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Old
04-02-2004, 11:27 AM
  #1
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Gagne

Hi everyone. Ok, I had a bit of troubles with my Internet service over the past little while and I wanted to take the opportunity to respond to an article that was written by Panayiotis or whatever his name is. In his article, he was slagging everyone who suggested we trade Gagne and he asked where those of were who were slagging on Gagne. I'm right here. I said it before the season started that if Gagne didn't score 35 goals, his season should be considered a failure and he should be dealt. I'm still sticking to that to this day. Gagne has only caught fire as of late. He's streaky and he can sometimes float on the ice. Granted, he's a great defensive player, but this team doesn't need great defensive players. This team needs great offensive players. The trading of Justin Williams should have been the wake up call Gagne needed to kick his game into overdrive. He hasn't done it.
There was no reason why Gagne couldn't have scored 35 (or even 40 goals) this season. The argument that he was playing with Primeau doesn't hold water because Gagne's best season came with Primeau being his centerman. Don't get me wrong, Gagne is a good player. He isn't a great player though and that's the difference. When I watch Gagne play, it's the must infuriating thing to watch because HE CAN be a great player. What someone needs to do is question his commitment to being that great player. Someone needs to question if he's content just being a good player. He reminds me an awful lot of Vince Carter. Carter could very easily be the best player in the NBA, if he wanted to. Instead, Carter is quick to pass the buck onto everyone else and doesn't take the opportunity by the throat and seize it. That's Gagne in a nutshell.
Gagne has had five years now to become that top notch winger the team needs. He's been the one who has been touted as the next great Flyer and the player the team will build around. I'm sorry, but I don't think Gagne is a franchise player. He's a good player, but he isn't great. More importantly, he isn't a franchise player. It wouldn't surprise me that if the Flyers don't win the cup this year, you see Clark start dismantling the team and that Gagne be one of the first to go. He's young enough that he might fetch something decent. I think that if he does go, you'll see the team be built around Pitkanen, Esche, Carter, Richards, Ruzicka, etc..... Sorry Panayiotis, but I stand behind what I said earlier this season and I won't change that.

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Old
04-02-2004, 11:38 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan10
Hi everyone. Ok, I had a bit of troubles with my Internet service over the past little while and I wanted to take the opportunity to respond to an article that was written by Panayiotis or whatever his name is. In his article, he was slagging everyone who suggested we trade Gagne and he asked where those of were who were slagging on Gagne. I'm right here. I said it before the season started that if Gagne didn't score 35 goals, his season should be considered a failure and he should be dealt. I'm still sticking to that to this day. Gagne has only caught fire as of late. He's streaky and he can sometimes float on the ice. Granted, he's a great defensive player, but this team doesn't need great defensive players. This team needs great offensive players. The trading of Justin Williams should have been the wake up call Gagne needed to kick his game into overdrive. He hasn't done it.
There was no reason why Gagne couldn't have scored 35 (or even 40 goals) this season. The argument that he was playing with Primeau doesn't hold water because Gagne's best season came with Primeau being his centerman. Don't get me wrong, Gagne is a good player. He isn't a great player though and that's the difference.
Gagne's best season came while playing with Roenick and Recchi. Gagne did have a very good year playing with Primeau & Recchi as well.

As you can see, the key is Recchi, the playmaker.

The year that Gagne played with Primeau and recchi they were our #1 line and were played as such.

This year playing with Primeau and Kapanen they were used as our checking line. Playing against the other teams top lines on every shift.


Zhamnov arrives and Gagne gets moved back to a scoring role and voila .... he's had 14 goals in his last 26 games.

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Old
04-02-2004, 11:59 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan10
Hi everyone. Ok, I had a bit of troubles with my Internet service over the past little while and I wanted to take the opportunity to respond to an article that was written by Panayiotis or whatever his name is. In his article, he was slagging everyone who suggested we trade Gagne and he asked where those of were who were slagging on Gagne. I'm right here. I said it before the season started that if Gagne didn't score 35 goals, his season should be considered a failure and he should be dealt. I'm still sticking to that to this day. Gagne has only caught fire as of late. He's streaky and he can sometimes float on the ice. Granted, he's a great defensive player, but this team doesn't need great defensive players. This team needs great offensive players. The trading of Justin Williams should have been the wake up call Gagne needed to kick his game into overdrive. He hasn't done it.
There was no reason why Gagne couldn't have scored 35 (or even 40 goals) this season. The argument that he was playing with Primeau doesn't hold water because Gagne's best season came with Primeau being his centerman. Don't get me wrong, Gagne is a good player. He isn't a great player though and that's the difference. When I watch Gagne play, it's the must infuriating thing to watch because HE CAN be a great player. What someone needs to do is question his commitment to being that great player. Someone needs to question if he's content just being a good player. He reminds me an awful lot of Vince Carter. Carter could very easily be the best player in the NBA, if he wanted to. Instead, Carter is quick to pass the buck onto everyone else and doesn't take the opportunity by the throat and seize it. That's Gagne in a nutshell.
Gagne has had five years now to become that top notch winger the team needs. He's been the one who has been touted as the next great Flyer and the player the team will build around. I'm sorry, but I don't think Gagne is a franchise player. He's a good player, but he isn't great. More importantly, he isn't a franchise player. It wouldn't surprise me that if the Flyers don't win the cup this year, you see Clark start dismantling the team and that Gagne be one of the first to go. He's young enough that he might fetch something decent. I think that if he does go, you'll see the team be built around Pitkanen, Esche, Carter, Richards, Ruzicka, etc..... Sorry Panayiotis, but I stand behind what I said earlier this season and I won't change that.

I haven't heard anyone say he was a franchise player. Maybe back when he had the 30 goal season at such a young age we thought something special might come of it. He is led and pressured into playing defence first. The guy can't turn it on and get out of position because one successful attempt equals 5 failed attempts when it doesn't work.
In a different system he would be a franchise player because he is that good. I'm happy he is a team player and believes in Hitches system at such a young age. He's not a hot dog like Kovalchuk or others who gets benched for being selfish. We don't need any hotheads on this team to upset team chemistry.

Don't get me wrong when we were talking trades last year I was all for it, as long as it was Iginla coming back the other way. Heck I said I would have traded williams and Gagne for him and still stand by it--throw in Seidenberg. Iginla in O & B would be awesome.

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Old
04-02-2004, 12:00 PM
  #4
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His season is not a failure. Wait till the playoffs are over, then decide.

Gagne doesn't float.
Quote:
he's a great defensive player, but this team doesn't need great defensive players.
lol, did you just become a Flyer fan yesterday? Who of the Flyers' forwards doesn't at least have an average two-way game?

He started warming up once he was put on Roenicks line and has continued to score. Almost all goal scorers are streaky. The arguement that he wasn't scoring b/c he was on Primeau's checking line isn't arguable it's a fact. You can't expect him to not only help shut down the other team's best line and also chip in 40 goals. Those are ridiculous expectations.

Question what? WTF are you talking about? He kept playing great defense no matter which line he was on and he kept shooting. Now the pucks are going in, and they're going in at the right time of the season.

Carter is nowhere near the best player in the NBA. He will never be the best player in the NBA nor did he ever have the potential to be the best player in the NBA. Not only are you wrong about Gagne, but also Carter. Congrats.

Who thought Gagne was a franchise player? I thought he'd be a first liner for the next 10 seasons. It's still possible, he's there right now. Furthermore, you can build around Gagne. He does so much at a well above average level. You can put him on any of your top 3 lines and not worry about that line's LW.

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04-02-2004, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan10
I said it before the season started that if Gagne didn't score 35 goals, his season should be considered a failure and he should be dealt.
You couldn't be more wrong...Gagne has good offensive skills and is suberb defensively. He has speed and youth on his side.

Don't look now but there are only 7 guys with more then 35 goals.

Nash/Iginla 40
Kovalchuk 39
St.Louis/Elias 37
Hossa 36
Hejduk 35

So guys like Naslund, Geurin, Sundin, Alfredsson, Sakic, Lecavaliier,Tkachuk, Jagr, Rex, Foresberg Etc...are all failures.

Gags is

2nd on the team in goals
6th on the team in points
5th on the team in +/-
1st on the team in GWG

I hardly call his season a failure.

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Old
04-02-2004, 12:34 PM
  #6
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40 goals nowadays = 70+ goals in the 80's and early 90's.

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Old
04-02-2004, 12:46 PM
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OK, lets say he scores 25 goals. Whay would you want to trade a 25 goal scorer who is excellent defensively, when he makes about a third what Leclair makes? I mean, Michael Handzus will probably score 25. Recci wont reach 35. Should we trade them too? I just dont see why we need to trade him because he didnt live up to some arbitrary number you pulled out of a hat?

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04-02-2004, 01:47 PM
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not to discount anyone esles opinion, but getting rid of gags because he didin't score 30 goals is one huge indication of a lack of hockey knowledge and the game today. judge him by his complete contribution to the team, not what you expect.

gags is a keeper. trading him would be a major mistake.

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Old
04-02-2004, 01:57 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donelikedinner
not to discount anyone esles opinion, but getting rid of gags because he didin't score 30 goals is one huge indication of a lack of hockey knowledge and the game today. judge him by his complete contribution to the team, not what you expect.

gags is a keeper. trading him would be a major mistake.

I agree, unless it was for Iginla and that is what I remember most people talking about.

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04-02-2004, 02:01 PM
  #10
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quick stat note..
gagne is the team leading in game winning goals

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Old
04-02-2004, 02:27 PM
  #11
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it's the wrong time to be bashing Gagne dude. he has been one of our best players down the stretch and he is scoring big goals. even in games when he isn't on the scoring sheet he is very productive for the team.

IMO, Gagne is underrated. most people look at him as a young goal scorer and don't realize all the other things that he does at a very high level.

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Old
04-02-2004, 02:37 PM
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There are always articles in the Montreal French papers about how how stupid the Habs were to take Chouinard over Gagné. The French media make him out to be a God. On a personal note, he sold me in that year where we we had the Boucher drive to the cup. What a playoff he had, awesome!!! I was guilty of trashing him a little this year as well, but i'm telling you, the Willy trade opened his eyes. He's been consistent since then.

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Old
04-02-2004, 03:16 PM
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One of the dumbest threads yet...the guy's really hitting his stride at the right time...and you want to call him a failure. News Flash...wait till he goes into a slump at least.

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04-02-2004, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club
One of the dumbest threads yet...the guy's really hitting his stride at the right time...and you want to call him a failure. News Flash...wait till he goes into a slump at least.
I was reading this thread and thinking the same thing - Gags is a top notch, young, two way player who has picked up his game - boy, lets rip him.


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Old
04-02-2004, 04:38 PM
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Like I've been saying ever since I got here:

DON'T TRADE GAGNé!!!!!!!!!!!

but some people just don't get it,like you
Gagné's been one of our best players as of late,and trading him would not only kill me,but it would kill the team

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Old
04-02-2004, 04:40 PM
  #16
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you are nuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan10
Hi everyone. Ok, I had a bit of troubles with my Internet service over the past little while and I wanted to take the opportunity to respond to an article that was written by Panayiotis or whatever his name is. In his article, he was slagging everyone who suggested we trade Gagne and he asked where those of were who were slagging on Gagne. I'm right here. I said it before the season started that if Gagne didn't score 35 goals, his season should be considered a failure and he should be dealt. I'm still sticking to that to this day. Gagne has only caught fire as of late. He's streaky and he can sometimes float on the ice. Granted, he's a great defensive player, but this team doesn't need great defensive players. This team needs great offensive players. The trading of Justin Williams should have been the wake up call Gagne needed to kick his game into overdrive. He hasn't done it.
There was no reason why Gagne couldn't have scored 35 (or even 40 goals) this season. The argument that he was playing with Primeau doesn't hold water because Gagne's best season came with Primeau being his centerman. Don't get me wrong, Gagne is a good player. He isn't a great player though and that's the difference. When I watch Gagne play, it's the must infuriating thing to watch because HE CAN be a great player. What someone needs to do is question his commitment to being that great player. Someone needs to question if he's content just being a good player. He reminds me an awful lot of Vince Carter. Carter could very easily be the best player in the NBA, if he wanted to. Instead, Carter is quick to pass the buck onto everyone else and doesn't take the opportunity by the throat and seize it. That's Gagne in a nutshell.
Gagne has had five years now to become that top notch winger the team needs. He's been the one who has been touted as the next great Flyer and the player the team will build around. I'm sorry, but I don't think Gagne is a franchise player. He's a good player, but he isn't great. More importantly, he isn't a franchise player. It wouldn't surprise me that if the Flyers don't win the cup this year, you see Clark start dismantling the team and that Gagne be one of the first to go. He's young enough that he might fetch something decent. I think that if he does go, you'll see the team be built around Pitkanen, Esche, Carter, Richards, Ruzicka, etc..... Sorry Panayiotis, but I stand behind what I said earlier this season and I won't change that.
That is fine dude! You are way wrong. Primeau is not a playmaker or finisher. Granted he did miss some great chances. 35 is just a number. Nobody on the team is even close to that mark. Let me say. You are a dead wrong . He has had 2 good playoff runs all ready. Been the best player at wjc. One of the best forwords on team canada olympic run. If you see the way he is playing now and post this wow! Get behind him dude! He is playing great.I am sorry man.

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Old
04-02-2004, 04:42 PM
  #17
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Hitch system

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Gagne's best season came while playing with Roenick and Recchi. Gagne did have a very good year playing with Primeau & Recchi as well.

As you can see, the key is Recchi, the playmaker.

The year that Gagne played with Primeau and recchi they were our #1 line and were played as such.

This year playing with Primeau and Kapanen they were used as our checking line. Playing against the other teams top lines on every shift.


Zhamnov arrives and Gagne gets moved back to a scoring role and voila .... he's had 14 goals in his last 26 games.
Pretty hard to score when u are trapping after every one goal lead.

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Old
04-02-2004, 04:46 PM
  #18
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yeah

Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
OK, lets say he scores 25 goals. Whay would you want to trade a 25 goal scorer who is excellent defensively, when he makes about a third what Leclair makes? I mean, Michael Handzus will probably score 25. Recci wont reach 35. Should we trade them too? I just dont see why we need to trade him because he didnt live up to some arbitrary number you pulled out of a hat?
My target would be 41 Get rid of gags! No tallented players allowed in Philly.

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Old
04-02-2004, 05:02 PM
  #19
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Trade him for who, exactly? I think he has had a pretty good season, considering the amount of goals NHL leaders have.

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Old
04-02-2004, 06:17 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blah
Who thought Gagne was a franchise player?
No NHL scout has ever uttered those words about Simon Gagne.

Going into the 98 draft, Gagne was projected to be a 1st or more likely 2nd line center. His defensive game was one of his selling points, as well as his blazing speed. I think it's safe to say that Gagne has exceded the expectations of being a 22nd over all draft pick.

I don't think Gagne has the talent to ever develop into a "franchise" player, a term which IMO is tossed around way too easially. Gagne should however continue to be a top tier 1st liner.

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Old
04-02-2004, 07:37 PM
  #21
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Wow, I didn't expect this kind of a response. My reasoning behind why Gagne should be traded is the five year rule. Usually, by year five, players are firmly established as to what kind of player they will be. I'm saying that from a fan standpoint and from I've seen of Gagne (and yes, I've seen the World Junior Championships, the Olympics, the Play Off run that ONE year) that Gagne should be so much more than what he is. I mean c'mon, take a look at the talent the man has. I'm not denying that the man isn't talented because he is. He is a five star talent with five star tools (to use an old baseball term). However, it seems like Simon is content being a three. We can't use the excuse of Hitchcock's system being the problem because players like Hull, Modano, Lehtinen, have all proved that you can be successful and score goals and points in the system. I don't know. This is personal opinion and personal opinion is that Simon is a good player, but it seems like he can do so much more but doesn't.

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