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Jim Coleman Conference Finals: (1) Vancouver Millionaires vs. (2) Guelph Platers

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Old
05-06-2016, 12:28 PM
  #1
Hawkey Town 18
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Jim Coleman Conference Finals: (1) Vancouver Millionaires vs. (2) Guelph Platers

Vancouver Millionares

1915 Stanley Cup Champions
Home Rink: Denman Arena (1911)
Head Coach: Tommy Ivan

Anatoli Firsov - Alex Delvecchio (C) - Jaromir Jagr (A)
Cy Denneny - Frank Fredrickson - Theoren Fleury
Adam Graves - Walt Tkaczuk - Ed Westfall
Simon Gagne - Bobby Holik - John Pie McKenzie

King Clancy (A) - Tom Johnson
'Moose' Vasko - Bullet Joe Simpson
Bobby Rowe - Mathieu Schneider

Bill Durnan
George Hainsworth

Spares: Doug Weight C, Andrei Markov D, Jim Pappin RW, Mattias Ohlund D,

1st unit PP:

Denneny - Delvecchio - Jagr
Simpson - Clancy

2nd unit PP:

Firsov - Fredrickson - Fleury
T.Johnson - Schneider

Alternates: Tkaczuk

1st unit PK:

Tkaczuk - Westfall
T.Johnson - Vasko

2nd unit PK:

Delvecchio - Firsov
Clancy - Rowe

Alternates: Holik - Fleury


vs.




Guelph Platers
1986 Memorial Cup Champions

Home Rink: Guelph Memorial Gardens (1948)
GM: BraveCanadian

Coaches: Pete Green, Ken Hitchcock
Captain: Jarome Iginla
Alternates: Johnny Gottselig, Duncan Keith

Luc Robitaille - Frank Nighbor - Jarome Iginla
Harry Watson-Mickey Mackay-Zigmund Palffy
Johnny Gottselig-Anze Kopitar-Gordie Drillion
Zach Parise-Fred Stanfield-Bruce MacGregor

Duncan Keith-Chris Chelios
Carl Brewer-Art Duncan
Gennady Tsygankov-Rob Ramage

Bernie Parent
Miikka Kiprusoff


Reserves

Troy Murray, Robyn Regehr, Ray Whitney

Powerplay:
PP1: Luc Robitaille-Mickey Mackay-Gordie Drillion-Fred Stanfield-Art Duncan
PP2: Zigmund Palffy-Frank Nighbor-Jarome Iginla-Duncan Keith-Chris Chelios

Penalty Kill:
PK1: Frank Nighbor-Johnny Gottselig-Duncan Keith-Chris Chelios
PK2: Bruce MacGregor-Anze Kopitar-Carl Brewer-Rob Ramage



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Old
05-06-2016, 12:55 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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What a contrast of team building strategies here.

Massive blueline advantage to Guelph. Massive Top 6 forwards advantage to Vancouver.

Goalies seem pretty close. Neither team has a particularly outstanding leadership group.

Nighbor/Chelios/Keith vs Firsov-Delvecchio-Jagr might be key to the series.

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Old
05-06-2016, 01:38 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
What a contrast of team building strategies here.

Massive blueline advantage to Guelph. Massive Top 6 forwards advantage to Vancouver.

Goalies seem pretty close. Neither team has a particularly outstanding leadership group.

Nighbor/Chelios/Keith vs Firsov-Delvecchio-Jagr might be key to the series.
They definitely have a very strong top 6 offensively but, as I mentioned in another series, Vancouver's bottom 6 are all pluggers.

I think apart from the big key to the series you mentioned, that our 3rd line will be important again just like it was last series.

Our offense isn't as strong up front as some other teams but our depth is better.. in this case very much so better.

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05-06-2016, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Goalies seem pretty close. Neither team has a particularly outstanding leadership group.
Vancouver has a very clear goaltending advantage. Are you not taking backups into account what so ever?

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05-06-2016, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
They definitely have a very strong top 6 offensively but, as I mentioned in another series, Vancouver's bottom 6 are all pluggers.

I think apart from the big key to the series you mentioned, that our 3rd line will be important again just like it was last series.

Our offense isn't as strong up front as some other teams but our depth is better.. in this case very much so better.
Try and stop our top 6 first...

''Pluggers'' is kind of an offensive term as well. It won't be easy for the Robitaille's and Palffy's against the tight physical checking from my bottom 6.

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05-06-2016, 06:50 PM
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Johnny Engine
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Try and stop our top 6 first...

''Pluggers'' is kind of an offensive term as well. It won't be easy for the Robitaille's and Palffy's against the tight physical checking from my bottom 6.
I tend to read that word as a player who has no special skills, but gets by on elbow grease or balls-out skating. Walt Tkaczuk is not a plugger of any kind. Westfall and Holik are specialists of varying utility. The other three might be pluggers at this level, though I'm a big fan of Gagne as a versatile winger.

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Old
05-07-2016, 03:27 AM
  #7
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These are a couple of very strong teams, and I expect this to be a close-run series one way or the other. I think the strength of each team is fairly obvious, so I'm going to focus more on the weaknesses. Please don't mistake this as general criticism, as I think both of these squads are quite well constructed:

1) Vancouver's bottom-4 defense: I quite like the Clancy - Johnson pairing, and I think it will do fine against Guleph's attack, but the other pairings worry me here. I've got Vasko as an average #4 at 28 teams, and Simpson as a low-end one. Together, I think it's a pretty rough pairing. Bobby Rowe is among the better #5s in the draft, but Schneider shouldn't be playing anything more than sheltered even strength minutes in an ATD, and thus far I've seen no plan to protect him. Schneider's presence is especially worrisome given the role and composition of Guelph's third line.

2. Guelph's wing defense: Guelph is a defensive team built down the middle, while Vancouver is an offensive team built through the wings. This presents a problem for the Platers across multiple sets of matchups. Firsov vs. Palffy = do not want. Jagr vs. Robitaille is the same, as well as anybody vs. Drillon. The Platers' blueline is strong, and the centers will cover up a lot of sins, but the general defensive inattentiveness of Guelph's wings may lead to more odd-man situations against than you'd really like to see.

3. Vancouver's Adam Graves problem: No offense to Graves, but he is not cut out for ATD 3rd line duty, especially not on what looks like a dedicated checking unit. Guelph's best offensive players are on the right wing, and Vancouver simply doesn't have the LWs to check them. Tkaczuk - Westfall is the core of an excellent checkingline, but Graves stands out in a bad way, and at the exact wrong position for this matchup.

4. Guelph's Harry Watson problem: simply put, Watson on a scoringline is pretty much the definition of a plug. I worked out his VsX (which is not in the tables because it is too low) a couple of years ago, and it was only a hair above 60, iirc, and that's having played with Syl Apps during his best seasons. Watson's offense is really bad for a scoringline, and MacKay is largely there for his defense, as well. This leaves the line leaning heavily on Ziggy Palffy for offense, and I don't know how well that will go.

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05-07-2016, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
2. Guelph's wing defense: Guelph is a defensive team built down the middle, while Vancouver is an offensive team built through the wings. This presents a problem for the Platers across multiple sets of matchups. Firsov vs. Palffy = do not want. Jagr vs. Robitaille is the same, as well as anybody vs. Drillon. The Platers' blueline is strong, and the centers will cover up a lot of sins, but the general defensive inattentiveness of Guelph's wings may lead to more odd-man situations against than you'd really like to see.
I think that is fair -- up front I took offensive wingers (outside Watson) with defensive playmaking centers.. but that being said I, would much rather be strong in all zones in the middle of the ice than the outside if I am picking.

Quote:
4. Guelph's Harry Watson problem: simply put, Watson on a scoringline is pretty much the definition of a plug. I worked out his VsX (which is not in the tables because it is too low) a couple of years ago, and it was only a hair above 60, iirc, and that's having played with Syl Apps during his best seasons. Watson's offense is really bad for a scoringline, and MacKay is largely there for his defense, as well. This leaves the line leaning heavily on Ziggy Palffy for offense, and I don't know how well that will go.
I am actually considering moving Johnny Gottselig up a line in this one.. I was thinking about the same thing last series but there isn't an abundance of physicality up front on Vancouver and Johnny would be a big upgrade offensively over Watson on our second.

Meanwhile, Watson might be better in this series on the third concentrating heavily on defense and letting Kopitar and Drillon do some damage against Vancouver's weak offensive depth.

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05-07-2016, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
3. Vancouver's Adam Graves problem: No offense to Graves, but he is not cut out for ATD 3rd line duty, especially not on what looks like a dedicated checking unit. Guelph's best offensive players are on the right wing, and Vancouver simply doesn't have the LWs to check them. Tkaczuk - Westfall is the core of an excellent checkingline, but Graves stands out in a bad way, and at the exact wrong position for this matchup.
Wouldn't Gagne be much better on that line, in this situation? I mean, it'd still be the weakest link on the line, but he's at least the type of player the matchups call for. Or what about Westfall on the left, and McKenzie on the right? Pappin could slide onto the 4th line and not be a liability.

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05-09-2016, 12:01 PM
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I think I will swap him.. it works in this series:


Luc Robitaille - Frank Nighbor - Jarome Iginla
Johnny Gottselig-Mickey Mackay-Zigmund Palffy
Harry Watson-Anze Kopitar-Gordie Drillion

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05-09-2016, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
I think I will swap him.. it works in this series:


Luc Robitaille - Frank Nighbor - Jarome Iginla
Johnny Gottselig-Mickey Mackay-Zigmund Palffy
Harry Watson-Anze Kopitar-Gordie Drillion
That second line as proposed is incredibly soft. Not that Gottselig is particularly soft, just that he's not all that tough either, and the MacKay/Palffy combo is really, really soft.

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05-09-2016, 02:13 PM
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That second line as proposed is incredibly soft. Not that Gottselig is particularly soft, just that he's not all that tough either, and the MacKay/Palffy combo is really, really soft.
They aren't going to paste anyone on the end boards that's for sure, but I'm not too worried about that with the Top 6 they are facing.

Denneny is the only physical guy they have and I thought he was more of a policeman than the ill tempered sort. Maybe I have the wrong impression.

Anyways don't get to be a noted checker like MacKay if you aren't willing to go where the puck is, and you don't score 40 goals a year in the dead puck era like Palffy did without getting your nose dirty.

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Old
05-09-2016, 08:38 PM
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They aren't going to paste anyone on the end boards that's for sure, but I'm not too worried about that with the Top 6 they are facing.

Denneny is the only physical guy they have and I thought he was more of a policeman than the ill tempered sort. Maybe I have the wrong impression.
So they're never going to face extremely physical guys like Graves, Tkaczuk, Holik, Vasko, Johnson etc. ?

Ivan has a direct order to hammer the heck out of that line.

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05-10-2016, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
So they're never going to face extremely physical guys like Graves, Tkaczuk, Holik, Vasko, Johnson etc. ?
I don't see how it would be any more so than they had to face those sort of players for real.

And honestly the more you play your bottom 6 the better for me on the scoreboard, imo. They aren't much of a threat at all.

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05-20-2016, 09:52 AM
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Vancouver in 7
Jagr
Denneny
Nighbor

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Old
05-20-2016, 07:15 PM
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monster_bertuzzi
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Vancouver in 7
Jagr
Denneny
Nighbor
I thought you were posting the results for a second there.

But glad this is the way you see it.

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05-20-2016, 10:02 PM
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I'll also go with Vancouver in 7.

Jagr, Nighbor, Durnan

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05-22-2016, 03:57 PM
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Why are votes being posted in here? Did I miss something?

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05-22-2016, 04:18 PM
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Oh. I see results are posted in the other thread. I'll get this one posted asap.

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05-22-2016, 07:31 PM
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Why are votes being posted in here? Did I miss something?
Two GMs decided to vote publicly.

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05-22-2016, 08:18 PM
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Two GMs decided to vote publicly.
In the absence of an amendment sanctioning such actions I'd be extremely hesitant to accept these, except that they were posted after all eight other voters had sent their secret ballots. Also, they did not change the result, and if they did it would still feel unfair accepting these unprecedented public votes.

I realize that if I refused to accept them you could just send them in private and then I would, making my refusal little more that symbolic. That's partly why I'm going along with it. But the concern about people being influenced by public voting is very real, so if something like this was posted early on in the process I think I'd have deleted them.

If we want this to be allowed going forward it should be discussed as a group.

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05-22-2016, 08:19 PM
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Vancouver wins in overtime of game 6. Three stars:

1. Jaromir Jagr
2. Frank Nighbor
3. King Clancy

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05-22-2016, 08:55 PM
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In the absence of an amendment sanctioning such actions I'd be extremely hesitant to accept these, except that they were posted after all eight other voters had sent their secret ballots. Also, they did not change the result, and if they did it would still feel unfair accepting these unprecedented public votes.

I realize that if I refused to accept them you could just send them in private and then I would, making my refusal little more that symbolic. That's partly why I'm going along with it. But the concern about people being influenced by public voting is very real, so if something like this was posted early on in the process I think I'd have deleted them.

If we want this to be allowed going forward it should be discussed as a group.
There's that word again.. unprecedented. It seems to be thrown around a lot around here.

I honestly don't think it's a big deal myself. If it really bothers people, I won't do it again until it passes public scrutiny.

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Old
05-23-2016, 11:57 AM
  #24
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Good series BC. Really liked your team, some insane depth.

Off to the finals.

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05-24-2016, 09:59 AM
  #25
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Good series BC. Really liked your team, some insane depth.

Off to the finals.
Congrats on the win.

That's it for me, stick a fork in me.

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