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CGY Trades Wayne Primeau to TOR for Colin Stuart, Anton Stralman + CGY 2nd 2011

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Old
07-27-2009, 11:49 PM
  #51
Oiler Crude
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I think Tambo should start tapping Sutters phones, find out who he talks too, what he says. Maybe call those guys instead of Slats & Howson ( who I think maybe we should have kept instead of Lowe ! ) . Maybe we could pay Sutter to teach Tambo how to make moves, at least till he "can snatch the pebble from Sutters hand".

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07-28-2009, 03:12 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by CorpseFX View Post
he was probably sweating drafting Kadri. "this guy sounds like a ******* terrorist... at least he was born in Ontario. Don will be as torn as i am."
LMAO, no love for this epic comment?

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07-28-2009, 06:27 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
The word out of Toronto is Burke is working on another big deal. We'll see.
But this is always the word out of Toronto. Other than Kaberle, what more does he have to deal. It is not like Toronto has a stack of top prospects, in fact, exactly the opposite. They also have only a touch more cap space than the Oilers.

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07-28-2009, 07:46 AM
  #54
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But this is always the word out of Toronto. Other than Kaberle, what more does he have to deal. It is not like Toronto has a stack of top prospects, in fact, exactly the opposite. They also have only a touch more cap space than the Oilers.
When you say a touch more cap space you're referring to the $3 million more? They also don't have a series of RFAs left to sign like we do. The Leafs have Hollweg left to sign and we have Smid, Brule, Potulny and Schremp to sign. That is going to take a bite out of our cap space, especially for Smid. Toronto is in a better position to swing another deal. Their team is still terrible and no one will want much of what they have to offer, but they do have a better cap picture to play with.

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07-28-2009, 09:45 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
But this is always the word out of Toronto. Other than Kaberle, what more does he have to deal. It is not like Toronto has a stack of top prospects, in fact, exactly the opposite. They also have only a touch more cap space than the Oilers.
"While trading a 23-year-old prospect such as Stralman for a 33-year-old will raise a few eyebrows, the truth is that the young Swede didn't have much of a future in Toronto. While he played well on the world stage for his home country, Wilson never really warmed to him and he was mired in 10th on the defensive depth chart.

Burke wrote last night that he is still looking to move another defenceman, or at least listening to offers, though last week he said he'd be "shocked" if Tomas Kaberle wasn't on Toronto's opening night roster.

"(It's) still crowded back there," he said. The Leafs have nine defencemen who will arrive at camp with realistic expectations of being on the NHL roster."


http://www.thestar.com/article/672714

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07-28-2009, 08:18 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by 4th_Liner View Post
because i hate how people are naive enough to think this team needs more bottom liners.. we did not suck last season because our damn 3rd and 4th liners.. we sucked because of sucky top 2 lines.. now instead of blowing chunks on grinders, we need to use cap space on getting tanguay..
Our PK and FO% sucked last season, if those areas would have been above league average the Oilers would have easily made the playoffs and would have been a tough matchup in the playoffs.

Tanguay would be nice and shiny but would not solve any of the oilers problems.

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07-28-2009, 08:56 PM
  #57
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Has nothing to do with it. Sutter is successful at making these kinds of deals because he's not just focused on one player or one potential deal.

I think so much time and energy has been spent on Heatley that unless something changes, the OIlers have lost their focus.
Do you really think that's it? I can't accept that.

Suppose for a moment that as if by some plot-twist appropriate to an episode of Bewitched*, Dany Heatley somehow decided that Edmonton is the place he needs to be, surely it has occured to somebody in there that we're going to have to ditch some salary anyway.

Like, what the crap. It has been 4 weeks since pursuing TehHeaterman~~! took any effort. What are they doing in there? Sitting around trying to force the phone to ring by staring at it?

I see only two possibilities. Either Nilsson and Staios are completely untradable, or management do not want to trade Nilsson and Staios.


If Nilsson and Staios really are untradable, that's probably the most damning thing can imagine about Lowe's contracts. I mean, Sutter was just able to trade a guy who got paid just about HALF A MILLION DOLLARS PER POINT last season... and he's better value than Rowbear and Staios? WOW!!

The other possibility is that management just isn't trying to move those guys. Maybe management just isn't trying to move anybody at all. And if that's the case, then what does that say about our management as a group?


(* Bewitched-- it was this old sitcom about a bumbling hockey executive who's married to a real honest to gosh witch. She's really cute, and she always tried to use her magical powers to help her husband succeed and keep his job, even though he was more or less incompetent.)

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07-28-2009, 09:00 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Yanner39 View Post
Has nothing to do with it. Sutter is successful at making these kinds of deals because he's not just focused on one player or one potential deal.

I think so much time and energy has been spent on Heatley that unless something changes, the OIlers have lost their focus.
I dont know, they signed Khabibulin during the height of Heatley negotiations. Its possible though, as the cap hit that Heatley brings and the players that are earmarked to go the other way may well be tying up other potential deals.

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07-28-2009, 09:11 PM
  #59
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Just to give you guys a little more information on the situation. Stralman lost his waiver exemption this season and wasn't going to make the team out of camp (obviously). When he came over from Sweden he figured he was coming to jump into the NHL right away and didn't want anything to do with the AHL. That was three years ago. Because he would need to clear waivers to come up during an injury, he probably wouldn't see much NHL time this season when there are other defensemen that can go back and forth between the leagues.

At this point and in the position Stralman was in, he was a definite flight risk. I'm not upset at getting a 2nd round pick for him, considering we got the same for Moore and Antropov last deadline.

The missing piece of info when the trade happened was his waiver eligibility. He's either making the Flames this season or he's going to get to know the town of Abbotsford quite well.

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07-28-2009, 09:15 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie View Post
Do you really think that's it? I can't accept that.

Suppose for a moment that as if by some plot-twist appropriate to an episode of Bewitched*, Dany Heatley somehow decided that Edmonton is the place he needs to be, surely it has occured to somebody in there that we're going to have to ditch some salary anyway.

Like, what the crap. It has been 4 weeks since pursuing TehHeaterman~~! took any effort. What are they doing in there? Sitting around trying to force the phone to ring by staring at it?

I see only two possibilities. Either Nilsson and Staios are completely untradable, or management do not want to trade Nilsson and Staios.


If Nilsson and Staios really are untradable, that's probably the most damning thing can imagine about Lowe's contracts. I mean, Sutter was just able to trade a guy who got paid just about HALF A MILLION DOLLARS PER POINT last season... and he's better value than Rowbear and Staios? WOW!!

The other possibility is that management just isn't trying to move those guys. Maybe management just isn't trying to move anybody at all. And if that's the case, then what does that say about our management as a group?


(* Bewitched-- it was this old sitcom about a bumbling hockey executive who's married to a real honest to gosh witch. She's really cute, and she always tried to use her magical powers to help her husband succeed and keep his job, even though he was more or less incompetent.)
I think this nails it.

Katz wants a marquee player who can sell merchandise and keep the "faith" alive but otherwise Quenney wants to assess what we've got.

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07-28-2009, 09:54 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
I think this nails it.

Katz wants a marquee player who can sell merchandise and keep the "faith" alive but otherwise Quenney wants to assess what we've got.
I think it's more the latter than the former... and people accuse me of being cynical

I don't have a problem with the coaching staff wanting to evaluate all the players on their own merits with a clean slate. The question is how does management respond to the assessments that "Quenney" (that's a new one) make?

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07-28-2009, 11:10 PM
  #62
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I think it's more the latter than the former... and people accuse me of being cynical

I don't have a problem with the coaching staff wanting to evaluate all the players on their own merits with a clean slate. The question is how does management respond to the assessments that "Quenney" (that's a new one) make?
I would guess the assessment is about a year away.

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07-28-2009, 11:33 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
I think this nails it.

Katz wants a marquee player who can sell merchandise and keep the "faith" alive but otherwise Quenney wants to assess what we've got.
So, a quick rundown. We gave Tambellini a year for assessment, now we're going to give "Quenney" a year as well? Is there anyone else that needs to look at this team going forward? May as well bring them in now.

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07-28-2009, 11:42 PM
  #64
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If bringing in a new coach meant that management had to sit around and do nothing until the coach "got a feel for the team", it sure would have been nice if the new coach and "feeling up" process could have been done in March so that we could make moves this summer.

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07-29-2009, 01:55 AM
  #65
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If bringing in a new coach meant that management had to sit around and do nothing until the coach "got a feel for the team", it sure would have been nice if the new coach and "feeling up" process could have been done in March so that we could make moves this summer.
Or, when the GM was going through his own feeling out process.

Replacing the GM and not the coach is just delaying the inevitable.

Clear lack of direction.

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07-29-2009, 02:31 AM
  #66
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I would guess the assessment is about a year away.
But then they need something to compare the assesment to which will take another year. Then they need to conduct a study of the results and compare this with the possibility of doing nothing. Then they will find that doing nothing is the most prudent course of action.

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07-29-2009, 06:26 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
"While trading a 23-year-old prospect such as Stralman for a 33-year-old will raise a few eyebrows, the truth is that the young Swede didn't have much of a future in Toronto. While he played well on the world stage for his home country, Wilson never really warmed to him and he was mired in 10th on the defensive depth chart.

Burke wrote last night that he is still looking to move another defenceman, or at least listening to offers, though last week he said he'd be "shocked" if Tomas Kaberle wasn't on Toronto's opening night roster.

"(It's) still crowded back there," he said. The Leafs have nine defencemen who will arrive at camp with realistic expectations of being on the NHL roster."


http://www.thestar.com/article/672714
I fully understand why Stralman was dealt and agree that he likely does not make the Leafs this year. But not long ago he was considered one of the Leafs top prospects, together with a guy like Justin Pogge. But now the cupboard is pretty much bare if you don't count the guys like Schenn that are going to be forced to carry much bigger load in the NHL than they should be at this point in their careers.

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07-29-2009, 07:35 AM
  #68
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I fully understand why Stralman was dealt and agree that he likely does not make the Leafs this year. But not long ago he was considered one of the Leafs top prospects, together with a guy like Justin Pogge. But now the cupboard is pretty much bare if you don't count the guys like Schenn that are going to be forced to carry much bigger load in the NHL than they should be at this point in their careers.
When you say not too long ago you mean a month ago. It is amazing at how quickly the fortunes of Stralman have changed in a short month. He went from one of the best young defensemen not in the NHL to being a complete bust and not making the Leafs defense this year. Pogge went from a highly regarded goaltending prospect to a guy that struggles to put his skates on by himself. Something doesn't sound right there.

I think the Toronto situation is mess. Burke has come in and completely messed up the organization. His ego is so big that he is burning the team to the ground and to hell with anyone who was not on his draft list over the years. I mean, look at Toronto's roster and tell me that he has any plan. He's got six defensemen making close to $3 million or more and most of them suck. Finger, Van Ryn and Exelby are all terrible defensemen but are guaranteed a spot on the roster because they are paid huge dollars. These guys make Staios look like Bobby Orr with an entry level contract. Then you have the hype and special handling of Schenn and you have a complete debacle on the blueline. This would be like us giving away Chorney or Peckham because we were paying Staios and Strudwick $3 million each and couldn't find a suitor for them. If this was the Oilers blueline we would be at the doors of Rexall with torches and pitchforks.

The Pogge situation is equally bizarre. The Leafs signed this over hyped Swede and now their dumping all over Pogge. I kind of feel for the kid. He's been caught in a development system even worse than ours. It wasn't like he's been bad in the minors or has not shown growth along the way. It ust seems that Burke has pinned his hopes on this Swedish kid and he has to pump him up while marginalizing the pieces that pre-existed him to make his decisions look better.

I think that we should take advantage of the fire sale and try to scoop up whatever else Burke may be willing to toss aside. Pogge would be a good gamble. You can never have too much goaltending and JDD is still a question mark himself. If worst comes to worst we have guy that could compete with Dubnyk in the AHL. Maybe we could get Burke to cough up a guy like Stempniak for us taking Pogge off his hands. Bottom line here is that players don't turn into garbage over night. Two highly regarded prospects a month ago do not go south that quick. Something else is going on in Toronto.

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07-29-2009, 07:52 AM
  #69
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Finger, Van Ryn and Exelby are all terrible defensemen but are guaranteed a spot on the roster because they are paid huge dollars.
I am no Leaf apologist, but Exelby is not a terrible defenseman...not by a longshot.

Tough as nails, defense first, shut down guy. All for 1.4 million a year seems like a really solid addition for them.

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07-29-2009, 08:01 AM
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so much for the genius of Sutter. This is just a salary dump - it is costing him a 2nd round pick to get rid of Primeau. Stralman was 10th on the depth chart in Toronto and will not make the Flames.

Since he is waiver elligable, the best hope for the Flames is that someone claims him so he is off their 50 contract max. He has negative value.

They have no first or 2nd round pick next year and no 2nd round pick the year after that. The Flames are no officially the Toronto Maple Leafs of the West.

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07-29-2009, 08:32 AM
  #71
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I am no Leaf apologist, but Exelby is not a terrible defenseman...not by a longshot.

Tough as nails, defense first, shut down guy. All for 1.4 million a year seems like a really solid addition for them.
We'll just have to disagree on that point. Exelby wouldn't make the Oilers defense and we're desperate for the type of defenseman you claim him to be. There isn't a single aspect of Exelby's game that is above average. Staios is light years better than him. If Exelby is on your blueline you have big problems.

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so much for the genius of Sutter. This is just a salary dump - it is costing him a 2nd round pick to get rid of Primeau. Stralman was 10th on the depth chart in Toronto and will not make the Flames.
10th on the Leafs depth chart? Wow, he keeps slipping and slipping as the hours go by. It really is amazing that a quality kid like Stralman is now one of the worst players around and we yet we continually give opportunities to guys like Schremp. Stralman is a good player, has always been a good player and will continue to be a good player regardless of what team he plays for. If we weren't so top heavy in offensive defenseman he's the type of guy would could have grabbed. He would probably make our opening day roster or at worst be our first call up. He's a solid depth player with potential to still step up. Or are you saying that Peckham and Chorney are garbage too?

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Since he is waiver elligable, the best hope for the Flames is that someone claims him so he is off their 50 contract max. He has negative value.
If he has negative value then why would anyone pick him up? It also seems that there would be lots of interest if he were made available based on reactions on this site, and that includes the vindictive comments from the fans who hate the Leafs.

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They have no first or 2nd round pick next year and no 2nd round pick the year after that. The Flames are no officially the Toronto Maple Leafs of the West.
If the Flames are the Maple Leafs of the west, what does that make us? The New York Islanders?

Draft picks come and go, so I wouldn't be all excited about that. Sutter has shown in each and every draft that he is capable of finding a draft pick if he wants a player. I wouldn't be dancing on the grave of someone that isn't even dead (or sick for that matter). That will come back to bite you in the ass.

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07-29-2009, 08:49 AM
  #72
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10th on the Leafs depth chart? Wow, he keeps slipping and slipping as the hours go by. It really is amazing that a quality kid like Stralman is now one of the worst players around and we yet we continually give opportunities to guys like Schremp. Stralman is a good player, has always been a good player and will continue to be a good player regardless of what team he plays for. If we weren't so top heavy in offensive defenseman he's the type of guy would could have grabbed. He would probably make our opening day roster or at worst be our first call up. He's a solid depth player with potential to still step up. Or are you saying that Peckham and Chorney are garbage too?
according to the Torontop star article, he was 10th on the leafs depth chart. He wouldn't make the team and would have to be exposed to waivers.

Peckham and Chorney are waiver exempt so there can be no comparison.


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If he has negative value then why would anyone pick him up? It also seems that there would be lots of interest if he were made available based on reactions on this site, and that includes the vindictive comments from the fans who hate the Leafs.
I think someone will pick him up. At best, his value is zero and I cannot see how he makes the flames roster and will be lost to waivers. WOrst case is he isn't claimed and the flames waste a contract on him

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Draft picks come and go, so I wouldn't be all excited about that. Sutter has shown in each and every draft that he is capable of finding a draft pick if he wants a player. I wouldn't be dancing on the grave of someone that isn't even dead (or sick for that matter). That will come back to bite you in the ass.
in the last 6 drafts, the combined total points scored by flames' draft picks is 57. Sutter is very poor at drafting. He hasn't done anything since the dion 7 years ago. Even then, he got the 3rd of three top ranked dmen. Not real hard to do. Sutter, Coburn, and the dion were 100 % a given as the three top dmen. Sutter drafted the dion as the leftover when the other two were already taken.

Every expert (except Sutter) now considers building through the draft as the only way to compete in a salary cap world.

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07-29-2009, 09:26 AM
  #73
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When you say not too long ago you mean a month ago. It is amazing at how quickly the fortunes of Stralman have changed in a short month. He went from one of the best young defensemen not in the NHL to being a complete bust and not making the Leafs defense this year. Pogge went from a highly regarded goaltending prospect to a guy that struggles to put his skates on by himself. Something doesn't sound right there.

I think the Toronto situation is mess. Burke has come in and completely messed up the organization. His ego is so big that he is burning the team to the ground and to hell with anyone who was not on his draft list over the years. I mean, look at Toronto's roster and tell me that he has any plan. He's got six defensemen making close to $3 million or more and most of them suck. Finger, Van Ryn and Exelby are all terrible defensemen but are guaranteed a spot on the roster because they are paid huge dollars. These guys make Staios look like Bobby Orr with an entry level contract. Then you have the hype and special handling of Schenn and you have a complete debacle on the blueline. This would be like us giving away Chorney or Peckham because we were paying Staios and Strudwick $3 million each and couldn't find a suitor for them. If this was the Oilers blueline we would be at the doors of Rexall with torches and pitchforks.

The Pogge situation is equally bizarre. The Leafs signed this over hyped Swede and now their dumping all over Pogge. I kind of feel for the kid. He's been caught in a development system even worse than ours. It wasn't like he's been bad in the minors or has not shown growth along the way. It ust seems that Burke has pinned his hopes on this Swedish kid and he has to pump him up while marginalizing the pieces that pre-existed him to make his decisions look better.

I think that we should take advantage of the fire sale and try to scoop up whatever else Burke may be willing to toss aside. Pogge would be a good gamble. You can never have too much goaltending and JDD is still a question mark himself. If worst comes to worst we have guy that could compete with Dubnyk in the AHL. Maybe we could get Burke to cough up a guy like Stempniak for us taking Pogge off his hands. Bottom line here is that players don't turn into garbage over night. Two highly regarded prospects a month ago do not go south that quick. Something else is going on in Toronto.
You're preachin' to the converted on this one. I am not buying that Burke is doing a great job turning the Leafs around. Personally, I think the team they had last year was better with guys like Antropov, Kubina, Moore, Steen etc (I know Burke did not make the Steen deal!). These guys simply don't fit Burke's style which is to get a bunch of tough guys and hope you can win in the back alley. People might say that it worked in Anaheim, but the Leafs right now don't have Niedermayer, Pronger, Getzlaf, Perry, McDonald, Kunitz and Selanne to fill in time between shifts by the goons.

The other thing I find hard to believe is that the Leafs will use all of their huge cap space resources to fill the holes. First off they have about enough cap space to bring in an Alex Tangauy, who while a very good player is not going to make that franchise a winner all by himself. Secondly, Burke does not have a history of being a great cap manager. Giving away someone like Andy McDonald because you have messed up the cap is not exactly the evidence I need to make me feel warm and fuzzy if I am a Leaf fan.

As an aside, while Stralman may have been down on the Leafs depth chart, he was the only defenseman in the Leaf system outside of Kaberle with an offensive upside.


Last edited by Fourier: 07-29-2009 at 09:31 AM.
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Old
07-29-2009, 10:27 AM
  #74
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according to the Torontop star article, he was 10th on the leafs depth chart. He wouldn't make the team and would have to be exposed to waivers.

Peckham and Chorney are waiver exempt so there can be no comparison.




I think someone will pick him up. At best, his value is zero and I cannot see how he makes the flames roster and will be lost to waivers. WOrst case is he isn't claimed and the flames waste a contract on him



in the last 6 drafts, the combined total points scored by flames' draft picks is 57. Sutter is very poor at drafting. He hasn't done anything since the dion 7 years ago. Even then, he got the 3rd of three top ranked dmen. Not real hard to do. Sutter, Coburn, and the dion were 100 % a given as the three top dmen. Sutter drafted the dion as the leftover when the other two were already taken.

Every expert (except Sutter) now considers building through the draft as the only way to compete in a salary cap world.
Calgary has promoted moer draft picks than edmonton last year. Probably the year before that, too.

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07-29-2009, 10:28 AM
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Reimer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
according to the Torontop star article, he was 10th on the leafs depth chart. He wouldn't make the team and would have to be exposed to waivers.

Peckham and Chorney are waiver exempt so there can be no comparison.
I think this is what Desert Oil is getting at. He is saying that Burke is spewing a bunch of garbage to the media to justify his position. Once the media reports this everyone in TO jumps on the wagon because they beleive the **** that Burkie is saying because they think he is some kind of god. How does a palyer go from being one of their highly touted prospects a few months ago to being highly expendable and 10th on the depth chart?

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