HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Anaheim Ducks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Petteri Nokelainen re-signs with Anaheim (for 2010-2011 season)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-26-2009, 10:54 PM
  #26
Duck Off
HF needs an App
 
Duck Off's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Country: United States
Posts: 10,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenabnrmal View Post
Half-way through a breakout season, an agent would have to be mental to sign for another year at that little a raise. I really don't see how one year at less than a millon dollars is a "big overpayment". I also don't see how it's "dumb" to sign it now as opposed to mid-way through. Less of a gamble, perhaps, but you're not gambling much to begin with. A slight difference in strategy from what you hold, but dumb seems pretty strong.

The sense I have from a lot of the threads is that you put a lot of stock in filing players into specific roles that they have proven to be able to fill (I'm taking most of this from the above comment, and on the lines thread). My guess is that Murray is focused more on increasing the overall talent and ability level of the team, and letting the players play themselves into specific roles. Niether Nokeleinin or Christiensen have a specific role right now, but Murray thinks that they have the abilty to play themselves into a role that will make their signings look like an underpayment. I think it's the game that GM's have to play now with the cap, trying to have a little vision and lock in bargains before they prove it.

I feel good about the Nokelinein gamble, not so much about the Christiensen one, but the worst-case senario in either situation won't be very hard to mop up.
Good post. I would say that I do look at what role a player is going to have on the team, but that's primarily because of the way I watched the Ducks last year. Last year was the first time I've been able to watch 95% of the games, thanks to center ice, and after watching all of last season, it's very evident that Carlyle likes certain players to have a role on the team. So yes I guess your assessment is not far off, but I think it's more of where I think they fit, rather than what their role is.

The primary example is the resigning of EC. He's got potential, but hasn't shown enough to be resigned IMO. I think Murray resigned him for two reasons: To try and prove he didn't make a bad trade, and to try and add more scoring ability to the team. I wouldn't call signing EC adding more talent though personally. Murray has made it known that he wants better offensive output from the club. He didn't go replace Moen and R.Niedermayer with other defensive forwards that Carlyle likes, he's trying to bring more offense. I think he's trying to get RC to use three scoring lines. I think that's a big reason why he brought EC back, and hasn't traded Ebbett yet.

As far as Nokke being resigned. Erincut brings up a good point that I didn't think of... yes... Erincut...

I didn't understand the signing because IMO he was brought in to replace Pahlsson at the time we traded for him. When Marchant was resigned I thought he had lost his primary position on the team. I can understand the Ducks using him in the spot once Marchant leaves, but still 950k is too much. Nokke hasn't done anything to deserve that contract. He had a stretch of what 5 games where he played great? Yes, I know he got hurt, but still he hasn't show much offensively, and his defense hasn't earned him a contract of near 1 million Imo.

So I guess the signing makes sense, but I still think it's too much for a guy that hasn't really done much in his career.

Duck Off is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2009, 12:24 AM
  #27
snarktacular
Moderator
Ducks tank is on!
 
snarktacular's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,636
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go_Krog View Post
its not much of an overpayment considering his QO is $935k. and he's not Christensen level garbage where he'd accept under QO money.
But that was my point. The 8whatever k he was making last year was already an overpayment. The 950 only makes sense in relation to that already overpayment.

But it isn't that much of a gamble as it is only 1 year, and isn't that much extra. So if he does break out this season (it doesn't even have to be a really big breakout, just establishing consistency with what he's already shown in the NHL), then they could cover the bet.

snarktacular is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2009, 01:00 AM
  #28
Duck Off
HF needs an App
 
Duck Off's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Country: United States
Posts: 10,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
But that was my point. The 8whatever k he was making last year was already an overpayment. The 950 only makes sense in relation to that already overpayment.
But it isn't that much of a gamble as it is only 1 year, and isn't that much extra. So if he does break out this season (it doesn't even have to be a really big breakout, just establishing consistency with what he's already shown in the NHL), then they could cover the bet.
Agreed

Duck Off is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2009, 01:57 AM
  #29
Dirk316
Registered User
 
Dirk316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 5,153
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chone View Post
i don't think he's going to have a breakout year, but he's a really good checking forward. better than he's gotten credit for. i'd take him over captain hook and penalty box moen without hesitation. maybe dirk can come in here and tell me again how ridiculous it is to think he's better than moen. moen was ****ing terrible since the cup win. sammy was the only good thing about that line over the last two seasons. . is at least a really good step in the right direction to rebuilding a solid checking line.
Typical OC bandwagon fan

This poster is smarter and knows more than SJ's gm that gave up a top prospect to get Moen and this poster know more than Montreal's gm who gave Moen a 3 yr deal paying him 1.5million because other teams were interested as well. Moen obviously sucks and nokelainen who has proven nothing in his entire NHL career is better You are a complete idiot and im giving it 12 month into the season because you are saying how much Pronger sucked as well

Dirk316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2009, 02:06 AM
  #30
jax00
DangleSnipe&Celly
 
jax00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Anaslime
Country: United States
Posts: 8,566
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk316 View Post
Typical OC bandwagon fan

This poster is smarter and knows more than SJ's gm that gave up a top prospect to get Moen and this poster know more than Montreal's gm who gave Moen a 3 yr deal paying him 1.5million because other teams were interested as well. Moen obviously sucks and nokelainen who has proven nothing in his entire NHL career is better You are a complete idiot and im giving it 12 month into the season because you are saying how much Pronger sucked as well
Dirk Logic
Toughness>Everything Else

jax00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2009, 02:29 AM
  #31
Duck Off
HF needs an App
 
Duck Off's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Country: United States
Posts: 10,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk316 View Post
Typical OC bandwagon fan

This poster is smarter and knows more than SJ's gm that gave up a top prospect to get Moen and this poster know more than Montreal's gm who gave Moen a 3 yr deal paying him 1.5million because other teams were interested as well. Moen obviously sucks and nokelainen who has proven nothing in his entire NHL career is better You are a complete idiot and im giving it 12 month into the season because you are saying how much Pronger sucked as well
You know I don't like this signing either, but you take **** too far man. Everyone knows how much you value toughness, and I agree with you to an extent. However, posts like this make you look like a complete joke. Do yourself a favor and quit posting **** like this. I completely agree that Nokke hasn't done anything to warrant his contract, but there's certain ways to handle things.

Duck Off is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2009, 04:36 AM
  #32
Talentless Practise*
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,244
vCash: 500
Chone is right by the way. Maybe not in that Nokie is better than Moen, but that Moen did not have a good season before being traded. Infact, he was having an awful season and was consistently among the three worst Ducks players on the ice.

Talentless Practise* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2009, 10:30 AM
  #33
mmbt
Cheeky Monkey
 
mmbt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 9,273
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
Chone is right by the way. Maybe not in that Nokie is better than Moen, but that Moen did not have a good season before being traded. Infact, he was having an awful season and was consistently among the three worst Ducks players on the ice.
I agree, and I can't recall Moen having so much as a particularly great shift in the series against us. I do sort of agree with Dirk that we need another Moen type (hopefully Brown will progress in his 2nd year with us much like Moen did), but Moen isn't even a Moen type anymore. And let's be honest, Moen at his old cheap price was great to have, but at his current price not so much.

I'm pretty sure SJ would admit that that trade was a mistake for them. And I think the Habs aren't going to be any more impressed with him, especially at that dollar figure.

I can't even remember the last time Moen hit anyone like this:

mmbt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2009, 10:47 AM
  #34
Snap Wilson
Registered User
 
Snap Wilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,838
vCash: 500
I looked for him but didn't really notice him that much in the playoffs. I suspect, like Christensen, this is one of those instances where Murray and/or Carlyle are seeing something, or at least think they're seeing something, that I don't. I'm willing to agree with the scouting report that Petteri is an effective, hard-working defensive forward, and one extra year at $950k won't kill the team.

I agree that Moen was awful last year, and yes, he was on the receiving end of more hits than he was dishing them out in the first round, but it's hard to gauge a player's ability in a year in which he got hurt. In any case, the Ducks can't afford to spend $1.5 million on third line players now.

Snap Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2009, 01:54 PM
  #35
KeepItDeep
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 82
vCash: 500
Bob Murray expressed a lot of confidence in this guy's abilities when he traded for him, so I'm not surprised to see Murph make a modest investment in him.

At least this isn't like Bob Gainey giving Travis Moen a 64% raise, or Doug Wilson giving Kent Creamed Corn Husk-ins a freaking 162% raise.

We don't have much to bitich about here in my estimation.

KeepItDeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2009, 05:41 PM
  #36
Cone
Registered User
 
Cone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Irvine, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,227
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Cone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk316 View Post
Typical OC bandwagon fan

This poster is smarter and knows more than SJ's gm that gave up a top prospect to get Moen and this poster know more than Montreal's gm who gave Moen a 3 yr deal paying him 1.5million because other teams were interested as well. Moen obviously sucks and nokelainen who has proven nothing in his entire NHL career is better You are a complete idiot and im giving it 12 month into the season because you are saying how much Pronger sucked as well
Look, Moen was a big, tough, forechecking 3rd-line-farm-boy-grinder who exemplified the identity of that Cup-winning team and I'll always appreciate him for that. I wish I never had to think of Moen in a different way than that of his 06-07 form, but the truth is he hasn't been that good since those playoffs and it was smart of Murray to capitalize on his reputation even while Moen was failing to live up to that reputation. If you compare Nokelainen to that ideal (Stanley Cup-winning Moen), sure he's going to lose, but judging from what we've seen of Moen the last two years I don't see why you would want to bet on him over Nokelainen or any other similarly competent 3rd liner who is putting forth more effort on a nightly basis. From where I'm standing even if Moen turns it around, these two players still have similar value.


Last edited by Cone: 07-27-2009 at 05:49 PM.
Cone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2009, 06:14 PM
  #37
c4rcy
Power lvls over 9000
 
c4rcy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: OC, California
Country: United States
Posts: 2,428
vCash: 500
Also keep in mind...we paid Rob N $2M last year to do turn over the puck a lot. That is far more overpayment than paying someone $0.1M more than his previous year's salary. He still has potential, hasn't completely rebounded from his injury, and in all honesty won't have to suffer and pick up Rob's slack on that line anymore.

c4rcy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2009, 06:25 PM
  #38
Elvs
Registered User
 
Elvs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pitea
Country: Sweden
Posts: 6,798
vCash: 708
Nokelainen may not be big, just like the rest of our current potential checking line forwards, except for Brown... But tbh, for his small stature, Nokelainen is tough as nails.

Elvs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2009, 07:05 PM
  #39
Dirk316
Registered User
 
Dirk316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 5,153
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DucksRule00 View Post
Dirk Logic
Toughness>Everything Else
Well in the hell in the post you quoted did i mention toughness?
keep adding nothing

Dirk316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2009, 07:07 PM
  #40
Dirk316
Registered User
 
Dirk316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 5,153
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
You know I don't like this signing either, but you take **** too far man. Everyone knows how much you value toughness, and I agree with you to an extent. However, posts like this make you look like a complete joke. Do yourself a favor and quit posting **** like this. I completely agree that Nokke hasn't done anything to warrant his contract, but there's certain ways to handle things.
I didnt say i didnt like the signing or even dislike Nokke the price seem a little questionable though and i agree maybe in this instance maybe i took it too far

Dirk316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2009, 07:12 PM
  #41
Dirk316
Registered User
 
Dirk316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 5,153
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
Chone is right by the way. Maybe not in that Nokie is better than Moen, but that Moen did not have a good season before being traded. Infact, he was having an awful season and was consistently among the three worst Ducks players on the ice.
Moen wasnt having a career season but in no way did he suck, he was playing without his center(Sami injured/sucking) and Rob was having his worst season as a Duck defensively so now Moen gets all this unnecessary hate he was basically a 1 man line.
The rumors were that 5 other teams were interested in Moen not bad for a player that "Sucks"

Dirk316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2009, 07:18 PM
  #42
Dirk316
Registered User
 
Dirk316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 5,153
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chone View Post
Look, Moen was a big, tough, forechecking 3rd-line-farm-boy-grinder who exemplified the identity of that Cup-winning team and I'll always appreciate him for that. I wish I never had to think of Moen in a different way than that of his 06-07 form, but the truth is he hasn't been that good since those playoffs and it was smart of Murray to capitalize on his reputation even while Moen was failing to live up to that reputation. If you compare Nokelainen to that ideal (Stanley Cup-winning Moen), sure he's going to lose, but judging from what we've seen of Moen the last two years I don't see why you would want to bet on him over Nokelainen or any other similarly competent 3rd liner who is putting forth more effort on a nightly basis. From where I'm standing even if Moen turns it around, these two players still have similar value.

I went overboard calling you an idiot but c'mon man, i explained already in another post why Moen was not having his best year (no line-mates) but to say flat out Nokke is better than Moen in any way is just flat out wrong. Again Moen matches up against power forwards, skates better, hits, fights and scores some clutch goals. What has Nok ever done for you to warrant saying Nok is better than Moen really thats taking homerism to another lever. But yes we couldnt afford the contract Moen got so im ready to move on and hope Bodie turns out to be the next Moen like Murray seems to think so

Dirk316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2009, 07:23 PM
  #43
Dirk316
Registered User
 
Dirk316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, Ca
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 5,153
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbt View Post
I agree, and I can't recall Moen having so much as a particularly great shift in the series against us. I do sort of agree with Dirk that we need another Moen type (hopefully Brown will progress in his 2nd year with us much like Moen did), but Moen isn't even a Moen type anymore. And let's be honest, Moen at his old cheap price was great to have, but at his current price not so much.

I'm pretty sure SJ would admit that that trade was a mistake for them. And I think the Habs aren't going to be any more impressed with him, especially at that dollar figure.

I can't even remember the last time Moen hit anyone like this:

turns his back to throw a hit instead of using his shoulders and really creaming the player than hug instead of fight a visor midget in Chris Drury? Moen > That
Imo the dollar figures were ok for Moen but just not for this team unfortunately

Im sure it was weird for Moen to be playing the Ducks so its maybe understandable that he wasnt so solid but most the Sharks team sucked. Im hoping Brown or Bodie are put on the checking line to add the size/physical dimension the checking line lacked. It was awful seeing Miller there getting manhandled by everyone

Dirk316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2009, 10:22 PM
  #44
Duck Off
HF needs an App
 
Duck Off's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Country: United States
Posts: 10,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk316 View Post
I didnt say i didnt like the signing or even dislike Nokke the price seem a little questionable though and i agree maybe in this instance maybe i took it too far
I guess I just assumed that you didn't like the signing. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

Duck Off is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2009, 11:20 PM
  #45
mmbt
Cheeky Monkey
 
mmbt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 9,273
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk316 View Post
turns his back to throw a hit instead of using his shoulders
I thought he did catch him with the shoulder. That's a good hit, IMO.

Quote:
and really creaming the player than hug instead of fight a visor midget in Chris Drury? Moen > That
Well he's definitely no fighter, but if you look at him more as a replacement for R-Nieds than for Moen, it's probably an upgrade.

Quote:
Im sure it was weird for Moen to be playing the Ducks so its maybe understandable that he wasnt so solid but most the Sharks team sucked. Im hoping Brown or Bodie are put on the checking line to add the size/physical dimension the checking line lacked. It was awful seeing Miller there getting manhandled by everyone
Yeah, I've really got no use for Miller. It's not even his getting outmuscled ... it's that too many times he didn't even battle all that hard. Or he'd pass up hits that had to be made. Okay for an exceptional scorer, but for a non-scorer that's unacceptable.

I'd be pretty okay with Nokelainen-Marchant-Brown ... see how that works out. If it doesn't quite gel, I'm sure Murray can find us a gritty checker during the season.

I really do think Brown is going to pleasantly surprise us this coming season. Sure, his hands aren't that great, but I like his skating better than Moen's and he's pretty hard nosed.

mmbt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2009, 12:36 AM
  #46
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
 
Hockey Duckie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: southern cal
Posts: 2,860
vCash: 500
Nokes adds speed. Todd Marchant is a prime example of what I see Nokes being similar too... small and speedy, but a lot of determination! And speed helps in the PK as Brown helped prove last season. Or would you rather spend another $2mm for Rob?

Hockey Duckie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:22 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.