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07-27-2009, 11:32 AM
  #1
rigger
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Trade thoughts with Edmonton

Hey Guys,

I'll preface my post with the statement that I am an Oilers fan. Im a big philly fan as well but don't get to see enough of you guys being that Im in the west and I don't get a lot of your games televised out here.

Anyway, on to my post.

Philly has taken on a bit of salary recently with your big defensive acquisition and the success of your draft picks have made you pay them a decent salary. Briere was a big name that came in but by the sounds of it isn't going to be easy to trade due to health reasons.

I was scanning your roster this morning and looked at Gagne, he's got one more year at 5.25 then he will likely be looking for 7+ per season. Right now it seems unlikely that the Philly management would be able or willing to do that. Also, you kinda cleared out the cupboards in the Pronger trade and don't have as many prospects as you probably want, but you do have the d man you want now.

My proposal would to be fill the gap that Lupul left and restock the prospect depth. Here's my offer.

Sign and trade. Extend Gagne for 5 years at 6.5 or 7 per year with full understanding he's going to be playing in Edmonton.

Smid - Replaces Sbisa
Eberle - Replaces a first round pick but he's closer to NHL ready
Nilsson - Replaces Lupul's minutes
1st in 2011 - Replaces the 2011 pick you gave to get Pronger

Thoughts?

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07-27-2009, 11:33 AM
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IrishSniper87
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Originally Posted by rigger View Post
Hey Guys,

I'll preface my post with the statement that I am an Oilers fan. Im a big philly fan as well but don't get to see enough of you guys being that Im in the west and I don't get a lot of your games televised out here.

Anyway, on to my post.

Philly has taken on a bit of salary recently with your big defensive acquisition and the success of your draft picks have made you pay them a decent salary. Briere was a big name that came in but by the sounds of it isn't going to be easy to trade due to health reasons.

I was scanning your roster this morning and looked at Gagner, he's got one more year at 5.25 then he will likely be looking for 7+ per season. Right now it seems unlikely that the Philly management would be able or willing to do that. Also, you kinda cleared out the cupboards in the Pronger trade and don't have as many prospects as you probably want, but you do have the d man you want now.

My proposal would to be fill the gap that Lupul left and restock the prospect depth. Here's my offer.

Sign and trade. Extend Gagne for 5 years at 6.5 or 7 per year with full understanding he's going to be playing in Edmonton.

Smid - Replaces Sbisa
Eberle - Replaces a first round pick but he's closer to NHL ready
Nilsson - Replaces Lupul's minutes
1st in 2011 - Replaces the 2011 pick you gave to get Pronger

Thoughts?
First of all, Gagne is signed for 2 more seasons at $5.25, so he can't be extended, yet.

Second, he would have to waive his NTC to go, and that is a big problem.

Third, the Flyers don't need to move salary this season, and I think they try to win it all this season.

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07-27-2009, 11:37 AM
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Gagne will expire on that deal here in Philly...or be extended to stay. There's absolutely no reason to deal a player of his caliber and style (strong two-way wing) when you're trying to compete for Cups. Those are the type of players you need on your team.

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07-27-2009, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
First of all, Gagne is signed for 2 more seasons at $5.25, so he can't be extended, yet.

Second, he would have to waive his NTC to go, and that is a big problem.

Third, the Flyers don't need to move salary this season, and I think they try to win it all this season.
That was an oversite of mine, that kind of nixes the whole thing.

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07-27-2009, 11:39 AM
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DUHockey9
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I also don't see gagne getting 7mill...to be honest I don't see him getting 6 either. He makes what he should be makig IMO.

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07-27-2009, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by rigger View Post
That was an oversite of mine, that kind of nixes the whole thing.
No problem man, however, in 2 years, when Gagne, Carter, and Giroux are all up, we sure will be losing someone, as Giroux raise and Carter's raise will spell the end of one of our top 6 forwards.

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07-27-2009, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I also don't see gagne getting 7mill...to be honest I don't see him getting 6 either. He makes what he should be makig IMO.
The injury killed him...however, if he was coming into that contract rocking consistent 40+ goal seasons...he absolutely would have been in line for that contract. Who knows what the next couple of years will bring, but you're talking about an excellent defensive player that has shown the ability to score 40+ goals in the NHL...how many of them are out there?

That being said, I think Gagne has pretty close ties to the region at this point. By the time he's ready to talk next contract he will have been here for 10+ years. I could see him not breaking the bank on that deal.

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07-27-2009, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigger View Post
Sign and trade. Extend Gagne for 5 years at 6.5 or 7 per year with full understanding he's going to be playing in Edmonton.

Smid - Replaces Sbisa
Eberle - Replaces a first round pick but he's closer to NHL ready
Nilsson - Replaces Lupul's minutes
1st in 2011 - Replaces the 2011 pick you gave to get Pronger

Thoughts?
It'd be something to consider. The thing is that the Flyers still have their 2011 first round pick. We gave Anaheim our '09 and '10 first round choices.

Honestly, and I'm probably in the minority here, I think the deal isn't too bad at all.

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07-27-2009, 11:47 AM
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First....nice avatar.

That being said , I'd expect Gagne to sign a similar deal to the one he currently has. That wont happen though if Giroux continues to exceed like he has been. I also agree that one of Giroux, Carter, or Gagne might not be here. Carter's raise depends on how he does the next 2 seasons. If he hits the 40-45 goal mark again, I dont see him coming back. He would be asking for more then 6 mil or so salary.

Personally... I dont want to think about it until the time comes lol. We still have next year where Coburn and other players need a raise.

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07-27-2009, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
First....nice avatar.

That being said , I'd expect Gagne to sign a similar deal to the one he currently has. That wont happen though if Giroux continues to exceed like he has been. I also agree that one of Giroux, Carter, or Gagne might not be here. Carter's raise depends on how he does the next 2 seasons. If he hits the 40-45 goal mark again, I dont see him coming back. He would be asking for more then 6 mil or so salary.

Personally... I dont want to think about it until the time comes lol. We still have next year where Coburn and other players need a raise.
They might let Gagne walk. Even if they give Carter a long fat contract to help manage his cap hit, Giroux's raise alone will be too much.

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07-27-2009, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
It'd be something to consider. The thing is that the Flyers still have their 2011 first round pick. We gave Anaheim our '09 and '10 first round choices.

Honestly, and I'm probably in the minority here, I think the deal isn't too bad at all.
It's not a bad offer at all, but trading away your first line winger isn't exactly a move you make if you're playing for "now."

You trade away your first round picks.

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07-27-2009, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
That being said, I think Gagne has pretty close ties to the region at this point. By the time he's ready to talk next contract he will have been here for 10+ years. I could see him not breaking the bank on that deal.
I think we might try and give him a long deal like so many others are getting now. Something like 10 years 45 million, front loaded. He'll be like 31 or 32 when he need a new deal right? So he would be able to retire and his cap hit would disappear. It would give us an excellent player with a friendly cap hit for what he brings. I think that he might take a deal like that, maybe he would 5 mill a year instead of 4.5 but I can see him being easy to negotiate with and wanting to take a deal that would allow us to keep Giroux and Carter and remain competitive.

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07-27-2009, 11:58 AM
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I think we might try and give him a long deal like so many others are getting now. Something like 10 years 45 million, front loaded. He'll be like 31 or 32 when he need a new deal right? So he would be able to retire and his cap hit would disappear. It would give us an excellent player with a friendly cap hit for what he brings. I think that he might take a deal like that, maybe he would 5 mill a year instead of 4.5 but I can see him being easy to negotiate with and wanting to take a deal that would allow us to keep Giroux and Carter and remain competitive.
That's interesting, but we can wait on that.

It would also be front loaded, no doubt, haha.

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07-27-2009, 11:58 AM
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Yeah Gagne wont go anywhere, at least until he is a UFA.

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07-27-2009, 12:00 PM
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It's not a bad offer at all, but trading away your first line winger isn't exactly a move you make if you're playing for "now."

You trade away your first round picks.
But, if the team is in a position where it's possible that two players could potentially walk, then I think it's something you have to consider. It's called building on the fly. Anaheim did an incredible job of that this past summer with the Pronger trade. You deal from a position of strength - it's clear the position of strength from the Flyers is forward. A Gagne deal means freeing up money to re-up Carter and Giroux.

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07-27-2009, 12:07 PM
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But, if the team is in a position where it's possible that two players could potentially walk, then I think it's something you have to consider. It's called building on the fly. Anaheim did an incredible job of that this past summer with the Pronger trade. You deal from a position of strength - it's clear the position of strength from the Flyers is forward. A Gagne deal means freeing up money to re-up Carter and Giroux.
If you're trying to win NOW...then you suck it up and risk them walking. Gagne does not block money to Carter or Giroux, because they all expire at the same time. If you want to re-sign those guys over Gagne...you do, and then see if you have money left for Gagne. Possibly trading him for some change prior to July 1st (ala Jay-Bo). However, you're not worried about him walking if he's going to walk after you win a Stanley Cup with him on your roster.

Anaheim couldn't afford Pronger...if they could, they would have held onto him.

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07-27-2009, 12:11 PM
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I was scanning your roster this morning and looked at Gagne, he's got one more year at 5.25 then he will likely be looking for 7+ per season.
I dont see why Gagne would resign for more than hes making right now. Hes said multiple times that he wants to stay here, hes been so long that he spends most of summers here... Rarely stays in Quebec for very long as far as I know.

He knows of the cap situation like anyone else... I doubt hed ask for more than what Richards is making.

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07-27-2009, 12:17 PM
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**** trading Gagne. The guy is a Flyer and has been his whole career...I don't think we'll lowball him to the point where he walks out, but I'd put money on him taking a hometown discount.

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07-27-2009, 12:23 PM
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I dont see why Gagne would resign for more than hes making right now. Hes said multiple times that he wants to stay here, hes been so long that he spends most of summers here... Rarely stays in Quebec for very long as far as I know.

He knows of the cap situation like anyone else... I doubt hed ask for more than what Richards is making.
I know but if he averages 40 goals and 40 assists in the next 2 seasons and maintains his high level of defensive play, he will be offered Gaborik money.

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07-27-2009, 12:24 PM
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Gagne will retire a flyer. The flyers stuck by him through his concussion woes they will stick by him when he hits the UFA stage. I'm sure i'm not alone in that i would love to see gagne finish out his days here.

Pretty sure he wouldn't mind staying at philly for 5.5 mil a season either.

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07-27-2009, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
No problem man, however, in 2 years, when Gagne, Carter, and Giroux are all up, we sure will be losing someone, as Giroux raise and Carter's raise will spell the end of one of our top 6 forwards.
by then Matt Carle will have 1 more year left on his contract if he isnt dealt by then.
Of course with Coburn and Parent up next year and potentially having to deal with Emery as well its going to be interesting how Holmgren deals with all this if he wont or refuses to deal Carle.

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07-27-2009, 12:26 PM
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**** trading Gagne. The guy is a Flyer and has been his whole career...I don't think we'll lowball him to the point where he walks out, but I'd put money on him taking a hometown discount.
Oh please. You'd think Gagne was Gretzky from all the talk on here. The guy's a good player, but he's replaceable. Whether people want to admit it or not is another thing.......

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07-27-2009, 12:28 PM
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Oh please. You'd think Gagne was Gretzky from all the talk on here. The guy's a good player, but he's replaceable. Whether people want to admit it or not is another thing.......
Not just that, I think he's a great player but if you can re-sign Gagne but you have to lose Carter and Coburn for it, is it worth it?

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07-27-2009, 12:29 PM
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Oh please. You'd think Gagne was Gretzky from all the talk on here. The guy's a good player, but he's replaceable. Whether people want to admit it or not is another thing.......
Sure, he's replaceable. We don't have a single "non-replaceable" (outside of maybe Pronger, he's pretty unique) player on our roster (none of our players are generational talent)...but how easy are they to replace?

How many wings play in this league that are stellar defensively and can provide you with 35+ goal pop? There are certainly plenty of guys that can provide strong defense on the wing...and plenty of guys that can score goals (though, 35+ guys are rarer than you think, only 15 guys hit 35 last year)...very few combine those two things.

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07-27-2009, 12:30 PM
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Not just that, I think he's a great player but if you can re-sign Gagne but you have to lose Carter and Coburn for it, is it worth it?
No, but you don't trade him away when you're trying to compete for a cup either.

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