HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Zherdev awarded $3.9M (Update: Rangers walk away from ruling)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-26-2009, 02:41 PM
  #101
potvins4cups
Registered User
 
potvins4cups's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 904
vCash: 500
Problem with zherdev is, he seems like a person who if the arbitrator awards him anything between what he was making last year and let's say $3,500,000, he seems like someone that would sulk at that amount. wouldn't surprise me if the rangers let him walk regardless of what he gets awarded, other teams might be wary of dealing with him and zherdev then heads back home to the khl.

potvins4cups is offline  
Old
07-26-2009, 03:59 PM
  #102
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,265
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
Somebody gave Avery 4 years at 4 million.

Somebody is going to give Zherdev more on the open market. There will be a dozen teams lining up for him.
There are probably only a half dozen teams though with enough cap room for what he wants and whether some of them are willing to go that high is another question. I imagine he'll have at least 2 or 3 serious bidders to choose from if he goes UFA.

On Avery--he may not be the talent that Zherdev is but he affects most games he's in--in one way or another. He's not a floater and he is a pretty decent player all the same who is fairly versatile. And it wasn't the Rangers that gave him that contract--it was Dallas. And Dallas is picking up half of that for its term which means he's costing us less than $2 mil per year which is a hell of a deal when you consider how soft this team was before he returned.

eco's bones is offline  
Old
07-26-2009, 04:00 PM
  #103
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 22,753
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by potvins4cups View Post
Problem with zherdev is, he seems like a person who if the arbitrator awards him anything between what he was making last year and let's say $3,500,000, he seems like someone that would sulk at that amount. wouldn't surprise me if the rangers let him walk regardless of what he gets awarded, other teams might be wary of dealing with him and zherdev then heads back home to the khl.
Based on what?

nyr2k2 is offline  
Old
07-26-2009, 04:00 PM
  #104
FLYLine24*
 
FLYLine24*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 29,102
vCash: 500
What ever happened to the the arbitrator either picks side A or B. Not a middle number?

I thought that's how it was going to go? Or was that just an idea during the lockout?

FLYLine24* is offline  
Old
07-26-2009, 04:06 PM
  #105
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,240
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
What ever happened to the the arbitrator either picks side A or B. Not a middle number?

I thought that's how it was going to go? Or was that just an idea during the lockout?
That's how arbitration (outside of the NHL / sports) usually works, but in the NHL the arb can pick any number in the range.

__________________
"Here we can see the agression of american people. They love fighting and guns. when they wont win they try to kill us all." -HalfOfFame
HatTrick Swayze is online now  
Old
07-26-2009, 04:06 PM
  #106
lebear
I have no idea
 
lebear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 623
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
What ever happened to the the arbitrator either picks side A or B. Not a middle number?

I thought that's how it was going to go? Or was that just an idea during the lockout?
Then it would make no sense at all for Z to go with 4.5. He'd never win it. As stated before, it'll be between A and B, and Z wants to put a high number out there to increase the chance of getting somewhat more than otherwise. If the arbitrators work that way..

lebear is offline  
Old
07-26-2009, 04:13 PM
  #107
Bourne Endeavor
Moderator
( _)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)
 
Bourne Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,602
vCash: 13357
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrfan444 View Post
If we let him walk for nothing I will be PISSED.

Horrific asset management if that does indeed come to pass.
After dumping Gomez to Montreal, New York's management could do some of the stupidest things and still look fairly decent.

Kidding aside, there comes a time when you have to draw the line and paying nearly $5 million for an underacheiving player is ridiculous. Those who claim if he had an allstar like Ovechkin on his line he would produce. No one seems to recall he spent his first years in the NHL lined up with Rick Nash, who is certainly no slouch. Zherdev needs to learn you are not given a free ride and should he attempt to demand that much money, it makes the suggestion he is a money player and once he has his contract will not given much of a damn for his team. Prove your worth first, than demand high rewards. If he settled for $3 million for one year deal and netted 70-80 points, he could easily command more. If he failed to do so once again, well he is a bust.

Of course with how freely New York has handed out money, you cannot entirely blame him for playing his hand. Gomez made $7.6 million, Gaborik is going to make roughly the same, Redden is making $6.6 million and etc.

Frankly I'd say let him walk and sign someone like Tanguay for the money he wants. You are at least more likely to have results and in the case of Tanguay, could back out in a year or two should he not pan out as one would have hoped.

Bourne Endeavor is offline  
Old
07-26-2009, 04:48 PM
  #108
HockeyBasedNYC
Registered User
 
HockeyBasedNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Here
Country: United States
Posts: 12,857
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
After dumping Gomez to Montreal, New York's management could do some of the stupidest things and still look fairly decent.

Kidding aside, there comes a time when you have to draw the line and paying nearly $5 million for an underacheiving player is ridiculous. Those who claim if he had an allstar like Ovechkin on his line he would produce. No one seems to recall he spent his first years in the NHL lined up with Rick Nash, who is certainly no slouch. Zherdev needs to learn you are not given a free ride and should he attempt to demand that much money, it makes the suggestion he is a money player and once he has his contract will not given much of a damn for his team. Prove your worth first, than demand high rewards. If he settled for $3 million for one year deal and netted 70-80 points, he could easily command more. If he failed to do so once again, well he is a bust.

Of course with how freely New York has handed out money, you cannot entirely blame him for playing his hand. Gomez made $7.6 million, Gaborik is going to make roughly the same, Redden is making $6.6 million and etc.

Frankly I'd say let him walk and sign someone like Tanguay for the money he wants. You are at least more likely to have results and in the case of Tanguay, could back out in a year or two should he not pan out as one would have hoped.
Thats money they commanded on the open market though, when many teams were bidding for one player. This is a different scenario here, though you cant blame the guy for shooting for the stars, i would think that if Z had any aspirations for playing only in New York, he would realize that to make it work he might have to settle for a little less..

HockeyBasedNYC is offline  
Old
07-26-2009, 04:50 PM
  #109
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,240
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
Frankly I'd say let him walk and sign someone like Tanguay for the money he wants. You are at least more likely to have results and in the case of Tanguay, could back out in a year or two should he not pan out as one would have hoped.
Our top-9 without Zherdev is already pretty jammed as it is, I don't really see a need to sign Tanguay. All I was saying is that walking away from the award would piss me off because if Sather knew how much Z wanted (and knew it wouldn't fit into our budget) he should have traded him a month ago. If they can't keep him, they should get something for him - letting him walk for nothing would be yet another example of horric asset management.

HatTrick Swayze is online now  
Old
07-26-2009, 04:55 PM
  #110
HockeyBasedNYC
Registered User
 
HockeyBasedNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Here
Country: United States
Posts: 12,857
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrfan444 View Post
Our top-9 without Zherdev is already pretty jammed as it is, I don't really see a need to sign Tanguay. All I was saying is that walking away from the award would piss me off because if Sather knew how much Z wanted (and knew it wouldn't fit into our budget) he should have traded him a month ago. If they can't keep him, they should get something for him - letting him walk for nothing would be yet another example of horric asset management.
+1

Losing Zherdev (and Tyutin in the process) for nothing would be nothing short of disastrous, besides the fact that you gain cap room.

HockeyBasedNYC is offline  
Old
07-26-2009, 05:25 PM
  #111
Fire Sather
Play Like a Pug
 
Fire Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 18,740
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to Fire Sather
he could submit any number he wants, i still highly doubt he makes over 4..

Fire Sather is offline  
Old
07-26-2009, 06:27 PM
  #112
darko
Registered User
 
darko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Country: Australia
Posts: 29,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
From his cap hit of $3.25 to a salary of $4.5 is almost a 40% raise (Actually 38.46%, so I rounded up ). A 40% raise for a player who is still an RFA mind you. Who had 58pts (down 3 pts from the previous season) and disapeared in the playoffs..
+1

I would give Nick somewhere between 3.25 - 3.80. Anything higher than that no thanks...

darko is offline  
Old
07-26-2009, 07:21 PM
  #113
pwoz
Registered User
 
pwoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,461
vCash: 500
I'd give Z a nice contract if the cap going up another $5m this season (and after next), but it only went up $100k and might go down next year.

Must be nice to be a baseball fan.

pwoz is offline  
Old
07-26-2009, 07:38 PM
  #114
BrandNewDream
Registered User
 
BrandNewDream's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Bayonne, NJ
Country: Poland
Posts: 1,278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
+1

Losing Zherdev (and Tyutin in the process) for nothing would be nothing short of disastrous, besides the fact that you gain cap room.
Why does everyone on here whine about asset management? I mean, I know that you can't simply let you players walk for nothing all of the time. But, Tyutin was deemed expendable and shipped off for a player who was somewhat of a risk in Zherdev. The Rangers made the trade, hoping it would work out, and KNOWING ALL ALONG that Zherdev was an RFA and could not be with the team this year. Just because he elected for arbitration it would be horrible asset management to walk away? The Rangers knew this was a possibility all along.

It's sports. Not every deal will work out. As Rangers fans, we certainly know that. Not every trade will work out, and even if a player you trade away turns into a superstar, we can only assume that they were gotten for value at the time (and yes, cap space is another commodity that can be gained as part of a trade, even if the player/pick return for an asset is not deemed "worthy"). It's too difficult to try an ensure that you will be "winning" every trade like we did with the Gomez deal (although that was an absolute fleecing). It's also too difficult to ensure that every move you make is done for something in return. What if the Rangers want to walk away from Zherdev because they feel Grachev is ready to take his place? (Just an example!!!) Is that not one form of asset management, and if it works out, isn't it GOOD asset management?

We know, according to Rangers Report, that Slats has been discussing trades with teams based on Zherdev's salary. If they work out a deal with another club, then that's great asset management. But if no market existed (I know one does here), it's better to walk if the Rangers don't want him than to accept an offer just because we be losing him for "nothing". What if no deal could be had? Could the cap space not be better used someplace else?

For what it's worth, I'm sure you guys all would say that it was horrible asset management to trade Tyutin for Zherdev if he signed with a KHL team earlier this summer.

BrandNewDream is offline  
Old
07-26-2009, 08:41 PM
  #115
bobbop
Henrik's Pop
 
bobbop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Suburban Phoenix
Country: United States
Posts: 4,818
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
What ever happened to the the arbitrator either picks side A or B. Not a middle number?

I thought that's how it was going to go? Or was that just an idea during the lockout?
Actually that's how it used to work in the NHL, but it was changed in more recent CBAs.

bobbop is offline  
Old
07-26-2009, 08:52 PM
  #116
bobbop
Henrik's Pop
 
bobbop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Suburban Phoenix
Country: United States
Posts: 4,818
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Section311 View Post
We could submit a bid lower than his qualifier?
I glanced at the CBA and couldn't find anything that says the Rangers are required to offer the qualifying offer amount. That offer has expired. Nick may regret not having signed it.

bobbop is offline  
Old
07-26-2009, 09:24 PM
  #117
beastly115
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
I glanced at the CBA and couldn't find anything that says the Rangers are required to offer the qualifying offer amount. That offer has expired. Nick may regret not having signed it.
No chance he gets below his 3.25 QO. None. Zero. Zilch. We've all see the comparables. He'll get 3.75-4M.

beastly115 is offline  
Old
07-26-2009, 09:24 PM
  #118
Kovy274Hart
Registered User
 
Kovy274Hart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Shaolin
Country: United States
Posts: 1,498
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Kovy274Hart
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
What ever happened to the the arbitrator either picks side A or B. Not a middle number?

I thought that's how it was going to go? Or was that just an idea during the lockout?
I forgot about that. Honestly, a good result should come somewhere in the middle.

Ex.Zherdev asks for 4.5 and the Rangers stick with the 3.25 qualifier.

His reward likely will be 3.75 or up. Either way, he's not returning.

Kovy274Hart is offline  
Old
07-26-2009, 09:29 PM
  #119
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,240
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandNewDream View Post
Why does everyone on here whine about asset management?
Because in the new NHL (with its limited budget), you have to get the most value out of every asset in your organization to be successful long term. And because of late the Rangers have made some questionable moves in that department.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandNewDream View Post
I mean, I know that you can't simply let you players walk for nothing all of the time. But, Tyutin was deemed expendable and shipped off for a player who was somewhat of a risk in Zherdev. The Rangers made the trade, hoping it would work out, and KNOWING ALL ALONG that Zherdev was an RFA and could not be with the team this year.
I personally am not commenting on the original deal. I stood behind it then and though it clearly looks like it won't pan out I refuse to abuse the benefit of hindsight to rip Sather for the move. I'm upset at the possibility of losing a quality asset for nothing NOW when clearly other arrangements could have been made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandNewDream View Post
Just because he elected for arbitration it would be horrible asset management to walk away? The Rangers knew this was a possibility all along.

What if the Rangers want to walk away from Zherdev because they feel Grachev is ready to take his place? (Just an example!!!) Is that not one form of asset management, and if it works out, isn't it GOOD asset management?
If the Rangers feel Grachev is ready to take Z's place, fine by me. But you shouldn't let a guy walk for NOTHING. If Gomez can be moved, you bet your ass we could get something of value for Zherdev - and probably could have gotten more at the draft if Sather had spoken with Z's agent and knew he would be demanding too much. It is never "good" asset management to lose an effective player (who isn't a UFA and you have leverage over) for nothing, period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandNewDream View Post
We know, according to Rangers Report, that Slats has been discussing trades with teams based on Zherdev's salary. If they work out a deal with another club, then that's great asset management. But if no market existed (I know one does here), it's better to walk if the Rangers don't want him than to accept an offer just because we be losing him for "nothing". What if no deal could be had? Could the cap space not be better used someplace else?
Again, maybe management believes the cap space could be better used elsewhere (I'm not buying it...IMO Z >>> Kotalik...but I'm not the GM). If that is the case, by all means I hope Sather plans on trading Z. But in this case, where a market clearly exsists (or at the very least certainly exsisted), letting an asset walk would be mornic.

HatTrick Swayze is online now  
Old
07-26-2009, 10:38 PM
  #120
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,011
vCash: 500
I would really doubt Sather lets Zherdev go without getting something back. I would expect something like a 3.6 million dollar salary for 1 season and he will be traded for something of value.

NYR Viper is offline  
Old
07-26-2009, 10:44 PM
  #121
NY Ranger86
Registered User
 
NY Ranger86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ryan = Cup
Posts: 921
vCash: 500
I really hope Murray's waiting for the arbitration award. Get us HEATER!

NY Ranger86 is offline  
Old
07-27-2009, 12:04 AM
  #122
RegalRangers
Registered User
 
RegalRangers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 1,447
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandNewDream View Post
Why does everyone on here whine about asset management? I mean, I know that you can't simply let you players walk for nothing all of the time. But, Tyutin was deemed expendable and shipped off for a player who was somewhat of a risk in Zherdev. The Rangers made the trade, hoping it would work out, and KNOWING ALL ALONG that Zherdev was an RFA and could not be with the team this year. Just because he elected for arbitration it would be horrible asset management to walk away? The Rangers knew this was a possibility all along.

It's sports. Not every deal will work out. As Rangers fans, we certainly know that. Not every trade will work out, and even if a player you trade away turns into a superstar, we can only assume that they were gotten for value at the time (and yes, cap space is another commodity that can be gained as part of a trade, even if the player/pick return for an asset is not deemed "worthy"). It's too difficult to try an ensure that you will be "winning" every trade like we did with the Gomez deal (although that was an absolute fleecing). It's also too difficult to ensure that every move you make is done for something in return. What if the Rangers want to walk away from Zherdev because they feel Grachev is ready to take his place? (Just an example!!!) Is that not one form of asset management, and if it works out, isn't it GOOD asset management?

We know, according to Rangers Report, that Slats has been discussing trades with teams based on Zherdev's salary. If they work out a deal with another club, then that's great asset management. But if no market existed (I know one does here), it's better to walk if the Rangers don't want him than to accept an offer just because we be losing him for "nothing". What if no deal could be had? Could the cap space not be better used someplace else?

For what it's worth, I'm sure you guys all would say that it was horrible asset management to trade Tyutin for Zherdev if he signed with a KHL team earlier this summer.
I could understand this attitude if we were discussing a fringe 4th liner although I would still disagree. This guy is a 25 year old 60 point scorer. There is always a market for that. Even if we signed him and traded him away for one draft pick it would be a better move. Why take nothing when you could have something? Even if we had just won the cup and were a favorite to repeat I would do everything in my power to get a return. Just because a guy doesn't fit on the team doesn't mean you don't demand a return for him. Just ask Bryan Murray. Heatley will be a senator until murray feels he's getting a fair return.

Even one single draft pick for Zherdev would be a better move than letting him walk. Think about it like this - how many lotto tickets would you prefer to have? One or Zero?


Last edited by RegalRangers: 07-27-2009 at 12:10 AM.
RegalRangers is offline  
Old
07-27-2009, 12:12 AM
  #123
bobbop
Henrik's Pop
 
bobbop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Suburban Phoenix
Country: United States
Posts: 4,818
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
No chance he gets below his 3.25 QO. None. Zero. Zilch. We've all seen the comparables. He'll get 3.75-4M.
I'd be surprised if his settlement is below $3.25MM but my point is that unless I am missing something, the Rangers are not bound to offer $3.25MM. And it may make sense that the Rangers will put a lower number on the table to balance what they see as an egregiously high number from Z. Let's say the Rangers offer $2.5MM (his 3 year contract average) and Z says $4.5MM. The arbitor may still choose to split the difference. Yes, I've seen the comparables but a lot of the analysis I read here is suspect and I don't believe I can put myself in understanding how a third party will view the respective arguments. Keep in mind that many of the comparables stated include a player giving up some UFA time (all of a sudden not so comparable) and Z's shortcomings; like no points in 7 playoff games will be discussed at length. That will be part of the Rangers presentation. And also remember, this is the same management team that went aggressively after Sean Avery in arbitration two years ago. This won't be pretty. (Can't wait to read Brooks on Sunday to hear some of the quotes) That's a taste of what's in store for Z on Friday.


Last edited by bobbop: 07-27-2009 at 12:20 AM.
bobbop is offline  
Old
07-27-2009, 06:23 AM
  #124
RangerBoy
1994 FOREVER
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,545
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
What ever happened to the the arbitrator either picks side A or B. Not a middle number?

I thought that's how it was going to go? Or was that just an idea during the lockout?
The NHL and NHLPA chickened out and kept the old format. MLB has the other system and players hardly file for arbitration. In the NHL system, the player always gets a raise.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
07-27-2009, 06:26 AM
  #125
RangerBoy
1994 FOREVER
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,545
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
I glanced at the CBA and couldn't find anything that says the Rangers are required to offer the qualifying offer amount. That offer has expired. Nick may regret not having signed it.
If the Rangers walk away,will another team offer $3.25 million for 1 season? Money around the NHL is tight. Most of the teams have spent their money. Some teams have to shed salary to be in compliance with the cap.

RangerBoy is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:44 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.