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How smart of a player was Mikael Samuelsson

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Old
07-22-2009, 09:24 PM
  #1
Ziostilon
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How smart of a player was Mikael Samuelsson

During his time in Detroit, do you think Mikael Samuelsson had a high hockey sense?

For example: Does he look for the pass, or does the player making the pass have to look for him

Did he become a better and smarter player after playing in Detroit

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07-22-2009, 10:14 PM
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jacK
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i'll preface this by saying i'm in the "thank God he's gone" camp, so here's my jaded view.

he's offensively hockey-sensically retarded. he shoots [into the logo on the goalie's chest] when there's little to no traffic, and he passes when there's 2-4 guys between him and the receiver. he can't/doesn't create opportunities with the puck, but when they're created for him, he makes good at a passable clip.

he's defensively fairly hockey-smart. some of that comes with having to bust his ass on the backcheck after one of his turnovers, but most of it is sound positioning and decent intuition and anticipation. how much of that was the result of our system? dunno, but he's ultimately responsible for pulling it off.

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07-22-2009, 10:38 PM
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Sadekuuro
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jacK has it about right. He's infuriating to watch. Offensively retarded. He's good defensively when skating/in transition, but get him running around in his own zone and it gets ugly. He's also Charmin soft.

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07-22-2009, 10:45 PM
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Ziostilon
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Originally Posted by Sadekuuro View Post
jacK has it about right. He's infuriating to watch. Offensively retarded. He's good defensively when skating/in transition, but get him running around in his own zone and it gets ugly. He's also Charmin soft.
really? i thought he was good in the corners and can really grind it out.

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07-22-2009, 10:53 PM
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He skates like he has a stick up his butt, so that would always make me laugh, but that didn't overcome his complete ineptness in most stages of the game.

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07-22-2009, 11:03 PM
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really? i thought he was good in the corners and can really grind it out.
Not even close. He's a big guy and can protect the puck decently, but he's not a grinder at all. He won't sacrifice his body to make a play generally and he avoids contact. He won't really drive the net either. He's a perimeter player for sure and he's not going to win the majority of battles in the corner. For all his size, too often he plays smaller than Hudler.

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07-22-2009, 11:04 PM
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jacK has it about right. He's infuriating to watch. Offensively retarded. He's good defensively when skating/in transition, but get him running around in his own zone and it gets ugly. He's also Charmin soft.
Yeah, I was shocked when someone reminded me he was bigger than Brad Stuart....

I'll add to jacK's list. He thought he was friggin' Pavel Datsyuk if he somehow ended up with the puck in the neutral zone. He'd try to skate the damn thing in all by himself, ignoring countless passing opportunities. His linemates would park on the blue line waiting for his sorry, slow ass to catch up.... He, of course, would lose the puck, so all that fancy skatin' was for naught.

Ah, Sammy.

He was decent positionally, opportunistic but streaky scorer. He was okay defensively if he didn't think he was supposed to be Datsyuk out there.

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07-22-2009, 11:14 PM
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Ziostilon
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Not even close. He's a big guy and can protect the puck decently, but he's not a grinder at all. He won't sacrifice his body to make a play generally and he avoids contact. He won't really drive the net either. He's a perimeter player for sure and he's not going to win the majority of battles in the corner. For all his size, too often he plays smaller than Hudler.
anywhere close to Alex Tanguay soft and perimeter

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07-22-2009, 11:33 PM
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IMO he was one of the stupidest players on the team.

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07-23-2009, 01:18 AM
  #10
elsonico
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well, to be fair, he did score some big goals, while, on the other had, he made tons of bad decicions out there. As others have said, he tends to take shots that make you want to hit your head against the wall, which happens quite more often than you can handle.

After all, he can shine occasionally, but do not think he is the player that gives your team that little extra every night.

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07-23-2009, 01:46 AM
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He's a decent player, except when he starts thinking too much of himself and plays over his head. His play with the puck is below average, he can stickhandle and pass the puck pretty well, but doesn't seem to know where to pass or stickhandle. Sometimes stickhandles himself into the corner. His shot is very heavy, and he can sometimes snipe corners (that ability seem to come and go, hence he tends to be a streaky scorer). It's best if the decision of when to shoot isn't left up to him (PP point, one timers).

I disagree on him being soft, he dishes some hits, gets his nose dirty, but he isn't going to crush anyone. People complaining that he isn't willing to take a hit to make a play forget that he hardly ever makes a play, period.

Overall, a decent 3rd line player.

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07-23-2009, 02:17 AM
  #12
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Originally Posted by Ziostilon View Post
anywhere close to Alex Tanguay soft and perimeter
Not that bad, but in the same mold. You won't see him crashing the crease for rebounds or flying first into the corners to get a puck. He's the guy who comes late to the scrum and ruffles a few feathers with a facewash or the forecheckers who slows up a bit to make sure the defenseman gets there first so he won't get hit. He's huge, but I'll be damned if I can ever remember him using that size to create a screen or do pretty much anything in the areas where Holmstrom, Cleary, Franzen.....heck even Hudler would routinely go.

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07-23-2009, 06:48 AM
  #13
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During Samuelsson's time here, their was no player on the Wings that made more bad plays and beautiful turnovers than him. He was not afraid to be an agitator but there was no chance that he would drop the gloves, and he never made many big checks. He took a lot of garbage shots, he could be at the worst angle with no sight of twine and he would still fire the puck right at the goalie for an easy save. He rarely looked to make a play.

But...during the playoffs he really stepped it up, I started to appreciate him a bit more and I actually wanted us to re-sign him after 4 years of despising him, go figure. I think he's a decent 3rd liner but if the Canucks plan on playing him in their top 6, they're setting themselves up for a big disappointment.

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07-23-2009, 08:29 AM
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Some of you are way too negative, I thought Sammy was not bad at all here.

Assuming you get the same Sammy that played here, you will get someone who will provide offensive depth on the 2nd or 3rd line and will score about 20-20, he has a really good shot but sometimes he hits nothing but goalie logo, he can be used as a QB option but this should be a last resort because he does make fatal errors back there sometimes, he's not soft, he can be clutch, his puck skills are somewhat underrated, his defense is pretty good, but the biggest knack on him is that he's very streaky, he will go on a 2-3 game tear sometimes by dominating and having you think that he has a shot at scoring 30+ goals and 70-80 points, then he disappears for another 9-10 games.

Overall Sammy is a very good player if you take everything into consideration, but the major question is what Sammy you will get, the pre-Detroit Sammy or the Detroit Sammy? We'll see what happens.

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07-23-2009, 08:40 AM
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Winger98
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I'd consider putting Sammy with the Sedins. They are great at going down low and doing the grunt work, and Sammy's best when he can just set up somewhere out in front and throw pucks at the net. He's strong enough defensively to not hurt you there and he would stand a solid chance of putting up 20+ goals.

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07-23-2009, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I'd consider putting Sammy with the Sedins. They are great at going down low and doing the grunt work, and Sammy's best when he can just set up somewhere out in front and throw pucks at the net. He's strong enough defensively to not hurt you there and he would stand a solid chance of putting up 20+ goals.
I was thinking the same thing -- though it might backfire.
Samuelsson, if utilized mostly as a sniper, could be very successful in that situation. The infuriating problem is he tries to do so much more and becomes a turnover machine.

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07-23-2009, 09:32 AM
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To be fair he did attempt to be pavel datsyuk skating all over and doing it all himself. But.... 1 outta 4 times he was actually pretty successful despite what the haters say. He has good hockey sense just he neglects to use it 3 outta 4 times. He is actually a pretty good playmaker if you can break his shoot shoot shoot mentality. His shot is exceedingly average and his shot choice is incredibly poor.

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07-23-2009, 09:35 AM
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FissionFire
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Samuelsson doesn't have the vision to be a playmaker. He never seems to see the passing lanes or open teammates. He'd always pass when he should shoot and shoot when he should pass. I think that's part of the reason Babcock drilled "shoot shoot shoot" into him because when Samuelsson starts trying to think out there he gets in trouble.

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07-23-2009, 10:04 AM
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I promised not to speak another bad word about Samuelsson after his game 1 SCF in 2008, but to answer the the question, his hockey smarts was the worst part of his game and the reason he was so frustrating to watch (well, that and Babcock's insistence on playing him on the PP point).

Other than that though, he has some decent skills. He can have a great shot when he decides not to aim for the goalie's chest. He was also never a floater and always made the most of the talent that he does have.

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07-23-2009, 10:10 AM
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Just jumping into a thread that's gone exactly how I thought it would. You guys are awesome.

Seriously though OP, Sammy's okay. There's a lot of pent-up distaste for Sammy on this board, so I'd strongly suggest you take most of the hyper-negative palavering of some of the previous posters with a grain (or six) of salt.

He's not going to be fantastic for you guys, and I don't think he's some kind of amazing playmaker, but he's a decent second line-ish forward. For Vancouver, I think he's a very good fit. He'll play the right point on your first or second PP unit (which you guys need), and he's a solid (if nondescript) scoring forward who doesn't have any huge holes in his game, while also not having any atypically developed skills. On a 1-10 scale, he's pretty much 5's and 6's in most columns.

I'm not 100% sure about the Canucks PK rotation, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Sammy get a fairly regular tour of duty with that unit, either.

All in all, Vancouver paid market value for him so I wouldn't feel too screwed by the acquisition were I a fan of that team. I just wouldn't expect him to score 30 or anything for you. Keep the expectations in line with what he makes and you'll be fine.

On the other hand, if you allow expectations to swell far beyond what he's paid (as, for instance, 90% of this board has done over the past couple years), then you'll probably start stabbing small dolls with Samuelsson jersey's on them to alieviate your frustration.

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07-23-2009, 10:14 AM
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Just jumping into a thread that's gone exactly how I thought it would. You guys are awesome.

Seriously though OP, Sammy's okay. There's a lot of pent-up distaste for Sammy on this board, so I'd strongly suggest you take most of the hyper-negative palavering of some of the previous posters with a grain (or six) of salt.

He's not going to be fantastic for you guys, and I don't think he's some kind of amazing playmaker, but he's a decent second line-ish forward. For Vancouver, I think he's a very good fit. He'll play the right point on your first or second PP unit (which you guys need), and he's a solid (if nondescript) scoring forward who doesn't have any huge holes in his game, while also not having any atypically developed skills. On a 1-10 scale, he's pretty much 5's and 6's in most columns.

I'm not 100% sure about the Canucks PK rotation, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Sammy get a fairly regular tour of duty with that unit, either.

All in all, Vancouver paid market value for him so I wouldn't feel too screwed by the acquisition were I a fan of that team. I just wouldn't expect him to score 30 or anything for you. Keep the expectations in line with what he makes and you'll be fine.

On the other hand, if you allow expectations to swell far beyond what he's paid (as, for instance, 90% of this board has done over the past couple years), then you'll probably start stabbing small dolls with Samuelsson jersey's on them to alieviate your frustration.
Sammy, in Detroit, on the third line and getting paid <$2 MM was probably palatable. Sammy in our top six and getting paid >$2 MM was not.

He can be penciled in for 15-20G in an average season. He's not a huge liability on the ice. That's what you get with Sammy.

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Old
07-23-2009, 10:15 AM
  #22
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Sammy, had decent skills, but not the sense as to when to use them (on both sides of the ice).
He was a valuable player making $1,2M, because he's a decent third liner who can even pose as a second liner when there are injuries.

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07-23-2009, 10:16 AM
  #23
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he brings his best game in the playoffs. thats all that really matters

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07-23-2009, 12:35 PM
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detredWINgs
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He's a decent player, except when he starts thinking too much of himself and plays over his head. His play with the puck is below average, he can stickhandle and pass the puck pretty well, but doesn't seem to know where to pass or stickhandle. Sometimes stickhandles himself into the corner. His shot is very heavy, and he can sometimes snipe corners (that ability seem to come and go, hence he tends to be a streaky scorer). It's best if the decision of when to shoot isn't left up to him (PP point, one timers).

I disagree on him being soft, he dishes some hits, gets his nose dirty, but he isn't going to crush anyone. People complaining that he isn't willing to take a hit to make a play forget that he hardly ever makes a play, period.

Overall, a decent 3rd line player.
Statements like this always crack me up. A "decent" third line player? Yeah. Look around the league and see how many players have 3rd liners who can score 20-20. I'd bet solid money that there aren't 5 teams in this league that their 7th forward scoring 40+ points.

Sammy is a phenomenal 3rd line player, and a weak 2nd line player.

And the "charmin soft" accusation as hyperbole if I ever saw it. I guess averaging 83 hits in the past 2 seasons makes you soft.

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07-23-2009, 12:48 PM
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Statements like this always crack me up. A "decent" third line player? Yeah. Look around the league and see how many players have 3rd liners who can score 20-20. I'd bet solid money that there aren't 5 teams in this league that their 7th forward scoring 40+ points.

Sammy is a phenomenal 3rd line player, and a weak 2nd line player.

And the "charmin soft" accusation as hyperbole if I ever saw it. I guess averaging 83 hits in the past 2 seasons makes you soft.
Those weren't hits. They were Sammy love taps...

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