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Kings "March to the Playoffs"

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Old
03-31-2004, 08:01 PM
  #1
Sydor25
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Kings "March to the Playoffs"

Kings March to the Playoffs: 3-10-1 (soon to be 3-11-1)

Who would you rather have for the Kings next season: Jason Allison or Andy Murray?

Asked before March 1st I would have said AM, but now I'm not so sure. We were all waiting for the Kings to get "healthy" and now that they are (minus Palffy), Murray can't seem to be able to coach "skilled" players as well as "energy" players. I would rather have a #1 center than an average coach. It will be much harder to replace Allison than Andy.

Imagine:

Straka-Allison-Palffy
Frolov-Stumpel-Glen Murray
Lappy-Avery-Cowan
Carter-Army-Klatt

Two solid offensive lines, an awesome 3rd line and a 4th line that can chip in some goals.

I just don't think that Andy would be the coach for that team, give me JQ for that lineup.

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03-31-2004, 08:22 PM
  #2
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Anybody notice when the Kings do these "March to the Playoffs" things we lose. Remember everyone was supposed to wear black against St. Louis and we got swept. We called that one the "blackout."

Id rather have AM becuase JA doesn't even want to play for us.

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Old
03-31-2004, 08:46 PM
  #3
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiesAreLikeWins 2 Us
Id rather have AM becuase JA doesn't even want to play for us.
He doesn't want to play for LA or AM? I would say it is AM and why would he? Andy calls out his players in the papers, yet he basically gives his assistant coaches a free pass. They are the reason that the Kings special teams are where they are, yet Andy says that it is his fault and not the coaches assigned to these tasks. Well, then isn't this 8 game losing streak also his fault and not Frolov, Straka, Cammy, Gleason's or [insert current doghouse player here]?

The problem is, which skilled players would want to play for Murray? If I was a free agent, why would I want to play for AM? He doesn't allow the skilled players to play their game. If Andy was gone, Allison would play for the Kings. I'm afraid that Palffy will be leaving as well and I'm sure Straka isn't too happy playing for AM. Wait a year or two and Frolov will be the next player to be leaving. I'm sure Cammy is having fun lighting up the AHL instead of playing for LA, but I'm sure he will be leaving before Andy does. Luc will also probably retire instead of being "rested" again by Andy.

I think that Andy has done a great job getting the Kings back to being respected in the league, but he just doesn't seem to be able to handle the skilled players.

These last three games will be very interesting to see if Andy has really lost complete control of the Kings. I think he has.

How many games did Teemu sit during his 19 game pointless drought? Sure, he was demoted to the bottom two lines, but he was never made an example of and for that he will continue to play for Granato and I'm sure he will be a different player in the playoffs because of it.

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03-31-2004, 08:56 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25
The problem is, which skilled players would want to play for Murray? If I was a free agent, why would I want to play for AM?
He has to be doing something right if he's a coach of the year canidate right?

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03-31-2004, 09:16 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiesAreLikeWins 2 Us
He has to be doing something right if he's a coach of the year canidate right?
He was with "energy" players, but now that they are healthy, the Kings are a mess. 3-10-1 record in the most important month of the year? With only one player out who was expected to play this season? How is he going to be better next year with this same team (Palffy is probably gone via FA)?

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03-31-2004, 09:57 PM
  #6
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where do you people come up with this stuff? AM is no longer effective with "skilled" players and is only effective with "energy" players?!?! i mean i been hearing this dumb ***** stuff everywhere from LGK to here and I have to know where you guys pulled this out of. AM has been coaching the kings for 4+ years now and you are telling me that after one 8 game losing streak, suddenly "EUREKA!!" AM is exposed for being the fraud he is and all of a sudden sucks with "skilled" players??? Of course, we can't take the whole "team canada" thing into account because it's INTERNATIONAL ICE!!! It makes sense now...

seriously, I can't even believe I responded to such an idiotic post. You guys were probably the same ones who were saying "AM shouldn't have benched Robitaille!!" right before he broke his cold streak when he came back.

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03-31-2004, 10:22 PM
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Why do people feel the need to name call on an interent message forum? What is the point?

Are the last two years the result of the injuries or the loss of Dave Tippett?

Is Andy Murray's "style" better suited for energy players or skilled players?

I think that the last 8 games are making me look at the last couple of season under Andy Murray. Why are the Kings struggling at a time when they are the most healthy? Do you really think that DT is going to spend money in an off-season with an expiring CBA? How will the Kings look next year without Palffy?

Is Murray the coach you want with all of these younger players coming up through the system? I'm not so sure anymore after watching what he has done with Gleason, Cammy, Frolov, Barney and Brown.

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03-31-2004, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur
where do you people come up with this stuff? AM is no longer effective with "skilled" players and is only effective with "energy" players?!?! i mean i been hearing this dumb ***** stuff everywhere from LGK to here and I have to know where you guys pulled this out of. AM has been coaching the kings for 4+ years now and you are telling me that after one 8 game losing streak, suddenly "EUREKA!!" AM is exposed for being the fraud he is and all of a sudden sucks with "skilled" players??? Of course, we can't take the whole "team canada" thing into account because it's INTERNATIONAL ICE!!! It makes sense now...

seriously, I can't even believe I responded to such an idiotic post. You guys were probably the same ones who were saying "AM shouldn't have benched Robitaille!!" right before he broke his cold streak when he came back.
Ive been saying this for the last week. Agreed 100%.

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03-31-2004, 10:54 PM
  #9
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KPD. You wrote

"where do you people come up with this stuff? AM is no longer effective with "skilled" players and is only effective with "energy" players?!?! i mean i been hearing this dumb ***** stuff everywhere from LGK to here and I have to know where you guys pulled this out of".


You seem to be missing THE most important part of the critisizms that Andy is taking yet you answer it yourself in your first sentence.

"AM is NO LONGER effective with "skilled players". I am not going to bog down another thread by listing ALL of the stats again that prove this point but rest assured, I have done it several times now and the numbers don't lie.

For whatever reasons, Andy has lost control of his team AND its skilled players. It is a fact. Have a look through the many, many threads on the topic and you will find mountains of stats to back that up.

You also seem to be confusing this with the notion that those who are being critical of Andy are saying that he isn't a great coach. He is. It has nothing to do with his career as a coach, it has to do with his working in a "what have you done for me lately" (the exact words Andy used to critisize a 21 year old second year player who is second amoung his draft group in scoring and plus minus and has given more than Belanger and Carter combined yet they have never been anything but rewarded by him) business and Andy has done NOTHING over the past TWO YEARS to prove that he can do anything with a healthy team.


I was one of the Andy can do no wrong lads until about a month or so ago when he actually benched Luc yet kept Belanger and a couple of other dandys (tripp etc) playing and called him out in the press when Luc has done nothing but give his absolute best effort every night. Something that couldn't be said for his obvious favorites.


Andy is a great coach who has lost the confidence of the majourity of his fans (only basing it on my insipid little poll here and from what I have read on the ESPN board and a couple others) as well as it would appear several of his players.


So, Andy actually as the facts would prove HASN'T proven anything over the past two years and yet, he seems to hold his self above responsibility while calling his players out in the press often.


You answered your own question mate, Andy NO LONGER can get this team to compete. Maybe a new year will change all of that, I hope so. Although, I still see him as fancying the wrong players.

I will bet you that tonight Carter will get over 19mins of ice time and be at least minus one on the game. He has done that since he got here and yet, Andy rewards him over the players that got us here. It is a disgrace to me and allot of the fans, imagine how it feels to be one of the players who are getting snubbed by him after bleeding all season long.

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Old
03-31-2004, 10:59 PM
  #10
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Oh and I will go with what Luc had to say on his benching as well as players like Brett Hull and Brendan Shannahan. Luc said "It was Andys decision but, who knows how many goals I would have scored if he had left me in".

Hull said (sic) "I have no idea why Andy Murray benched Luc, I thought he was playing great hockey for him and it seems like he (Murray) is just trying to use his best player as an example to shake things up. I don't think it has anything to do with Luc".

Shanahan said (sic) "Luc should never have been benched. He is the kind of guy that works through his slumps by playing. I don't see him as being in a slump but I don't watch every Kings game".


So yes, I were one of them and you know what, it is my opinion and it is no better or worse (right or wrong) then your own. It certainly isn't any more or less idiotic then what you are saying. (not that I find your statement to be idiotic, simply making a point)

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03-31-2004, 11:25 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25
Why do people feel the need to name call on an interent message forum? What is the point?

Are the last two years the result of the injuries or the loss of Dave Tippett?

Is Andy Murray's "style" better suited for energy players or skilled players?

I think that the last 8 games are making me look at the last couple of season under Andy Murray. Why are the Kings struggling at a time when they are the most healthy? Do you really think that DT is going to spend money in an off-season with an expiring CBA? How will the Kings look next year without Palffy?

Is Murray the coach you want with all of these younger players coming up through the system? I'm not so sure anymore after watching what he has done with Gleason, Cammy, Frolov, Barney and Brown.

look, i'm not name calling nor am i calling you stupid, but your post sure is. i just don't understand why people are jumping against AM for UNQUALIFIED reasons. You have absolutley nothing to backup what you say except for an 8 game losing streak that came at the most inopportune time. Now I have no idea about you, but I was expecting us to lose a lot more then 8 games in a row after Palffy and Straka went down, that was about 2-3 months ago. It took THIS long for injuries to finally catch up to us.

And what's wrong with the way AM deals with the rookies? Gleason, Frolov, and Barney are doing freaking great. Heck, I even like Armstrong, Corvo, Huet, and Zizka, all players who were brought up as rookies under the AM regime. What's wrong with them?

I just can't believe you are TRYING to roast the one good thing our team had this whole year. The whole damn league is praising our coaching staff and you guys are calling for his head after an eight game losing streak??? in case you weren't paying attention, the whole league was astounded we lasted this long.

If you want to look for something to blame look at Cechmanek. This is a "top three" goaltender who can't even legitly keep his starter job when compared to someone who is labeled a "career backup". It just sickens me how 7th rounder Huet is the goaltender we put in out of trust while we let our $3 million dollar "starter" sit on the bench until his dumb@ss can be trusted to play consistently. The fact that we have to even argue about which goalie should be starter pisses me off. This is one topic that should NEVER come up with goalies. Thank God Huet is better then Storr and decided to step up with Cechmanek couldn't do the job.



Quote:
Originally Posted by punchy1
KPD. You wrote

"where do you people come up with this stuff? AM is no longer effective with "skilled" players and is only effective with "energy" players?!?! i mean i been hearing this dumb ***** stuff everywhere from LGK to here and I have to know where you guys pulled this out of".


You seem to be missing THE most important part of the critisizms that Andy is taking yet you answer it yourself in your first sentence.

"AM is NO LONGER effective with "skilled players". I am not going to bog down another thread by listing ALL of the stats again that prove this point but rest assured, I have done it several times now and the numbers don't lie.

For whatever reasons, Andy has lost control of his team AND its skilled players. It is a fact. Have a look through the many, many threads on the topic and you will find mountains of stats to back that up.

gime some stats then, I'll tell you what I do know. When not breaking franchise or NHL records in injury man games lost, AM has made playoffs three years in a row and has broken the 90 point mark each time. He has been praised all around hte league for getting a lot more with what he's got both when he has scrubs playing and when he has stars playing for him. Only time he's faultered was when he was hit badly with injuries, both leading the NHL that current year AND breaking records while also breaking franchise records both times in injury man games lost.



Quote:
Originally Posted by punchy1
You also seem to be confusing this with the notion that those who are being critical of Andy are saying that he isn't a great coach. He is. It has nothing to do with his career as a coach, it has to do with his working in a "what have you done for me lately" (the exact words Andy used to critisize a 21 year old second year player who is second amoung his draft group in scoring and plus minus and has given more than Belanger and Carter combined yet they have never been anything but rewarded by him) business and Andy has done NOTHING over the past TWO YEARS to prove that he can do anything with a healthy team.


I was one of the Andy can do no wrong lads until about a month or so ago when he actually benched Luc yet kept Belanger and a couple of other dandys (tripp etc) playing and called him out in the press when Luc has done nothing but give his absolute best effort every night. Something that couldn't be said for his obvious favorites.


Andy is a great coach who has lost the confidence of the majourity of his fans (only basing it on my insipid little poll here and from what I have read on the ESPN board and a couple others) as well as it would appear several of his players.

majority of the fans? just cause the whiners take up so much of the board topics doens't mean the "majority" of the fans. the silent majority have no need to praise AM daily for how well he doese the job, we already know. The whiners, however, have to make their voices heard over and over again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by punchy1
So, Andy actually as the facts would prove HASN'T proven anything over the past two years and yet, he seems to hold his self above responsibility while calling his players out in the press often.


You answered your own question mate, Andy NO LONGER can get this team to compete. Maybe a new year will change all of that, I hope so. Although, I still see him as fancying the wrong players.

I will bet you that tonight Carter will get over 19mins of ice time and be at least minus one on the game. He has done that since he got here and yet, Andy rewards him over the players that got us here. It is a disgrace to me and allot of the fans, imagine how it feels to be one of the players who are getting snubbed by him after bleeding all season long.

I agree, Carter should have benched a long time ago. But for watever reasons, he feels he's doing his job barely enough to keep his time justified. But except for Carter, there is really no one i can think of who needs to be benched htat hasn't been already. oh wait, Cechmank... that guy shoulda been benched far earlier then now, which leads to my one and only beef with management.

Quote:
Originally Posted by punchy1
Oh and I will go with what Luc had to say on his benching as well as players like Brett Hull and Brendan Shannahan. Luc said "It was Andys decision but, who knows how many goals I would have scored if he had left me in".

Hull said (sic) "I have no idea why Andy Murray benched Luc, I thought he was playing great hockey for him and it seems like he (Murray) is just trying to use his best player as an example to shake things up. I don't think it has anything to do with Luc".

Shanahan said (sic) "Luc should never have been benched. He is the kind of guy that works through his slumps by playing. I don't see him as being in a slump but I don't watch every Kings game".


So yes, I were one of them and you know what, it is my opinion and it is no better or worse (right or wrong) then your own. It certainly isn't any more or less idiotic then what you are saying. (not that I find your statement to be idiotic, simply making a point)
so you're expecting a player who was just benched to say "oh golly, PLEASE bench me again! I had so much fun sitting there while the rest of the team played and I looked like an idiot in the pressbox"??? OH PLEASE!!! Luc says he shouldn't have benched and other players, who just happend to used to play on his old team and probably was good friends with him, say he shouldn't have been benched and you take their word over the results???? all i want to ask you is wehther or not it worked. DID LUC NOT GET BETTER AFTER BEING BENCHED??? the answer is clearly yes, in fact, he played better then ever after he got benched. Sure he may not have liked it, but it produced results.

the fact that AM has the guts to bench the best players says enough for me. Most coaches are too scared to do that and let egos rule the team. At least AM has the balls to make people sit when they suck.


Last edited by KingPurpleDinosaur: 03-31-2004 at 11:55 PM.
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04-01-2004, 12:23 AM
  #12
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"whiners" (I thought you werent "name calling").


I think that if you want to see all of the stats that support the facts on Andys poor showing in the areas that he is being critisized for then you should go and look them up. If, like you say that us "whiners" (really mate, simply because someone has a contrary opinion to your own it doesn't make them a "whiner") take up the boards with this obviously in your opinion is wrong then it should be easy for you. I have written them way to many times taking up way too much space to do it again here.

Also, there are polls asking the very question on how people feel about Andys job and it is the same on all three boards where I have seen it done, the majourity (not the silent minority, not the whining majourity, the actual total and factual amount of people who responded to the polls) have said that Andy isn't doing the job in the manner that they expect him to.

On this board, some feel he should be given one more chance and if he don't do something right soon next year, he should be sent packing. Some feel it is time for whatever reason to move him along and some, the minority, would feel he is doing a perfect job.

The poll on this board is more of a subjective one. If you got to the others I have seen they are simple and straight. One of them says "Based on what the Kings have accomplished during his time as their coach, should you A) fire Andy Murray or B) Keep him.

Its the same there (as it is in even another poll that asks the same) in that over %60 of those who responded feel that Andy, for whatever reason, hasn't been doing the best job in all areas of his game.

So we aren't the majority of "whiners" we are a bunch of passionate Kings fans like yourself who find fault with Andys coaching lately.

You seem to have glossed over the bit where I say he is a brilliant coach as you keep using his accomplishments as the foundation of your position. I am not challenging how great a coach he *has* been for us. I am though being critical, as is my right as a fan, of how he is managing his assets and holding him as responsible as he seems to hold his players. (though he doesn't seem to hold his self to the same standards anymore)


Andy said in the papers that no matter how hard someone is trying that "we are in the what have you done for me lately business" as a reason for benching Frolov (and others) well then, what has Andy done for me lately? Ask yourself that and your answer, if you look at all of the facts, will let you know what your position on how good or bad of a job he is doing would be.

I do find it funny that of those of us who are critical of Andys coaching that none of us are hammering or calling any of the Andy backers names or saying that they are whining or wrong, it looks to me like we have no problem respecting the opinions of those who support Andy, the only two posters I have seen call anyone ignorant or a whiner have come from the andy backers.

I respect your position KPD, I just don't agree with it and have posted what I feel are significant facts to back my position up, we are all Kings fans in the end and NONE of us know anything more than the other does. It is all conjecture from a bunch of fans who aren't actually employed by the Kings or any other NHL team last I knew.

No reason to call anyone anything or get all too angry about it.

(insert smiley guy here, buggered computer)

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04-01-2004, 02:24 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur
look, i'm not name calling nor am i calling you stupid, but your post sure is. i just don't understand why people are jumping against AM for UNQUALIFIED reasons. You have absolutley nothing to backup what you say except for an 8 game losing streak that came at the most inopportune time. Now I have no idea about you, but I was expecting us to lose a lot more then 8 games in a row after Palffy and Straka went down, that was about 2-3 months ago. It took THIS long for injuries to finally catch up to us.

And what's wrong with the way AM deals with the rookies? Gleason, Frolov, and Barney are doing freaking great. Heck, I even like Armstrong, Corvo, Huet, and Zizka, all players who were brought up as rookies under the AM regime. What's wrong with them?

I just can't believe you are TRYING to roast the one good thing our team had this whole year. The whole damn league is praising our coaching staff and you guys are calling for his head after an eight game losing streak??? in case you weren't paying attention, the whole league was astounded we lasted this long.

If you want to look for something to blame look at Cechmanek. This is a "top three" goaltender who can't even legitly keep his starter job when compared to someone who is labeled a "career backup". It just sickens me how 7th rounder Huet is the goaltender we put in out of trust while we let our $3 million dollar "starter" sit on the bench until his dumb@ss can be trusted to play consistently. The fact that we have to even argue about which goalie should be starter pisses me off. This is one topic that should NEVER come up with goalies. Thank God Huet is better then Storr and decided to step up with Cechmanek couldn't do the job.






gime some stats then, I'll tell you what I do know. When not breaking franchise or NHL records in injury man games lost, AM has made playoffs three years in a row and has broken the 90 point mark each time. He has been praised all around hte league for getting a lot more with what he's got both when he has scrubs playing and when he has stars playing for him. Only time he's faultered was when he was hit badly with injuries, both leading the NHL that current year AND breaking records while also breaking franchise records both times in injury man games lost.






majority of the fans? just cause the whiners take up so much of the board topics doens't mean the "majority" of the fans. the silent majority have no need to praise AM daily for how well he doese the job, we already know. The whiners, however, have to make their voices heard over and over again.





I agree, Carter should have benched a long time ago. But for watever reasons, he feels he's doing his job barely enough to keep his time justified. But except for Carter, there is really no one i can think of who needs to be benched htat hasn't been already. oh wait, Cechmank... that guy shoulda been benched far earlier then now, which leads to my one and only beef with management.



so you're expecting a player who was just benched to say "oh golly, PLEASE bench me again! I had so much fun sitting there while the rest of the team played and I looked like an idiot in the pressbox"??? OH PLEASE!!! Luc says he shouldn't have benched and other players, who just happend to used to play on his old team and probably was good friends with him, say he shouldn't have been benched and you take their word over the results???? all i want to ask you is wehther or not it worked. DID LUC NOT GET BETTER AFTER BEING BENCHED??? the answer is clearly yes, in fact, he played better then ever after he got benched. Sure he may not have liked it, but it produced results.

the fact that AM has the guts to bench the best players says enough for me. Most coaches are too scared to do that and let egos rule the team. At least AM has the balls to make people sit when they suck.
Dude WTF are you talking about! You're the same guy that has a handle on every prospect that you've never seen. And, our management should have got this guy or that guy. So since you probably watch KINGS games..........and thats what we're talking about right? My question is what *****ing games are you watching. I mean you start calling people out, that they're whiners.....but if you would have followed certain threads and READ the whole thing, than maybe you would actually have some valid points.

It's cool bro, you like AM........great! It doesn't mean everybody has to jump on your bandwagon. This is not LGK. We all have constructive criticism here and a common respect. It's not just the "kings suck" and comments that don't back their statements. We've all given respect to AM.......but AM doesn't skate on the Staple Center Ice. I spend loads of money every year on this team. I've gone to over thirty games this year (and tonight), and frankly if you're too blind to see that certain players get better treatment than others, than your smoking some serious sticky. How you can justify the all time leading left wing scorer in the NHL sitting when we're already thin as it is...........is all the ammo anybody needs on your lame comments. I know, I know it made Luc play better.............you actually believing that ***** is really funny to me. Slumps will always be a major part of the game. It's like *****:IT HAPPENS! How our beloved coach handles it, is a whole different nightmare! You must love seeing players like Chartrand and Tripp replace Frolov and Straka!

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Old
04-01-2004, 06:28 AM
  #14
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I hope the Kings never fire Murray, and never make the playoffs again. It would mean more anger. I love reading it. It's hilarious.

Not sure what you expect out of Murray. Frolov is hurt(no, no, Murray has to be an idiot, nevermind). Straka obviously came back too soon. Carter's season has just been a lost one. Why does Murray play Modry instead of Gleason? Because Gleason isn't on the team at the moment. They sent him to Manchester to get in the playoff mode down there. Yeah, that's right Kings fans! Chew on that fact! A minor league team made the playoffs before the Kings did. How does that make you feel? Angry?

Every coach has his favorite players. Every coach has a defensive system that hinders the offensive side of the game. Every coach makes odd changes to the lineup from time to time. Whoever the next coach is, I guarantee you people will want him fired too. Which will be the same with the coach after him too. And the next one, then the next one.

Why did the Kings collapse? Well, to end their season, they had to play almost every Western playoff team. Why is that significant? Because since Palffy went down 3 months ago, the Kings have beaten 3 playoff teams. They just didn't have enough. They would somehow come up with a point here and there to stay in the race. But even with their healthiest lineup in almost 2 years, there just wasn't enough. They still made stupid mistakes. Veterans and rookies alike. There's only so much a coach can do. If players are so stupid as to not be able to clear a puck on a consistent basis, what can you do? Everyone played like crap down the stretch, including Frolov. Get off the Frolov kick. He wasn't producing when the Kings needed him most, AND, AND, AND, he's got an ankle injury.

Never fire Murray! Keep him for all eternity! I want rivers of King fan blood boiling! Your anger is like a drug, I can't get enough. If the Kings ever, EVER, fire Andy Murray, then a pox on all your houses!

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04-01-2004, 06:54 AM
  #15
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04-01-2004, 10:48 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by KingsFan7824
I hope the Kings never fire Murray, and never make the playoffs again. It would mean more anger. I love reading it. It's hilarious.

Not sure what you expect out of Murray. Frolov is hurt(no, no, Murray has to be an idiot, nevermind). Straka obviously came back too soon. Carter's season has just been a lost one. Why does Murray play Modry instead of Gleason? Because Gleason isn't on the team at the moment. They sent him to Manchester to get in the playoff mode down there. Yeah, that's right Kings fans! Chew on that fact! A minor league team made the playoffs before the Kings did. How does that make you feel? Angry?

Every coach has his favorite players. Every coach has a defensive system that hinders the offensive side of the game. Every coach makes odd changes to the lineup from time to time. Whoever the next coach is, I guarantee you people will want him fired too. Which will be the same with the coach after him too. And the next one, then the next one.

Why did the Kings collapse? Well, to end their season, they had to play almost every Western playoff team. Why is that significant? Because since Palffy went down 3 months ago, the Kings have beaten 3 playoff teams. They just didn't have enough. They would somehow come up with a point here and there to stay in the race. But even with their healthiest lineup in almost 2 years, there just wasn't enough. They still made stupid mistakes. Veterans and rookies alike. There's only so much a coach can do. If players are so stupid as to not be able to clear a puck on a consistent basis, what can you do? Everyone played like crap down the stretch, including Frolov. Get off the Frolov kick. He wasn't producing when the Kings needed him most, AND, AND, AND, he's got an ankle injury.

Never fire Murray! Keep him for all eternity! I want rivers of King fan blood boiling! Your anger is like a drug, I can't get enough. If the Kings ever, EVER, fire Andy Murray, then a pox on all your houses!


You left out the part where you say "Andy is our coach and can do no wrong!" Those who are critical of Andy don't know what they are talking about! Only I know the truth! etc.


Mate, take a bloody position or why bother responding at all.


Dispute the stats and positions point by point with your actual opinions or don't bother posting on the subject. (not that I don't feel you should have the right, just saying that to call people out for their opinions and not stating why you feel the way you do is sort of lame.)

What are we supposed to debate with? Conjecture and inuindo? You have to state the reasons you have your opinions in order for there to be a valid debate, that is why I and several others have written so much as to why we feel the way we do. So that we can have the foundation of an actual debate. Not a name calling "You guys are wrong because I said so" argument".



Also, where is the anger? I see people as passionate Kings fans that are simply stating opinions (and in some cases backed by actual statistics that can be used to back up their position. Of course, they could also be used to debate them) and such.


I don't believe for a second that anyone is angry here. I don't agree with KPD nor him me but, I still fancy him a smart and passionate Kings fan. I am not "angry" with you or the people who don't agree with my position, if anything, I am happy to see that there are different opinions than mine.

I read all of them and try to learn what I can. I think that if you can't keep an open mind and entertain other peoples point of veiws that you are showing the height of arrogance. It says that you must believe that only YOU know everything there is to know on a subject and that is wrong.

I keep an open mind and think most everyone here does as well. I know that I have come in and posted one opinion, read what another poster felt on the subject and had that opinion completely changed about.

I have seen others do so as well.

I am not trying to make anybody hate Andy or think he is awful, (I have said many times on how great a coach I fancy him to be) I am simply writting what I see are massive problems and sitting back trying to learn why others don't see them in the same manner I do. Maybe I am missing something. Maybe I am right.

We are Kings fans and the way I have seen it is that we are supposed to come here and share our opinions on the team and have a good time. Why is it that some people can't seperate the notion that is it actually possible to have a difference of opinion without being angry at each other? In fact, I have gotten to know many of us Kings fans better via pm and on the boards due to the fact that we don't see things eye to eye.


I guess what I am trying to say is two things, One, this is all in good fun and NONE of us, not the "andy bashing whiners" or the "Andy is god" supporters know JACK ALL about what is REALLY going on, all we have to place our opinions on is what we see and how that makes us feel.

I like every single person I have met here and feel that with one or two exceptions, and they are either new posters or people who are just that way, that we all get along and are truly laughing or are entertained with each other here. ABSOLUTELY unlike how things are at LGKings site.



So again, go back to one of the many silly and windbagged novels that were written showing WHY people feel the way they do about Andys diffuclties and then, have a bash at it. I know I will be waiting to support my position and having a bloody grand bit of crack while I am at it.

None of us are right, or wrong, we are simply giving an opinion.


Last edited by punchy1: 04-01-2004 at 12:10 PM.
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04-01-2004, 12:01 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by KingsFan7824
I hope the Kings never fire Murray, and never make the playoffs again. It would mean more anger. I love reading it. It's hilarious.

Not sure what you expect out of Murray. Frolov is hurt(no, no, Murray has to be an idiot, nevermind). Straka obviously came back too soon. Carter's season has just been a lost one. Why does Murray play Modry instead of Gleason? Because Gleason isn't on the team at the moment. They sent him to Manchester to get in the playoff mode down there. Yeah, that's right Kings fans! Chew on that fact! A minor league team made the playoffs before the Kings did. How does that make you feel? Angry?

Every coach has his favorite players. Every coach has a defensive system that hinders the offensive side of the game. Every coach makes odd changes to the lineup from time to time. Whoever the next coach is, I guarantee you people will want him fired too. Which will be the same with the coach after him too. And the next one, then the next one.

Why did the Kings collapse? Well, to end their season, they had to play almost every Western playoff team. Why is that significant? Because since Palffy went down 3 months ago, the Kings have beaten 3 playoff teams. They just didn't have enough. They would somehow come up with a point here and there to stay in the race. But even with their healthiest lineup in almost 2 years, there just wasn't enough. They still made stupid mistakes. Veterans and rookies alike. There's only so much a coach can do. If players are so stupid as to not be able to clear a puck on a consistent basis, what can you do? Everyone played like crap down the stretch, including Frolov. Get off the Frolov kick. He wasn't producing when the Kings needed him most, AND, AND, AND, he's got an ankle injury.

Never fire Murray! Keep him for all eternity! I want rivers of King fan blood boiling! Your anger is like a drug, I can't get enough. If the Kings ever, EVER, fire Andy Murray, then a pox on all your houses!
Who's angry? Everybody is entitled to their OPINION, but if your whole take is just to see people angry on this board..............that's just hilarious. We're expressing our views and that's all. I haven't started a "FIRE" AM petition, and I pretty much have to ride whatever they give to us fans...........but it doesn't mean I have to agree with everything that happens. You're right about coaches getting the axe........it's the way it's always been, and it will continue to be that way. You make it sound like he's built a dynasty here. We're not winning.......look at that fact! And, i'm not just talking about this streak that we're on. Players don't seem to be responding to him. I really believe that AM is a good coach, but this isn't Lake Placid. He's been given proper players and tools to turn us into a competitor. I'm so over this injury buisness. If you want to go off paper on who has a better club, take a good look at us. San Jose was predicted to finish dead last in the division. They lost their core players...yet there on the top, same goes for Calgary. Although strong goaltending is what also put them over the top. We can't blame AM on that..............BUT, if he knows we're not getting the strong goaltending that steals games, than he needs to tweak a few things. Instead he sits top players, and most here support every move he makes.

This is going to be a long roller-coaster ride!

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04-01-2004, 12:44 PM
  #18
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Instead he sits top players
Robitaille wasn't scoring, so he sat him for a few games. At the end here, nobody was giving an effort. I don't think the players just suddenly stopped listening to Murray after 70 games. Obviously something was getting through because the Kings were in a position they had no business being in after 70 games. Straka wasn't scoring, so he sat him. Frolov wasn't scoring, and he got hurt, so he sat him. He even sat his favorite Modry for a few games. Had Frolov been healthy, I'm guessing Carter would've been in the press box for a few games.

The horror.

Quote:
If you want to go off paper on who has a better club, take a good look at us. San Jose was predicted to finish dead last in the division. They lost their core players...yet there on the top, same goes for Calgary. Although strong goaltending is what also put them over the top. We can't blame AM on that..............BUT, if he knows we're not getting the strong goaltending that steals games, than he needs to tweak a few things
And both those teams have gotten that strong goaltending. Tweak a few things if you're not getting strong goaltending? Like what? Everything is dependent on goaltending. If you don't have strong goaltending, there's nowhere else to go, you're not going to win. I don't care who the coach is.

Quote:
He's been given proper players and tools to turn us into a competitor. I'm so over this injury buisness
And so is Murray. He's never used injuries as an excuse. But the tools haven't been around to build anything close to a contender with for the last 2 years. Is San Jose a true contender? Is Calgary? I don't know. We'll have to wait a month and see. We all thought Anaheim was a contender with their one run. Now they're done too.

I don't agree with everything Murray does. But he's not the reason the season didn't work out. A reason? Sure. The reason? No.

So he sat a guy for a game or two. What tweaking do you want? He's trying to send a message.

The Kings were shot long before this losing streak. Murray didn't have much to work with. I don't know how they ended up with points during the season. The Kings had beaten all of 3 playoff teams since Palffy went down, Nashville(who they were 4-0 against anyway), Edmonton(on a last second goal by Holland of all people), and Calgary(some game in the middle of January that nobody can remember). That's it. All their other wins were against teams below them in the standings. They had a very difficult schedule to end the year. They had zero breaks. They didn't get to play a Chicago, or Washington, or anyone. They had to play every team that was in the playoffs, in a tight race for the last few spots, plus bring new players into the lineup, plus brings in players that were just coming off of months on the IR, all at the same time. That's tough to do. Detroit might be able to do that. But Detroit's core has been together for a decade, winning multiple cups in the process. Everyone in the Kings core got hurt. There hasn't been a core. It's just a patch-work lineup due to all the injuries.

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04-01-2004, 01:34 PM
  #19
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In hindsight the Kings should have called it the March from the Playoffs. It seems like whenever the marketingdepartment tries some gimmic like this it actually hurts the product on the ice

 
Old
04-01-2004, 01:46 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by KingsFan7824
Robitaille wasn't scoring, so he sat him for a few games. At the end here, nobody was giving an effort. I don't think the players just suddenly stopped listening to Murray after 70 games. Obviously something was getting through because the Kings were in a position they had no business being in after 70 games. Straka wasn't scoring, so he sat him. Frolov wasn't scoring, and he got hurt, so he sat him. He even sat his favorite Modry for a few games. Had Frolov been healthy, I'm guessing Carter would've been in the press box for a few games.
Here we go......Again every player goes on slumps, it's a part of the game and it will never go away, especially with all the new systems in place and the dilluted league (these days 80pts and you're a superstar), where hockey has become more like soccer.
Frolov: 4 goals 2 assists / last 10 games. That's struggling? We were barely getting any offensive production to begin with. Yes, HE DID GET BENCHED (Calgary)! Last 2 games are due to injury....supposedly! His last three games on the 10 games given above, he was put on a line with ZERO chemistry. Is that his fault? It's so easy for everybody here to say they should be able to play with anyone.........my only advice is to play hockey!
Straka: 2 assists / last 10 games. When he was benched on the first occasion was after 5 games. At that point he had an assist and a -2. Is that so pitiful, because you might want to take a look at every other players stats. He gets singled out, but your putting himself in a position to fail. Again wacked out line combinations, and 4th line spot duty. Your destined to fail! Last night our amazing coach finally played him at center, WHERE HE SHOULD BE! He was a waterbug out there, and I had unbelievable seats to see it. You can definitely see who's skating and who's trying out there!
Robitaille: Well he's Robitaille. He's not going to win any skating contests. We all know that, but you can't question his heart or his blistering shot! AGAIN! ALL TIME LEADING LEFT WING SCORER IN THE NHL! Murray was coaching high school when this guy was bagging 40 goals a year!
Carter: Well you're just guessing and I can bet you he'd still be out there.
Main points here are he's singling out players that are the complete opposite of who he really needs to be paying attention too! Miller, Carter, Stumpel, Modry, Belanger....should I go on.

Quote:
The horror.

And both those teams have gotten that strong goaltending. Tweak a few things if you're not getting strong goaltending? Like what? Everything is dependent on goaltending. If you don't have strong goaltending, there's nowhere else to go, you're not going to win. I don't care who the coach is.
Yes when it was needed most. But goaltending is not the end all - be all of every win or stolen game. You need to score to win games. What do you think they've been doing in Vancouver with Cloutier. There is more than one piece to the puzzle, and although everybody wants a hot goaltender during post-season, you need to learn how to protect leads and get some clutch scoring to give your goalie a little more space for a possible mistake. As much as our goalies ain't giving us the luxuries, either are the forwards. Again, these are situations AM CAN CONTROL! if we're so thin up front why is he benching top forwards. I know, I know they're not scoring.

Quote:
And so is Murray. He's never used injuries as an excuse. But the tools haven't been around to build anything close to a contender with for the last 2 years. Is San Jose a true contender? Is Calgary? I don't know. We'll have to wait a month and see. We all thought Anaheim was a contender with their one run. Now they're done too.
I don't agree with everything Murray does. But he's not the reason the season didn't work out. A reason? Sure. The reason? No.
So he sat a guy for a game or two. What tweaking do you want? He's trying to send a message.
The Kings were shot long before this losing streak. Murray didn't have much to work with. I don't know how they ended up with points during the season. The Kings had beaten all of 3 playoff teams since Palffy went down, Nashville(who they were 4-0 against anyway), Edmonton(on a last second goal by Holland of all people), and Calgary(some game in the middle of January that nobody can remember). That's it. All their other wins were against teams below them in the standings. They had a very difficult schedule to end the year. They had zero breaks. They didn't get to play a Chicago, or Washington, or anyone. They had to play every team that was in the playoffs, in a tight race for the last few spots, plus bring new players into the lineup, plus brings in players that were just coming off of months on the IR, all at the same time. That's tough to do. Detroit might be able to do that. But Detroit's core has been together for a decade, winning multiple cups in the process. Everyone in the Kings core got hurt. There hasn't been a core. It's just a patch-work lineup due to all the injuries
Nobody ever thought Anaheim was a true contender.......and I mean nobody! The experts, coach's around the league.......better yet Paul Kariya. They simply rode a ***** hot goaltender with gigantic pads!
Sending a message? That's the way you send a message? The main topics behind the people that disagree with AM are two things........Player assessment, and for me not dressing a true heavyweight. That's it! He puts players in a position to fail. I'm not saying that's his intentions, I know he doesn't want that. But his combinations are simply ********. When Trent Klatt got here, he instantly said he was going into a top line. I like Klatt, but this is a perfect example of ass backwards mentality. Trent Klatt is a third line player, end of story. And, his statistics prove that every year.
Accountability is one of AM's biggest attributes, but he needs to preach that to every player....and it's obvious to everyone that he has his favorites. Unfortunately his favorites seem to be hated by 18000 fans at every home game. Mistakes happen, but when consistent mistakes are happening and he doesn't bench that person..........what kind of message does that send. I swear Aaron Miller has been just as bad as Modry, if not worse...yet he gets loads of playing time.

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04-01-2004, 02:55 PM
  #21
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Again every player goes on slumps, it's a part of the game and it will never go away
And so does every team. Are they usually 9 game losing streaks to end a season? No. But at this point, it's a snowball effect. The Kings were in such a tight race, they didn't get the extra goal, they didn't get the extra save, and it just kept going. It happens.

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Yes, HE DID GET BENCHED (Calgary)! Last 2 games are due to injury....supposedly!
Yes, he did get benched. For one game. By that time the Kings were basically done. It didn't really matter who he sat. So he sat Frolov. If he didn't sit Frolov, they still would've lost. It didn't matter.

Quote:
Is that so pitiful, because you might want to take a look at every other players stats. He gets singled out
Exactly. They all sucked when it mattered most. Who cares who sat and who didn't.

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but you can't question his heart or his blistering shot! AGAIN! ALL TIME LEADING LEFT WING SCORER IN THE NHL! Murray was coaching high school when this guy was bagging 40 goals a year!
He sat Robitaille about 1000 years ago. He benched him some time in January. Robitaille got pissed, came back, and scored some goals. Guess it worked.

Quote:
Main points here are he's singling out players that are the complete opposite of who he really needs to be paying attention too! Miller, Carter, Stumpel, Modry, Belanger....should I go on.
Who else are they going to go with? If you want to sit them all, fine, give me some names to take their place. Great, play Gleason instead of Modry. It's not like Gleason didn't make a bad mistake on the Selanne game winner.

I'm not arguing that those players should not have been benched. I honestly don't care who was benched.

Quote:
Yes when it was needed most. But goaltending is not the end all - be all of every win or stolen game. You need to score to win games. What do you think they've been doing in Vancouver with Cloutier. There is more than one piece to the puzzle, and although everybody wants a hot goaltender during post-season, you need to learn how to protect leads and get some clutch scoring to give your goalie a little more space for a possible mistake. As much as our goalies ain't giving us the luxuries, either are the forwards. Again, these are situations AM CAN CONTROL! if we're so thin up front why is he benching top forwards. I know, I know they're not scoring
Actually goaltending is the be-all-end-all in the league today. If you don't have that, nothing else matters. Do you need scoring? Absolutely. Minnesota has great goaltending, but they're going nowhere this year either because they can't score. Do you need to know how to protect a lead? Of course. The Kings didn't do that. They were awful at it. But if everyone on the team doesn't know how to simply clear a puck, there's nothing you can do. That's on the players. Clear the puck. Outwork the other guy. Nobody did that consistently this year.

Has Vancouver gotten any further than the Kings under Murray come playoff time? No, they haven't.

And the players in front of the goalie do need to play better. The bad thing is that none of them were playing any good.

How long into the losing streak did he give those top forwards? Almost every game until they were officially done. He sat Frolov one game because of his play. He sat Straka one game because of his play. If the Kings had any healthy bodies, I see no reason Carter wouldn't have sat for at least a game.

Quote:
When Trent Klatt got here, he instantly said he was going into a top line
Yes, with a healthy Allison and Deadmarsh. He was going to spread out the scoring, which is what every single team in the league wants to do if they have the ability to do so. Had Allison and Deadmarsh been healthy, with Stumpel, Palffy, and Frolov on the other line, and Robitaille and Armstrong on another, they would've had the ability to do it.

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Trent Klatt is a third line player, end of story. And, his statistics prove that every year.
And Straka's stats this year say he should barely be on a 2nd line.

Quote:
Sending a message? That's the way you send a message?
Care to say how else you're supposed to send a message of any kind in today's league? Take away ice time. That's it. Money doesn't matter to the players.

You're focusing too much on Straka and Frolov. The big picture is that they all were terrible when the Kings needed them all to be at their best. So he picked Straka and Frolov, big deal.

Awwww, will their feelings be hurt? Uh-oh, better not upset them. They're big boys. I think they can handle it. They'll live.

Quote:
Mistakes happen, but when consistent mistakes are happening and he doesn't bench that person..........what kind of message does that send. I swear Aaron Miller has been just as bad as Modry, if not worse...yet he gets loads of playing time
Well, Miller came back from 3 month on the IR with a pinched nerve in his neck. At a time when the Kings were in a position to make the playoffs, and everyone wanted Miller back. It didn't work out the way the Kings wanted.

Straka was a good trade until he got hurt. It didn't work out this year.

They thought maybe Carter could come in and maybe provide a spark. It didn't work out.

But nothing has worked out for the Kings over the last 2 years. Everything the Kings wanted to be was lost. Allison, their first big, true, point per game center since Gretzky, got hurt. Deadmarsh, their heart and soul, done. Palffy, maybe the MVP of the league the way he was playing, done.

They've had a bad run. Go back to game 4 against the Avalanche when Deadmarsh lost his balance and went crashing head first into the boards. They might have won that game had that not happened. They could've gone on to win the series. Who knows. But since then, it's been one bad break after another. The very next game, Boucher gets hit in the eye. After that, Allison got hurt.

Then the following season, Allison gets hurt in the first month. Nothing would've stopped that from happening, except Allison not being in that place at that time.

Trades that seem ok, haven't worked out. They don't get bounces. Almost every single player has gotten injured for long periods of time, especially their most important players.

They've had a bad run.

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04-01-2004, 03:37 PM
  #22
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[QUOTE=KingsFan7824]



I want to take this in small bite sized chunks to make my point with you because you are either ignoring a couple of very critical pieces of the puzzle or truly have yet to consider them.


Lets start with the first and easiest part.

You said " You are focusing too much and Frolov and Straka". I would ask you this question, why do you think that is so?



The second question is this, do you think Andy were right when he goes to the papers calling out players for their poor performances and yet benches them when they do the same and says "we are a team and that means that we don't talk to the press about our problems. We deal with it in house"?



Do you think it is right to do that when the players whom he is calling out are having *significantly* better seasons than other players who he NEVER says a bad word about and who receive more ice time and opportunities than the ones he is critical of?




Do you think it is alright that he uses words like "accountability" for some players and not for others?
( and no, saying "every coach has their favorites" isn't an answer as I have shown in other threads, as have others, that NONE of them show as much bias as Andy has. There are several examples that prove that position to be invalid so another one would be appreciated)





Do you think he is right when he says "we are in the what have you done for me lately business" in regards to Frolov when he (frolov) were producing more than any of our other forwards save Avery and Lappy and not to use the same phylosophy for his self as well as other players on the team?




If Frolov were injured and that is *the* reason he is being sat, shouldn't the Kings list him as such and not as a healthy scratch and shouldn't Andy go to the papers and either apologize for what he said about him (frolov) or at the very least let them know that Frolov is being scratched now as he isn't %100?





Do you feel that it is right to critisize Frolov or Straka for their "poor play" when, Straka were only given two and one half games to play on a line with his old line mates before being subjugated to playing little time on our checking lines and Frolov saw his line mates changed completely and were different every night as well as his ice time being cut down?




Is it fair to blame Frolov for his drop off in production (which was, as stated and backed up by factual statistic support as being better than many other players who saw increases in ice time and opportunities) when, after having two games of playing with Stumpel and Straka, he was then forced to play with the worst player the Kings have had on their team all season, Anson Carter who stepped in and has lowered the production of EVERY person he has played with since becoming a King?





Do you think it is the best way to reward a second year budding star who is not only the second best forward of his entry year (behind Spezza, ahead of Nash) statistically, but also the second leading scorer and plus minus player on your team under the circumstances?


Frolov is said to have a contract that pays him an extra nice bit of dosh if he hits the 50 point plateau, he has 48 points, as his coach, after considering the fact that he has given you more then all but one of his entry draft mates have given their teams as well as more than you reckoned he would in point production and defencive play, do you think it right that Andy took away his chance at reaching the 50 point mark and his bonus?




Do you think that is going to motivate Frolov and his team mates knowing that after all of the poor play by loads of rubbish like Belanger, Carter, Modry, Tripp, Chartran and others that he (frolov) was denied the chance to reach that rare milestone in his second year by two bloody points because "the coach wanted to send him a message?"





Do you think it sends the propper message?





What do you think the propper message is supposed to be to the player and the rest of the team when you bench them?






There are allot more questions that I have for you to prove my point but, I would absolutely appreciate it if you would take the time to answer each of these questions in order first.

None of them are meant as smarmy or having a piss at you. They are all questions that will help me make a point as well as understand your position on the subject.


If you please.


Cheers mate.

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04-01-2004, 05:32 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824
And so does every team. Are they usually 9 game losing streaks to end a season? No. But at this point, it's a snowball effect. The Kings were in such a tight race, they didn't get the extra goal, they didn't get the extra save, and it just kept going. It happens.
My points exactly! Every team and every player goes on slumps....Maybe due to a long season...who knows, that's another subject.



Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824
Yes, he did get benched. For one game. By that time the Kings were basically done. It didn't really matter who he sat. So he sat Frolov. If he didn't sit Frolov, they still would've lost. It didn't matter.



Exactly. They all sucked when it mattered most. Who cares who sat and who didn't.



He sat Robitaille about 1000 years ago. He benched him some time in January. Robitaille got pissed, came back, and scored some goals. Guess it worked.



Who else are they going to go with? If you want to sit them all, fine, give me some names to take their place. Great, play Gleason instead of Modry. It's not like Gleason didn't make a bad mistake on the Selanne game winner.

I'm not arguing that those players should not have been benched. I honestly don't care who was benched.
At least i'm starting to understand what you're saying......."you simply don't give a ***** who he is sitting"............But I do, and that's just me, we're both entitled to our opinions. If we don't have the balls to at least be nasty out there, than I want to see the best product on the ice........and that means your best players. We're simply watching the same games as the coach's. Can you not see that chemistry is really off. It's not that hard to see. Outlet passes from the D to O are simply not connecting, and their is zero transition. When a pass is completed our forwards are running into each other........why? It's simple, those players are not use to each other, or styles for that matter. Again something AM can control. I personally don't know if you're a diehard Kings fan, or a casual viewer......either way it doesn't really matter. It's a simple point, would you rather see Frolov or Chartrand; Straka or Tripp........It seems to be the latter on both.



Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824
Actually goaltending is the be-all-end-all in the league today. If you don't have that, nothing else matters. Do you need scoring? Absolutely. Minnesota has great goaltending, but they're going nowhere this year either because they can't score. Do you need to know how to protect a lead? Of course. The Kings didn't do that. They were awful at it. But if everyone on the team doesn't know how to simply clear a puck, there's nothing you can do. That's on the players. Clear the puck. Outwork the other guy. Nobody did that consistently this year.

Has Vancouver gotten any further than the Kings under Murray come playoff time? No, they haven't.

And the players in front of the goalie do need to play better. The bad thing is that none of them were playing any good.

How long into the losing streak did he give those top forwards? Almost every game until they were officially done. He sat Frolov one game because of his play. He sat Straka one game because of his play. If the Kings had any healthy bodies, I see no reason Carter wouldn't have sat for at least a game.
Really, so I guess special teams mean nothing in the playoffs. Last year was a fluke year...end of story! I think goaltending is one of the most important pieces to winning championships........but it's not the only thing, you still need to score to win games. I can agree with your points on the Kings and clearing the puck. So exactly the reason why we're having these discussions is simply due to the fact that AM should open his eyes, and sit players that are not following through. Modry after three *****ing years finally gets benched. Most people here thought Lubo had a bad sophmore season. To me it had everything to do with how he was handled........it was ridiculous! This guy has always been a gamer, and it didn't take him getting benched to figure that out! Plain and Simple the RULES SHOULD APPLY TO EVERYONE! Rosa comes up has two points (flukes-but points) yet he gets sat the next game, to end his tenure here with LA. I'm not a Rosa fan, but these are the main examples. Same story for Cammy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824
Yes, with a healthy Allison and Deadmarsh. He was going to spread out the scoring, which is what every single team in the league wants to do if they have the ability to do so. Had Allison and Deadmarsh been healthy, with Stumpel, Palffy, and Frolov on the other line, and Robitaille and Armstrong on another, they would've had the ability to do it.



And Straka's stats this year say he should barely be on a 2nd line.
Exactly my points again! What a complete nob (AM)! No you don't need to spread the wealth, because we already have it at least with 6-8 players. I remember to this day Allison's quote before the beginning of last season. "If it ain't broke don't fix it." Was he calling out AM........he sure was! I mean the LAPD line was taunting the league.....why would you want to break that up? The formula worked and it had everything to do with Tippett putting that line together. Believe it or not, but people pay for entertainment.....and that's exactly what that line brought.
Straka has 13pts in 30 games.........right under a point every two games. Yeah, that's a second liner. Play him with better players, and see those numbers soar!

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You're focusing too much on Straka and Frolov. The big picture is that they all were terrible when the Kings needed them all to be at their best. So he picked Straka and Frolov, big deal.
Awwww, will their feelings be hurt? Uh-oh, better not upset them. They're big boys. I think they can handle it. They'll live
Well I guess we'll just agree to disagree on that one. It's pretty old at this point.
As far as there crying goes.....i'm not their dads, brothers or anything for that matter, and they're simply living the life so I could care less about that. They're true professionals. I don't see them acting on their impulses to taunt to their lame ass coach like he does with them. I think every player that's been benched has handled it well, not to mention the ***** they have to deal with this guy. Luc on the other hand went public, which AM doesn't have a problem doing!

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04-01-2004, 07:30 PM
  #24
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You are focusing too much and Frolov and Straka". I would ask you this question, why do you think that is so?
Because nobody played well.

Quote:
The second question is this, do you think Andy were right when he goes to the papers calling out players for their poor performances and yet benches them when they do the same and says "we are a team and that means that we don't talk to the press about our problems. We deal with it in house"?
Did Avery get benched for saying that the lineup they had in Calgary(absent Frolov) should be the lineup they go with for the rest of the season because in that game it seemed the the players actually tried?

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Do you think it is right to do that when the players whom he is calling out are having *significantly* better seasons than other players who he NEVER says a bad word about and who receive more ice time and opportunities than the ones he is critical of?
The Kings needed their best players playing at the best when the Kings needed them the most. No coach calls out the play of the role players, but they do say they need more from their top players.

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Do you think it is alright that he uses words like "accountability" for some players and not for others?
Some players should be held to a higher standard than others. If they're the top players, they need to produce that way when it comes down to crunch time.

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Do you think he is right when he says "we are in the what have you done for me lately business" in regards to Frolov when he (frolov) were producing more than any of our other forwards save Avery and Lappy and not to use the same phylosophy for his self as well as other players on the team?
What's Murray supposed to do to himself? He can't bench himself.

What do you define as "lately"? Is it the last 10 games? The last game? I don't know what Murray means by the word lately. He could mean almost anything.

And he's called out other players too. After a month of saying Stumpel was their best forward, he said he had to step up his play. Same for Straka. Same for Carter. Same for Robitaille.

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If Frolov were injured and that is *the* reason he is being sat, shouldn't the Kings list him as such and not as a healthy scratch and shouldn't Andy go to the papers and either apologize for what he said about him (frolov) or at the very least let them know that Frolov is being scratched now as he isn't %100?
Where do they list Frolov as a healthy scratch? Every pregame they say he's out with an ankle injury.

And if you want to know how Murray feels about Frolov, I suggest you check out the most recent "The Hockey News". Big story on the back cover about Frolov. Other than his reluctance to shoot on occasion, Murray has nothing but great things to say about him. If you can't check it out, I'll write the article here.

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Do you feel that it is right to critisize Frolov or Straka for their "poor play" when, Straka were only given two and one half games to play on a line with his old line mates before being subjugated to playing little time on our checking lines and Frolov saw his line mates changed completely and were different every night as well as his ice time being cut down?
Are those the only two he points out? No. He's said that plenty of players haven't done what the Kings needed them to do.

And the Kings got new players in trades, got players off the IR, all at the same time. The chemistry they had prior to that was lost when so many new players came into the lineup. It happens. They had no time to figure out who could play with who. They were in such a tight race, that if a player wasn't having a good game, he might not play as much. They didn't know where to put Straka, or who to play with Stumpel, or how to use Carter. They had to rush it, nothing worked, and they went on to lose 9 straight games. Too many players came back at once. If you want to say that's evidence that Murray can't coach talent, then you're not giving Murray any room.

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Is it fair to blame Frolov for his drop off in production (which was, as stated and backed up by factual statistic support as being better than many other players who saw increases in ice time and opportunities) when, after having two games of playing with Stumpel and Straka, he was then forced to play with the worst player the Kings have had on their team all season, Anson Carter who stepped in and has lowered the production of EVERY person he has played with since becoming a King?
Was Murray supposed to know that Carter wouldn't score a goal? He tried it. He had to. Again, the Kings, out of nowhere, started to get as healthy as they've been for almost 2 years. With that many changes, you need to figure out who can play where. You blame Murray for putting players in a position to fail. Well, had he not put Carter(*****before***** we knew he wouldn't score) with players that could help him score, how is that fair to Carter? Had everyone known that Carter wouldn't even score A goal, then you have a point.

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Do you think it is the best way to reward a second year budding star who is not only the second best forward of his entry year (behind Spezza, ahead of Nash) statistically, but also the second leading scorer and plus minus player on your team under the circumstances?
What, put him with a guy they brought in at the deadline to try and push the King to the playoffs? That was before we knew Carter wouldn't score a goal. I think that's a nice reward. I think that's Murray saying that he feels pretty good about Frolov, that he'll put him with the new guy and see if they can have some chemistry. It didn't work. Nobody had any chemistry because of all the lineup changes.

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Frolov is said to have a contract that pays him an extra nice bit of dosh if he hits the 50 point plateau, he has 48 points, as his coach, after considering the fact that he has given you more then all but one of his entry draft mates have given their teams as well as more than you reckoned he would in point production and defencive play, do you think it right that Andy took away his chance at reaching the 50 point mark and his bonus?
If Frolov was thinking about a bonus when the Kings needed wins, then I'd rather not have Frolov on the team. Who cares about bonuses. That's the least of the worries.

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Do you think that is going to motivate Frolov and his team mates knowing that after all of the poor play by loads of rubbish like Belanger, Carter, Modry, Tripp, Chartran and others that he (frolov) was denied the chance to reach that rare milestone in his second year by two bloody points because "the coach wanted to send him a message?"
He sat Frolov for 1 game due to his play. He has an injured ankle. Seeing what Brown went through with an injured ankle this year, if the Kings are out of the playoffs, I'd rather not see Frolov injure the ankle worse.

And what kind of an empty milestone is 50 points? Who cares about the individual numbers. He hit 45 points in his second year. That milestone is just as good.

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What do you think the propper message is supposed to be to the player and the rest of the team when you bench them?
That nobody on the team was playing well. Someone had to be benched. Benching a role player isn't going to send that message. Frolov was benched 1 game for his play. So was Straka. Straka came back the next game. If Frolov wasn't hurt, my guess is that he would've been back in there as well. Why do I think that? Because I don't think Murray has it out for Frolov. He benched him for A game, when the Kings were basically done anyway. It's really not that big of a deal.

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04-01-2004, 08:03 PM
  #25
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Can you not see that chemistry is really off
Yes I can. And I believe that's because the Kings had almost a completely new roster after the deadline. They had no time to figure out who could play where, so they tried some combinations that ultimately didnt work. Colorado changed most of their team too. They haven't been much better than the Kings lately. Fortunately for the Avs, they had a spot locked up, and can experiment a little easier. Whereas the Kings had to win right away, or else their season was over.

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It's simple, those players are not use to each other, or styles for that matter. Again something AM can control
Exactly. Carter, Cowan, Dempsey, Miller, Visnovsky, Straka all came back at the same time, and they had to figure out, on the fly, who could play where. They didn't have enough time to do so.

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I personally don't know if you're a diehard Kings fan, or a casual viewer......either way it doesn't really matter. It's a simple point, would you rather see Frolov or Chartrand; Straka or Tripp........It seems to be the latter on both
Diehard? No. Casual? No. I've been a huge fan of the Kings for years. I follow everything they do. Of course I would rather see Frolov and Straka over Chartrand and Tripp. And if Frolov and Straka never played, I'd agree with you. But they have played. They play all the time. Would it be a good thing if Frolov had more power play time(for example)? Absolutely. Am I going to scream at the TV set if it doesn't happen? No.

I want the Kings to win. But if they don't, that's ok. If they never win the cup, that's how it goes. If I had control over how much time Frolov gets, that's one thing. But I don't. That's up to the coach and Frolov. I'm just a fan. I watch Kings hockey, and hockey in general, for the sake of watching Kings hockey and hockey in general. Again, I want the Kings to win. I want Frolov in the lineup. If it was possible, just leave Frolov on the ice for 60 minutes.

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Really, so I guess special teams mean nothing in the playoffs. Last year was a fluke year...end of story! I think goaltending is one of the most important pieces to winning championships........but it's not the only thing, you still need to score to win games
Special teams are very important come playoff time. But nothing trumps goaltending. Other than the recent version of the Red Wings(who have won 3 cups with 3 different goalies...one a hall of famer, one a possible hall of famer, and one decent goalie), you need a top of the line goaltender.

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Modry after three *****ing years finally gets benched
Well this year it was deserved. More than deserved. Last year, the Kings were out of it by February, so it didn't much matter. The year before that, the Kings were in the playoffs. There was no need to bench anyone.

Winning cures a lot of problems. When a team loses, things are magnified. When a team wins, you can live with the little things.

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No you don't need to spread the wealth
Except come playoff time, if you don't have depth, you're not going to win. Murray kept the LAPD line togther in that series against the Avs. And they might have won too. Except that Deadmarsh got hurt, and then Allison went down. They had no depth.

You can play anyone you want together on the power play. And there's nothing that says when you need to late in the game, you can't put the top players together. But over the course of the game, if you only have 1 line, it's too easy to shut your team down in the playoffs.

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They're true professionals. I don't see them acting on their impulses to taunt to their lame ass coach like he does with them
How does Murray taunt them? In practice, does he dance in a circle around the player, chanting, "you're not going to play today...nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah"? "I have all the power...ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!"? Has Murray ever benched a player for talking to the media? If he has, please refresh my memory. I'm seriously asking, because if he has, I just flat out don't remember it.

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I remember to this day Allison's quote before the beginning of last season. "If it ain't broke don't fix it." Was he calling out AM........he sure was!
Did Murray lash out at Allison for that comment? No. After that preseason, did that line start the year together before everything went wrong? Yes they did.

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