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Pogge's becoming a forgotten man - National Post

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Old
07-23-2009, 01:19 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
Their defense was great and didn't give up that many quality chances per game. You conveniently left that out. They were ranked #1 in defense. The only team that allowed fewer shots per game was Vancouver. Pogge played that system perfectly. He was a cog in the machine. He hasn't played on a team so defensively sound since. It has exposed him.
Perhaps the team with the number 1 defensive ranking had very good goaltending... Ya think?

Listen, you have to work very hard to claim that a goalie that won not only the CHL goalie of the year award but the MVP of the league did not have a dominant junior record. Nobody is denying he played terribly last year. But why try to twist facts about his junior career.

By the way, I live in Vancouver and see lots of WHL games too. Pogge was a great junior.

Case closed.

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07-23-2009, 01:32 PM
  #77
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Perhaps the team with the number 1 defensive ranking had very good goaltending... Ya think?

Listen, you have to work very hard to claim that a goalie that won not only the CHL goalie of the year award but the MVP of the league did not have a dominant junior record. Nobody is denying he played terribly last year. But why try to twist facts about his junior career.

By the way, I live in Vancouver and see lots of WHL games too. Pogge was a great junior.

Case closed.
Not twisting facts. He had a great junior career. But to dismiss what being on Calgary did for him is silly. He cut his goals against by .5 and his save % went from .891 to .917 in the same season he was traded by Prince George. He didn't magically get better in the span of a few months, did he? No the team he played for was better. If he doesn't get traded, he doesn't make Team Canada and he probably is in the same position he is now except no one is calling him a bust.

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07-23-2009, 01:40 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
Not twisting facts. He had a great junior career. But to dismiss what being on Calgary did for him is silly. He cut his goals against by .5 and his save % went from .891 to .917 in the same season he was traded by Prince George. He didn't magically get better in the span of a few months, did he? No the team he played for was better. If he doesn't get traded, he doesn't make Team Canada and he probably is in the same position he is now except no one is calling him a bust.
Curtis McElhinney
Goalie
Born May 23 1983 -- London, ONT
Height 6.02 -- Weight 197 -- Shoots L

Can you imagine if he was 26 years old and was as horrible as McElhinney?

Talk about busts!!!

So I wonder if the Flames are going to give Irving the chance now?

Leland Irving
Goalie
Born Apr 11 1988 -- Swan Hills, ALTA
Height 6.00 -- Weight 176 -- Shoots L

Justin Pogge
Goalie
Born Apr 22 1986 -- Fort McMurray, ALTA
Height 6.03 -- Weight 204 -- Shoots L

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07-23-2009, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
Not twisting facts. He had a great junior career. But to dismiss what being on Calgary did for him is silly. He cut his goals against by .5 and his save % went from .891 to .917 in the same season he was traded by Prince George. He didn't magically get better in the span of a few months, did he? No the team he played for was better. If he doesn't get traded, he doesn't make Team Canada and he probably is in the same position he is now except no one is calling him a bust.
Why did Calgary trade for Pogge then? To make his stats look better?

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07-23-2009, 01:50 PM
  #80
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Why did Calgary trade for Pogge then? To make his stats look better?
Nope. It was good for all involved.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...algary_hitmen/

However: "Justin Pogge was brought into the Calgary Hitmen organization for one sole purpose; to be a hot hand come playoff time. "

That didn't exactly materialize.

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07-23-2009, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
Nope. It was good for all involved.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...algary_hitmen/

However: "Justin Pogge was brought into the Calgary Hitmen organization for one sole purpose; to be a hot hand come playoff time. "

That didn't exactly materialize.
Just a 1.94 GAA and a 0.928 save PCT.

Go have lunch.

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07-23-2009, 02:03 PM
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Bottom line, Pogge's abilities were overhyped based largely on him capitalizing on being at the right place at the right time. It did him a disservice. He wasn't the first player it happened to and he won't be the last.

On another note, do you think if Pogge backs up Dubnyk at the WJC that Rask is the one traded for Raycroft?
Boston wanted Rask to play with Toivonen going forward, who was their "goalie of the future" at that time. Most Boston fans were hoping for a platoon situation with Rask and Toivonen. Both were finish goalies and that connection was something Boston was looking for.

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07-23-2009, 02:13 PM
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Just a 1.94 GAA and a 0.928 save PCT.

Go have lunch.
And 2 consecutive conference semi-final game 7 losses. Up 3 games to 1 against Brandon only to lose the next 3. Up 3 games to 2 against Moose Jaw only to lose the next 2.

Thanks, I already ate.

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07-23-2009, 02:15 PM
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Boston wanted Rask to play with Toivonen going forward, who was their "goalie of the future" at that time. Most Boston fans were hoping for a platoon situation with Rask and Toivonen. Both were finish goalies and that connection was something Boston was looking for.
Was Pogge even an option? Were they offered either or and they decided on Rask?

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07-23-2009, 02:20 PM
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Was Pogge even an option? Were they offered either or and they decided on Rask?
As far as I know, they wanted Rask, not Pogge, from the get-go. They may have been offered Pogge first, I have no idea, but Rask was the one they were after. Our first (Tlusty) may have been the next option, but it didn't seem like they wanted Pogge with Toivonen set to be their starter.

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07-23-2009, 02:28 PM
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As far as I know, they wanted Rask, not Pogge, from the get-go. They may have been offered Pogge first, I have no idea, but Rask was the one they were after. Our first (Tlusty) may have been the next option, but it didn't seem like they wanted Pogge with Toivonen set to be their starter.
At the time weren't both Pogge and Rask on the same footing as far as prospects go? What was the reaction from fans?

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07-23-2009, 02:32 PM
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At the time weren't both Pogge and Rask on the same footing as far as prospects go? What was the reaction from fans?
Go back and take a look. Just search Rask and set the appropriate date.

At the time, many Leafs fans had alot of faith in Pogge. The Leafs organization seemed to be pushing him and he was getting high praise around the world with his junior stats, WJC gold medal, and participate in the World's as an underager (like Toews did). Rask was still highly touted by fans (I think more than Pogge) and there was excitement about our goaltending.

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07-23-2009, 02:35 PM
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And 2 consecutive conference semi-final game 7 losses. Up 3 games to 1 against Brandon only to lose the next 3. Up 3 games to 2 against Moose Jaw only to lose the next 2.

Thanks, I already ate.
Hopefully it tasted better than the BS you've been serving up in here. It wasn't Leaf fans that gave Pogge all of those awards.

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07-23-2009, 02:39 PM
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Go back and take a look. Just search Rask and set the appropriate date.
The Rask Vs. Gustavsson thread answers the question.

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07-23-2009, 02:42 PM
  #90
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Hopefully it tasted better than the BS you've been serving up in here. It wasn't Leaf fans that gave Pogge all of those awards.
Ok you win. Pogge was awesome. He ruled the dub with his outstanding abilities. He won all the individual awards imaginable. The team around him failed to come through for him in the playoffs. Not a reflection of him at all.

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07-23-2009, 02:50 PM
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Ok you win. Pogge was awesome. He ruled the dub with his outstanding abilities. He won all the individual awards imaginable. The team around him failed to come through for him in the playoffs. Not a reflection of him at all.
Your sarcasm isn't all that far removed from the truth.

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07-23-2009, 02:58 PM
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Your sarcasm isn't all that far removed from the truth.
Makes me wonder then how could he have fallen so far? Is it because of the players he is surrounded with now? Is he a victim of being on crappy teams?

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07-23-2009, 02:58 PM
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Makes me wonder then how could he have fallen so far? Is it because of the players he is surrounded with now? Is he a victim of being on crappy teams?
Ability.

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07-23-2009, 03:02 PM
  #94
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Makes me wonder then how could he have fallen so far? Is it because of the players he is surrounded with now? Is he a victim of being on crappy teams?
Big jump from junior to pro hockey. It's clear he has talent, but his mental game lacks. In the lower level, this is less significant. As those around him have improved, he has not.

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07-23-2009, 03:07 PM
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Ability.
I disagree. Clearly Pogge has regressed and not lived up 6to his potential "yet". He's still very big, quick and agile (that hasn't changed) to be honest I think it's the mental aspect of his game. * see above.

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07-23-2009, 03:16 PM
  #96
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Big jump from junior to pro hockey. It's clear he has talent, but his mental game lacks. In the lower level, this is less significant. As those around him have improved, he has not.
The mental aspect may be what prompted me to think he was over rated in Junior. While he clearly excelled in the regular season, I witnessed him getting thrown off his game in the playoffs.

The WJC is the only part I don't get. He stood up to the task there quite nicely. Was the team just too good?

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07-23-2009, 03:22 PM
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PPP found the story about the Burke quote in a local paper.

http://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/Art...aspx?e=1668772

Quote:
While Burke had the same style of team in the 2006-07 Stanley Cup-champion Anaheim Ducks, he knows the Leafs need help up front and will continue his search for a top-six forward to join the squad while also looking for a new home for goaltender Justin Pogge.

"Pogge's a good kid, but it just didn't work out for him in Toronto," he said. "I assured him I would find him somewhere to play this year."
I'm confused. It doesn't seem like someone could have taken this out of context too much. So Pogge signed his QO just so Burke could trade him? He has so little value right now, and it's not like another team would be playing him in the NHL, so why not have him and Reimer battle for the #1 AHL job?

Something doesn't add up here..

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07-23-2009, 03:23 PM
  #98
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Makes me wonder then how could he have fallen so far? Is it because of the players he is surrounded with now? Is he a victim of being on crappy teams?
Exposed as someone trying to rewrite history and now trying another angle?

Two seasons ago behind a good Marlies team his stats were almost identical to Rask's who also played for a good team. Last year Pogge played behind several rookie defencemen on both the Marlies and the Leafs which isn't exactly a great environment for a goalie.

It's not finished but I am.

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07-23-2009, 03:44 PM
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Exposed as someone trying to rewrite history and now trying another angle?
Nope, I was just being diplomatic. You'll believe what you want. You ignored all the signs that point to his tenure in Junior as being overrated. I can't help that. Either he wasn't ever as good as you thought or the Leafs ruined him. I prefer to think he wasn't that good to begin with.

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07-23-2009, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Cheli View Post
PPP found the story about the Burke quote in a local paper.

http://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/Art...aspx?e=1668772



I'm confused. It doesn't seem like someone could have taken this out of context too much. So Pogge signed his QO just so Burke could trade him? He has so little value right now, and it's not like another team would be playing him in the NHL, so why not have him and Reimer battle for the #1 AHL job?

Something doesn't add up here..
Yes Burke was in Owen Sound and a Achanel reporter asked him about Pogge, this might be just a ploy by Burke to motivate Pogge, he seemed to be saying that he would try and find him a team in the AHL to play on if he couldn't trade him.

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