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Pogge's becoming a forgotten man - National Post

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Old
07-23-2009, 01:06 AM
  #51
Cheli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeBird View Post
Burke was interviewed by the Achannel in London Ont, he said he's trying to find a place for him to play, he told Pogge that if they signed the Monster he was no longer in the Leafs plan's. That Riemer was the Marlies starter. Burke was at a Nuclear Plant to announce that the Leafs and Bruce Power have partnered up.
I really hope this is a joke. Is Reimer going to play ALL of the Marlies games? This just doesn't make sense at all... Why not have your top two goalie prospects (I'm not counting Gust as a prospect) battling for starts in the AHL?

So what, they're going to trade Pogge for future considerations and re-sign Munro on an AHL contract to split time with him? Or are they going to sign another vet? It really makes sense that Burke wants guys like those taking time away from Reimer instead of Pogge battling him for it.

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Originally Posted by The Bad Guys View Post
I hope your right. I'd prefer Pogge playing somewhere else away from Toronto. He needs to reconnect with his game, and Riemer deserves his shot at the Marlies lead.
Well, I don't disagree that Pogge might be better off in another team's system (I assume that's what you're saying). But I really don't get this mentality that Pogge is somehow in Reimer's way. If Reimer wants the #1 AHL job, he should play better than Pogge to get it. I thought we had just gotten to accepting that competition was a good thing, and that handing people jobs was in the past. Now we're saying that Reimer deserves to be handed the #1 and Pogge should be headed out because we don't want Reimer to have the competition? I'll be honest, I like Reimer as a prospect more than I like Pogge, but this whole situation with him is just ridiculous.

The Leafs signed a goalie who has been excellent in Sweden, hoping that he will be able to translate that play to the NHL. They signed him to backup Toskala and hopefully push him, with the potential of stealing the #1 job. How does that affect the AHL tandem of Pogge/Reimer? Even if they do send Gust down to play a few extra games now and then throughout the season, the Marlies will still need 2 permanent goalies on the team. Not including Gust, the Leafs have two main goalie prospects who are both at an AHL level right now and could easily split time at the AHL level this year. Why would they trade one of them?

I feel like I'm going crazy here, talking to myself or something. Am I literally the ONLY person who doesn't understand the situation that people are presenting right now?

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07-23-2009, 06:39 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Semantics View Post
Pogge should be the forgotten man. I don't know why anybody had any expectations that he'd be an NHL goalie, let alone a starter. Stuff like this really makes you wonder about the rationality and critical thinking ability of people who follow the Leafs.

The guy was picked freaking #90 overall. Most players picked in that neighborhood do not make the NHL. You probably have a 1/4 chance at #90 of getting a player who will even stick in the league, never mind being above average for his position.

Pogge has never done a single thing in his career to warrant being touted as a future #1 goalie. His draft position didn't justify that expectation. His play in junior didn't. His AHL play certainly hasn't. Making team Canada at the WJC was a nice accomplishment, but it's hardly a stretch for a #90 overall pick in his 19-yo season to make it. Half the kids who make the WJC team don't go on to serious NHL careers either.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Pogge. The only thing that's wrong is some people's expectations. He is not a bust, his development isn't stalled, his game isn't broken, he isn't a man with destroyed confidence, he's not a shell of his former self ... he is just turning out to be a typical #90 overall pick, not the diamond in the rough you hope to find when you draft a player mid-round.
This repeated dismissing his potential because he was a 90th pick on the draft is remarkably simplistic. Why? I only count 11 starting goalies from the 2008-09 NHL season who were picked earlier than the 3rd round of the entry draft. There isn't a less certain prospect than a goalie prospect at the draft table.

Making the WJC is an accomplishment no matter whether it hardly guarantees future professional success. Of course it raises expectations for the prospect. Being the starting goalie on the Canadian World Junior team means hockey people have determined that you're the best goalie in Canada under the age of 20. Fans should have been excited by a prospect who accomplished that.

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07-23-2009, 08:11 AM
  #53
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Pogge re-signed according to Cap Geek. $605,000 cap hit.

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07-23-2009, 08:20 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Semantics View Post
Pogge should be the forgotten man. I don't know why anybody had any expectations that he'd be an NHL goalie, let alone a starter. Stuff like this really makes you wonder about the rationality and critical thinking ability of people who follow the Leafs.

The guy was picked freaking #90 overall. Most players picked in that neighborhood do not make the NHL. You probably have a 1/4 chance at #90 of getting a player who will even stick in the league, never mind being above average for his position.

Pogge has never done a single thing in his career to warrant being touted as a future #1 goalie. His draft position didn't justify that expectation. His play in junior didn't. His AHL play certainly hasn't. Making team Canada at the WJC was a nice accomplishment, but it's hardly a stretch for a #90 overall pick in his 19-yo season to make it. Half the kids who make the WJC team don't go on to serious NHL careers either.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Pogge. The only thing that's wrong is some people's expectations. He is not a bust, his development isn't stalled, his game isn't broken, he isn't a man with destroyed confidence, he's not a shell of his former self ... he is just turning out to be a typical #90 overall pick, not the diamond in the rough you hope to find when you draft a player mid-round.
This is why people were excited about him
* 2006 – World Junior Hockey Championship gold medal
* 2006 – World Junior Hockey Championship Team Canada MVP
* 2006 – Four Broncos Memorial Trophy – Player of the Year in the WHL
* 2006 – Del Wilson Trophy – Top goaltender in the WHL
* 2006 – CHL Goaltender of the Year

- Accomplishments like these usually get people, not just fans, excited. He beat out Price for the starters job at the WJC, a top 5 pick (yes younger, but still highly touted) and was the best goalie in his junior league. He became a much better prospect after the draft, like many other goalies. Steve Mason comes to mind.

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07-23-2009, 08:20 AM
  #55
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It's umbelievable that they can say all this about a goalie that has played. i think 8 games i could be wrong but, it's rediculous. a lot goalies don't even start get going until there around 25 or 26 he's 23 now. I am a goalie so i a soft spot for them but come on give him break.

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07-23-2009, 08:23 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Semantics View Post
Pogge should be the forgotten man. I don't know why anybody had any expectations that he'd be an NHL goalie, let alone a starter. Stuff like this really makes you wonder about the rationality and critical thinking ability of people who follow the Leafs.

The guy was picked freaking #90 overall. Most players picked in that neighborhood do not make the NHL. You probably have a 1/4 chance at #90 of getting a player who will even stick in the league, never mind being above average for his position.

Pogge has never done a single thing in his career to warrant being touted as a future #1 goalie. His draft position didn't justify that expectation. His play in junior didn't. His AHL play certainly hasn't. Making team Canada at the WJC was a nice accomplishment, but it's hardly a stretch for a #90 overall pick in his 19-yo season to make it. Half the kids who make the WJC team don't go on to serious NHL careers either.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Pogge. The only thing that's wrong is some people's expectations. He is not a bust, his development isn't stalled, his game isn't broken, he isn't a man with destroyed confidence, he's not a shell of his former self ... he is just turning out to be a typical #90 overall pick, not the diamond in the rough you hope to find when you draft a player mid-round.
You should at least check your statements...
From Pogge's bio... "Playing for the Hitmen in 200506, Pogge was awarded the Four Broncos Memorial Trophy as league MVP as well as the CHL Goaltender of the Year Award and Del Wilson Trophy as the top WHL goaltender with a 1.72 goals against average (GAA) and 11 shutouts."

In other words, he swept every award available to him. And he backstopped a Canadian WJC team that was not expected to win gold - the Americans were - to the championship.

If that isn't accomplishing something in junior, what is???

Pogge had a really cr@ppy, disappointing season last year, and may need a new start somewhere else. But he certainly was the kind of prospect that justifiably raises expectations.

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07-23-2009, 08:38 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by wisdomkid View Post
Wouldn't it be cool if we still had Rask?

When are other teams going to be like us and give up their good prospects for oldies and washed out players?
When the leafs traded for Raycroft he was an excellent goalie and he had a 1 good year with the leafs and if you don't believe me look at his stats the first year he played. After that year he went and turned into garbage i don't remember if it was because of injury. but, this should say something about our goaltending coaches at the time. It just go's to show we had the terrible goaltending coaches. Those also could have been the coaches for the bulk of pogge's career. do see what i am getting at.

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07-23-2009, 08:42 AM
  #58
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leafs signed pogge for 1 year deal @ 605K according to capgeek.

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07-23-2009, 09:58 AM
  #59
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Pogge should do a lot better with Burke's new defense in front of him. slamming players into the end boards instead of standing around like pilons.hopefully there still is a spot in our organization as a #2 or #3 goalie.

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07-23-2009, 10:01 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by dkhakh View Post
leafs signed pogge for 1 year deal @ 605K according to capgeek.
Cheap, but I'm surprised the Leafs kept him.
He was very bad last season, one of those small reasons you missed the playoffs. Goaltending was an issue last season. Toskala, Joseph and Pogge were awful at times. Pogge couldn't catch that small, black puck at all in some of those games I watched.

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07-23-2009, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by FreeBird View Post
Burke was interviewed by the Achannel in London Ont, he said he's trying to find a place for him to play, he told Pogge that if they signed the Monster he was no longer in the Leafs plan's. That Riemer was the Marlies starter. Burke was at a Nuclear Plant to announce that the Leafs and Bruce Power have partnered up.
Apparently you are the only person who watches the A channel because there is no report of this major announcement anywhere.

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07-23-2009, 10:18 AM
  #62
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While Reimer was impressive in the ECHL last year, I don't think he should just be handed the starter's job for the Marlies right away. I'd like to see him and Pogge battle for the spot. Reimer needs the competition to better himself, while Pogge just needs it to keep his bleak NHL prospects open.

I'm not entirely against trading Pogge, but would be a bit disappointed. No way we'd get fair value and it would be shame if he did start to blossom after we traded him... I'd like to see one more year out of him.

Since Pogge's entry-deal is now done, can anyone confirm that he'd be exposed to waivers if sent down to the Marlies? I think that's how it works. Can't imagine many teams would claim him to have as their backup this season though.

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07-23-2009, 10:39 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by AlienWorkShop View Post
While Reimer was impressive in the ECHL last year, I don't think he should just be handed the starter's job for the Marlies right away. I'd like to see him and Pogge battle for the spot. Reimer needs the competition to better himself, while Pogge just needs it to keep his bleak NHL prospects open.

I'm not entirely against trading Pogge, but would be a bit disappointed. No way we'd get fair value and it would be shame if he did start to blossom after we traded him... I'd like to see one more year out of him.

Since Pogge's entry-deal is now done, can anyone confirm that he'd be exposed to waivers if sent down to the Marlies? I think that's how it works. Can't imagine many teams would claim him to have as their backup this season though.
Pogge doesn't have to clear waivers next season.

The Marlies were as messed up as the Leafs last season because they also had the lame duck Fletcher in charge of them so let's see next year with real management in place.

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07-23-2009, 10:56 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Cheli View Post
I really hope this is a joke. Is Reimer going to play ALL of the Marlies games? This just doesn't make sense at all... Why not have your top two goalie prospects (I'm not counting Gust as a prospect) battling for starts in the AHL?
This is all fine and dandy, but why wasn't this argument legit to many when we had Pogge and Rask? You know...to push each other and in case one of them doesn't become all that he is cracked up to be.

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07-23-2009, 11:18 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by 67Cup View Post
You should at least check your statements...
From Pogge's bio... "Playing for the Hitmen in 200506, Pogge was awarded the Four Broncos Memorial Trophy as league MVP as well as the CHL Goaltender of the Year Award and Del Wilson Trophy as the top WHL goaltender with a 1.72 goals against average (GAA) and 11 shutouts."

In other words, he swept every award available to him. And he backstopped a Canadian WJC team that was not expected to win gold - the Americans were - to the championship.

If that isn't accomplishing something in junior, what is???

Pogge had a really cr@ppy, disappointing season last year, and may need a new start somewhere else. But he certainly was the kind of prospect that justifiably raises expectations.
His junior career was very misleading. Yes, he won the awards, but his team was stacked. Other teams were able to get in his head during the playoffs and that's why they didn't win it all. As far as the WJC go, he didn't exactly have to come up big in any games in order to win. This tournament above everything else, set him up. No one would have expected anything from him had he been the backup that year.

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07-23-2009, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
His junior career was very misleading. Yes, he won the awards, but his team was stacked.
What? In 2004-05 the Hitmen were 11th in the league in offence, in 2005-06 they were 12th. Pogge had little margin for error which is why he won all of those awards.

Talk about misleading.

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07-23-2009, 12:13 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
What? In 2004-05 the Hitmen were 11th in the league in offence, in 2005-06 they were 12th. Pogge had little margin for error which is why he won all of those awards.

Talk about misleading.
I really don't get why so many seem to be cropping up slamming Pogge's junior career now too. His last couple years were just about as good as they come in junior.

"well I knew Pogge wasn't going to cut it as a pro because his numbers were behind the Hitmen and the WJC team was stacked and Rask was better in the WJC blah blah blah"

please.

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07-23-2009, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
What? In 2004-05 the Hitmen were 11th in the league in offence, in 2005-06 they were 12th. Pogge had little margin for error which is why he won all of those awards.

Talk about misleading.
Their defense was great and didn't give up that many quality chances per game. You conveniently left that out. They were ranked #1 in defense. The only team that allowed fewer shots per game was Vancouver. Pogge played that system perfectly. He was a cog in the machine. He hasn't played on a team so defensively sound since. It has exposed him.

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07-23-2009, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
Their defense was great and didn't give up that many quality chances per game. You conveniently left that out. They were ranked #1 in defense. The only team that allowed fewer shots per game was Vancouver. Pogge played that system perfectly. He was a cog in the machine. He hasn't played on a team so defensively sound since. It has exposed him.
Pogge played that system perfectly, that is correct. When the team in front of a goalie averages less that 3 goals for he can't have but a few bad games all season and that is why he won all of those awards.

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07-23-2009, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by AlienWorkShop View Post
I really don't get why so many seem to be cropping up slamming Pogge's junior career now too. His last couple years were just about as good as they come in junior.

"well I knew Pogge wasn't going to cut it as a pro because his numbers were behind the Hitmen and the WJC team was stacked and Rask was better in the WJC blah blah blah"

please.
I saw him play quite a bit after the WJC. Outside of Calgary he was seen as the guy who could be gotten to. Ask any Moose Jaw fans or even Lethbridge fans that had a field day chanting his name throwing him off his game so much so that the Lethbridge fan busses were barred from buying seats behind the Hitmen net at the Saddledome.

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07-23-2009, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
I saw him play quite a bit after the WJC. Outside of Calgary he was seen as the guy who could be gotten to. Ask any Moose Jaw fans or even Lethbridge fans that had a field day chanting his name throwing him off his game so much so that the Lethbridge fan busses were barred from buying seats behind the Hitmen net at the Saddledome.
In 2005-06 Pogge went 5-1 against Lethbridge and 3-1 against Moose Jaw. Don't you have something better to do?

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07-23-2009, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Pogge played that system perfectly, that is correct. When the team in front of a goalie averages less that 3 goals for he can't have but a few bad games all season and that is why he won all of those awards.
No one is disputing the great season he had. What I'm saying is that there were better goalies playing in the league that year that didn't have the benefit of a great defense. As an extreme example that year, compare him to Dustin Slade who everyone agrees was an average goalie at best. He was able to take his team to the Memorial Cup. He got no props whatsoever. Moose Jaw's Perricone outplayed Pogge and that's why Calgary lost in the 2nd round that year.

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07-23-2009, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
In 2005-06 Pogge went 5-1 against Lethbridge and 3-1 against Moose Jaw. Don't you have something better to do?
A below average Lethbridge team took Calgary to 6 games in the first round of the playoffs and underdog Moose Jaw beat them in 7 the next round. No I have nothing better to do. Apparently neither do you.

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07-23-2009, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
No one is disputing the great season he had. What I'm saying is that there were better goalies playing in the league that year that didn't have the benefit of a great defense. As an extreme example that year, compare him to Dustin Slade who everyone agrees was an average goalie at best. He was able to take his team to the Memorial Cup. He got no props whatsoever. Moose Jaw's Perricone outplayed Pogge and that's why Calgary lost in the 2nd round that year.
Moose Jaw and Vancouver were both far better offensive teams, 1st and 3rd in the league. If Slade took his team to the Memorial Cup then I imagine he would not be in the witness protection plan right now.

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07-23-2009, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Moose Jaw and Vancouver were both far better offensive teams, 1st and 3rd in the league. If Slade took his team to the Memorial Cup then I imagine he would not be in the witness protection plan right now.
Bottom line, Pogge's abilities were overhyped based largely on him capitalizing on being at the right place at the right time. It did him a disservice. He wasn't the first player it happened to and he won't be the last.

On another note, do you think if Pogge backs up Dubnyk at the WJC that Rask is the one traded for Raycroft?

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