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Old
07-30-2009, 11:29 AM
  #26
knuck
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
The entire crew on Center Ice are the worst hockey analysts/ on-air personalities, I have ever had to listen to. They also predicted the Leafs are the only team who can give Boston a run in the North East. I actually can't listen to anything on the NHL channel any longer, its complete garbage.

Its amazing to me the NHL can put such a horrible lineup of programming together on satellite radio.

they just HAVE to be high or something

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07-30-2009, 11:30 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I haven't exactly been searching, but I'm not sure I've found a "so-called hockey expert" yet who has supported this summer's moves. I mean, granted, I don't generally have faith in any of these guys. But. They do get paid to do what we do for free. So somebody somewhere thinks they have something to say. And while you can't always trust their reasons for saying it, or have faith in their background info, shouldn't it be just a little bit suspicious if almost EVERYONE is panning Gainey's rebuild?

A lot of good stuff was done. The right fringe/depth guys were let go (the Bouillon, Dandenault, Brisebois types). Spacek, Mara, and Gill is good depth to replace and upgrade on Komisarek's loss. Cammalleri is a nice re-signing to replace your pick of Kovalev/Tanguay on the wing.

But the Gomez trade was ridiculous, everybody around the league knows it. And the payment to Gionta, which has some tendrils tracing back to the Gomez trade, was also extravagant.

An overall boost/upgrade is hoped for by us fans. But it's not clear that it exists on paper. And in the process of achieving that ambiguous state, the team has effectively cap-locked itself for several seasons, and watched some significant elements of our draft/development system move out the door (Higgins, Komisarek, McDonagh, Tanguay represent 4 1st round picks in an era when building your core via your 1st round picks is important).

So I don't really blame the so-called hockey experts who hand out darts or F's to Gainey. They may not really know all the details of what they're talking about, but on paper, the gist of what they're saying is probably a fair interpretation. Of course, I hope to heck they're wrong, and I think there's even some real potential they could turn out to be wrong. But criticisms and doubts are very fair at this point, I'd say. (Hope and optimism by Habs fans is fair too, of course).
Overall, for the immediate future Gainey changed a buck for 4 quaters. The defense is an immense improvement over last year. Cammelleri & Moen are great additions.

Where I think Gainey was out to lunch was mainly with the Gomez trade. It's not only that he traded Higgins, McDonaugh & Val The Tank but he has strapped us with a stupid contract and let go of Koivu. That was part of the deal.

The Gionta signing I'm not too happy with but I could have stomach it if he had picked up a real star centerman. For all the fanboys out there: GOMEZ IS NOT A STAR CENTERMAN.


So offensively this is what Gainey did

replaced Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay & Higgins with Gomez () Gionta () Cammelleri() & Moen ().

Who in their right mind would think this is an improvement of our offense. If, and I repeat if, it is an improvement it's marginal. Gomez & Gionta had one great year on a team that played stellar defense and were physically imposing. Gainey plans on catching lightning in a bottle a second time (Gomez & Gionta). Good luck with that Bob. We'll be crying around Xmas time how our forwards are pushed around in the offensive zone.

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Old
07-30-2009, 11:39 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by 11Goat11 View Post
Many so-called analysts are wrong year after year with their predictions, yet they still get paid for it. It's not wrong to criticize the moves but to give an F before the team has even played is just ignorant.
Even the best experts out there get a lot of predictions wrong, but don't get it twisted, they know far far more about the 30 teams as a whole then any of us. As for grading a move before the team played, well it obviously just a prediction. I'd bet my house that you have been guilty of grading moves made by other teams(and your own team) before that player has ever played with them, its only natural.

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07-30-2009, 11:43 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by 11Goat11 View Post
Many so-called analysts are wrong year after year with their predictions, yet they still get paid for it. It's not wrong to criticize the moves but to give an F before the team has even played is just ignorant.
I think a lot of critics wrote their summaries before some of the minor acquisitions were made (Mara and Moen) - while those guys don't swing the balance, I think it still says a lot of criticism is premature. A lot of the analysis stops at the Gomez trade/contract, and while that's not 100% unreasonable in the salary cap world, it's still a little frustrating to see Canadiens off-season summaries written that don't contain the name "Cammallieri".

I do think the critics are prone to groupthink, and a lot of the conventional wisdom behind who gets the high grades in reviews doesn't translate to the on-ice product. Everyone remember the TSN consensus pick for trade deadline winner? Some of Calgary's moves carry forth into this year, and I think they'll look good, but the immediate impact anticipated by the groupthink never materialized because we still have to play the hockey games.

I'll miss Koivu, I don't love the Gomez deal, and I'm a little frightened by how much of our fortune is tied to Gomez and Gionta clicking or their subsequent tradeability, but I think to consider the Canadiens a laughingstock (thanks hockeyscribe22) or a guaranteed non-playoff team is to put too many eggs in the negative basket.

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07-30-2009, 11:50 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by TheCH View Post
Even the best experts out there get a lot of predictions wrong, but don't get it twisted, they know far far more about the 30 teams as a whole then any of us. As for grading a move before the team played, well it obviously just a prediction. I'd bet my house that you have been guilty of grading moves made by other teams(and your own team) before that player has ever played with them, its only natural.
BS they know more about the 30 teams than us. I consistently read better predictions on this board than any in the mainstream media. How many of us had Boston highly rated in the last 2 years while experts had them missing the playoffs. Same for us in 08 when we were rated 13th and were 1st.

I have graded moves other teams have made but I would nevers say that something is defintely not going to work becasue who knows how the season will go. My point is the media loves to bash the Habs no matter what they do.

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Old
07-30-2009, 12:39 PM
  #31
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I disagree though on the Gomez trade. I think it was a decent one. Higgins didn't really seem to enjoy himself here anymore and seemed lost (is he a top liner?..a checker?..a fourth line specialist??), so him getting traded is no surprise. McDonagh was high on everyone's list, but his play has dropped over the past year.

We always kept mentioning how we have a lot of good D prospect, so moving some will be a necessity. I also strongly believe that trade paved the way to the many signings Gainey has done.

Komisarek signed with our nemesis only for 500k/y more than what we offered. He could have easily re-signed here if he wanted too.McDo is still a prospect far from being NHL ready, and Tanguay we tried out.

Now he went in a 180 turnaround, I guess we'll see how it turns out.
Nobody really knows how our team will perform. It'll be interesting to see Martin as well.

I agree that as a whole it may or may not be be bad moves. We will see indeed. But I can totally see why some of his moves weren't like that much. I just wanted to comment on some of the points you made.

1- McDonagh: I have no idea where is that coming from but in no way shape or form that the kid saw his play dropped last year. I saw 5ish games, Montreal saw way more, he had a tough start of the year and picked it up nicely after. He may not have progressed as he was suppose to, or as we all thought he would, but he definately not regressed.

2- Good D prospects: As we speak, the guys that seemed the sure bets to be able one day to make a difference are Weber and Subban. That's it. We have others, but as of now, only 2 in our ranks are in a special category. I don't think you can put Carle in there. And you surely can't put Fischer either. The other guy that could develop in 3 or 4 years as something relatively great is Bennett but we are far from that. So we have depth. But great D prospects? McDonagh's caliber? 2 at most right now. And McDonagh was bringing this balance that maybe only Subban can bring. Skating, defense and offense awareness though the offense is not gone from certain to questionable....

3- Komisarek: I strongly believe that Komisarek, being the fake tough that he is, was looking to play in an environment where he wouldn't be the first to answer the call if the toughness part was needed. And he said it so himself. He loves the way Burke was building the team meaning, he will still be able to crosscheck, to bodychecks, to talk but he won't have to fight since he'll be surrounded. In Montreal, chances are he'd still have to show how really tough he is....

4- Tanguay: Being a draft junkie that I am, I am still pissed to have given a 1st and a 2nd for a guy we kept 1 year and was injured most of the year....I guess Gainey wouldn't know it would turn out that way, but you do have to be judge on the actual results. Like when Gainey acquired Huet and admitted that he was just a throw-in, you still had to praise Gainey for the acquisition.

5- People cannot only praise his 180 turnaround without saying that he "turned around" his own plan that he was building. By doing that, he totally dissaproved the moves he had done. If he would have just been hired, we would have been able to say that he is cleaning up the mess that was done before him....well in that case, he is cleaning up a situation that he created. Surely, it's not all his fault, he's not scoring, he's not stopping pucks, but you are in charge and needs to be responsible at one point. And if "stopping pucks" was one of the problem, well then he clearly needs to be responsible since he's the one who thought the kid was more ready than he actually was. So I praise Gainey for his general work and his aggressiveness but I have in mind that he destroyed his own team....the team he said he had full confidence in.

5- I wasn't so glad when I heard it, but now I can't wait to see Martin at work. He might have the best recipe for most of our players.

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Old
07-30-2009, 12:56 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by sammy d View Post
So I was listening to Center Ice a week or so ago and they giving grades to all the teams GM's for the work they've done in the past year. Forget the 2 guys names, Boomer and Rossi maybe, anyways one gave Gainey an F and one an F-. They hated the Gionta and Cammellari signings, basically thought that Gainey would be gone after this year. Just another case of 2 so-called hockey "experts" commenting on something that they know very little about. Their looking at all Gainey's moves at face-value instead of trying to figure out why he did what he did, such as trying to change the atmosphere around the team. Anyways I wasn't very impressed by these 2 clowns. Anyone else hear this?
Yeah, I heard it as well and hope they have the nads to eat crow when they make their mid-season update. They also gave Minnesota's Fletcher a C and he's barely had a chance to settle in. Talk radio pundits rattling the audience for call-ins.

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Old
07-30-2009, 01:52 PM
  #33
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Why is it that they don't know anything about hockey if they give Gainey a bad grade? One poster said himself, from an outsiders point of view, it looks bad...basically meaning, from a Habs fan POV, it looks good, for one reason or another ...so, I don't see why they are automatically idiots...

Also, anyone have a link to maybe a list posted online of this?
I don't mind if someone is going to criticize the moves that Gainey made, as long as they do it for the right reasons. The only thing you can complain about is salary cap issues, with three players locking up long-term, big-dollar contracts for the next 5 years.

If these guys are going to criticize based on the team they are icing this year, they're way off. It stuns me whenever I hear that Montreal will be worse next year, will miss the playoffs, and/or will be worse than the Leafs. Astonighingly bad analysis there. Salary cap hit and big-term contracts don't show up on the scoreboard. Evaluate the talent, not the salary.

There's also a double-standard out there. How many of these same experts are chastising Philly for acquiring Pronger at the cost of a ridiculous 7-year contract for $5 million a year that can't ever be removed from the salary cap that makes an already bad salary cap situation even worse? For those complaining about what Gainey gave up for Gomez, fine, but you should also beat Holmgren down for giving up 3 first round picks and Lupul for a 35-year old Pronger while finding bargain-basement goaltending "solutions".

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Old
07-30-2009, 02:06 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by David_99 View Post
Not to go back to that trade Kovy for Gionta thread, but I personally would have rather signed Kovy at 5 Mil, because then it'd only be for 2 years. Then that 5 mil would be off the books for the youngens. Though I know, if Kovy had just signed the thing, Gainey wouldn't have had to sign 'Plan B' Gionta for 5 years. We'll see how he does. If he scores 40 goals next year, that's awesome... but what about year 3-5?

We'll probably have to trade Hamrlik in the next couple years, if there's any takers. His money and spot will be of use elsewhere by next year. So at least that's something.
I don't get why people think gionta replaced Kovy. It is cammy that was given the money ear marked for kovy when he delayed in taking it. Gainey didn't want to loose out on both and went with a first come first serve policy. Thank god he did that because I'd rather have a 27 year old, 40 goal scorer then a 37 year old 20 goal scorer for about the same price.

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07-30-2009, 02:08 PM
  #35
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My point is only that Gainey has left himself little room to manage the roster, at least in the very short term. If things go badly, there won't be a lot he can do to fix things. Yes, he could probably dump Gorges to make some room, but Gorges only makes 1.1 million. Dump Hamrlik and his 5.5 million dollar contract that might or might not have a NTC? Hmmm.

If everything goes right, then of course no changes will be needed, and Gainey's farts will be all roses again. But I think he's gambled by roster-locking himself for at least one year.
GMs have to roll the dice a bit when trying to assemble potential contender teams whether it's in UFA signings or deadline rental gambles. Gainey's gambles are much more conservative than lots of big name teams (how about NYR with Gaborik or Philly with Pronger).

Gainey has assembled a balanced team that has all the elements, proven primary guys, young secondary talent, a solid mix of size, talent & veterancy on D, likely solid goaltending, a proven coach who has taken teams deep. They are a team capable of going deep, will they spark and win playoff series'? No one knows but thats why winning the Stanley cup isn't easy but the cast is there.

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07-30-2009, 03:23 PM
  #36
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Gainey is overall pretty bad with assets management.

He gives too many huge and long contracts to undeserving players, loose a tremendous amount of players for nothing, and usually give too much in trades.

The drafts are Timmins' business.

Hi best coups are the Markov's signing and the Rivet's trade. That's about it ! Cammalleri signing might turn fine.

The Gomez trade is a desperate move.

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07-30-2009, 03:28 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Gainey is overall pretty bad with assets management.

He gives too many huge and long contracts to undeserving players, loose a tremendous amount of players for nothing, and usually give too much in trades.

The drafts are Timmins' business.

Hi best coups are the Markov's signing and the Rivet's trade. That's about it ! Cammalleri signing might turn fine.

The Gomez trade is a desperate move.
I hope Gainey was desperate, Koivu and Plekanec again =
But I think your one of these people who always whines when Gainey do nothing.

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Old
07-30-2009, 03:31 PM
  #38
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Why is it that they don't know anything about hockey if they give Gainey a bad grade? One poster said himself, from an outsiders point of view, it looks bad...basically meaning, from a Habs fan POV, it looks good, for one reason or another ...so, I don't see why they are automatically idiots...

Also, anyone have a link to maybe a list posted online of this?
I've listened to Center Ice on XM. Those guys ARE idiots, believe me.

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07-30-2009, 04:37 PM
  #39
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BS they know more about the 30 teams than us. I consistently read better predictions on this board than any in the mainstream media. How many of us had Boston highly rated in the last 2 years while experts had them missing the playoffs. Same for us in 08 when we were rated 13th and were 1st.

I have graded moves other teams have made but I would nevers say that something is defintely not going to work becasue who knows how the season will go. My point is the media loves to bash the Habs no matter what they do.
Well then you should start writing and making money off your talent. But guess what? No matter how knowledgeable and insightful you think your articles are, you will still be bashed in the exact same way as all the other writers out there do. And these writers also think their articles are knowledgeable and insightful.

At the end of the day, its their opinions and its no point in caring about it.

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07-30-2009, 09:53 PM
  #40
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I agree that as a whole it may or may not be be bad moves. We will see indeed. But I can totally see why some of his moves weren't like that much. I just wanted to comment on some of the points you made.

1- McDonagh: I have no idea where is that coming from but in no way shape or form that the kid saw his play dropped last year. I saw 5ish games, Montreal saw way more, he had a tough start of the year and picked it up nicely after. He may not have progressed as he was suppose to, or as we all thought he would, but he definately not regressed.

2- Good D prospects: As we speak, the guys that seemed the sure bets to be able one day to make a difference are Weber and Subban. That's it. We have others, but as of now, only 2 in our ranks are in a special category. I don't think you can put Carle in there. And you surely can't put Fischer either. The other guy that could develop in 3 or 4 years as something relatively great is Bennett but we are far from that. So we have depth. But great D prospects? McDonagh's caliber? 2 at most right now. And McDonagh was bringing this balance that maybe only Subban can bring. Skating, defense and offense awareness though the offense is not gone from certain to questionable....

3- Komisarek: I strongly believe that Komisarek, being the fake tough that he is, was looking to play in an environment where he wouldn't be the first to answer the call if the toughness part was needed. And he said it so himself. He loves the way Burke was building the team meaning, he will still be able to crosscheck, to bodychecks, to talk but he won't have to fight since he'll be surrounded. In Montreal, chances are he'd still have to show how really tough he is....

4- Tanguay: Being a draft junkie that I am, I am still pissed to have given a 1st and a 2nd for a guy we kept 1 year and was injured most of the year....I guess Gainey wouldn't know it would turn out that way, but you do have to be judge on the actual results. Like when Gainey acquired Huet and admitted that he was just a throw-in, you still had to praise Gainey for the acquisition.

5- People cannot only praise his 180 turnaround without saying that he "turned around" his own plan that he was building. By doing that, he totally dissaproved the moves he had done. If he would have just been hired, we would have been able to say that he is cleaning up the mess that was done before him....well in that case, he is cleaning up a situation that he created. Surely, it's not all his fault, he's not scoring, he's not stopping pucks, but you are in charge and needs to be responsible at one point. And if "stopping pucks" was one of the problem, well then he clearly needs to be responsible since he's the one who thought the kid was more ready than he actually was. So I praise Gainey for his general work and his aggressiveness but I have in mind that he destroyed his own team....the team he said he had full confidence in.

5- I wasn't so glad when I heard it, but now I can't wait to see Martin at work. He might have the best recipe for most of our players.

very good post.

Especially point #5.


The fact that the same person who built up the roster that was taken apart this offseason makes me feel just that much more uneasy about the amount of risk that is involved. If his judgement was so off that he found himself in need of making such drastic changes, should he really have been left in charge?

Time will tell, and while I hope that things work out well, but right now I cringe when i look 2-3 seasons down the road...

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07-30-2009, 10:15 PM
  #41
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Overall, for the immediate future Gainey changed a buck for 4 quaters. The defense is an immense improvement over last year. Cammelleri & Moen are great additions.

Where I think Gainey was out to lunch was mainly with the Gomez trade. It's not only that he traded Higgins, McDonaugh & Val The Tank but he has strapped us with a stupid contract and let go of Koivu. That was part of the deal.

The Gionta signing I'm not too happy with but I could have stomach it if he had picked up a real star centerman. For all the fanboys out there: GOMEZ IS NOT A STAR CENTERMAN.


So offensively this is what Gainey did

replaced Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay & Higgins with Gomez () Gionta () Cammelleri() & Moen ().

Who in their right mind would think this is an improvement of our offense. If, and I repeat if, it is an improvement it's marginal. Gomez & Gionta had one great year on a team that played stellar defense and were physically imposing. Gainey plans on catching lightning in a bottle a second time (Gomez & Gionta). Good luck with that Bob. We'll be crying around Xmas time how our forwards are pushed around in the offensive zone.
Offensively you shakeheads at Gionta and Gomez but get pumped for Moen? Errrrr What? Have you ever seen Gionta and Gomez play?

You know what Gainey did? He changed the dimension and identity of this offense. What was once a collective talent of playmakers, danglers and perimeter players, he replaced with hard working, net-driving shooters who despite their diminutive sizes will get their noses dirty. The speed is still there. The skill is still there. The make up, however, is completely revamped and I for one feel refreshed that it came.

I'd rather our forwards get pushed around in the front of the net trying to get those garbage goals than have them get pushed around on the perimeter and fail to get a shot on. I appreciate the sick passing, but after a while I'm just praying for someone to shoot.

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07-30-2009, 10:18 PM
  #42
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I can actually understand where they're coming from, not that I agree with it. It's still fresh in everyones minds what happened to TBay when they signed all their free agents (even if they didn't sign big names like Gainey did this off season). I think the Habs will prove alot of people wrong. They team we have assembled is too talented to to put up some w's. I really can't imagine missing the playoffs, no chance in hell that happens. I really just can't wait for the season to start so we can get going and see what this team will really do, chemistry shemistry this team will gel quick enoigh and have a great season

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07-30-2009, 10:33 PM
  #43
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The Gomez deal is horrendous. Period.
The Gionta deal is a horrendous overpayment (though I absolutely love Gio).

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07-30-2009, 11:00 PM
  #44
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NHL Home Ice on XM radio is watered down with some very bad hockey commentators. Many of them are journalists who ended up getting jobs on hockey shows rather than pure passionate hockey fans. Also, keep in mind that many of the shows on NHL Home ICe come from Toronto....I'm almost positive that's where Rossy and Boomer do their show from. As far as hockey knowledge goes, Rossy's half-decent (even though he craps on the Habs) but Boomer is absolutely brutal and he's one of the most negative people you'll ever hear on the air. He must have something going on in his life that's really bad for him to be so miserable.

Another thing to keep in mind is that I've never heard Bob Gainey on any of these shows while at the same time they can't keep Brian Burke away from wanting to go on the air. This likely causes many of these hosts to not like our GM but I'd rather our GM be quiet about his plans rather than go on radio shows every other day telling the world about his intentions and every trade offer he gets (like an infamous big mouth GM that we're all aware of).

I listen to NHL HomeIce on XM Radio in the car all the time only because I can't get enough of hockey talk (and what else is there to do in the car?). My listening to these shows has very little to do with the quality of the shows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCH View Post
Even the best experts out there get a lot of predictions wrong, but don't get it twisted, they know far far more about the 30 teams as a whole then any of us. As for grading a move before the team played, well it obviously just a prediction. I'd bet my house that you have been guilty of grading moves made by other teams(and your own team) before that player has ever played with them, its only natural.
You obviously don't listen to XM Radio. It's soooooo watered down with bad hosts. One of the hosts who posts on this board (hint: Slainte) recently blogged that we signed Gomez as a free agent and that the St Louis Blues are an Original Six team. These shows are bad and some of the hosts aren't worthy of talking about hockey on local community Channel 10.


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Old
07-30-2009, 11:12 PM
  #45
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very few gm's who spend money are seen as geniuses or glorified.
Most people believe that if you spend, you fail.
Montreal has never really spent and failed the last 15 years. Now when we do, we are seen as desperate.

Truth is, no one knows. What works for one person, may kill another.

I just dont get what critics think should have happened? The same people who thought the habs would finish first, saw first hand the team fail at every level last season. So should we take the "experts" word on this?

Most experts love the Pronger deal, but they have up on 3 first rounders (Sbisa), and A 30 goal scorer for a 36 yeard old D. Granted he is a great D, but how was that not overpaying? ANd they sign Emery. Yet everyone sees them as greatly improved.

The concensus is that Burke has done a great job. But what has he done? He still has 3 3rd lines, and a signed or traded for big, slow footed D. But because people like the notion of size on the back-end, they dont care.

Habs sign or trade for proven NHL players. Granted they have had some questionable periods in there career, but who dosent?
Look at the other players they "could" have gone after:

-Lecavalier- 7.7 cap hit for 11 years, 3 years in a row with off season surgery and declining numbers.
-Marleau- is he even on the block? Also 6.5 cap hit and is an FA next year. HAs been a poor playoff performer.
-Hossa- consistent scorer, but he is injured, and was signed to a 12 year deal.
-Gaborik- played 15 games all year. Makes over 7 mil a year.
-Havlat- smallish skill forward. Dosent have a mean streak- injury prone.
-Beauchemin- coming over an injury riddled season.

I guess what im trying to say is, everyone has question marks and in some ways are over-evaluated and over-paid. The real gems in this league arent going anywhere. I dont see the value in "tanking" a season, when you can spend up the cap without having to blink an eye. Im not even sure if this is what these experts are suggesting.

Everyone the habs signed is overpaid, but such is the nature of free agency. I have very little qualms about the Gomez trade as he would be the number 1 center in almost half the teams in the NHL. He gets paid a whole lot, so no matter how he does he willl neber add up to his salary, he just isnt an 8 mil player. But thats not gainey's fault and the only reason he became available was because of his contract. Why would the Rangers let him go if he was making 4-5 mil? Makes no sense.

People can say what they want, at the end of the day, its up to the coach and the players to prove people wrong. You can put all the talent in the world on the same team, but if they dont pull together, it wont make a dent.

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07-30-2009, 11:30 PM
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Schooner Guy
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Well then you should start writing and making money off your talent. But guess what? No matter how knowledgeable and insightful you think your articles are, you will still be bashed in the exact same way as all the other writers out there do. And these writers also think their articles are knowledgeable and insightful.

At the end of the day, its their opinions and its no point in caring about it.
Ever think that maybe there's a good chance he makes a lot more money and has far better job security and benefits doing something else? Talking hockey on the air for a living would be fun but I don't really think a Satellite radio glorified discjockey on NHL Home Ice is really coining it.

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07-30-2009, 11:46 PM
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I listen to NHL HomeIce on XM Radio in the car all the time only because I can't get enough of hockey talk (and what else is there to do in the car?). My listening to these shows has very little to do with the quality of the shows.
I used to be like that, now I can't listen to 204 at all, its a real shame the league can't put on a decent radio show. You know what I find as bad as anyone when it comes to talking hockey? Phil Esposito. In The Slot is one of the worst hockey shows on the radio, Esposito lost his mind 30 years ago.

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07-30-2009, 11:48 PM
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4- Tanguay: Being a draft junkie that I am, I am still pissed to have given a 1st and a 2nd for a guy we kept 1 year and was injured most of the year....I guess Gainey wouldn't know it would turn out that way, but you do have to be judge on the actual results. Like when Gainey acquired Huet and admitted that he was just a throw-in, you still had to praise Gainey for the acquisition.

5- People cannot only praise his 180 turnaround without saying that he "turned around" his own plan that he was building. By doing that, he totally dissaproved the moves he had done. If he would have just been hired, we would have been able to say that he is cleaning up the mess that was done before him....well in that case, he is cleaning up a situation that he created. Surely, it's not all his fault, he's not scoring, he's not stopping pucks, but you are in charge and needs to be responsible at one point. And if "stopping pucks" was one of the problem, well then he clearly needs to be responsible since he's the one who thought the kid was more ready than he actually was. So I praise Gainey for his general work and his aggressiveness but I have in mind that he destroyed his own team....the team he said he had full confidence in.
I agree that we gave up too much on Tanguay and I agree that Gainey admit that Gainey's overhaul of the team's core was an admission that he didn't build the team with the right personnel that he wants on the ice. Having said this, it's a good thing that Gainey came to this realization and took action....that's what you call a very strong and open-minded director in charge. Many posters here wanted Tanguay to be re-signed just because we gave up a 1st and 2nd for him. In Accounting, those picks are what you call a "sunk cost". Gainey had options to spend $5m on Tanguay (who disappointed Gainey with his lack of willingness to pay the price and his refusal to play Games 3 adn 4 despite the Medical staff telling him it was up to him) or to re-allocate those funds towards another player like Gionta who is far more of a gamer than Tanguay.

Many GM's are too stubborn to admit that the team they have built is headed in the wrong direction and don't do anything about it. Our GM took responsibility for what turned into a mess in 2008-09 and then went and did something about it (fired some of his best friends who he hired and cut loose several players who he brought in). Whether he's right or wrong in his new acquisitions, acknowledging a mess and taking the necessary steps to course correct and try to get this team back on track showed strong leadership. This is what I want in our GM.

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07-30-2009, 11:53 PM
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I used to be like that, now I can't listen to 204 at all, its a real shame the league can't put on a decent radio show. You know what I find as bad as anyone when it comes to talking hockey? Phil Esposito. In The Slot is one of the worst hockey shows on the radio, Esposito lost his mind 30 years ago.
It's obvious that Espo doesn't even follow hockey closely anymore....he's awful. It's mind boggling that he has been hired as a GM of two NHL teams.

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07-31-2009, 12:02 AM
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I don't think any of us know if Gainey's moves will work. This is going to be one interesting season. I predict if the habs go in the crapper Gainey will be gone by the end of November. Gainey has gambled and now we wait and see if his gamble has worked. I am sure the Molsons are waiting as well.

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