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Goal scoring 2009-10 season, WHO and How many ???

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Old
07-24-2009, 01:09 AM
  #26
KingsRule
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
Forwards
#24 Alexander Frolov 42 goals
#11 Anze Kopitar 37 goals
#94 Ryan Smyth 32 goals
#23 Dustin Brown 34 goals
#14 Justin Williams 25 goals
#26 Michal Handzus 13 goals
#28 Jarret Stoll 21 goals
#9 Oscar Moller 12 goals
#17 Wayne Simmonds 17 goals
#54 Teddy Purcell 10 goals
# Trevor Lewis 13 goals
#41 Raitis Ivanans 2 goal
#15 Brad Richardson 5 goal
#47 Corey Elkins 6 goals
# Brandon Segal 10 goals
#13 John Zeiler 2 goals

Defensemen
#8 Drew Doughty 12 goals
#3 Jack Johnson 16 goals
# Thomas Hickey 7 goals
#5 Peter Harrold 2 goals
#2 Matt Greene 4 goals
#44 Davis Drewiske 2 goals
#7 Rob Scuderi 3 goals
#6 Sean O'Donnell 1 goal
youve got. hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh hopes

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Old
07-24-2009, 01:09 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
You people are all high.
How many teams had 6 players with more than 20 goals? Maybe one or two - but the Kings are going to have 7?
What about over 30 goals? Pitt had 2, SJ had 2, Philly had 4 - there were a total of 39 in the league
...but some of you think that the Kings will have 5?!?!?
Well I can't speak for the others, but in my post at least, I did include the +/- latitude of being high or low by a few goals. But even so ...

1 - #24 Alexander Frolov {35+/- goals}
he scored 32 last year, and 35 in 06-07, so 35+/- isn't unrealistic
2 - #11 Anze Kopitar 21 yr {30+/- goals}
scored 27 last year, and 32 in 07-08, 30+/- is realistic
3 - #94 Ryan Smyth 33 yr {30+/- goals}
scored 26 last year on a bad Avalanche team, 31 in 06-07 and 36 in 05-06, 30 might be high but 25+/- is realistic
4 - #23 Dustin Brown 24 yr {25+ goals}
scored 24 last year, and 33 in 07-08, 25+/- is realistic
5 - #14 Justin Williams 27 yr {20+/- goals}
is a wild-card depending on health, but has scored over 30 twice in recent years, 20+/- Could very well be possible
6 - #26 Michal Handzus 32 yr {20+/- goals}
scored 18 last year, and 20+ 3 times in career, 20+/- is possible
7 - #28 Jarret Stoll 27 yr {20+ goals}
scored 18 last year, and 22 in 05-06, 20+/- is possible

... so there's your 7 players that CAN net 20 Goals {give or take}, and 3 that CAN net 30+ goals {not sure who said 5 ?}
WILL they all meet these Goal marks, probably not, but they could, and HAVE in their recent pasts.

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Old
07-24-2009, 02:00 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck U View Post
{not sure who said 5 ?}
KingCanadain1976 predicted four 30 goal scorers and a few picked three. 5 different people have been picked to score 30 goals so far in the thread. Kopitar, Frolov, Brown, Smyth and Williams. PSP may have been exaggerating a bit but I was thinking the same thing he was about people smoking a little too much stuff.

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Old
07-24-2009, 02:44 AM
  #29
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Kopitar: 40 goals
Fro:30 goals
Williams/Smyth/Brown: 20 goals

NOTE - one of these players will get injured, thus you can subtract 10-15 goals from any of these players

Someone mentioned that there weren't a lot of teams that had a lot of 20 goal scorers. How about another thing to consider? There were 186 15+ goal scorers and 90 20+ goal scorers (as well as 68 25+ goal scorers) So to say only 39 30 goal scorers is rather misleading. Roughly 50 players had roughly 30 goals last year.

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Old
07-24-2009, 07:13 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 View Post
Kopitar: 40 goals
Fro:30 goals
Williams/Smyth/Brown: 20 goals

NOTE - one of these players will get injured, thus you can subtract 10-15 goals from any of these players

Someone mentioned that there weren't a lot of teams that had a lot of 20 goal scorers. How about another thing to consider? There were 186 15+ goal scorers and 90 20+ goal scorers (as well as 68 25+ goal scorers) So to say only 39 30 goal scorers is rather misleading. Roughly 50 players had roughly 30 goals last year.
That is less than 2 per team. So the odds are greatly against the Kings having more than two 30 goal scorers. And the chances of having more than 3 are nearly impossible. Something people are not taking into account is that yes Brown, Williams and Smyth are capable of scoring 30 goals....but that was when they were on their team's respective 1st lines. With Murray's constant line changing there is a good chance that those players will not be on the 1st line enough to get 30+ goals.

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Old
07-24-2009, 09:40 AM
  #31
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I think the whole thing is overstressing the stats.

Sure if we minus the Goals from 10 guys who are gone we lose 45 or whatever goals.
But Hockey is not played by stats.

As example..... Calder potted 8 Goals..... fine.. but the damage he did to the team with blocking the 1st line spot is more than that.
He made the whole scoring on the 1st and on the PP line weak.
Even that he affects the scoring of the other 2 People.
Do the same with Armstrong..........

If you put now Smyth and Williams beside of Kopitar don't you think something will change ??????
Put Purcell as a Center between Brown and Frolov....
don't you think something will change ????

I don't see the lose of these players as a minus.... i see that as a plus.
This year we will have a complete new offense. Beside that i hope Murray will now allow the young guys to play offensive.
Be did a great job by practicing 2 way game but we need offense now.

And now back to topic...

Kopitar 38
Frolov 39
Brown 35
Smyth 29
Williams 28
Purcell 25
Moller 15
Simmonds 18
Handzus 15
Stoll 23
Lewis 2
Richards 5

Makes alone 272 Goals from the offense guys

Doughty 10
Johnson 13
Greene 1
Scuderi 1
O Donnell 0
Drewiske 1

makes another 26


makes all in all 298 Goals what is not that bad. Don't see any reason why we miss the Playoff again

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Old
07-24-2009, 11:23 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post


makes all in all 298 Goals what is not that bad. Don't see any reason why we miss the Playoff again
If the Kings score 298 goals I guarantee that the Kings will make the playoffs. Also if the Kings score that many goals I will personally buy Kurrilino some crack.

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Old
07-24-2009, 11:49 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VEGASKING View Post
KingCanadain1976 predicted four 30 goal scorers and a few picked three. 5 different people have been picked to score 30 goals so far in the thread. Kopitar, Frolov, Brown, Smyth and Williams. PSP may have been exaggerating a bit but I was thinking the same thing he was about people smoking a little too much stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fivehole93 View Post
1Frolov, 2Kopitar, 3Smyth, 4Brown and 5Williams all go over 30. (if healthy all year)
QED

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Old
07-24-2009, 02:06 PM
  #34
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My bad. Scrolled right passed it since they didn't make a huge list. So we're going to score goals for fun and just make the playoffs according to most people. I'm not sure how that works.

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Old
07-24-2009, 03:17 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
That is less than 2 per team. So the odds are greatly against the Kings having more than two 30 goal scorers. And the chances of having more than 3 are nearly impossible. Something people are not taking into account is that yes Brown, Williams and Smyth are capable of scoring 30 goals....but that was when they were on their team's respective 1st lines. With Murray's constant line changing there is a good chance that those players will not be on the 1st line enough to get 30+ goals.
Well you are underrating the impact of teams having higher goal scorers at the expense of their lower goal scorers.

Look at a team like Columbus - they had Rick Nash scoring 40 of their goals, yet only had 2 other 20+ goal scorers.

Eric Staal scored 40 goals, the next best was 4 20+ goal scorers

Louie Eriksson had a similar performance with the Stars.

The point is that there are some teams which don't need a lot of 30 goal scorers due to the virtue of having 40+ goal scorers, there are other teams that don't have 30 goal scorers, leaving plenty of 30 goal scorers for middle of the pack offensively teams like the Kings

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Old
07-24-2009, 03:32 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VEGASKING View Post
My bad. Scrolled right passed it since they didn't make a huge list. So we're going to score goals for fun and just make the playoffs according to most people. I'm not sure how that works.
Exactly

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Old
07-24-2009, 03:34 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 View Post
Kopitar: 40 goals
Fro:30 goals
Williams/Smyth/Brown: 20 goals

NOTE - one of these players will get injured, thus you can subtract 10-15 goals from any of these players

Someone mentioned that there weren't a lot of teams that had a lot of 20 goal scorers. How about another thing to consider? There were 186 15+ goal scorers and 90 20+ goal scorers (as well as 68 25+ goal scorers) So to say only 39 30 goal scorers is rather misleading. Roughly 50 players had roughly 30 goals last year.
No, to say that roughly 50 players had roughly 30 goals is totally misleading. 50 players had 27 goals or more - and 27 goals aren't 30 goals.

Let's try to keep this grounded in facts, not wishes

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Old
07-24-2009, 03:40 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 View Post

The point is that there are some teams which don't need a lot of 30 goal scorers due to the virtue of having 40+ goal scorers, there are other teams that don't have 30 goal scorers, leaving plenty of 30 goal scorers for middle of the pack offensively teams like the Kings
No, there still is less than 2 per team on average......To have more than 2 you would have to be a top offensive team in the league.....which does not describe the current LA Kings.

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Old
07-24-2009, 04:06 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
No, there still is less than 2 per team on average......To have more than 2 you would have to be a top offensive team in the league.....which does not describe the LA Kings of last season.
Fixed

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Old
07-24-2009, 04:12 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
No, to say that roughly 50 players had roughly 30 goals is totally misleading. 50 players had 27 goals or more - and 27 goals aren't 30 goals.

Let's try to keep this grounded in facts, not wishes
Because the difference between 27 goals and 30 goals isn't statistically significant enough to be relevant.

Wishes WTF are you talking about. I'm just saying that to say there are only 39 30 goal scorers is misleading - because I would say that 29 goals is roughly an identical achievement to 30 goals.

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07-24-2009, 04:23 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
Fixed
I hope you are being sarcastic....because adding Williams and Smyth is not going to make the 27th ranked offense all of the sudden a top offensive team.

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07-24-2009, 04:32 PM
  #42
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I know last season there were several teams with NO 30 goal scorers (hell, we were almost one of them). So I'd be curious to know, of the teams that did have atleast one 30 goal scorer, what is the average.

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07-24-2009, 04:38 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
I hope you are being sarcastic....because adding Williams and Smyth is not going to make the 27th ranked offense all of the sudden a top offensive team.
Mildly sarcastic. But seriously, what would it take? Adding two top six forwards along with growth and improvement from everyone else is a pretty darn big push.

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07-24-2009, 04:47 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 View Post
Because the difference between 27 goals and 30 goals isn't statistically significant enough to be relevant.

Wishes WTF are you talking about. I'm just saying that to say there are only 39 30 goal scorers is misleading - because I would say that 29 goals is roughly an identical achievement to 30 goals.
Where do you come up with this stuff? What statistical analysis did you use to determine that the difference isn't significant or did you just make that up?

39 players scoring 30+ goals is an objective fact. "Roughly identical achievement" isn't fact - it's a subjective opinion.

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07-24-2009, 04:53 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
Mildly sarcastic. But seriously, what would it take? Adding two top six forwards along with growth and improvement from everyone else is a pretty darn big push.
I think it will push the Kings to the middle of the pack (the 15th place team in goals for last season was the Ducks with 245....that is 38 more than the Kings scored). To be top offensive team they would have to score 255 or more....which was 48 more goals than last year. I think it will take more than Williams and Smyth to do that.

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07-24-2009, 05:01 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
I think it will push the Kings to the middle of the pack (the 15th place team in goals for last season was the Ducks with 245....that is 38 more than the Kings scored). To be top offensive team they would have to score 255 or more....which was 48 more goals than last year. I think it will take more than Williams and Smyth to do that.
Well as long as we're in the top half offensively and maintain the same defense as last season, those extra 10 or so goals shouldn't be what kills us.

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Old
07-24-2009, 05:03 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
Where do you come up with this stuff? What statistical analysis did you use to determine that the difference isn't significant or did you just make that up?

39 players scoring 30+ goals is an objective fact. "Roughly identical achievement" isn't fact - it's a subjective opinion.
This is the most ridiculous argument I have ever seen.

Do you not understand the concept that 30 goals is a meaningless standard? The fact is that whether they pass a totally arbitrary marker is irrelevant, as long as they have similar production (+/- 2-3 goals), you can say that it was similar goal production.

Is that really a hard concept? Or are you just being difficult like so often

Oh wait, you have to be the board pessimist. As least Captain Ron uses logic and sometimes sees the light.

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07-24-2009, 05:05 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
Well as long as we're in the top half offensively and maintain the same defense as last season, those extra 10 or so goals shouldn't be what kills us.
I did not say it would....I was just making the point the Kings would need to be one of the top offensive teams in order to have 3 or more 30+ goal scorers. I do not necessarily think that the Kings will not be successful without 3 or more 30+ goal scorers. The Penguins only had two 30+ goal scorers and still managed to win the Stanley Cup.

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Old
07-24-2009, 05:09 PM
  #49
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I did not say it would....I was just making the point the Kings would need to be one of the top offensive teams in order to have 3 or more 30+ goal scorers. I do not necessarily think that the Kings will not be successful without 3 or more 30+ goal scorers. The Penguins only had two 30+ goal scorers and still managed to win the Stanley Cup.
True but they didn't have Guerin or Kunitz the whole season. And you can't really make a fair argument when they have arguably two of the three most talent forwards in the game currently.

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07-24-2009, 05:10 PM
  #50
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I know last season there were several teams with NO 30 goal scorers (hell, we were almost one of them). So I'd be curious to know, of the teams that did have atleast one 30 goal scorer, what is the average.
4 - 30 goal scorers
DET PHI

3 - 30 goal scorers
WAS

2 - 30 goal scorers
ANA ATL CGY NJD
OTT PIT SAN STL

1 - 30 goal scorer
BOS BUF CAR CLB DAL FLA
PHX TAM VAN CHI NAS LAK

and 7 teams with no 30 goal scorers

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