HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Free agency and other off-season transactions - Part III

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-04-2009, 08:15 PM
  #101
bodangleroo28
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 412
vCash: 500
cote n jones for ivan

bodangleroo28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-04-2009, 08:28 PM
  #102
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,675
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
I just posted this on the Kings board and wanted your thoughts. I could be way off-base but remember that the Philly connection with LA is substantial and they've worked on two previous salary dumps in the past (Roenick and Gauthier).
****
I was just reading the Philly board and they would really like to get rid of Jones and his $2.75mm salary cap hit. You've got to pay to play if your Philly and Carcillo could be the "premiuim" they have to pay to rid themselves of Jones's contract. Laperriere fills Carcillo's spot with substantially less crazy thrown in.

PHI: Raitis Ivanans

LA: Randy Jones, Daniel Carcillo

There is a "veteran" defenseman that some are speculating DL is looking for, Ivanans' exit paves the way for the newly minted Westgarth and Carcillo enters the competition for the 3rd LW spot. Kings become infinitely harder to play against and pick up an asset that was just acquired for a legit NHL player (Upshall) and a 2nd round pick. If Jones is terrible, he can roll as the #7 in the press box or play in Manchester where he would definitely help.

DD/Greene
JJ/Scuderi
OD/Jones
Drewiske

I'd be more comfortable with the #7 being Jones or Drewiske as opposed to Harrold. He'd be this season's Gauthier for all intents and purposes

Philly "pays" LA to take Jones but can afford to lose Carcillo with Laperriere and Asham around. Ivanans gives them a legit heavy to back up any shenanigans that the rest of the Flyers will engage in. It frees up cap space for them to operate with during the season in case they want to upgrade at the trade deadline.

Maybe LA would have to throw in a Peter Harrold so Philly wouldn't be losing depth on their blueline. He could be attractive since he only makes $500k.
Reading Eklund's mentioning that Flyers have interest in the Kings' Raitis Ivanāns I at first thought about it tying into the Lombardi's wanting Jones... While I like the Cap clearing of Jones' contract, I feel another rob job in Homer's Cap clearing.

Also, I wasn't thrilled with the veteran winger we feel the Flyers need being yet another 'goon'... Yet more fodder in the argument of the reconstruction of the Broad Street Bullies... The over-saturation point has long been reached in the tough guy department.

Reading this thread, I see the suggestion of a Carcillo for Ivanāns swap... Now, that to me makes more sense in that a goon goes as a goon comes in -- albeit it is a agitator/goon with a little kick vs a heavyweight goon with no offensive side whatsoever -- This also clears approx. a third of a mil... I could live with that.

Now we are seeing chatter of BOTH Jones and Carcillo going to LA for Raitis Ivanāns... which would mean the Upshall, Jones and a 2nd rounder left for a $600K goon... and still the need for a D-man... and a bit of a regression in the Forward department. All this is not a improvement, IMO, except for yet another Cap clear where we get taken... And I would be even more upset about what Homer turned Upshall into.




... All that said, IF Homer can move Jones' Cap and replace it with a $500K D-man AND sign a serviceable Foppa for the top six, I would be elated... But Foppa would have to be able to play most ever game -- no three on, five off crap -- at a dozen+ minutes... Which I guess might put him at 3rd line TOI range... He could be a top six player who allows another player in his spot periodically in games... BUT HE HAS TO HAVE THOSE DAMN ANKLES STABLE!!!!

Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-04-2009, 08:36 PM
  #103
Pope Pogo II
 
Pope Pogo II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 683
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Pope Pogo II Send a message via Yahoo to Pope Pogo II
Why does everyone say they want Forsberg especially if he stays healthy, when everyone knows that no matter what he says he WILL NEVER stay healthy?

Pope Pogo II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-04-2009, 08:38 PM
  #104
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,675
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pope Pogo II View Post
If the Kings want more than Randy Jones for Ivannans they can go **** themselves. I am not a Jones fan by any means, but what the ****??
Seems that people may have noted Homer's trading Upshall and a 2nd for crap, to move Cap space... and feel that Homer is a soft (in the head) touch.


... All this may be nothing more than speculation based on last years deal with the Yotes... Let me put it this way; I'm sure that it's pure speculation originated by the rumors of LA having interest in Jones and the Flyers having interest in Raitis Ivanāns, and tying the two rumors together as being related, and then adding a kicker to the Kings... since there is another rumor that Lombardi likes Carcillo.


All fantasy league crap.

Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-04-2009, 08:40 PM
  #105
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,675
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pope Pogo II View Post
Why does everyone say they want Forsberg especially if he stays healthy, when everyone knows that no matter what he says he WILL NEVER stay healthy?
Because it is human nature to fantasize about reaching a heavenly plateau.

Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-04-2009, 08:54 PM
  #106
Pope Pogo II
 
Pope Pogo II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 683
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Pope Pogo II Send a message via Yahoo to Pope Pogo II
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersJunky View Post
Because it is human nature to fantasize about reaching a heavenly plateau.
Touche!

Pope Pogo II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-04-2009, 09:12 PM
  #107
BigKing
Spot Picker
 
BigKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Belmont Shore, CA
Posts: 3,590
vCash: 500
You can stuff Jones in the minors but there is something to be said for respecting your guys and giving them a chance to play in the NHL where they most likely belong. Homer could have let Gauthier rot in the AHL for another season but he moved him to a team that was going give him NHL minutes.

The main point of this is cap space, plain and simple. You shed the salary of Jones and it gives you some room to operate during the season and at the trade deadline. Obviously the talent in the trade is slanted favorably towards LA, but the cap space it provides could be invaluable.

Say the Kings add Harrold, a guy who can play the point on the power play and also play forward. He makes a shade over $500k so you'd be adding something like $1.3mm while shedding a little over $3.5mm for this coming season.

I love physical hockey as do most of you so I understand not wanting to give up Carcillo. The fact remains that he is on his 3rd NHL club already in a very short career. He is still a huge liability and may never put it together but it's a risk Lombardi would most likely take.

Ivanans is cheap and can go with anybody, one of the few guys who has fought the Laraques and Boogards multiple times. Westgarth makes him somewhat expendable, but I don't think Lombardi is in a huge rush to move him.

I'm not going to lie...it's a salary dump but it isn't the worst thing I've ever seen. You are correct that Jones could be shuffled to the AHL but the question is would Homer do that to someone again? You guys would know that answer better than I but it shouldn't be underestimated.

BigKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-04-2009, 09:33 PM
  #108
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,675
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
You can stuff Jones in the minors but there is something to be said for respecting your guys and giving them a chance to play in the NHL where they most likely belong. Homer could have let Gauthier rot in the AHL for another season but he moved him to a team that was going give him NHL minutes.

The main point of this is cap space, plain and simple. You shed the salary of Jones and it gives you some room to operate during the season and at the trade deadline. Obviously the talent in the trade is slanted favorably towards LA, but the cap space it provides could be invaluable.

Say the Kings add Harrold, a guy who can play the point on the power play and also play forward. He makes a shade over $500k so you'd be adding something like $1.3mm while shedding a little over $3.5mm for this coming season.

I love physical hockey as do most of you so I understand not wanting to give up Carcillo. The fact remains that he is on his 3rd NHL club already in a very short career. He is still a huge liability and may never put it together but it's a risk Lombardi would most likely take.

Ivanans is cheap and can go with anybody, one of the few guys who has fought the Laraques and Boogards multiple times. Westgarth makes him somewhat expendable, but I don't think Lombardi is in a huge rush to move him.

I'm not going to lie...it's a salary dump but it isn't the worst thing I've ever seen. You are correct that Jones could be shuffled to the AHL but the question is would Homer do that to someone again? You guys would know that answer better than I but it shouldn't be underestimated.
A) Wouldn't a straight up deal of Raitis Ivanāns for Dan Carcillo be a fair move for both sides... and if nothing else, certainly for the Kings?

B) If Jones could find a regular spot on the Kings, why should the Flyers hand him over for a far inferior player, AND... AND supply a kicker of a player that Lombardi may covet?

... Seems to me that Lombardi is interested in BOTH Jones and Carcillo... and he is gracious enough to take on both players for his 23 man roster and throw a two point player who can fight the Flyers way... to add to their stable of goons. That is mighty charitable of him.

Look, if the Kings want either Jones are Carcillo, let them deal with the Flyers just as any other NHL club would have to do... It Lombardi wants a hand out let him go to Bettman or Obama with hat in and and a sob story about how LA should be bailed out -- Pittsburgh, Buffalo, and Phoenix have learned to walk with their hat in their hand... So can Los Angeles.



Seriously, I think Homer can get more for Jones than Ivanāns, even without a kicker... and I venture to say the about Carcillo. To think that Lombardi can reel in both for a goon and a $500K 7th D-man is, IMO, ridiculous.

Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-04-2009, 10:03 PM
  #109
Shadow Flyer
Why So Serious?
 
Shadow Flyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Country: United States
Posts: 3,714
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
I'm not going to lie...it's a salary dump but it isn't the worst thing I've ever seen. You are correct that Jones could be shuffled to the AHL but the question is would Homer do that to someone again? You guys would know that answer better than I but it shouldn't be underestimated.
Its not ideal, and sticking him in the minors would be a last resort, but we don't have to give up assets to trade Randy Jones.

Let me ask you this, since you're a Kings fan: Do the Kings actually want Jones, or are they looking for a handout to take on his contract?

If they want Jones, then he can most assuredly be had for cheap, and the Flyers won't have to "pay" the Kings to take him. If they're just looking for a handout by taking on his contract, then I don't think there's anything more to talk about.

Shadow Flyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-04-2009, 10:19 PM
  #110
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,675
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
Its not ideal, and sticking him in the minors would be a last resort, but we don't have to give up assets to trade Randy Jones.

Let me ask you this, since you're a Kings fan: Do the Kings actually want Jones, or are they looking for a handout to take on his contract?

If they want Jones, then he can most assuredly be had for cheap, and the Flyers won't have to "pay" the Kings to take him. If they're just looking for a handout by taking on his contract, then I don't think there's anything more to talk about.
According to Eklund source(s), the Kings are interested in Jones... To ask for and expect a kicker for the Cap space, on a team that has plenty to spare, is at most a shot at a steal... at least, some wishful thinking/hoping by fans who think Homer is working from a seat of desperation -- stemming from the committed Cap, the too many D-men being paid top two pair dollars, and the Upshall deal -- I suppose nobody can blame Lombardi for trying and/or the fans for hoping... But, if Homer make another such move, he can expect to have to regain the respect of the Flyers fans; I don't expect that he will.


NOTE: The only thing that would make such a deal more palatable over the Upshall one is the fact that Upshall was a fan favorite... and, at this point, many Flyers fans want to see Jones off the Cap... if for nothing more than to beef up the Forwards.

Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-04-2009, 10:56 PM
  #111
BigKing
Spot Picker
 
BigKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Belmont Shore, CA
Posts: 3,590
vCash: 500
To be honest, I hadn't seen Jones linked to Lombardi but Carcillo has the skillset and demeanor that fits in with what the Kings are trying to build which, for all intents and purposes, is Flyer-style hockey.

I brought up Jones because he seems to be someone you guys would like to be moved for cap relief. My proposal has cap space as the biggest asset the Flyers would be receiving, although not literally as Ivanans checks in at 6'3" 263.

Pronger/Timmonen/Coburn are going to play a ton of minutes, somewhat like how Anaheim rode Neidermayer/Pronger for 25 minutes a night. For a team that is up against the cap without much room to make moves, it's rough to pay a Randy Jones $2.75mm a season. That cap space could prove to be very valuable towards a team that is being built to win while Pronger is still a force.

LA has the cap space, somewhat of a need for another defenseman and supposedly a player they covet in Carcillo. I don't care what Homer paid for Carcillo last season as that does not determine Carcillo's value to the rest of the league. That's a sunk cost that is done and over with. There have been a lot of changes in Flyer land since that deal was made so it's a moot point except for the fact that Upshall was really liked. The makeup of the team has changed to the point where shedding $3mm is more important than Daniel Carcillo: no matter what was used to get him.

Either way, I feel there is a lot of respect from the management of both teams for each other so I wouldn't expect some sort of fleecing. I wouldn't be shocked to see something like:

PHI: Ivanans/Harrold/3rd round pick

LA: Jones/Carcillo

The 3rd helps save some face with the fans for giving up the 2nd rounder, Philly gets a legit heavy for the first time since Brashear and a former captain of the BC Eagles who does everything and anything he is told by his coaches, be it at the forward position or on defense. The main thing is that Philly gets a nice chunk of cap space to make moves down the road.

I mainly use Harrold since he is a natural d-man and you may want one coming back if Jones is moved. There are a few prospects, bottom-6 type guys that may be of interest instead. Seeing that Lombardi has used a 2nd round pick to trade for Brad Richardson as well as use one in this year's draft on a "Carcillo-Type", I could see him using a 2nd rounder when push comes to shove. You could then look at the Upshall trade like so:

PHI Trades: Upshall, Randy Jones, 2nd rd pick

PHI Receives: A higher 2nd round pick, Ivanans, CAP space, possibly Harrold and in a roundabout way Laperriere as Upshall's new contract money goes to him instead.

It's not super sexy but c'mon, were talking about tinkering with the 4th line and bottom pairing of a team with Pronger/Richards/Carter/Timmonen/Hartnell/Coburn/Giroux/Gagne/Briere etc... Basically, you probably can't get better unless you move someone who is overpaid like Jones. Carcillo is expendable with the Laperriere signing as well as already having Asham so if he is needed to sweeten the pot then it may need to be done.

BigKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-04-2009, 11:12 PM
  #112
blah
Registered User
 
blah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,269
vCash: 500
Bring back Zeus.

blah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-04-2009, 11:49 PM
  #113
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,675
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
To be honest, I hadn't seen Jones linked to Lombardi but Carcillo has the skillset and demeanor that fits in with what the Kings are trying to build which, for all intents and purposes, is Flyer-style hockey.

I brought up Jones because he seems to be someone you guys would like to be moved for cap relief. My proposal has cap space as the biggest asset the Flyers would be receiving, although not literally as Ivanans checks in at 6'3" 263.

Pronger/Timmonen/Coburn are going to play a ton of minutes, somewhat like how Anaheim rode Neidermayer/Pronger for 25 minutes a night. For a team that is up against the cap without much room to make moves, it's rough to pay a Randy Jones $2.75mm a season. That cap space could prove to be very valuable towards a team that is being built to win while Pronger is still a force.

LA has the cap space, somewhat of a need for another defenseman and supposedly a player they covet in Carcillo. I don't care what Homer paid for Carcillo last season as that does not determine Carcillo's value to the rest of the league. That's a sunk cost that is done and over with. There have been a lot of changes in Flyer land since that deal was made so it's a moot point except for the fact that Upshall was really liked. The makeup of the team has changed to the point where shedding $3mm is more important than Daniel Carcillo: no matter what was used to get him.

Either way, I feel there is a lot of respect from the management of both teams for each other so I wouldn't expect some sort of fleecing. I wouldn't be shocked to see something like:

PHI: Ivanans/Harrold/3rd round pick

LA: Jones/Carcillo

The 3rd helps save some face with the fans for giving up the 2nd rounder, Philly gets a legit heavy for the first time since Brashear and a former captain of the BC Eagles who does everything and anything he is told by his coaches, be it at the forward position or on defense. The main thing is that Philly gets a nice chunk of cap space to make moves down the road.

I mainly use Harrold since he is a natural d-man and you may want one coming back if Jones is moved. There are a few prospects, bottom-6 type guys that may be of interest instead. Seeing that Lombardi has used a 2nd round pick to trade for Brad Richardson as well as use one in this year's draft on a "Carcillo-Type", I could see him using a 2nd rounder when push comes to shove. You could then look at the Upshall trade like so:

PHI Trades: Upshall, Randy Jones, 2nd rd pick

PHI Receives: A higher 2nd round pick, Ivanans, CAP space, possibly Harrold and in a roundabout way Laperriere as Upshall's new contract money goes to him instead.

It's not super sexy but c'mon, were talking about tinkering with the 4th line and bottom pairing of a team with Pronger/Richards/Carter/Timmonen/Hartnell/Coburn/Giroux/Gagne/Briere etc... Basically, you probably can't get better unless you move someone who is overpaid like Jones. Carcillo is expendable with the Laperriere signing as well as already having Asham so if he is needed to sweeten the pot then it may need to be done.
How can you in all seriousness throw Laperriere in there as if he is a part of the deal? Lappy is signed and under the Cap... to tinker with him is no different than to tinker with any other player on the present roster, both new addition and otherwise.

Do you happen to sell used cars for a living... You have a knack for the innovative sales pitch.


Face it, Ivanans is a stiff... a player whose only punch is in a fight... Jones is a serviceable D-man who in the proper team is easily a top four, on others a solid fifth... Carcillo is an agitator whose has potential punch in scoring as well as fighting. The Flyers are presently under the Cap and not desperate to give away assets to gain Cap space at the present time -- they are allowed to go over until the opening game... last season Upshall was moved at the TDL, and there was a serious Cap problem caused by injuries and in-season replacements -- If no viable return is found for Jones, he can easily be brought to Camp to show his worth, not only to the Flyers, but to the entire NHL... proving that he is 100% or so healthy, and even possibly worth the Cap hit. Then the return asset(s) can appear.

If anything, Homer may even want to move Carle who presents an even larger Cap hit... and for a longer period -- Jone is a pending UFA, after this coming season -- Both players are slotted for the third when Parent proves to be wasted not in the top four... either can be moved, and Carle would be the answer that would also answer next season and beyond.

If you think Homer is dealing from weakness and desperation... you have another think coming. If Lombardi wants Jones and Carcillo -- who doesn't have to be moved, BTW -- he has to make a much, much better offer than you have presented tonight, that is a given.

Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-04-2009, 11:51 PM
  #114
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,675
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blah View Post
Bring back Zeus.
He would definitely fit the bill... but come at too dear a Cap hit for the Flyers blood, IMO.

Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2009, 01:53 AM
  #115
BigKing
Spot Picker
 
BigKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Belmont Shore, CA
Posts: 3,590
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersJunky View Post
How can you in all seriousness throw Laperriere in there as if he is a part of the deal? Lappy is signed and under the Cap... to tinker with him is no different than to tinker with any other player on the present roster, both new addition and otherwise.

Do you happen to sell used cars for a living... You have a knack for the innovative sales pitch.


Face it, Ivanans is a stiff... a player whose only punch is in a fight... Jones is a serviceable D-man who in the proper team is easily a top four, on others a solid fifth... Carcillo is an agitator whose has potential punch in scoring as well as fighting. The Flyers are presently under the Cap and not desperate to give away assets to gain Cap space at the present time -- they are allowed to go over until the opening game... last season Upshall was moved at the TDL, and there was a serious Cap problem caused by injuries and in-season replacements -- If no viable return is found for Jones, he can easily be brought to Camp to show his worth, not only to the Flyers, but to the entire NHL... proving that he is 100% or so healthy, and even possibly worth the Cap hit. Then the return asset(s) can appear.

If anything, Homer may even want to move Carle who presents an even larger Cap hit... and for a longer period -- Jone is a pending UFA, after this coming season -- Both players are slotted for the third when Parent proves to be wasted not in the top four... either can be moved, and Carle would be the answer that would also answer next season and beyond.

If you think Homer is dealing from weakness and desperation... you have another think coming. If Lombardi wants Jones and Carcillo -- who doesn't have to be moved, BTW -- he has to make a much, much better offer than you have presented tonight, that is a given.
Thanks for the clarification.

BigKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2009, 07:21 AM
  #116
Get Carter
Registered User
 
Get Carter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bucks County, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 317
vCash: 500
I don't see Carcillo being moved. Considering what was given up to get him, he seems like someone Holmgren has been targeting and likes him on his team. Just my opinion.

Get Carter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2009, 08:21 AM
  #117
IrishSniper87
Registered User
 
IrishSniper87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Media, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,402
vCash: 500
Handzus for Jones?

I'd do it. He is only signed for 2 years, he would be off the cap by the time we are ready for our Giroux, Carter, Gagne dilemma.

Carle would most certainly have to be moved, unless we plan on never carrying a 21st player.

IrishSniper87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2009, 08:29 AM
  #118
Bob Clarke Fan Club
Registered User
 
Bob Clarke Fan Club's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,120
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Get Carter View Post
I don't see Carcillo being moved. Considering what was given up to get him, he seems like someone Holmgren has been targeting and likes him on his team. Just my opinion.




I share your opinion & I'm hoping Carcillo stays. Affordable, tough and has some skill for a 4th liner. Also think there's a lot more to this guy than what we've already seen. There's no doubt in my mind that the Flyers brass enjoys watching him don the orange.

Bob Clarke Fan Club is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2009, 10:31 AM
  #119
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,675
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Handzus for Jones?

I'd do it. He is only signed for 2 years, he would be off the cap by the time we are ready for our Giroux, Carter, Gagne dilemma.

Carle would most certainly have to be moved, unless we plan on never carrying a 21st player.
Zeus is at $4M per... The way I see it, the Flyers need a 3rd line center who can take face offs and win a good share of them; $4M is a lot for that... and especially on a Cap strapped team. The net diff between Zeus and Jones is $1.25M, pushing the Flyers further in the hole. You mention that Carle would have to go, putting the Flyers approx $2.5M towards the good with Zeus and losing Jones and Carle, less the replacements; let's say $1M to the good after all is said and done -- not taking into account received asset(s) from the Carle move.

This is all well and good, I suppose... But doesn't that put the Flyers in the same boat as now, except at Forward rather than at D?; a player being paid well above his position's worth... and still in Cap Hell. The Flyers would be bringing in another high priced center. I think it better to have a lesser contracted veteran center and another veteran RW with a scoring punch... But, hey, that's just me.

That said, is Lombardi open to moving Zeus?

Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2009, 10:35 AM
  #120
nevermore
Cap space since 2005
 
nevermore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Country: Austria
Posts: 11,899
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blah View Post
Bring back Zeus.
Not for $4M per year.

nevermore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2009, 10:53 AM
  #121
IrishSniper87
Registered User
 
IrishSniper87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Media, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,402
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersJunky View Post
Zeus is at $4M per... The way I see it, the Flyers need a 3rd line center who can take face offs and win a good share of them; $4M is a lot for that... and especially on a Cap strapped team. The net diff between Zeus and Jones is $1.25M, pushing the Flyers further in the hole. You mention that Carle would have to go, putting the Flyers approx $2.5M towards the good with Zeus and losing Jones and Carle, less the replacements; let's say $1M to the good after all is said and done -- not taking into account received asset(s) from the Carle move.

This is all well and good, I suppose... But doesn't that put the Flyers in the same boat as now, except at Forward rather than at D?; a player being paid well above his position's worth... and still in Cap Hell. The Flyers would be bringing in another high priced center. I think it better to have a lesser contracted veteran center and another veteran RW with a scoring punch... But, hey, that's just me.

That said, is Lombardi open to moving Zeus?
Yeah, I realize Zues for Jones won't work, but it's a dream anyway.

I'd move Jones for picks honestly, or try to move a 3rd or 4th and Jones for a 2nd or something. I'd like to see a defensive prospect and Tollefson handle 6th man duties.

IrishSniper87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2009, 11:07 AM
  #122
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,675
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Yeah, I realize Zues for Jones won't work, but it's a dream anyway.

I'd move Jones for picks honestly, or try to move a 3rd or 4th and Jones for a 2nd or something. I'd like to see a defensive prospect and Tollefson handle 6th man duties.
I know what you mean... I totally hated the Zeus for Calder deal. I would have loved keeping him here.

Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2009, 12:18 PM
  #123
mikedifr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 8,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
You can stuff Jones in the minors but there is something to be said for respecting your guys and giving them a chance to play in the NHL where they most likely belong. Homer could have let Gauthier rot in the AHL for another season but he moved him to a team that was going give him NHL minutes.

The main point of this is cap space, plain and simple. You shed the salary of Jones and it gives you some room to operate during the season and at the trade deadline. Obviously the talent in the trade is slanted favorably towards LA, but the cap space it provides could be invaluable.

Say the Kings add Harrold, a guy who can play the point on the power play and also play forward. He makes a shade over $500k so you'd be adding something like $1.3mm while shedding a little over $3.5mm for this coming season.

I love physical hockey as do most of you so I understand not wanting to give up Carcillo. The fact remains that he is on his 3rd NHL club already in a very short career. He is still a huge liability and may never put it together but it's a risk Lombardi would most likely take.

Ivanans is cheap and can go with anybody, one of the few guys who has fought the Laraques and Boogards multiple times. Westgarth makes him somewhat expendable, but I don't think Lombardi is in a huge rush to move him.

I'm not going to lie...it's a salary dump but it isn't the worst thing I've ever seen. You are correct that Jones could be shuffled to the AHL but the question is would Homer do that to someone again? You guys would know that answer better than I but it shouldn't be underestimated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersJunky View Post
A) Wouldn't a straight up deal of Raitis Ivanāns for Dan Carcillo be a fair move for both sides... and if nothing else, certainly for the Kings?

B) If Jones could find a regular spot on the Kings, why should the Flyers hand him over for a far inferior player, AND... AND supply a kicker of a player that Lombardi may covet?

... Seems to me that Lombardi is interested in BOTH Jones and Carcillo... and he is gracious enough to take on both players for his 23 man roster and throw a two point player who can fight the Flyers way... to add to their stable of goons. That is mighty charitable of him.

Look, if the Kings want either Jones are Carcillo, let them deal with the Flyers just as any other NHL club would have to do... It Lombardi wants a hand out let him go to Bettman or Obama with hat in and and a sob story about how LA should be bailed out -- Pittsburgh, Buffalo, and Phoenix have learned to walk with their hat in their hand... So can Los Angeles.



Seriously, I think Homer can get more for Jones than Ivanāns, even without a kicker... and I venture to say the about Carcillo. To think that Lombardi can reel in both for a goon and a $500K 7th D-man is, IMO, ridiculous.
I am not quite clear on whether this was a post a fan made or something Eklund said about the rumors of LA wanting Jones and with Carcillo for Ivanans

With that said, although I rather move Carle to be honest, I would be fine with a deal like this....Provided that they use some of the money to get a legit 4th line center who can take faceoffs (Assuming Powe plays in the top 9 somewhere)

Dont care for an enforcer but whatever...

Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Handzus for Jones?

I'd do it. He is only signed for 2 years, he would be off the cap by the time we are ready for our Giroux, Carter, Gagne dilemma.

Carle would most certainly have to be moved, unless we plan on never carrying a 21st player.
I would do Carle for Handuz in a heartbeat!!!

mikedifr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2009, 12:36 PM
  #124
GoneFullHextall
bring on the draft
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 35,387
vCash: 50
I like Handzus but not at 4 million for 2 more seasons.
Sign Malhotra or Moore for much less.
it doesnt make any sense to trade Carle and/or Jones for Handzus when this team is going to need cap space in the future.

GoneFullHextall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2009, 12:44 PM
  #125
mikedifr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 8,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireStevensDotCom View Post
I like Handzus but not at 4 million for 2 more seasons.
Sign Malhotra or Moore for much less.
it doesnt make any sense to trade Carle and/or Jones for Handzus when this team is going to need cap space in the future.
I think many of us would love Malhotra....Maybe we have a deal with him and we need to clear the cap space???? Doubtful...but I can dream

mikedifr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:55 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.