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Drury down the road

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Old
07-24-2009, 02:04 PM
  #76
dtrap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
The CUP IS OURS!
Haha...I love it.

Although...it does prove an interesting point however...that the captain DOES NOT need to be the best player on the ice...hell...in that case I don't even think Andreychuk was in the top 10 best players on that team...

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07-24-2009, 02:13 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
The CUP IS OURS!
lol...yes he is the one guy out of 14 or so up there.

Another thought to ponder:

Anyone miss Drury out there Game 1 this year? Were you thinking at any time, "Wow, we could use Drury here". I don't think anyone can honestly say that. Henrik was amazing, and Theodore didn't have his best game for sure, but he really wasn't missed.

Now, looking at the list above, ill say every one of those guys would have been missed tremendously if they were out of a key game. Every one single one without a doubt.

Say whatever you want about salary, penalty kill, leading the team in goals in the regular season, good locker room guy (the popular one)

Drury would be the odd man out on that list by a long shot.

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07-24-2009, 02:30 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by pete3589 View Post
lol...yes he is the one guy out of 14 or so up there.

Another thought to ponder:

Anyone miss Drury out there Game 1 this year? Were you thinking at any time, "Wow, we could use Drury here". I don't think anyone can honestly say that. Henrik was amazing, and Theodore didn't have his best game for sure, but he really wasn't missed.

Now, looking at the list above, ill say every one of those guys would have been missed tremendously if they were out of a key game. Every one single one without a doubt.

Say whatever you want about salary, penalty kill, leading the team in goals in the regular season, good locker room guy (the popular one)

Drury would be the odd man out on that list by a long shot.
its great how you ignore multiple posts with information about him being an asset to the team, and focus on what you need to make your "point".

what about the great record the pens put up 2 years back when crosby was out of the lineup? does that prove he's not an asset to the team? should they have dropped him and just given the ball to Malkin?

Also, under your "concrete evidence" mantra, if you dont score 100 points and/or win the cup, you're not a leader or an asset.

We won a bunch of games last couple of years with Valley in goal, does that make Hank less of an asset?

You can throw out all your reasoning all you want, but there's no denying that you will have a vendetta against him no matter what happens with this team.

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07-24-2009, 02:37 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
So, if Drury returns to Buffalo form, does that qualify? I mean that's what we signed him off of, so 37-32-69 plus a run to the ECF? I do think that's possible under Torts. I also think that we're still overpaying for that performance, but it's what we signed on for when we paid an UFA price to acquire him. (And it also is what it is at this point.)

As to "worrying" about losing him - I think he's actually most valuable right as we have him. Drury can mentor Dubi, Cally and others who come up and by the time his deal expires, those who are still here will be ready to step into leadership roles themselves. At that point, it becomes a strictly value for performance play. If Drury wants to come back at a price that reflects his performance, age and role (which at that point will most definitely be 3rd line center), you consdier it on the face of those merits.

Having said that, if we've already got our 1st line and 2nd line cetner locked up (for example with Dubi and AA), then it is more than likely we'll have a center prospect knocking on the door (for example Stepan or Bourque) who we may want to give that spot...
If he got back into the 30's (goals) and 60's (points) and the team could at least get into the semi-finals or even further--yeah I would be much happier with him. I don't think it's going to happen but it's not an impossibility. The whole idea of giving players huge contracts is because you hope/believe that they'll make your team a winner. When the team falls short and the player doesn't produce as-or what is expected--they are and should be the first to take the blame after the management that signed them anyway.

Got to keep in mind though on re-signing guys commensurate to what you reasonably speculate they can produce--that most players after hitting 35 tend to decline and that there are rules vis-a-vis the salary cap that make multi-year deals a real gamble for the vast majority of players that have hit that age 35 threshold. Generally speaking unless the player is really special I wouldn't sign him for more than one year at a time.

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07-24-2009, 03:01 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by allstar3970 View Post
its great how you ignore multiple posts with information about him being an asset to the team, and focus on what you need to make your "point".

what about the great record the pens put up 2 years back when crosby was out of the lineup? does that prove he's not an asset to the team? should they have dropped him and just given the ball to Malkin?

Also, under your "concrete evidence" mantra, if you dont score 100 points and/or win the cup, you're not a leader or an asset.

We won a bunch of games last couple of years with Valley in goal, does that make Hank less of an asset?

You can throw out all your reasoning all you want, but there's no denying that you will have a vendetta against him no matter what happens with this team.
I just want to see your evidence to prove your "point" about him being an asset. Show me.

You come back with "you have your torch lit already". I want to see why he gets a pass from some people. I've shown my reasons as to why I haven't been a fan of his work, I want to see yours. There has to be some evidence out there....right? Just asking to see it... I want to believe...really I do

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Old
07-24-2009, 03:25 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by pete3589 View Post
I just want to see your evidence to prove your "point" about him being an asset. Show me.

You come back with "you have your torch lit already". I want to see why he gets a pass from some people. I've shown my reasons as to why I haven't been a fan of his work, I want to see yours. There has to be some evidence out there....right? Just asking to see it... I want to believe...really I do
I can already see your response referencing his contract, but lets leave that out of the discussion.
You have zero evidence of him not being an asset.
your evidence is:

1) he's not a hall of famer
2) he's not one of the top point scorers in the league
3) we beat the caps in game 1 without him.
4) we didnt win the cup last year.

he's been one of our top goal scorers the last 2 seasons

like dtrap posted he scored more than 20% of our PP goals last season

He kills penalties...Betts/Sjo did not play the whole PK

plenty of reports about the things he's done as far as phone calls etc. to people we're looking to bring in.

is he the superstar game changer we've needed? nope. But saying he's not even an asset in any sense is just wrong

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07-24-2009, 04:01 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by allstar3970 View Post
I can already see your response referencing his contract, but lets leave that out of the discussion.
You have zero evidence of him not being an asset.
your evidence is:

1) he's not a hall of famer
2) he's not one of the top point scorers in the league
3) we beat the caps in game 1 without him.
4) we didnt win the cup last year.

he's been one of our top goal scorers the last 2 seasons

like dtrap posted he scored more than 20% of our PP goals last season

He kills penalties...Betts/Sjo did not play the whole PK

plenty of reports about the things he's done as far as phone calls etc. to people we're looking to bring in.

is he the superstar game changer we've needed? nope. But saying he's not even an asset in any sense is just wrong
I never said he wasn't any kind of asset, not by a long shot. I just think people overvalue him on this team.

His strongest point for me is that he can be on the ice in all situations (PK, PP, 4v4, etc...), but people want to put this leader thing out there in the forefront cause really it's the only thing that people can say, and its tough to argue, cause who really knows for sure?

He was not the reason our PK was #1 in the league, or Buffalo's PK would have been much much better than it was when he was there.

10 PP goals on one of the worst PP's in the league...OK

Phone calls....really?? He's an asset cause of this?

I want more out of him, and he is capable of doing it. I think we definitely have the coach that will do it too.

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Old
07-24-2009, 04:30 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete3589 View Post
I never said he wasn't any kind of asset, not by a long shot. I just think people overvalue him on this team.

His strongest point for me is that he can be on the ice in all situations (PK, PP, 4v4, etc...), but people want to put this leader thing out there in the forefront cause really it's the only thing that people can say, and its tough to argue, cause who really knows for sure?

He was not the reason our PK was #1 in the league, or Buffalo's PK would have been much much better than it was when he was there.

10 PP goals on one of the worst PP's in the league...OK

Phone calls....really?? He's an asset cause of this?

I want more out of him, and he is capable of doing it. I think we definitely have the coach that will do it too.
The phone calls are minor yes, but i think he gets some props for that. It's funny how this post is completely different than your previous ones in this thread, a lot less negative (if it was to bait discussion...well it worked obviously lol)

I disagree on what you say about Drury not being a huge part of the PK just b/c buffalo wasnt near the top when he was there. Were Betts' and Sjostrom's previous teams tops in that dept?

Not a lot of people are putting the leader thing in the forefront if anything, you have WAY more of the "OMG DRURY IS A TERRIBLE CAPTAIN LET THE KIDS BE CAPTAIN PLZ!!!" people.

Drury is good at all aspects of the game, not necessarily great at any of them. I think because of that it tends to seem like he's invisible. (Zherdev for example got way more praise last year, despite having just 2 more points, and playing no defense save for one diving poke check)

but 25 goal scorers who play on the PK, and can take important faceoffs are not as common as people here would have you think. And those 22-25 goals can easily become more like 30 on a better offensive team, which i hope we have this year. I just refuse to rag on him b/c Sather overpaid for him. That's not his fault.

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Old
07-24-2009, 04:33 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete3589 View Post
I never said he wasn't any kind of asset, not by a long shot. I just think people overvalue him on this team.

His strongest point for me is that he can be on the ice in all situations (PK, PP, 4v4, etc...), but people want to put this leader thing out there in the forefront cause really it's the only thing that people can say, and its tough to argue, cause who really knows for sure?

He was not the reason our PK was #1 in the league, or Buffalo's PK would have been much much better than it was when he was there.

10 PP goals on one of the worst PP's in the league...OK

Phone calls....really?? He's an asset cause of this?
I want more out of him, and he is capable of doing it. I think we definitely have the coach that will do it too.
Stop it. You're interpreting it literally to make your point and it just doesn't fly. How about instead of calling it "phone calls" we call it "recruiting"? Gabby and Kotalik both referred to his contribution in their description of why they decided to come to the Rangers. Are you still going to say "really"? As if all it means is that he picked up the phone and it had no more impact than if the youngest intern at MSG had done it? C'mon.

There are justifiable arguments to make your points about Drury. But when you use semantics to dismiss rebuttals, rather than address them on their face, it weakens your position.

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07-24-2009, 05:09 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
Let's see...what does Drury bring to the team...

1) I would certainly say that Chris Drury brought a lot to the PK...sorry but Betts and Sjo weren't playing the entire 2 minutes of every penalty...it was also Drury, Dubi, Cally and Korp doing a lot of the work

2) Drury also scored 10 power play goals last year (the most on the team)...that's 10 out of 48 PPGs...over 1/5th of the team's power play output...

3) As for Naslund hanging it up...Marcus Naslund was a former 100 point scorer...it was clear that he had lost a step and decided to hang it up...Chris Drury IS and ALWAYS HAS BEEN a 50-60 point guy. Nothing more...nothing less. His production with the Rangers has been pretty much in line with the rest of his career. I still don't understand why some people ever expected him to be more than that.

4) It's been well reported that Drury made calls to both Gilroy and Gaborik to recruit them to come play for the Rangers...

1) You are supporting the opposite of Dreary's value to the penalty kill by admitting the 5-6 forwards shared the duty.

2) Leading the team in man advantage ATOI will do wonders for your stats. He was at one time of the season averaging about 23-24 minutes a game and was trotted out to carry the sad sack powerplay unit. As it is he only scored a powerplay goal in 8 games out of 82 (twice he scored 2 goals), for all his steller work he only had 10 assist in 10 games, but he had a PPG and PPA in 3 games, meaning that his contribution on the powerplay came in roughly 10% of the season schedule. Yeah, he's a killer alright. He is put in a situation to suck-seed. But that's awful production, at whatever price.

3) some fans are just sick and tired of the hype. He's a middle of the pack player, no better, no worse. Throw out all the intangibles you want to justify his place on the team and getting the C before he's ever played his first game.

4) and that's my biggest beef. You want to help the team? Produce on the ice. I'm sure he had a hand in getting Kotalik here too. Gaborik's decision was based on $$$, just as Gilroys's was based on receiving the same offer as TML but we we gave him a 2-way deal. Dreary can make all the meaningless gestures he wants. And some fans are free to drink the coolaid.

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Old
07-25-2009, 01:11 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Stop it. You're interpreting it literally to make your point and it just doesn't fly. How about instead of calling it "phone calls" we call it "recruiting"? Gabby and Kotalik both referred to his contribution in their description of why they decided to come to the Rangers. Are you still going to say "really"? As if all it means is that he picked up the phone and it had no more impact than if the youngest intern at MSG had done it? C'mon.

There are justifiable arguments to make your points about Drury. But when you use semantics to dismiss rebuttals, rather than address them on their face, it weakens your position.
So you are saying that Gaborik is a Ranger cause Chris Drury spoke to him on the phone? Do you really think this is a deciding factor in getting a player to come play on our team? It's a nice gesture, sure, but please don't think for a second that a personal phone call from Chris Drury bears some significant weight in getting FA's to come here. It's not like this guy is Wayne Gretzky in his prime asking someone to play on his wing, it's Chris Drury.

And yes, when discussing the value of a player, and someone brings up the fact that he makes phone calls to other players in hopes of luring them here, you are going to get semantics, cause its clear that you are really reaching at that point.

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Old
07-25-2009, 02:06 PM
  #87
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By the end of this contract he will be very very very well off financially. IMO he really won't care about money and take a ridiculously cheap contract to stay for about 2 years dare i say 2yr at 2 mill per? I think he'll do this to prove to the fans that he is not all about the money he plays for the love of the game. Another reason he'll do this is to pay back the fans for all the crap he took and now he'll be loved and everyone will forget about that one time 7 mill dollar contract.

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Old
07-25-2009, 02:59 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by kyko1827 View Post
By the end of this contract he will be very very very well off financially. IMO he really won't care about money and take a ridiculously cheap contract to stay for about 2 years dare i say 2yr at 2 mill per? I think he'll do this to prove to the fans that he is not all about the money he plays for the love of the game. Another reason he'll do this is to pay back the fans for all the crap he took and now he'll be loved and everyone will forget about that one time 7 mill dollar contract.
At 36 years of age he may be a 30-40 point guy and if some who are prospects now do as we hope--there's a good chance he wouldn't be needed or put another way $2 million could be too much.

In any case I'm not looking for favors from this guy after he's made his pile--I'd be much happier if he came even close to earning what he's making now.

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