and only 11 games of Paul Kariya, who by the way, scored FIFTEEN points in those eleven games. They're default number one guy, Eric Brewer, who was playing 25+ minutes a night for them, managed to get into only 28 games. We're talking about a team that managed to capture the sixth seed in the West without their two best defensemen and without their would be best scorer. They were DESTROYED by injury and still way better than us. If they get some actual goodluck, this season...

Dallas had 18 games of Brenden Morrow. How well would Phoenix have done with 18 games of Shane Doan? They STILL picked three spots after us.

Our worst injury issue was Kurt Sauer. Plus a handful of missed games for Hanzal.

LA added Ryan Smyth. We added Radim Vrbata. Justin Williams is also a darkhorse for them.

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08-21-2009, 05:59 PM
  #67
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Other than Shane Doan, we don't have one player we can expect to score 20 goals.

Sure, there are lots of unknowns.

Mueller might get back to his rookie form.
Hanzal might have a terrific season and shine offensively.
Vrbata might get us 20.
Lombardi / Upshall might have a breakout season.
One of Boedker / Turris might have a growth spurt.

Lots of potential, I'll give you that. But we've had so many seasons with lots of potential I'm kind of burned out. I'm not expecting any of this to happen. We lost a guaranteed 25+ goals in Jokinen, and while Rhino was never an offensive weapon, he did provide 16 and 14 goals during the past 2 seasons.

We do have a much better D. But I'm not sure we're going to score much more than last season's 205 goals.

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08-21-2009, 06:12 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zz View Post
Other than Shane Doan, we don't have one player we can expect to score 20 goals.

Sure, there are lots of unknowns.

Mueller might get back to his rookie form.
Hanzal might have a terrific season and shine offensively.
Vrbata might get us 20.
Lombardi / Upshall might have a breakout season.
One of Boedker / Turris might have a growth spurt.

Lots of potential, I'll give you that. But we've had so many seasons with lots of potential I'm kind of burned out. I'm not expecting any of this to happen. We lost a guaranteed 25+ goals in Jokinen, and while Rhino was never an offensive weapon, he did provide 16 and 14 goals during the past 2 seasons.

We do have a much better D. But I'm not sure we're going to score much more than last season's 205 goals.
I'm not sure I'd call our D much better. Morris and Aucoin are very different, but I'd say they're about a wash in overall quality. Yandle will likely improve, so to me, that's really the biggest difference in the two sets of bluelines. I mean Vandermeer might be a slight upgrade on Klee but we're talking sixth defensemen, here. Lepisto is certainly better than Hale, but again, seventh D isn't exactly make or break, for a blueline corps. To me, the blue line is a little better. I think it'll improve about as much as Yandle does, really.

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08-21-2009, 09:27 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YotesFan View Post
I think that playoff year was more due to MVP goalie play from Burkie.
B-I-N-G-O-!

Burke was lights out that season and won a good number of games (by himself) for the team. If only Bryz could give the Yotes that kind of netminding over a full season... the 8th spot and better in the West would definitely be in reach.

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08-21-2009, 09:39 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lanky View Post
Doan - Hanzal - Mueller
Upshall - Lombardi - Boedker
Prucha - Turris - Vrbata
Winnik - Fiddler - Tikhonov
Korpikoski

Turris will prove he belongs on this team. And for his development, skating him with a couple well rounded players with the potential to get real hot could work.
I don't see it. Provided he doesn't completely tear it up in camp, I think Turris should go to the 'A' for some much needed learning on the job.

The slightly slower pace of the game, while playing against significantly lesser skilled opponents and generally having a little more time for decision making, would help him develop.

I am not ripping Turris. I have seen his potential and I am by no means writing him off or calling him a bust, but I believe that his development would benefit greatly from more ice time (in the minors) and being used in key situations. His confidence would improve by becoming a go-to-guy and his skills/experience would mature at a faster rate than they can while playing 3rd line minutes against a checking line in the show.

I think this kid is special and will eventually become a top line player for this franchise, but he was clearly not ready for the NHL last season and I have my doubts that he will be this time around. He would make a good call up after Christmas to be worked into the line up for a slumping/injured player, after he gets the chance to gain expereince and confidence with the Rampage.

Added side benefit: He will make the farm team better and I really hope for a great season in SA. A winning NHL franchise needs to be built on a successful farm team. Players in the system need to experience success in order to come to expect it. The 2008/'09 SA Rampage season was a disappointment and KT could help turn the fortunes around in TX.

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08-21-2009, 09:44 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalenYote View Post
I think the biggest question on how far we go this year it who is behind the bench. I think we have a very good team this year that has the potential to make it to the playoff and even win a round or two depending on who we play. That is if we are well coached. I donít think it makes much sense to fantasize on what the lineups would be if we have a coach that juggles the lines more Cirque du Soleil. Then again there were a lot of coaches fired and hired last year, so here is to getting a coach that can make the most out of the lines that we have and taking us where we need to goÖ ..to the playoffs.
I was waiting for someone to post something like this... as eventually every single thread on these boards comes down to it.

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08-21-2009, 10:04 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJF
We shouldn't be worse than Columbus, unless we get out-coached.

We shouldn't be worse than Minnesota, unless we get out-coached.
Couple Of Thoughts:

* Would a team not always be 'worse' if it was out-coached? What is the point about that comment? You could also say that we should be better than ____________ (insert team name here):

- unless we receive sub par goaltending;
- exhibit sub-par special team performance;
- take too many penalties;
- fail to convert scoring opportunities;
- suffer injuries to key players;
- have no puck luck;
- etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WJF
We should be able to compete with Nashville.
Nashville has far superior goaltending (Rinne and Ellis) and a better defense than the Coyotes. Their offense (much like the Yotes') is somewhat suspect, but with the system Barry Trotz has them playing, I don't think the Coyotes can compete with the Preds. I see Nashville making it as the 8th seed while the Coyotes will be on the outside looking in.... partly due to the lack of a true top line winger to complement Lombo and Doan.

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08-21-2009, 10:07 PM
  #73
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So far on paper I like what we have but of course the regular season will always be the test. I can only hope the wheels don't come apart right after the half way point of the season(right after the games in Vancouver of course). Which means this team needs to win a lot of games early on in the season to provide insurance as the games become harder to win later on.
Is this the season will see less changes in the lines and put more confidence in what is set and go with it for a while unless injuries happen?

I wouldn't be surprised at this point that getting a player like Alex T or better that this team needs could come at the trade deadline depending if we are in contention or not for a spot.

No matter what happens, as much as I don't want to experience the pain of not making the playoffs again(as all of you as well) I would rather deal with that type of pain than the heartbreak of the Coyotes leaving for good.
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08-21-2009, 10:17 PM
  #74
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One more thing forgot to mention! Goon or not I think we need to have some of our youth get dirty as well as see Doan and Jovo get into the fighting more.
I could be wrong! However I heard its starting to become more common for hockey players to start studying some form of martial arts. Ray Emery of course is into boxing even though his position doesn't require him all that much to scrap preferably not at all.
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08-21-2009, 10:58 PM
  #75
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All those teams, Columbus, Nashville, Minnesota, St Louis, that we are fighting against for the last few playoff seeds all do at least 1 thing really well.

Columbus - system/defense.
Nasheville - Goaltending.
St Louis - Powerplay/scoring.
Minnesota - Defense/goals against (subject to change with new coach)

It's hard to identify what the coyotes are going to be rely on this season to carry us to the playoffs, especially considering how bad we were across the board last year.

We seem to be mediocre to average across the board (good depth, and pending anything significant in trainingcamp), and im not sure we can get away with being OK in every category to compete with those teams that do at least 1 thing well, and i dont see what will end up carrying us.

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